I feel like every Juve game I've seen, Dybala looked the best player on that Juve team. I think CR7 would look better in a different system than what Sarri likes to use, but with all of these penalties he's looking better than I've felt he's actually performed.
Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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I feel like every Juve game I've seen, Dybala looked the best player on that Juve team. I think CR7 would look better in a different system than what Sarri likes to use, but with all of these penalties he's looking better than I've felt he's actually performed.
So its just purely down to opinion and perception then. Let's just say, I've almost watched almost every game Juventus played this season, and I don't agree Dybala is better, whoscored doesn't agree either. I feel Ronaldo has been by far Juventus most important player, and impactful player. Dybala does have some good games here and there, but he doesn't have same level of impact overall.
If you're going off WhoScored ratings then I'm sure you'll happily agree Messi, Lewandowski, Neymar, and Mbappe have all been better than Ronaldo this season. There's also 91 players who have been better than him in the CL this season too.
First they are not playing in same league. Second, I've already said whoscored is not decisive to judge who is better. But for players playing in same league and same team and same games, I think the rating does give a better picture under exact same context, than someone who just form his opinion base on his own selective perception (where he thinks Dybala is clearly the better player).
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But stats are more misleading sometimes than your own perception. We know CR7's got a ridiculous amount of penalties to make up his goal tally, that's obviously added quite a bit to his rating despite his overall performances over someone like Dybala who, again, I think shines more for the team than CR7 has under Sarri. It could be that it's the Sarri ball system, or that an aging CR7 is more limited in his impact and his main contribution is going to be goals and limited moments of brilliance. He's incredibly fit, but he's clearly lost a few steps, and it's not a rating on a website that's going to convince me he's been Juve's best player, that all can change with the champion's league coming up though.
I am not even talking about goals. I am merely talking about average ratings and MOTM performances. Ronaldo is far far better than Dybala in terms of these 2 particular aspect, even when they are playing under the exact same environment and against exact same opponents. I don't think penalty will gives player higher rating at all. For example, Lukaku is the main penalty taker for Inter, and top scorer for Inter, he only has 7.3 average rating, and 3 MOTM performance. Immobile is by far top scorer for Lazio, he scores same no. of goals as Ronaldo, and takes all penalties too, but his avg rating is at 7.48, and he wasn't even top avg rating in his team. So no, you logic doesn't adds up.
I can only say, Dybala is a better playmaker, because that's his main role. He does have slightly more key pass and dribble. But Ronaldo is better forward or wing forward, and better player, he has far more goals scored, and bigger impact to the game, far more decisive in winning games for his team, which is also reflected from his far superior avg rating and MOTM performances.
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Ronaldo has had a great season, but there is no credible argument for him being the best player in the world.
I'm not even sure he's the 2nd best player in the world either.
I'm not even sure he's the 2nd best player in the world either.
I also think it's hard to bear. It's totally cool that his fans are cheering every goal of him in this threat but at times they get totally over the top and although you really don't want to get involved, it's hard to not point out how ridiculous that is and how numerous players were significantly better than him this season, including a certain rival of his.
45 goals in all competitions for clubs and country this season. Even without penalties, he still outscore the other Argentinian GOAT with penalties. Some of you are out of your minds underrating him.
Who are the numerous players “significantly better than him this season?”
Strange comment. Very few here argue he is the best in the world. Most of us think Lewandowski is better this season. I think Ronaldo is among the top 2 or 3. Messi is up there too, behind Lewandowski.
I think he is just trying to wind people up. Other than Lewandowski, I don't think anyone could put a solid argument to support such claim.
In terms of goals scored, he is only behind Lewandowski. (2nd)
In terms of avg rating (whoscored), he is only behind Messi and Lewandowski (I count Mbappe/Neymar out because they had far fewer games to compare) (3rd)
In terms of MOTM performance (whoscored) he is only behind Messi. (2nd)
In terms of trophies won, well he looks set to win league title with Juventus, and we need to wait and see who will win CL too.
In terms of perception/opnions, hater will think he is useless, fans would think he is the best. So it doesn't matter.
So accordingly to above, he is easily among top 2 or 3.
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Why is Ronaldo up there but not Immobile?
Why do people care so much if people love Ronaldo? What happened in your life to make you such a control freak that you have to tell people what they can and can't like/do on an internet forum? 
I'm phenomenally impressed by what Ronaldo's done in his 30s. I don't follow very closely like some in this thread, but I am saddened by the vitriol fans get for the audacity of being fans.
It'd almost be as good as our front 3
I'm phenomenally impressed by what Ronaldo's done in his 30s. I don't follow very closely like some in this thread, but I am saddened by the vitriol fans get for the audacity of being fans.
It'd almost be as good as our front 3
Are we really arguing whether or not Ronaldo has been great this year? Without his goals, Juve wouldn't be top imo.
Immobile only match Ronaldo in league goals. Here's breakdown of their stats (with ranking in the world) to show you why I think he is not up there in same tier:
League goals:
Ronaldo: 30 goals in 30 games (2nd)
Immobile: 30 goals in 33 games (2nd)
Goals for clubs:
Ronaldo: 34 goals in 42 games (2nd)
Immobile: 33 goals in 40 games (4th)
Goals for country:
Ronaldo: 11 goals in 6 games (1st)
Immobile: 4 goals in 3 games (?)
Overall:
Ronaldo: 45 goals in 48 games (2nd)
Immobile: 37 goals in 43 games (3rd)
Avg rating (whoscored): (excluding players with far less games played)
Ronaldo: 7.91 (3rd)
Immobile: 7.49 (19th)
MOTM (whoscored):
Ronaldo: 10 (2nd)
Immobile 8 (7th)
Major Trophies:
Ronaldo: 1?
Immobile: 0
In short, other than same no. of league goals scored, Ronaldo has easily better overall goals scored, far better avg rating, more MOTM, and likely to win more major trophies, than Immobile. Overall they are not comparable. Only Lewandowski and Messi are comparable, where I think only Lewandowski is clearly better.
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Good breakdown, and while I don't think those 2 are comparable, it's fair to say that Cristiano plays in more dominatant team, is surrounded with better players which makes Immobile achivements even more impressive since he's far from having service Cristiano has.
Immobile is nowhere near quality wise to Cristiano IMO, although this year in league there's not much between them.
So basically Ronaldo had a better season than Immobile because he scored 7 goals in 2 games against Lithuania? Because right now, that's the only difference I can see. If you're only looking at their club goals they're easily comparable.
Ronaldo is more likely to win trophies because he plays for a better team. I'd say 30 league goals and 8 assists in 33 games for the 4th placed team is more impressive than 30 league goals and 5 assists in 30 games for the best team.
Do you have a problem with reading? I've listed out everything here, Ronaldo is clearly better in everything else, including far better average rating and more MOTM performance over the course of the season. You only select one aspect to read, that is his international goals. Besides, Immobile only scored 3 goals against Armenia and Finland, 2 of which came from a 9-1 win against Armenia, which is not exactly world beaters too. Its not really too wise for you to use "international goals against minor teams" arguement to discredit Ronaldo when comparing the two.
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Personally I don't think anyone ever doubted that Ronaldo would do well in the Seria A. For me it's turned out pretty much as I expected. He is naturally one of greatest players of all time and has amazing longevity. If he moved to PSG next season, I would bet on him scoring 50 goals like Zlatan did when he was 35. I can see going on till he is 40 at least even if it's just in the MLS in is last years.
Using nation goals to compare Messi and Ronaldo when Ronaldo played far more against shitty teams (Messi only had 2 against Brazil and Uruguay), come on, you"re better than that. I'm far from being a Messi fan (and i have no interest in comparing them) but you can't just cherry pick like that and then say for exemple "i count out Neymar and Mbappe for such and such reason" because it suits you.
Why do people care so much if people love Ronaldo? What happened in your life to make you such a control freak that you have to tell people what they can and can't like/do on an internet forum?
I'm phenomenally impressed by what Ronaldo's done in his 30s. I don't follow very closely like some in this thread, but I am saddened by the vitriol fans get for the audacity of being fans.
It'd almost be as good as our front 3
This, fecking weirdos
As far as the debate about his current standing in world football? Who cares? Seriously? The man is 35 and the fact that he is even still mentioned among the best is an almost absurd achievement.
And you think its fair to discount Ronaldo penalty, while counting Messi penalty when doing the comparison? Come on, you are better than that.
And you think its fair to compare avg rating of someone who only play less than half season of matches, to someone who played nearly full season of matches? Ok, whatever suits you. Why not just give Ballon D'or to someone who had only played 5 or 10 games over the season, with average rating of 9 then. Because that's clearly your logic here.
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Why the feck are people counting country goals for Ronaldo?
the feck is this shit?
Messi has 5 pen's all season
Ronaldo's at 13(16 if you count country ). There's a reason for the Penaldo jokes 1/3 of all his goals are pens
the feck is this shit?
Messi has 5 pen's all season
Ronaldo's at 13(16 if you count country ). There's a reason for the Penaldo jokes 1/3 of all his goals are pens
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Shouldn't we keep the Ronaldo vs Messi topic in the specific thread for it?
I didn't really compare Messi and Ronaldo and as i said, it's not something i'm interested in. But if I was to do it, i'd cound Messi's PK as well (and even those he missed). PK's can be ignored when assessing a player if there's a reasonable amount, but when it represents around 40% of your league total, you can't ignore that fact.
Yeh lets discount all penalty goals and international goals then, and discount all goals scored in Germany too because its irrelevant league anyway. This way Messi is still the best.
Ok choose your specific criteria which suits you, what else you want to ignore? How about lets ignore international goals too? Great. Let's just find the stats you like and ignore everything else, and do the comparison again, under specific criteria you would like to set.
Why not lets go back to all goals scored from every players out there, ignoring all the penalties goals. Lets deduct penalties from all the recording breaking season from Messi too, to see the true figure. Opps Rashford hasn't break his 20 goals per season yet, what a shite forward. Bruno didn't score much for us afterall, if taking all his penalties away... poor lad
Oh why not discount freekicks too? Its not fair to include any set piece goals as well, as its not exactly open play goals.
Tap in goals within 12 yard shouldn't count too, if penalty wasn't counted, just be fair.
Remember, international goal doesn't count at all, it never happens.
Oh, are we still fighting top 4 without the penalties? Lets see again
Please ignore all the VAR goals too, its crap.
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It’s an official match of the 19/20 season.... why would you not?
Since when do people not count goals from all comps?
You guys are getting weirder and weirder by the day.
“Penaldo” yet we have already seen countless times where Messi can’t seem to score one but hey since Ronaldo can they don’t count.
We are talking about BY FAR the best goal scorer in the history of the sport.
- 50+ goals in arguably the 3 best leagues in the world (4 at the least)
- 3 goals away from breaking the single season goal record for Juve in only his second season and at 35
-45 goals in 49 appearances (at 35)
- Série A champion
Im sorry but this guy is PROVEN in 3 different leagues and at 35 is still a top 3 player in the world.
Just a freak of nature and something we won’t see again for a very long time.
- 3 goals away from breaking the single season goal record for Juve in only his second season and at 35
-45 goals in 49 appearances (at 35)
- Série A champion
Im sorry but this guy is PROVEN in 3 different leagues and at 35 is still a top 3 player in the world.
Just a freak of nature and something we won’t see again for a very long time.
Messi, Sancho, Neymar, Mane, Mbappe, Lewandowski, de Bruyne, Werner. And if we go by @RedRonaldo s statistics, Immobile was slightly better, too. That's obviously not my opinion, I just wanted to highlight how dumb judging a player based on his goal stats is.
So Ronaldo had a better season than Immobile because a) he scored 7 goals against Lithuania and b) his average Whoscored rating was slightly better than Immobile's?
See, that's the reason Ronaldo is getting so much hate according to you guys. Your arguments are dumb and you'd never make them in the first place if had no agenda. Thing is, Cristiano is still a world class striker aged 35 which is a downright incredible achievement in his own right, he doesn't even need these agenda driven exaggerations his fans keep posting in here. If you spout so much nonsense, don't be offended when people call you out for it.
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Because we never did that for any other player but as soon as the MessivCR debate started people were starting to count country goals which is absurd considering the level of teams Portugal usually plays against.
Messi has converted 77.69% of his penalties, Cristiano 83.54%.
Tbh it completely normal that we usually count players goals for their club season with a few exeptions. The 2007-2008 season for Ronaldo is the season where we remember him for scoring 42 goals, not for scoring 43 goals(with his 1 international goal included). Just like it we remember Zlatan's 50 goal season for PSG at 35. It's not wrong to include international goals, it's just that we usually don't do it unless there is a very specific reason to like when Messi broke Gerd Mullers all time record for goals scored in a calendar year. Ronaldo will probably top the all time international goal scorers list within 3 years max and it deserves to mentioned and applauded when he does.
SIUUUUIs anyone going to dispute Ronaldo's whoscored rating yet?
His drive is unbelievable. I was thinking about this the other day, when will he retire? I think he’ll want to obliterate every record possible and won’t stop until he accomplishes it. I think he can be playing another 3-4 years at the top and still be putting up incredible numbers.
That’s quite a difference especially after how many games they have played.
I truly see him playing AT LEAST until he’s 39 and at best 40.
He has 2 more years of top level European football left in him and then at 37-38 head over to another league and bad 30 goals (a weaker league I’m sure)
He does not look nor does he play like he’s 35.
No it's not. We are talking about ~10 goals if both take 200 penalties. Ronaldo is a better penalty taker but not by much.
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