I thought for a moment that Brwned had put a curse on them with his top goalscorers thread. Only RvP and Cavani out of those mentioned there scored this weekend.
Cristiano Ronaldo
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I thought for a moment that Brwned had put a curse on them with his top goalscorers thread. Only RvP and Cavani out of those mentioned there scored this weekend.
Now let me see, "among the best in the world" and "over-hyped ... due to a few high profile performances". Is this the same Zidane who was WPOTY three times plus 2nd once and 3rd twice? (Messi is currently 3, 2, 0 and Ronaldo 1, 2, 1 in terms of 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the voting.) The Zidane who's tied with Messi and fat Ronaldo for most WPOTY titles? The one who's been voted in the top three more than any player in the history of the award? Is that really the Zidane you're talking about? Because, if it is, those have to be some of the dumbest comments I've ever seen.
I can understand reddevilcanada in terms of the sort of god-like status Zidane seems to have amongst many, as well as the point regarding consistency. I've heard people call him best/greatest player ever and every other superlative under the sun but, for me, Ronaldinho was a better player and Messi also is currently a better player (I feel like I've seen enough of Fat Ronaldo by now to say he was better too). Different players and all that, but I think you can come to some sort of intuitive conclusion here as to who ranks where based on contribution and consistency despite that.
Seems a stretch to say Cristiano Ronaldo was easily better though! I mean, we're talking about Zinedine Zidane. Even though it's not the sole determinant of a player's ability, his Euro 2000 probably marked the best tournament I've seen from any player on the international scene. Iniesta rightly took the plaudits for Spains victory this year, but I remember some of Zidane's performances being a clear level above those of Iniesta's during this summer's Euros. If we're talking about flat out consistency in terms of goalscoring, Ronaldo wins every time. Better player is a more difficult decision, though.
I'm edging towards thinking that Zidane had great ability but not great consistency, whilst Ronaldo has great consistency but not quite great ability (great here meaning more than just 'a lot of' - legendary perhaps or something like that). I suppose that would mean I thought the more talented of the two is Zidane, but whether that equates to him being 'better' than Ronaldo in light of the role that consistency of performance in their respective positions must play here is another thing altogether.
Seems a stretch to say Cristiano Ronaldo was easily better though! I mean, we're talking about Zinedine Zidane. Even though it's not the sole determinant of a player's ability, his Euro 2000 probably marked the best tournament I've seen from any player on the international scene. Iniesta rightly took the plaudits for Spains victory this year, but I remember some of Zidane's performances being a clear level above those of Iniesta's during this summer's Euros. If we're talking about flat out consistency in terms of goalscoring, Ronaldo wins every time. Better player is a more difficult decision, though.
I'm edging towards thinking that Zidane had great ability but not great consistency, whilst Ronaldo has great consistency but not quite great ability (great here meaning more than just 'a lot of' - legendary perhaps or something like that). I suppose that would mean I thought the more talented of the two is Zidane, but whether that equates to him being 'better' than Ronaldo in light of the role that consistency of performance in their respective positions must play here is another thing altogether.
The thing about Zidane that everybody loved, was the elegance he played with. Every single thing he did looked just natural for him, like he wasn't forcing anything. There are very little players like that, and for me at least, that is one of the qualities that a player needs to have to be classed amongst the very best of all time. Zidane had it, Messi, Ronaldo (Brazilian), Ronaldinho, Iniesta, all of these player have/had this quality. Cristiano Ronaldo, you can't really say that for him. For me he's the second best player in the world right now, pretty close with a few others though. A long way behind Messi, and he just doesn't have the big impact in big games as Zidane had.
Zidane basically never failed to step up his game in the big matches, or finals. Ronaldo is much more consistent, but his record in the big games is just decent, you can't really say that he constantly sticks out in them. Zizou was more naturally talented as well, while Ronaldo is talented but it was because of his incredible determination that he got to this position.
Zidane basically never failed to step up his game in the big matches, or finals. Ronaldo is much more consistent, but his record in the big games is just decent, you can't really say that he constantly sticks out in them. Zizou was more naturally talented as well, while Ronaldo is talented but it was because of his incredible determination that he got to this position.
And people ask why Cristiano Ronaldo left United and looked for challenges to prove himself... We are in 2012, but he's still criminally underrated. Ronaldo is as good as Messi, and there is no way he's "a long way" behind him. And words fail me for the "pretty close with a few other players" part. You make it sound like he is nothing special in the grand scheme of football history when in fact he's a case of once in a generation.
Ronaldo isn't as good as Messi.That's just blind fanboism talking for you Lailiani.He's proved for several seasons in a row, you would think people like you would have gotten it by now.
Several seasons in a row?
Let's see, in 09/10, Messi was better in Ronaldo's first season in Madrid, no argument.
In 10/11, Ronaldo scored more whilst Messi won the league, so I was told Messi was better.
In 11/12, Messi scored more whilst Ronaldo won the league, yet somehow, you lot still think Messi was better.
Anyone care to explain that logic?
And saying Ronaldo is "a long way behind" Messi is not full of Messi fanboism?
It is but you don't have to respond to fanboism by another equal statement
Messi easier on the eye but Ronaldo is just as productive in a poorer team. Think it's hard to call, Ronaldo has proved it in two different leagues but no denying both are special.
The underrating of Zidane is doing my head in... don't get me wrong, Messi and Ronaldo are fantastic and have it in them to surpass him, Messi is very close to doing so or might already have done in some peoples eyes due to him winning multiple CL's.
But Zidane is fecking Zidane... are people forgetting a) what he accomplished as an individual and b) how he owned great teams past his peak and c) his style of play? he was basically iniesta with c.ronaldo tricks and a two-footed passing and shooting maestro, lets not forget his heading ability and his temprement under the greatest pressure was supreme.
Yes C. Ronaldo and Messi are more equipped to score goals week in week out, but when we're talking about greatness, i'm sorry but consistency alone does not cut it... consistency on the greatest of stages does however and there are few better in the history of football than Zizou in this regard.
But Zidane is fecking Zidane... are people forgetting a) what he accomplished as an individual and b) how he owned great teams past his peak and c) his style of play? he was basically iniesta with c.ronaldo tricks and a two-footed passing and shooting maestro, lets not forget his heading ability and his temprement under the greatest pressure was supreme.
Yes C. Ronaldo and Messi are more equipped to score goals week in week out, but when we're talking about greatness, i'm sorry but consistency alone does not cut it... consistency on the greatest of stages does however and there are few better in the history of football than Zizou in this regard.
I agree with almost everything you say, just not the part about his "heading ability". The fact he scored two headers in the final of the '98 WC tends to make people think he was a really good player with his head, but that wasn't the case. In fact, I wonder if they weren't the first goals he'd scored with his head at that time. But the fact that, during the most prominent football game there is, he managed to score twice using a trait that wasn't his best skill actually makes it even more impressive in my opinion.
Oh look, it's Cal? and his alter-ego Lailliani spouting their usual bollocks.
"Poorer team"
what are you talking about ? Have you not watched all the recent classicos ? Have you not seen Real set a record in number of goals scored in a league last season ? Real Madrid has improved a lot under Mourinho, there is no inferiority complex towards Barca.They are just as good as them
Real have an outrageous squad to be fair, just not quite the first XI that Barca do.
Ronaldo is unfortunate he is in the same era as Messi. Otherwise he would be the undisputed best player in the world.
But Messi is the greatest I have ever seen and could well go down as the greatest of all time.
They are on different levels.
Which era, so far, could he have been the undisputed best player in the world, Randall?
Ronaldo was ours and he gave us joyous 5 years but as you said, he is a notch below Messi.
Ronaldo was ours and he gave us joyous 5 years but as you said, he is a notch below Messi.
This is exactly what I was alluding to with my question about Zidane.
Ronaldo isnt the best player in the world now because of Messi. If he had been up against Zidane, would he have been then? Or Fat Ronaldo? Ronaldinho? Bramble?
How about going back further to the likes of Cruyff, Platini or Beckenbauer?
Ronaldo isnt the best player in the world now because of Messi. If he had been up against Zidane, would he have been then? Or Fat Ronaldo? Ronaldinho? Bramble?
How about going back further to the likes of Cruyff, Platini or Beckenbauer?
I'm not looking to start another Messi argument, so I'll ignore that.
Cristiano Ronaldo is clearly better than Luiz Ronaldo was, one simple look at their respective goalscoring record down the years and it's like night and day.
Zidane is a different case as it's difficult to compare 2 players in such different positions, was Schmeichel better or Maldini?
When you are talking about "The" best player in the world, does the position matter?
Personally I think Cristiano is better than Zidane was, but it's difficult to present any argument due to their different positions.
Context is everything. The relative dominance of Real Madrid in La Liga is far beyond what L. Ronaldo had to work with.
Consider the points-per-game ratio of the teams Ronaldo played with:
1994/95 - 1.97pts per game (PSV)
1995/96 - 2.26
1996/97 - 2.14 (Barcelona)
1997/98 - 2.03 (Inter)
1998/99 - 1.35
1999/2000 - 1.71
2000/01 - 1.50
2001/02 - 2.03
2002/03 - 2.05 (Real)
2003/04 - 1.84
2004/05 - 2.11
Then compare with the teams Cristiano has played with:
2006/07 - 2.34 (Manchester Utd)
2007/08 - 2.29
2008/09 - 2.37
2009/10 - 2.53 (Real)
2010/11 - 2.42
2011/12 - 2.63
That's the difference that is night and day.
I believe Cristiano is better than Luis Ronaldo at the same age. However L. Ronaldo had a hell of a lot of injuries and was not the same player as he was when young, at that time I don't think ive seen a better player. Without the injuries I suspect (and its pretty much with no scientific basis) that Luis Ronaldo would be named up there with Pele and Maradona.
Even so both were and are amazing no doubt
Even so both were and are amazing no doubt
He might have escaped so many injuries had he taken better care of himself. The two Ronaldo's are miles apart regarding their training regime. Fat Ronaldo was a helluva gifted player. Can't think of a player off the top of my head who was genuinely a better finisher.
How is he as good as messi? Messi scored 73 goals and had more assists then Ronaldo as well last season, even though Ronaldo won the league. Iniesta and Xavi are both up there with Ronaldo, how on earth could you suggest that those 3 are "nothing special"? Every decade there's a few players who will go down in history as some of the best ever, right now it's messi, Ronaldo, iniesta and Xavi, before it was Ronaldo, zidane and a few others, and so on. Having two extraordinary players at once is nothing new. Saying Ronaldo is as good as messi is just wrong now because messi has out performed Ronaldo every season since 08/09. More goals in every year (apart from the one they finished level) and probably more then twice as many assists. Not to mention the bigger impact messi has on barcas overall game.
The way I see it, is that if Ronaldo was around before messi, then he would be up there with Brazilian Ronaldo and zidane as the very best in the world, but since messi is here he has to settle for second best, along with the likes of iniesta and Xavi.
Ruuuuuuud!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2228180/Cristiano-Ronaldo-vote-win-Ballon-dOr.html
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spai...i-would-vote-for-myself-to-win-the-ballon-dor
I thought he would still like to play for Manchester United.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2228180/Cristiano-Ronaldo-vote-win-Ballon-dOr.html
http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spai...i-would-vote-for-myself-to-win-the-ballon-dor
I thought he would still like to play for Manchester United.
Bet he said City and someone has cocked up the quote
I see you omitted United's season's before 2006/07 where United didn't do as well.... Also I don't see Sporting Lisbon's points per game ratio up there.... I bet they're not that high as the more recent seasons...
Can you get the same stats for Messi and Barca's dominance in the last few years. I'm sure there would be a great difference between L. Ronaldo's Teams and this Barca side Messi has been lucky to be a part of.
Following your logic, Messi's achievements should be discredited partially since he has been lucky to be playing in the possibly best side in the history of football whereas L. Ronaldo had to do it with less formidable teams. And the next argument would be that L. Ronaldo's achievement must be better than Messi because of this context. This of course is very simplistic reasoning at best and, for the same reason, you can't discredit C. Ronaldo's achievements.
For what it's worth, I think L. Ronaldo would've gone on to be in the same bracket as Maradona & Pele had he not suffered those horrific knee injuries and had to deal with the subsequent condition which prevented him from being in shape. That didn't happen though. In my opinion, if he had never gotten any injuries or serious conditions, he'd have been ahead of both messi & c. ronaldo - let's not forget he's already got world cups under his belt and is the all time top scorer in world cups despite what he went through.
Seems likely - can't see how we get included with those two sugar daddy clubs.
I thought that too, that's why I searched for more sources, and posted two. Can't find original fro france football though, they don't seem to have their site in english version.
This Messi vs Ronaldo discussion is almost getting old, but it is still fun.
For me, I would pick Ronaldo every day of the week to play for United or in the PL at all, and that tells me (in my deluded head) that he is a more versatile player in that he can play well in all types of leagues, the physical and the technical because he has ample attributes of both.
Messi is a magician with the ball, but let's face it, not the fittest player on the planet - ever seen him without a shirt? Not Ronaldo-esque.
Then we will have the Messi fanboys saying that "There we go again, Ronaldo fanboys talking about physique, but football is so much more than that" And they are right, it is. But as I said, Ronaldo has the full nine yards, just a notch below Messi in terms of technique and agility. Would Ibra be as good if he wasn't big, would Zidane? Would fat-Ronaldo be as good without his insane acceleration, would Henry or Giggs?
Messi may be the better player playing for Barca, but to me, Ronaldo is the better player to play anywhere else - but that is just my opinion.
For me, I would pick Ronaldo every day of the week to play for United or in the PL at all, and that tells me (in my deluded head) that he is a more versatile player in that he can play well in all types of leagues, the physical and the technical because he has ample attributes of both.
Messi is a magician with the ball, but let's face it, not the fittest player on the planet - ever seen him without a shirt? Not Ronaldo-esque.
Then we will have the Messi fanboys saying that "There we go again, Ronaldo fanboys talking about physique, but football is so much more than that" And they are right, it is. But as I said, Ronaldo has the full nine yards, just a notch below Messi in terms of technique and agility. Would Ibra be as good if he wasn't big, would Zidane? Would fat-Ronaldo be as good without his insane acceleration, would Henry or Giggs?
Messi may be the better player playing for Barca, but to me, Ronaldo is the better player to play anywhere else - but that is just my opinion.
Plus, he has already played for us so he don't need to get hyped up and dream about it like hes saying. It's clear the club he said was City.
I respect you opinion, but bold thing
Oh come on, it's not that funny. It's like you have this super athlete in Ronaldo, then you have Messi who isn't even close - and you cannot deny that. Just google him and see - there was this one picture, but everyone would just focus on the ass of his girlfriend, so I opted not to post it.
He isn't unfit, but he's not in the bracket of Ronaldo or Nani (who is very fit), but his game doesn't require him to be, atm at least.
Only name that popped up but not one that was definitely better. My memory of Solskjær might be a little skewed because I rate him very highly as well.
I've heard it on the Portuguese news now and am sure they said City, not United. He also explained that he doesn't play for the money.
I couldn't be very attentive as I was with some mates but I think I liked a lot of the things he said in that interview. Not all, but most.
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