Messi needs to make the Copa final imo, otherwise its probably going to another player i think.
Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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Messi needs to make the Copa final imo, otherwise its probably going to another player i think.
It has to be Lewa this season. BY FAR the best player this year and I have no shame in admitting that.
If the question is who has the better trophy cabinet, then Ronaldos euros would be the tie breaker, but since we are talking about who the better player is, its really irrelevant. At the end of the day football is a teamsport.
Imagine if Eder played for Argentina and scored that goal in the worldcup final, would that mean Messi is a better footballer? Would that make Ronaldo any worse if he didnt win the euros in 2016? The answer is no.
The funny thing is, had Messi won the worldcup in 2014, it would be Messifans using that argument while you would defend Ronaldo and call it a rubbish argument, and you would be right.
Went out in the group stages in the Euros, so it wont happen.
Now, i know its not his fault, but international tournament >>>> everything else when it comes to Ballon Dor, so he is done.
Great Euro from Ronaldo. Portugal was unlucky today, they are a better team than Belgium.
So far Lewandowski still leading it, with 3 goals in Euro and by far most goals in club season. Messi only has 1 in Copa, but Argentina is still in so anything could happen.
Messi It 's not only his goals, you should know better by now. He is not a goalscorer though he scores as if he was one.
Truth is, apart from lack of goals, he was quite average in his last group game too, he was good in his first 2 games though. But just not enough to win it yet. We'll have to see how he does in knockout stages to be fair.
Since when it's all about goals and stats only?
Oh, i remember, since 2013. Yeap, that year was when it all started.
Oh, i remember, since 2013. Yeap, that year was when it all started.
Without resorting to nonsensical arguments. The fact of the matter is that interms of goalscoring both Ronaldo and Messi are amongst the very best.
But, if you look at the quality of goals and quality of all round play outside the goals there is no doubting that Messi is the superior footballer. You'd have to biased to state otherwise.
Having said that, I respect Ronaldo a lot for what he has achieved in what can be termed as the 'Messi era'.
Success whether domestic or international depends more on the team. Neither are goalkeepers or defenders and neither can control conversion of chances by teammates. And in cup competitions luck plays a big part. As examples:
1.Ramos does not equalise vs Atletico twice, Ronaldo has 2 less champion league titles and ballondo'rs.
2.Higuain scores vs Germany, Messi has a world Cup and 1 more ballondo'r.
3.Portugals success in 2016 was much more about the team, the luck of the draw and luck within games. Messi, individually had a much better copa America but lost in a penalty shootout in the final.
4.Ronaldo played his part in this year's Euros but Portugal still went out early.
Conclusion: Messi is the better player unquestionably but Ronaldo deserves respect for his achievements.
But, if you look at the quality of goals and quality of all round play outside the goals there is no doubting that Messi is the superior footballer. You'd have to biased to state otherwise.
Having said that, I respect Ronaldo a lot for what he has achieved in what can be termed as the 'Messi era'.
Success whether domestic or international depends more on the team. Neither are goalkeepers or defenders and neither can control conversion of chances by teammates. And in cup competitions luck plays a big part. As examples:
1.Ramos does not equalise vs Atletico twice, Ronaldo has 2 less champion league titles and ballondo'rs.
2.Higuain scores vs Germany, Messi has a world Cup and 1 more ballondo'r.
3.Portugals success in 2016 was much more about the team, the luck of the draw and luck within games. Messi, individually had a much better copa America but lost in a penalty shootout in the final.
4.Ronaldo played his part in this year's Euros but Portugal still went out early.
Conclusion: Messi is the better player unquestionably but Ronaldo deserves respect for his achievements.
Ronaldo fans have started supporting Lewandowski out of fear that Messi would win the ballondo'r if (and its a big if) Argentina were successful in copa America.
Ronaldo despite his goals is almost always average. As a Ronaldo fan, you shouldn't be talking about performances outside goals. It's throwing stones from glass houses.
He didn't play well agaisnt Paraguay. True. I think that he was tired, he played 6 games in 18 days. We will see how he performs in next matches.
Great post
Why? He was good in Euro, and if the topic is about Ballon D'or I simply think Lewandowski is still leading it. Messi doesn't has an outstanding Copa to win it yet but there are still games to play.
Think his chances are minimal now.
And yet there are always some people/haters still go on the routine claim that he does nothing and was average. Why can't people just be fair for once, at 36 he is not going to play forever. He did already given his best in his last Euro, and broke a few all time records too. Let's just try to enjoy both Ronaldo and Messi final years in football, no matter which one we favours more.
Well I personally think to win Ballon D'or, the player need to have exceptional stats, or performances, plus narrative to win it.
Lewandowski has exceptional stats, Messi has performance, but Lewandowski also has the extra edge on narrative (broke Muller record), so he is leading it.
Lewandowski:
Best in:
- 41 goals in 29 league games
- 48 goals in 40 games for his club
- broke Mullers record
Plus point in:
- 3 goals in 3 games in Euro
- won league title
Messi:
Best in:
- 8.52 average rating
Plus point in:
- 38 goals in 47 games for his club
- 2 good games at group stage in Copa
- won domestic cup
This is what I believe happened to Messi too.
Just as much as Ronaldo was lucky to get Ramos’s goals in a CL final - Messi was so so lucky to always play in a Barcelona team.
Look at the wonderful stuff that Iniesta does in this goal - just goes past 3 players with ease after the pressure of the whole team in cohesion that wins the ball, a pass that cuts through like a piece of cake - hardly anyone brings it up but only ever brings up Messi’s wonderful finish. The guy is a technical amazement but has played in one of the most cohesive technical, tactical, possession heavy teams of all time;many would say the best of all time - and he is very lucky to do so.
I had just read how Arthur the Brazilian player looked different and great playing in such a tactical and cohesive team like Barcelona vs how he played with Juventus- his weaknesses, his work rate and his simplicity in passing showed vs how stuff like his simplicity of passing in a cohesive built team looked great in a team that still reap the benefits of its tactical core to this date.
A very lucky player to have played for that team & only played for that team. Barcelona got the benefits of Messi but Messi also got the benefits of Barcelona- something that was far from a team that played like alot of others.
Yes same as Ronaldo and Modric, Kroos, Ramos, Benzema etc or Scholes, Rooney, Vidic, Rio etc
These footballers aren't actually lucky per say. Truth is that they are brilliant enough to be the shining lights of teams with fellow all time great footballers. Where you could say they're lucky I suppose is that they play in an era of super clubs where wealth is even moreso concentrated in a few hands and greater inequality which allows for teams with a domination on and off the pitch and hence stats to be inflated as compared to some previous eras.
But it's odd to call Messi and Ronaldo very very lucky players. I'd say someone who is average but part of a trophy laden team fits the bill better.
Ronaldo played with great players - but I don’t think he played in tactically specific styles of football.
Is SAF one of the most tactical managers of all time? He wasn’t to me and consistently used tactics through the style of his assistant managers- he was much more a well rounded manager leaning on man management.
What about Zidane? Is he a very tactical specific manager? Maybe, maybe not - but he hasn’t played possession football or even gegenpressing team football of the style of Klopp.
Then Ronaldo’s time at Juventus - Arthur goes from a good style player at Barcelona to a place that shows his weaknesses. Average managers with no particular style again.
I’m not really talking about whether Messi and Ronaldo played with great players - I’m talking about Messi playing in one of the most tactically cohesive teams of all time - that even after the date where their best players have retired that they still are able to play possession football to a degree only comparable in top football to Man City.
Messi has arguably always got to play within that type of football and their is significant benefits a player can get from playing in such a style - it’s not just about great players because great players were always going to end up playing next to Ronaldo and Messi.
Okay now I can't take you seriously. Nothing post trying to score pointless points to try to be a top fanboi. Poor Ronaldo who only had to work under the greatest ever football manager and the most successful European manager in recent times.
Okay now I can't take you seriously. Nothing post trying to score pointless points to try to be a top fanboi. Poor Ronaldo who only had to work under the greatest ever football manager and the most successful European manager in recent times.
Likewise Messi and his fan bois that can’t see he played for the most tactically built team of the last 10-15 years (with even below average managers like koeman still capable of playing possession football) and Messi added to the benefits of that team whilst Messi got the benefits of that team too.
It’s why I judge his Argentina outcomes a bit more closely because it’s the only other team he played for- a team that lacked the oozing tactical abilities of Barcelona year after year.
If he just moves to another club in another league and plays like he swims in La Liga - I can forget about the benefits of that tactical team football and the World Cup winning Spanish team consistently playing behind him.
It won’t happen anyway. Messi will sign a new contract at Barcelona and his doubters will still have their doubts.
Wonderful technical player though - just added on top of a tactical built beauty of a cake.
I like that you accept that your arguments are gutter level and childish but "it's k cos others are stoopid too!".
Anyhoo, another one added to the ignore list.
Lewandowski will win it this year. It's usually a trophy award rather than based on peformances but I can see a situation where none of the major European/international trophy winners (Chelsea, probably Brazil and then France or whoevee for the Euros) having someone who is a serious contender, and hence Lewandowski getting it due to breaking records in Germany and of course winning the Bundesliga. Wouldn't be undeserved either.
Agree with this, within a minute of full time someone was in here talking about how average he was when I thought he actually had a decent game (something that people say he can’t have unless he scores). End of the day it’s a team game and you can only do so much.
Had to check what thread I was in then, almost every post contains the word messi
I like both Messi and Ronaldo, but I find ronaldo far more enjoyable to watch. He's more complete, even though Messi is the better dribbler. But Ronaldo is just good at everything, heading, shooting, dribbling.
I think it's a bid sad that people immdiately had glee over Ronaldo and Portugal were knocked out. He's 36. At the end of the day he had as good a tourmament as you would expect from a 36 year old world class poacher.
Weird how unappreciated one of the greatest players ever and former Utd player who catapulted us to our best three seasons of football under Fergie.
He will be missed massively when he's gone, just like Messi will be. The end of an era really. The two of them have defined the last 15 or so years.
He will be missed massively when he's gone, just like Messi will be. The end of an era really. The two of them have defined the last 15 or so years.
He's had a fantastic career and I wish he had stayed longer at United. I would however hate for United to take him back now and I don't think they will. He's understandably declining and wouldn't add much valu on the pitch.
Actually I would say that apart from Messi's iconic solo goals, the quality of Ronaldo's goals have been as good as Messi's. He's scored pretty much every type of goal you can. When you look at his 700+ goals on youtube, the quality of a lot his goals is very impressive.
Glazers care more about value off the pitch, so he would be ok here.
Jeez
Solid tournament considering his age and Portugals defensive approach in many matches. Yes, 3 of 5 goals were pens (still an underrated asset to score them constantly) and one tap in, however it`s not like Portugal created a shitload and he was wasteful.
What he needs to realize is that he has to get rid of the ball quicker, he ain`t 23 anymore and he can`t really beat his man. His off the ball movement is the best in the world and he has enough attacking talent around him to trust them with the ball, so he should make use of that.
What he needs to realize is that he has to get rid of the ball quicker, he ain`t 23 anymore and he can`t really beat his man. His off the ball movement is the best in the world and he has enough attacking talent around him to trust them with the ball, so he should make use of that.
Not to derail the thread further but Ronaldo is better in the air because he is 6 inches taller. Ronaldo is better at heading, positioning, penalties and determination.
Messi is better at dribbling, passing, creativity, vision, shooting (better goals per shot ratio proves that), free kicks, close control.
Better goals per shoot doesn’t necessarily prove being better in shooting though, it could be one taking more easier shoots at better chances while the other taking more shoot from half chances at difficult angle/distance, just for argument sake.
I keep thinking I’m in the messi v ronaldo thread and having to double check.
on Topic, I’m gutted for ronaldo and it being his last euro championship, I hope he makes the World Cup next year. Will be a sad day when he hangs up his boots.
on Topic, I’m gutted for ronaldo and it being his last euro championship, I hope he makes the World Cup next year. Will be a sad day when he hangs up his boots.
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