Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin

[SportingCP96]

Because we never did that for any other player but as soon as the MessivCR debate started people were starting to count country goals which is absurd considering the level of teams Portugal usually plays against.

Speak for yourself. It is an official Match of the 19-20 season. Why the hell would someone not count that?

“Weaker oppositions” sure well when it comes to the top international countries Portugal is also one of the weakest. Secondly he does it in the Euro and against top nations as well (Spain comes to mind recently) so this redirect is a simply a lazy attempt to “try” and discount someone’s goals.

He is on the verge of breaking the international goals record AND has obliterated Portugal’s top goal scorer record.

So once again for him and for any other player why on earth would you not count an official game or the current season?

If that’s the debate then we should not count Ronaldo’s goals vs sassuolo or Genoa and not count messis goals against alaves and other weak teams in la liga or lewa against werder Bremen.

See how silly that argument sounds? It is an obvious attempt to dismiss Ronaldo’s achievements.

 

[SportingCP96]

No it's not. We are talking about ~10 goals if both take 200 penalties. Ronaldo is a better penalty taker but not by much.

We are also not taking account high pressure penalty situations which Messi struggles with.

Think Chile and Chelsea For Messi

Think Vs Juve or CL final for Ronaldo.

Messi Ducks under pressure penalties where as Ronaldo does not and there are MANY examples of this.

 

[Metalix]

For us Dybala is the most important player in the team. Without him our chance creation would be none. Everything goes through him.

We aren't playing to Ronaldo's strength at all. He has been playing as winger last 2 seasons. He has adjusted himself tremendously with 2 different ideas of Allegri and Sarri and still scoring for fun while running his ass off all over the pitch.

He would have easily scored +55 goals for us if we had a capable midfielder behind him instead of Matuidi.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Messi, Sancho, Neymar, Mane, Mbappe, Lewandowski, de Bruyne, Werner. And if we go by @RedRonaldo s statistics, Immobile was slightly better, too. That's obviously not my opinion, I just wanted to highlight how dumb judging a player based on his goal stats is.



So Ronaldo had a better season than Immobile because a) he scored 7 goals against Lithuania and b) his average Whoscored rating was slightly better than Immobile's?

See, that's the reason Ronaldo is getting so much hate according to you guys. Your arguments are dumb and you'd never make them in the first place if had no agenda. Thing is, Cristiano is still a world class striker aged 35 which is a downright incredible achievement in his own right, he doesn't even need these agenda driven exaggerations his fans keep posting in here. If you spout so much nonsense, don't be offended when people call you out for it.

Nah it isn't just slightly better, even if you would like to think so. Lets look at top average rating in Serie A:

1. Ronaldo 7.91
2. Ilicic 7.65
3. Gomez 7.58
4. Alberto 7.56
5. Zapata 7.52
6. Dybala 7.48
6. Immobile 7.48

In fact there quite a large gap between Ronaldo and the others, if compared the players within the same league. Let's just be fair and honest with it.

Again, why keep bringing up he scored 7 goals against Lithuania, when Immobile could only scored 3 goals against Armenia and Finland, 2 of which came from a 9-1 win against Armenia, which is not exactly world beaters too. Before you point your at finger on someone, lets just be fair, please take a step back, and apply the same standard with the other players too. Otherwise no one could take you seriously, if you keep using double standard selectively to suit your claim.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Ronaldo has been good but to say only Lewandowski has been better this season is rubbish.

Club stats.

Ronaldo: G 34 A 7 Total 41
Lewa: G 51 A 6 Total 57
Mbappe: G 30 A 17 Total 47
Messi: G 30 A 26 Total 56.

I couldn’t be bothered to find stats on more players but how is Lewa the only player been better than Ron this season? Mbappe and Messi are also ahead stats wise.

Ronaldo fan boys getting giddy over a good season, when others have produced way better. I would like to know your spin on the above stats to explain why he is doing better than all but Lewa.

 

[GifLord]

Speak for yourself. It is an official Match of the 19-20 season. Why the hell would someone not count that?

“Weaker oppositions” sure well when it comes to the top international countries Portugal is also one of the weakest. Secondly he does it in the Euro and against top nations as well (Spain comes to mind recently) so this redirect is a simply a lazy attempt to “try” and discount someone’s goals.

He is on the verge of breaking the international goals record AND has obliterated Portugal’s top goal scorer record.

So once again for him and for any other player why on earth would you not count an official game or the current season?

If that’s the debate then we should not count Ronaldo’s goals vs sassuolo or Genoa and not count messis goals against alaves and other weak teams in la liga or lewa against werder Bremen.

See how silly that argument sounds? It is an obvious attempt to dismiss Ronaldo’s achievements.

Because we don't like ever.
When someone's says xx amount of goals in all comps country goals are never counted in and never were.
This shit was conned by CR fanboys who have to stat pad his hero.
Lukaku is another one. 60% of his goals for country aren't even worth being mentioned.

 

[SportingCP96]

Ronaldo has been good but to say only Lewandowski has been better this season is rubbish.

Club stats.

Ronaldo: G 34 A 7 Total 41
Lewa: G 51 A 6 Total 57
Mbappe: G 30 A 17 Total 47
Messi: G 30 A 26 Total 56.

I couldn’t be bothered to find stats on more players but how is Lewa the only player been better than Ron this season? Mbappe and Messi are also ahead stats wise.

Ronaldo fan boys getting giddy over a good season, when others have produced way better. I would like to know your spin on the above stats to explain why he is doing better than all but Lewa.

Lewa Ronaldo and Messi have been by far the 3 best players in the world this season.

Im sorry but Mbappe is in a team 20x better then any other team in ligue 1. The league bar was psg is almost of the same quality as Portugal.

If Ronaldo is in Paris he has 50 goals a season and you all would say the same thing (zlatan is proof he would score 50)

“Giddy over a good season”

My friend he has had good season for 15+ years.

Lastly the reasons Ronaldo’s stats are so impressive is because of the dog shit team he has around him when you compare it to the other top teams in the world. There is ZERO creativity in that side.

In fact I will have to find the stat and pull it up but Ronaldo is under the top 20 of clear cut chances he has had this season and STILL managed 45 goals in all comps and over 30 for Juve.

Chris wood of burnley was one of the 20 players who had more clear cut chances then Ronaldo this season.

This ain’t hard.

 

[SportingCP96]

Because we don't like ever.
When someone's says xx amount of goals in all comps country goals are never counted in and never were.
This shit was conned by CR fanboys who have to stat pad his hero.
Lukaku is another one. 60% of his goals for country aren't even worth being mentioned.

If you still think it’s “stat padding” when he has proven he is the best player of his generation shows the salt levels in here are through the roof.

You just have to see the amount of Messi fans who live in this thread hoping for his downfall.

He is the best player of his generation for a reason.

 

[kouroux]

Lewa Ronaldo and Messi have been by far the 3 best players in the world this season.

Im sorry but Mbappe is in a team 20x better then any other team in ligue 1. The league bar was psg is almost of the same quality as Portugal.

If Ronaldo is in Paris he has 50 goals a season and you all would say the same thing (zlatan is proof he would score 50)

“Giddy over a good season”

My friend he has had good season for 15+ years.

Lastly the reasons Ronaldo’s stats are so impressive is because of the dog shit team he has around him when you compare it to the other top teams in the world. There is ZERO creativity in that side.

In fact I will have to find the stat and pull it up but Ronaldo is under the top 20 of clear cut chances he has had this season and STILL managed 45 goals in all comps and over 30 for Juve.

Chris wood of burnley was one of the 20 players who had more clear cut chances then Ronaldo this season.

This ain’t hard.

The same can be said with Messi and the current Barca

 

[The holy trinity 68]

We are also not taking account high pressure penalty situations which Messi struggles with.

Think Chile and Chelsea For Messi

Think Vs Juve or CL final for Ronaldo.

Messi Ducks under pressure penalties where as Ronaldo does not and there are MANY examples of this.

Ronaldo missed a penalty in the 08 CL final shootout. There are also examples of Ronaldo ducking under pressure. Both have supplied stacks of key goals in key pressure moments.

We are also not taking account high pressure penalty situations which Messi struggles with.

Think Chile and Chelsea For Messi

Think Vs Juve or CL final for Ronaldo.

Messi Ducks under pressure penalties where as Ronaldo does not and there are MANY examples of this.

Messi has 29 goals and 14 assists in 34 cup finals.

Ronaldo has 19 goals and 2 assists in 30 cup finals.

Messi total 44 goals/assists.
Ronaldo 21 goals/assists.

Messi goals/assists per game percentage = 126%

Ronaldo = 70%.

The above doesn’t look like Messi folds under pressure but Ronaldo doesn’t.

 

[Gehrman]

Because we don't like ever.
When someone's says xx amount of goals in all comps country goals are never counted in and never were.
This shit was conned by CR fanboys who have to stat pad his hero.
Lukaku is another one. 60% of his goals for country aren't even worth being mentioned.

The other problem is that when focusing only on goalscoring the bigger picture get's lost in 11 man team game. Lampard shits all over Iniesta, Roy keane, Viera, Xavi and Zidane in goals and assists, but no one but Chelsea fans would say that he was a level above them. Although he was a very good player to be fair.

Lukkaku will probably finish with a better goals to games ratio than Didier Drogba, but I will never in a million years consider him a better footballer.

 

[SportingCP96]

The same can be said with Messi and the current Barca

Sure yet the sad thing is they are still better then Juve which is saying a lot because Barca have been a joke all season as well and they have a much better squad then Juve does.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Lewa Ronaldo and Messi have been by far the 3 best players in the world this season.

Im sorry but Mbappe is in a team 20x better then any other team in ligue 1. The league bar was psg is almost of the same quality as Portugal.

If Ronaldo is in Paris he has 50 goals a season and you all would say the same thing (zlatan is proof he would score 50)

“Giddy over a good season”

My friend he has had good season for 15+ years.

Lastly the reasons Ronaldo’s stats are so impressive is because of the dog shit team he has around him when you compare it to the other top teams in the world. There is ZERO creativity in that side.

In fact I will have to find the stat and pull it up but Ronaldo is under the top 20 of clear cut chances he has had this season and STILL managed 45 goals in all comps and over 30 for Juve.

Chris wood of burnley was one of the 20 players who had more clear cut chances then Ronaldo this season.

This ain’t hard.

Juve are about to win their 9th league title in a row.

PSG have won 8 of the last 9 if you include this season. Juve are just as dominate in Italy as PSG are in France.

 

[SportingCP96]

Juve are about to win their 9th league title in a row.

PSG have won 8 of the last 9 if you include this season. Juve are just as dominate in Italy as PSG are in France.

If you are seriously comparing PSG in ligue 1 to Juve in serie A then ima see my way out of this convo because at this point it is just silly to say the least.

 

[tenpoless]

PSG? they could play with 10 men and win every week.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Not necessary true though. Martial average 1.6 dribble per game this season, Ronaldo average 1.8 dribble per game.
Martial scored 22 goals in 42 games for Man Utd this season. Ronaldo scored 34 in 42 games for Juventus.

So in terms of goals and dribbling, Ronaldo is still better.

You may argue its easier to score and perform in Italy, but we are also talking same league where our Bruno fail to shine not long ago.

So the question is, has he loss his pace, skill, power, dribble this season? Let's take a look at this:



He is still has bags of tricks in his pocket, his shots are still powerful, he still jumps higher than anyone else, he still has good burst of pace in his runs, and he still scores alot of goals. I'd say he is still by far the fittest 30+ years old players in the world. Sure his pace, strength, stamina and athleticism may not be up to his physical peak level back when he was at 25, but he is still easily good enough and better than most others, even at age 35. Yes he wasn't the same player as he was in 25, but he isn't anything less other top 25 years old player today, even in terms of physical/strength/pace/skill.

It's okay bro, these guys can't take the facts. Let them go on and build the narrative that Ronaldo is done.

They will have egg on their faces at the end of every season where Ronaldo scores 30+ at the age of 35 and bags more trophies year in year out.

Wait until Sarri is replaced and he scores 40+ a season.

 

[Mogget]

Do you have a problem with reading? I've listed out everything here, Ronaldo is clearly better in everything else, including far better average rating and more MOTM performance over the course of the season. You only select one aspect to read, that is his international goals. Besides, Immobile only scored 3 goals against Armenia and Finland, 2 of which came from a 9-1 win against Armenia, which is not exactly world beaters too. Its not really too wise for you to use "international goals against minor teams" arguement to discredit Ronaldo when comparing the two.

I ignored the whoscored ratings because that's a pretty shit way of comparing footballers, and Ronaldo only has two more MOTM performances over Immobile so that's pretty negligible. I'm also not using the international goals against minor teams argument to discredit Ronaldo because I even said if you're only comparing their club records they're very even.

 

[SportingCP96]

PSG? they could play with 10 men and win every week.

Don’t even bother.

The length that the Messi brigado will go too to push Messi over.

Comparing Juve to PSG in their league and then (this is my favorite) saying that goals in official matches and qualifiers do not count.

You Just love to see it.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

If you are seriously comparing PSG in ligue 1 to Juve in serie A then ima see my way out of this convo because at this point it is just silly to say the least.

Sorry but this is a team that has won the title 9 years in a row, 7 before Ronaldo arrived.

They walk away with the title every year, Juve are and have been by far the best team in Italy for a decade. They would have won the last 2 titles with or without Ronaldo and will continue to sweep up titles long after Ronaldo has left.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Don’t even bother.

The length that the Messi brigado will go too to push Messi over.

Comparing Juve to PSG in their league and then (this is my favorite) saying that goals in official matches and qualifiers do not count.

You Just love to see it.

Monaco won the title against prime PSG. No team has won the title vs Juventus since 2011.

 

[SportingCP96]

Sorry but this is a team that has won the title 9 years in a row, 7 before Ronaldo arrived.

They walk away with the title every year, Juve are and have been by far the best team in Italy for a decade. They would have won the last 2 titles with or without Ronaldo and will continue to sweep up titles long after Ronaldo has left.

They were pushed to the final weeks in 2 of the last 3 weeks where as PSG has won the title by December the past 4 years.

Are we seriously trying to say that PSG aren’t a shark living in a fecking pond of goldfish?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

They were pushed to the final weeks in 2 of the last 3 weeks where as PSG has won the title by December the past 4 years.

Are we seriously trying to say that PSG aren’t a shark living in a fecking pond of goldfish?

Yes PSG are but to suggest a team that has won 9 titles in a row are not superior to every other team in Italy is ridiculous.

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

12 penalty goals in Serie A.
Some of you are out of your minds overrating him

By that token Bruno Fernandes has been pretty average for United considering most of his goals were penalties. Or are we only now picking and choosing when PK's matter?

If Rashford, Pogba or Martial were as good as penalty takers as Ronaldo, we would have CL qualification done and dusted right now. It pays to be an amazing PK taker and when it comes to them, Ronaldo is by far the best of the lot.

What converting PK's at a high rate tells you is someone that has lots of composure, confidence and accuracy. Something that our players could definitely do more of.

 

[SportingCP96]

Yes PSG are but to suggest a team that has won 9 titles in a row are not superior to every other team in Italy is ridiculous.

Sure but I am talking about the level of competition and quality player in both leagues.

That same Monaco team scored over 110 goals in France that season.

The record of goals Was set by Atalanta in the mid 80s.

You can not possibly compare them.

On top of that a 35 year old zlatan was scoring 50 goals a season over there. It’s not hard. Depay is a star over there. Enough said.

 

[GifLord]

By that token Bruno Fernandes has been pretty average for United considering most of his goals were penalties. Or are we only now picking and choosing when PK's matter?

If Rashford, Pogba or Martial were as good as penalty takers as Ronaldo, we would have CL qualification done and dusted right now. It pays to be an amazing PK taker and when it comes to them, Ronaldo is by far the best of the lot.

What converting PK's at a high rate tells you is someone that has lots of composure, confidence and accuracy. Something that our players could definitely do more of.

jesus christ
Since when was Bruno judged by goals? He's a playmaker ffs

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Sure but I am talking about the level of competition and quality player in both leagues.

That same Monaco team scored over 110 goals in France that season.

The record of goals Was set by Atalanta in the mid 80s.

You can not possibly compare them.

On top of that a 35 year old zlatan was scoring 50 goals a season over there. It’s not hard. Depay is a star over there. Enough said.

Immobile has 30 goals and 7 assists in Serie A this season and Quagliarella got 26 goals and 7 assists last season.

Lukaku has 21 goals in the league, he has only ever scored more than 21 in a league season once, for Everton. In his first season in Italy he has already scored more league goals than every season he has ever played bar one.

The standard in Italy isn’t exactly great.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ronaldo has been good but to say only Lewandowski has been better this season is rubbish.

Club stats.

Ronaldo: G 34 A 7 Total 41
Lewa: G 51 A 6 Total 57
Mbappe: G 30 A 17 Total 47
Messi: G 30 A 26 Total 56.

I couldn’t be bothered to find stats on more players but how is Lewa the only player been better than Ron this season? Mbappe and Messi are also ahead stats wise.

Ronaldo fan boys getting giddy over a good season, when others have produced way better. I would like to know your spin on the above stats to explain why he is doing better than all but Lewa.

No one says Ronaldo is clearly 2nd best and above Messi. I didn't say so at the very least. Only Lewandowsk has been "clearly" better though, you can include others where you think are "arguably" better, I am fine with that.

Also, your stats are just plain wrong, since when does Mbappe have 17 assists? He only has 9, so total goals+assists he only has 39, which is behind Ronaldo.

So Ronaldo has been the best 2 or 3 players, behind Lewandowski, is still correct.

If you ask me, if base on club stats alone, its Lewandowski>Messi>Ronaldo.

If base on all stats, it's Lewandowski>Ronaldo>Messi

(I personally rate goal higher than assists)

 

[Oly Francis]

They were pushed to the final weeks in 2 of the last 3 weeks where as PSG has won the title by December the past 4 years.

Are we seriously trying to say that PSG aren’t a shark living in a fecking pond of goldfish?

PSG is more dominating this year that's true, but again, that's cherry picking from CR7 fans. As I've said, Mbappe has to share the scoreboard with Neymar, Icardi and Di Maria. Who is scoring at Juventus other than Ronaldo? Dybala who's benched half of the season? He's the 2nd best scorer with 11 goals.

 

[Siorac]

We are also not taking account high pressure penalty situations which Messi struggles with.

Think Chile and Chelsea For Messi

Think Vs Juve or CL final for Ronaldo.

Messi Ducks under pressure penalties where as Ronaldo does not and there are MANY examples of this.

This is a little bit selective though - since I'm a Manchester United fan, the first things that come to my mind when Ronaldo and penalties are mentioned in the same sentence are the penalty shootout in Moscow and the semi-final the same year in the Camp Nou. He missed a penalty in both.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Immobile has 30 goals and 7 assists in Serie A this season and Quagliarella got 26 goals and 7 assists last season.

Lukaku has 21 goals in the league, he has only ever scored more than 21 in a league season once, for Everton. In his first season in Italy he has already scored more league goals than every season he has ever played bar one.

The standard in Italy isn’t exactly great.

Bruno has 15 goals in 119 Serie A games, he has 7 goals in 12 Premier league games.

Not trying to imply anything. Just saying.

 

[Suedesi]

Can't stand this guy anymore.

 

[Traub]

Do Juve have a chance of winning the champions league?

 

[Gehrman]

This is a little bit selective though - since I'm a Manchester United fan, the first things that come to my mind when Ronaldo and penalties are mentioned in the same sentence are the penalty shootout in Moscow and the semi-final the same year in the Camp Nou. He missed a penalty in both.

No one is going to reply to that.

 

[van der star]

Do Juve have a chance of winning the champions league?

Not unless they make drastic changes to their playing style.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I ignored the whoscored ratings because that's a pretty shit way of comparing footballers, and Ronaldo only has two more MOTM performances over Immobile so that's pretty negligible. I'm also not using the international goals against minor teams argument to discredit Ronaldo because I even said if you're only comparing their club records they're very even.

Well apart from goals, there are also average rating, and MOTM. Its actually very simple, when doing player comparison, we can either compare their stats (clubs stats, country stats), their performances, which could be their average rating, and MOTM performances from 3rd party source in objective sense, or just eye-test in subjective sense (which could be your own redcafe rating), and of course, their impact to the team on winning things, which could be reflected in no. of trophies won. Thats what everyone does to compare anyway.

Of course you could always ignore everything else apart from stats, and even from stats, you could choose to ignore some stats which doesn't suit your agenda too (for example, goals for country, or even penalty goals, or tap in, or goals against weaker team), whatever suit your agenda. But when you do that, please be fair and apply the same to all others, and be consistent with it and be honest to yourself too. Do not try to celebrate and count all the penalty goals from Bruno on one hand, whiling discounting and discrediting penalty goals from Ronaldo on the other hand. Do not try to keep bringing up Ronaldo goals against minor teams in order to discredit him, while not mentioning Immobile goals or lack of goals against minor teams at the same time. It's truly hypocrisy.

But at the end of the day, I just listed out everything I could in objective sense (ratings are from largest 3rd party source available afterall, I didn't make that up), its your choice to accept it or just ignore it, whatever doesn't suit your liking. Sometimes people would even choose to ignore stats, and choose to believe from their own selective perception only. I can't really help that.

 

[Gehrman]

Bruno has 15 goals in 119 Serie A games, he has 7 goals in 12 Premier league games.

Not trying to imply anything. Just saying.

5 of those goals are penalties though. And he is playing in a better team and has matured. Ronaldo took time to develop into a goalscorer as well.

 

[Markolan]

Lukaku has 21 goals in the league, he has only ever scored more than 21 in a league season once, for Everton. In his first season in Italy he has already scored more league goals than every season he has ever played bar one.

5 of those goals are penalties though. And he is playing in a better team and has matured. Ronaldo took time to develop into a goalscorer as well.

If we count penalties for Bruno, we have to do it for Lukaku as well since he's their penalty taker.

Lukaku without penalties:
- 2017/18 for United in the league: 16 goals, 7 assists in 2869' played -> 1 goal every 179'
- 2018/19 for United in the league: 12 goals, 1 assists in 2130' played -> 1 goal every 178'
- 2019/20 for Inter in the league 15 goals, 2 assists in 2624' played -> 1 goal every 175'
source https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rom.../liga/0/wettbewerb//pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1

Very similar stats

 

[VP]

Ronaldo fans getting giddy after he scores a few penalties for the strongest team in a very weak league remind me of Trump fans cheering their man after he drank water without spilling.

 

[RedRonaldo]

jesus christ
Since when was Bruno judged by goals? He's a playmaker ffs

We bought him for his insane no. of goals scored in Portugal, I am100% sure about that, and every people talks about that alot.
He is a good playmaker for us too ever since he joined us, but people always related his success at United with his goals scored too, its not everything but its big part of it, you cant just pretend that isn't the case all of a sudden.

 

[RedRonaldo]

If we count penalties for Bruno, we have to do it for Lukaku as well since he's their penalty taker.

Lukaku without penalties:
- 2017/18 for United in the league: 16 goals, 7 assists in 2869' played -> 1 goal every 179'
- 2018/19 for United in the league: 12 goals, 1 assists in 2130' played -> 1 goal every 178'
- 2019/20 for Inter in the league 15 goals, 2 assists in 2624' played -> 1 goal every 175'
source https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rom.../liga/0/wettbewerb//pos/0/trainer_id/0/plus/1

Very similar stats

Now that's what I am talking about, being fair and square when comparing under same basis, which apply to everyone else. This is something those haters couldn't manage to do here all the time.