In the post above I really was talking about this season, not about the whole year. I already stated that Ribery imo deserves the Ballon d'Or, explained at length why for example his CL final performance is worth way more than goal and assist stats could ever show and that Ronaldo's bad performances for Portugal should count against him. I actually haven't seen a lot Real games this season, so maybe my impression of Ronaldo trying to be more involved is wrong. The only big games so far were probably the UEFA supercup for Bayern and the classico for Barca and Real. Everything else was just business as usual early in the season, imo, so there's not much to go by with individual important performances and overall Ronaldo's again increased goal record has to count for something.
Cristiano Ronaldo
- Thread starter ciderman9000000
- Start date
- Status
I've outlined (also in some detail concerning the "big" games) why I don't agree with that in my reply to Mel_F in the previous post, I'd be very interested in your view on those thoughts!
Jesus christ thats depressing to watch now, I remember he was the king pin of our 06/07 season making runs like that, getting you up off your seat nearly everytime he got the ball. now we have Antonio Valencia who will dick around that part of the pitch for 15-20 seconds and put in a useless cross
Another goal and an assist basically just another game he didnt had any influence in.
Good post Skorenzy, you get at the point i've been trying to make far more eloquently than I have been able to. I agree with the crux of what you are trying to get at. Just scoring loads of goals in La liga and for Real and Barca is not hard for these two. What are their standout performances of the last 12 months. Then furthermore what are their standout big game performances of the last 12 months. Ribery has been more consistent, he is the best player on the best team in Europe. It would be great to see him win it.
The signing of Bale looks like it will only help Ronaldo, he is a Ronaldo-lite and he is a player who opponents have to pay attention to and that gives Ronaldo more space to wreak havoc. For me the very best will always be judged by their big games rather than their games against run of the mill opponents. It was a good performance by Ronaldo last night, he needs to be a constant thorn in the opposition's side, at all times. In big games he scores with regularity but his performances have lacked in a Madrid shirt. Looking forward that is the thing he needs to improve upon.
The signing of Bale looks like it will only help Ronaldo, he is a Ronaldo-lite and he is a player who opponents have to pay attention to and that gives Ronaldo more space to wreak havoc. For me the very best will always be judged by their big games rather than their games against run of the mill opponents. It was a good performance by Ronaldo last night, he needs to be a constant thorn in the opposition's side, at all times. In big games he scores with regularity but his performances have lacked in a Madrid shirt. Looking forward that is the thing he needs to improve upon.
I read the whole post after answering to the first part. It's a bit difficult to judge him on statistics alone but I agree what you outlined looks like there's not much difference to before. I at least have the impression that whenever Bale is playing, his role is slightly different to before, so maybe that's what's influencing my opinion? Hardly a big samplesize though. Maybe I am really wrong, let's wait a few more weeks. I'll try to catch a few Real games in the league. It's annoying that Real is playing their CL games on the same day Bayern is, so I don't catch their games. I usually find them fascinating even when they're playing shit.
I completely agree with that part of your post. I often tried to explain that both Ronaldo's and Messi's influence in winning important games declined when they started an individual race for goal records after the 10/11 season, when both Real and Barca looked comfortably the two best teams in Europe. Since then both teams declined in comparison to other European top teams, especially of course to Bayern and Dortmund, and imo individual performances should still be measured on the influence on your team peaking and not measured as you wrote on individual stats that are now substitutes for great performances.
I hope I'm not contradicting myself too much in my posts, I'm honestly not sure how to judge Ronaldo's and Messi's ridiculous numbers anymore and it has nothing to do with me trying to hide my Bayern bias
. It all really doesn't make any sense, because they are both playing in teams full of quality players and it's mind-boggling that both teams are struggling to find a more balanced way of playing in defense and attack. In my opinion it is possible that both players actually hurt their teams with their superhuman scoring in comparison to their more human scoring before as much as it's helping. But what does that mean when we compare individual performances? After all they're still dominating a league that imo isn't full of average teams as many suggest. There's still a lot of quality in the league. It's all really hurting my brain if I think too much about it.You think Kaka and Gerrard are better big game players than Ronaldo FFS.
Your opinion on anything Ronaldo related its meaningless and lacks credibility, i dont even know why you spend so much time talking about someone you dislike, that to me would be a massive waste of time.
He really deserves the Ballon d'Or this year, people still talking about him not being a big game player are liars. Wonderful player, and I'm proud we made him the player he is today : a dedicated model professional with a perfect attitude on and off the pitch, and more importantly a joy to watch.
Viva Ronaldo.
Viva Ronaldo.
go away.
I personally think you are both spouting bollocks, but hey, it's a matter of opinion, and I'm not even trying to be eloquent about it. I don't really think I agreed with a single thing in that long post above. Why should attackers and wingers have to be pivotal to the play of a team? Rooney tries to do that too much for United, imo, and sometimes the team suffers for it.
He scores with regularity, but his performances have lacked in a Madrid shirt - that's just rubbish. You may watch more Madrid games than I do, but that's just sad. You clearly have it in for him for some reason, but it's starting to get real silly. How many players have scored more in big games than Ronaldo has? He has an amazing big game record. The problem is that the rest of the team isn't always pulling their weight - but you want him to drop deep and be a playmaker, thus eliminating him as a goalscoring threat. That is brilliant.
Feel free to disagree, but at least offer some sort of argument to back up your statements...
His performances lacking in a Real Madrid shirt. FFS this is insane. 
Ribery deserves the Golden Ball for his consistent performances for club since January (not sure how he has done for France, aren't they in the playoffs??). If standards were applied evenly across the board in recent years, Ronaldo would have more than one award to his name, like in the year they stupidly took "calendar year goals" into account just to give the award to Messi. But Ribery deserves it this time.
You should have never been allowed out of the noob forum, its quite clearly that you dont have a clue about what you're talking about.
I'm not going to rewrite the 259 pages of this topic, Ronaldo has been a phenomenal player for Madrid when Barcelona were certainly one of the best squads to play the game during his spell in Spain. He has been even more amazing in 2013 if we're talking about personal performances, as a matter of fact, he deserves the ballon d'OR. Taking away his amazing performances for his club and saying that they lacked is just wrong.
When the ball isn't getting to you and your the best player on the team do you continue to just stand around and wait? He is to good for that. I saw to much of that against Dortmund and against United in all honesty. I judge the best against the best. A hattrick against Sevilla is great but Zidane isn't a legend for goals against Torino or Socedidad it is the BIG games that make your legacy and Ronaldo has fallen short imo.
Go away.
Well you can't dominate games like Zidane and score and win games on his own like Ronaldo. There isn't such player exist in this world, ever. You can't have it both in one player.
I'm not even that big a Ronaldo fan but he's quite clearly the 2nd best player in the world. If Messi does not win it then Ronaldo should.
He's been great for France as well and to be fair they were in a group with Spain so I don't see how anyone could expect them to finish 1st, unlike Cristiano with Portugal (he can still save it if they beat Sweden, which will definitely be a pivotal point for him as far as all-time greatness standing is concerned).
I agree that Messi shouldn't have won the BdO in 2012 (Cristiano, Iniesta and Pirlo were all better candidates IMO). This calendar year Ribéry has impressed me more than Messi and Cristiano (in that order).
I'm no fanboi, but he's an amazing footballer. Every single criticism that could conceivably be levelled at him he's blown out of the water. He scores every type of goal, against every standard of team and he consistently affects the biggest games. He's one of a very small group of players (think Messi, Zidane, Maldini etc.) that's more-or-less completely beyond reproach. I'm not sure he could do any more to help Madrid be successful.
Piss off noob you dont know shit about football.
I think he deserves the Ballon D'or this year, it'd be a shame if Ribery won it ahead of him because he simply hasn't been as good. Not winning trophies has never stopped Messi winning it, it shouldn't stop Ronaldo either.
He doesn't have to do both all the time. But when his team is struggling to create he should look to take on more of the burden. He has a tendency to wait around for things to happen. In the bigger games it becomes harder to create, therefore less chances arise and his tendency to wait around becomes more obvious. I saw it against us and against Dortmund. The tie in between he was great against Galatsaaray
.Some games he is up for it and I know he has it in his locker that is the only reason I bring it up.
I was OTT saying Gerrard and Kaka were better bigger game players but their big game performances over the last decade are more memorable for me than Ronaldo's. In all honesty Gerrard's boils down to the 2005 final and his goals against West Ham and Olympiakos. Kaka Ballon d'or season was immense and 05-07.
But it's not only Barca he failed to leave behind. Real went out in the CL against Lyon, Barca, Bayern and Dortmund while Barca during the same time went out against Inter, Chelsea and Bayern. I don't think Barca were that dominant in all competitions that there wasn't enough room for Ronaldo to stamp his mark on with dominant performances against big teams in Europe. I can't think of a single game in which Real went out despite Ronaldo playing truely great?
I really don't buy into this Barcelona prevented him from bringing more success to Real. In 4 seasons they met once in the CL and Real still didn't make a final.
Messi has won a trophy in every year he won the Ballon d'Or. When was the last time a player won the Ballon d'Or without really winning anything?
Di Stéfano, Pelé, Cruyff, Maradona, etc... Messi (08-11) and even Cristiano himself between 06-08. Nowadays he's neither; the vast majority of his goals are assisted, 1st time finishes (many of them brilliant but nothing a lot of other top forwards cannot do)... if that pertains to your definition of "on his own" than it's a very narrow definition, one that would fit any goal scorer in fact.
He doesn't even have to "dominate", but from an all-time perspective he's just not involved enough in build-up or other aspects besides goalscoring, but that seems to be the prevailing trend in football nowadays anyway (the same goes for Messi, to a lesser extent, for the past two years).
badly worded, more so meant the world cup year with the whole Xavi/Iniesta thing. They also only won the Copa Del Rey last year.
Look at this clown he slates Ronaldo for scoring goals against Sevilla and Galatasaray cause they arent big teams but then he mentions Gerrard's goal against Olimpiakos and West HamHe doesn't have to do both all the time. But when his team is struggling to create he should look to take on more of the burden. He has a tendency to wait around for things to happen. In the bigger games it becomes harder to create, therefore less chances arise and his tendency to wait around becomes more obvious. I saw it against us and against Dortmund. The tie in between he was great against Galatsaaray
Some games he is up for it and I know he has it in his locker that is the only reason I bring it up.
I was OTT saying Gerrard and Kaka were better bigger game players but their big game performances over the last decade are more memorable for me than Ronaldo's. In all honesty Gerrard's boils down to the 2005 final and his goals against West Ham and Olympiakos. Kaka Ballon d'or season was immense and 05-07.
Kaka ballon d'or season wasnt better than Ronaldo's season that year he won it cause of his two performances against United and Milan winning the CL. Can you name me other games other than those two games against United where Kaka had a great performance? since they were so memorable you should be able to name them right? go ahead then noob name them...BTW when Kaka was at the same team as Ronaldo we saw who was clearly the better player and that to me is not even debatable.
It was more because of Real's shortcomings and the fact that it's a circus than Cristiano Ronaldo.
Yeah, but Ronaldo even failed to win the Copa with a shit performance in the final against Atletico. He really won feck all, when was the last time a Ballon d'Or winner really won nothing?
Kaka's ballon d'or was completely undeserved. Cristiano had a better season overall but the best player in Europe that season was francesco Totti
Isn't that the point I'm trying to make here? Trophies shouldn't get in the way of it and all that?
He scores consistently against every level of opposition in practically every game Real Madrid play. What more should he be doing?
The more he makes the Champions league and la liga his bitch, the more I'm correct. He will be the 2nd greatest player of all time behind Messi.
Ronaldo only won the CDR in 97, I guess. Can't think of one without even a domestic cup in recent time.
The season Messi won it he had set a new record for goals scored in a calendar year, but I felt Ronaldo should have won it that year too. He won La Liga and was Real's best player. I think if Real had reached the Champion's League final he would have. Ribery has been amazing this season and last, he does not score like Ronaldo and Messi but he is a proper winger, Bayern's best player. He contributes more defensively than Ronaldo and Messi and has won while scoring and creating goals. It would be great for Ribery to win and shake it up. They are better players, he had a better season.
Messi was at his best when Xavi and Iniesta were at their peak and Puyol was still a fixture in the team. Real won when they got almost 60 goals between Benzema and Higuain and Alonso and Ramos were playing great football. Great teams are made up of more than one great player. Lahm et al. should not hold Ribery back.
Ribery gets the same treatment Zlatan used to. English fans haven't seen him have a truly great game against them so they underrate him. He is a quality player. His season deserves a Ballon d'or. Ronaldo won nothing this year. I tuned in one Saturday and watched Bayern vs Monchengladbach, Ribery carried Bayern on his back to a great 4-3 win. Great game, great player. I would put that performance up against any Ronaldo and Messi have had this calendar year.
Messi was at his best when Xavi and Iniesta were at their peak and Puyol was still a fixture in the team. Real won when they got almost 60 goals between Benzema and Higuain and Alonso and Ramos were playing great football. Great teams are made up of more than one great player. Lahm et al. should not hold Ribery back.
Ribery gets the same treatment Zlatan used to. English fans haven't seen him have a truly great game against them so they underrate him. He is a quality player. His season deserves a Ballon d'or. Ronaldo won nothing this year. I tuned in one Saturday and watched Bayern vs Monchengladbach, Ribery carried Bayern on his back to a great 4-3 win. Great game, great player. I would put that performance up against any Ronaldo and Messi have had this calendar year.
Its a team game not a Ronaldo vs (insert team name) affair. Blaming a guy that regularly nets 50 goals a season instead of blaming Real's poor defense oo Real's unbalanced team for the team failures is quite ridiculous to say the least.
Sounds like a cheap excuse to me. Bayern certainly was as big a circus in the last 3 years, firing managers, public fights between manager and players and between manager and president, Ribery charged with the prosititution thing, Hoeness and his tax charge, Robben getting sent off for choking Müller on the pitch, Ribery punching Robben at half time
were just some of the highlights.- Status