Cristiano Ronaldo : The Juventus Chapter | Fin
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I admit his performances the last couple of weeks have dropped but 13 goals is a solid start and he could have had more..The bayer match he should of had a hat trick and the Verona match he was unlucky not to score. VAR also took away a goal on first day of the season very dubiously by a toe nail so I mean he could have easily been on 20. I believe he will end the season with 30ish goals and that's not so much because of decline (which he may well be going through but nothing drastic) as much as atm Juve are winning but they have not been playing well at all. A lot of 1-0 games 2-1 games etc. They are not a high scoring team.
The only time I can remember ever counting international goals for a season tally was when Messi was en route to breaking the alltime record for goals scored.
Sure as hell wasn't the case for Ronaldos 42 goals season at United. Or anyone else really. But anything to prop up yer man I guess.
Sure as hell wasn't the case for Ronaldos 42 goals season at United. Or anyone else really. But anything to prop up yer man I guess.
Every goal counts for Ronaldo
At least every official goal, which the international goals are!
Ok so explain why international goals should not count? They are an official match correct? they are in the current season correct? what makes then count less than a league cup? or a UCL qualifier in august? How about club World Cup? I mean genuinely for what reason would you not count an official match? like what?
You also just contradicted yourself the only time it "counted" in your book was when it was beneficial to Messi.
Anyways international goals count for everyone it is an official match(s) which determines if your country plays in the competition at hand. It makes zero sense and is just stupid not to count it. At that point they may as well be friendlies.
Agreed, on a serious note they should be included.
Ok so explain why international goals should not count? They are an official match correct? they are in the current season correct? what makes then count less than a league cup? or a UCL qualifier in august? How about club World Cup? I mean genuinely for what reason would you not count an official match? like what?
You also just contradicted yourself the only time it "counted" in your book was when it was beneficial to Messi.
Anyways international goals count for everyone it is an official match(s) which determines if your country plays in the competition at hand. It makes zero sense and is just stupid not to count it. At that point they may as well be friendlies.
No one cares about international goals outside of major tournaments and no one actually counts them for season tallies. Except I guess fan boys. This is the bottom line. We all know you only included them here because they make Ronaldos goal tally look more impressive. And if anyone were impressed it's because they believed that it was his club tally. Because that is what everyone assumes when you bring it up like that.
Also, I didn't say it 'counted' for Messi except for the purpose of breaking the all time record. Generally speaking, no one cares. Everyone here knows Ronaldo scores 42 goals in his best season at United. I doubt there are many who could tell you how many he scored that season including internationals without looking it up.
Ok why would "no one" count an official match? Why would an official match which could define if your team qualifies or not not count for there season tallies
So when Portugal faced Sweden in the playoffs to qualify for the WC and Ronaldo scored 4 goals and 3 of them away to Sweden to qualify Portugal for the World Cup you are telling me that that "does not count"? Those were just friendlies in your mind? You can't be serious because this makes no sense at all.
So what’s happening at Juventus with him? Is it fitness or tactical?
It makes enough sense for this to be the normative way of counting it. The only times it is included is as points of exception (scored x goals for the season, and also y Internationally).
A 40+ goal season season is a lot less impressive if you have to include international goals to reach that figure. When people talk of 30 goals a season strikers they sure as hell aren't including international goals in that.
A 40+ goal season season is a lot less impressive if you have to include international goals to reach that figure. When people talk of 30 goals a season strikers they sure as hell aren't including international goals in that.
And Ronaldo actually hit 60 goals in a season twice, without counting internationals.
Ok why would "no one" count an official match? Why would an official match which could define if your team qualifies or not not count for there season tallies
So when Portugal faced Sweden in the playoffs to qualify for the WC and Ronaldo scored 4 goals and 3 of them away to Sweden to qualify Portugal for the World Cup you are telling me that that "does not count"? Those were just friendlies in your mind? You can't be serious because this makes no sense at all.
You're overthinking this. I don't think that's what he's insinuating at all. Of course international goals count (certainly those in tournaments and qualifiers), it's just that the vast majority of media barely ever reports club and NT tallies together, except for special occasions like @B20 referenced. Most football fans thus also don't really take it into account over a season. Stats that we've been hearing over the past years only really started with Messi and Cristiano putting up ridiculous numbers, so suddenly there were stats for everything: most goals in a season for club and country, most goals in a calendar year etc. etc. We heard about this mythical goals record by Gerd Müller, that frankly nobody before had ever heard or cared about. So that didn't really happen for other players before them (or arguably anyone other than them even now).
Also what you said here in bold is incorrect.
Both of them had multiple 60+ goal seasons at club level alone...
Cristiano: 60 goals in 55 games in 11/12 and 61 in 54 in 14/15 for Real Madrid. (69 in 69 and 66 in 60 respectively if you add his Portugal stats)
Messi: 73 goals in 60 games in 11/12 and 60 in 50 in 12/13 for Barça. (82 in 69 and 69 in 62 respectively if you add his Argentina stats)
I believe I'm right in saying both of them only have one other season where they reached 60+ but only if you add their NT stats.
I understand what both of you are trying to say but saying he has 13 goals this season is not a wrong statement because that is how many goals he has this season. If I was just talking about club goals then that is different. I said "Ronaldo has 13 goals this season" not counting the goals for country does not make sense because especially for Portugal who are avid strugglers in qualifiers and normally limp to the Euro for worlds cups those goals 100% count.
saying "international goals don't count" just does not make sense. When I look at goal tallies for Ronaldo, Messi or Jon doe I don't just look at club level.
It's not wrong per se, but it is misleading when you don't clearly indicate that you are including internationals and how many of them are international goals.
Simply saying he has 13 goals this season will get you exactly what happened here. People disbelieving the claim because they assume club level only.
Simply saying he has 13 goals this season will get you exactly what happened here. People disbelieving the claim because they assume club level only.
I did though I put the competition and goals when I quoted Gifford.
He's not getting any younger, so a drop in numbers was always in the cards. The question is if Sarri's choices are making his decline at Juventus faster. I always thought that he and Sarri would make an odd couple. The Italian is very dogmatic and very demanding of his players and he will never put any individual above his philosophy. On the other hand, Ronaldo (or better, his post 30 yo version) is an out-of-this-world finisher when the attacking plays are built around him. His ability to find pockets of space in the box and score goals is the reason why Benzema has survived this long in Madrid and one of the main reasons why Zidane's "cross it in the box" tactics were successful. Allegri is the type of coach who will build the team around a player like Ronnie too. Sarri? Not likely...
This is a heatmap comparing Ronaldo's movement on the pitch after the first 5 games under Sarri and under Allegri:
The freedom to roam under Allegri is more than obvious. If you watch Juventus, you can see that most of the problems stem from Ronaldo getting on the ball in wide areas instead near the box.
Anyway, i don't believe Sarri will risk a war with someone that can help him win the CL. This is too big of an opportunity for him. But he will not create the environment Ronaldo had at Madrid either. We'll see. Maybe if Ronaldo and Dybala develop a good understanding between them, things may get better.
Your latest posts make facts out of your personal opinions, which is not a great way to support arguments when numbers suggest otherwise, if you only wish to have a look. As for Serie A vs La Liga, Smalling, Ramsey and Lukaku say that Serie A is physically harder than the PL (and La Liga, extending the comparison along the lines prtrayed by pundits), which could in part explain why Ronaldo is not able to outpower defenders anymore... they are just as fit as he is, also younger and more numerous. He does not rely upon outmegging them like magic midgets do, hence the impression he can’t dribble or sprint past defenders anymore like old guru Capello is saying these days.
huh.. Has nothing to do with age right? CR will be playing top level football till he's 40
heard it on Redcafe first
Father Time is catching up
I could be just holding on to a childhood hero which could be “blinding” me for what might be happening BUT I believe he may still prove a lot of people wrong. I still think he has a lot to give and it would be silly to right him off.
Time will tell but at his age any bad performance(s) will automatically bring up the “washed up” idea similar to what fans and pundits sometimes say about LeBron as well in the NBA (which is understandable I get it) but still I think there is more to give.
I’ve said all along that Italy is a tougher league to score in than La Liga. Look at how much Real Madrid / Barca score every year vs Juventus, it’s at least 20-30 goals a season in all competitions. So he’s gone to a more defensively minded league, for a team that doesn’t score as much, with a dogmatic coach that favors the system vs the individual and he’s most likely carrying an injury...
Sadly it’s not looking great.
I the team he chose was not the best and the way they play makes him seem worse then he is because you see him in Portugal and he looks like the Ronaldo of Madrid and then he goes to Juve and it’s a different player a more team oriented player rather then a scorer like in Madrid/Portugal.
If the plan is to have him in the wing then he simply can’t do that anymore but if you have him has an out and out scorer he still has a lot to give IMO.
Its only natural that he's on the decline. Doesnt really matter now, hes like 36? The man has done enough now to be considered a top 5 player of all time by most people, he has done his job.
Hope he picks up his form soon.
Hope he picks up his form soon.
@SportingCP96
Juve just simply don't have the midfield that creates a lot of chances. Even during Allegri's last season, Juve didn't strike me as a team that played flamboyant. easy on the eye, attacking football. It was always functional, rational almost cynical approach - just get the necessary output (3 points) with the minimum of effort required.
In the last couple of games in the middle of the park he's played Pjanic, Matuidi, Bentancur and Bernardeschi - or Pjanic, Khedira, Rabiot, Ramsey. Even Dybala and Douglas Costa come in as subs. There's just not enough flair and creativity in there. It's is functional, it's steady, it's balanced but it's not going to create a lot of chances per game.
Juve just simply don't have the midfield that creates a lot of chances. Even during Allegri's last season, Juve didn't strike me as a team that played flamboyant. easy on the eye, attacking football. It was always functional, rational almost cynical approach - just get the necessary output (3 points) with the minimum of effort required.
In the last couple of games in the middle of the park he's played Pjanic, Matuidi, Bentancur and Bernardeschi - or Pjanic, Khedira, Rabiot, Ramsey. Even Dybala and Douglas Costa come in as subs. There's just not enough flair and creativity in there. It's is functional, it's steady, it's balanced but it's not going to create a lot of chances per game.
I agree 120% with this.
It was Ronaldo's call to prioritise wages and go to Juventus of all places, surely he had some idea about Serie A and the overall defense first approach of Juventus? He's earning more money but his numbers suffered, a fair trade I guess.
It was a tactical substitution and Ronaldo has to apologize to his teammates for throwing a fit:
https://www.record.pt/internacional...edido-de-desculpas?ref=HP_DestaquesPrincipais
https://www.record.pt/internacional...edido-de-desculpas?ref=HP_DestaquesPrincipais
Ok why would "no one" count an official match? Why would an official match which could define if your team qualifies or not not count for there season tallies
So when Portugal faced Sweden in the playoffs to qualify for the WC and Ronaldo scored 4 goals and 3 of them away to Sweden to qualify Portugal for the World Cup you are telling me that that "does not count"? Those were just friendlies in your mind? You can't be serious because this makes no sense at all.
No one cares. Club goals are clearly what are meant when we talk about a player's form.
His priority was to go to a top-level club where he could still win big titles. Juventus fitted the bill better than I think he could have hoped for, as well as being a slightly slower paced league which was a good fit.
He has options for sure. But no guarantees of success as a manager. I’m sure his teams would be very fit mind.
The facts don't seem to favour your argument. It is indeed true that he is leaving a really attacking prolific team to join one that isnt, but you shouldn't use that ti generalise about 2 leagues. In 3 of the last 5 seasons, Serie A has averaged more goals per game than la liga, the same is happening this season. At the end of this season, that stat will read 4 of the last 6 seasons. That doesn't scream tougher league to score in.
Ciro Immobile is on 76 in his last 103 games for Lazio, he breezes through these tough Serie A defences.
And 36 year old Fabio Quagliarella last season, scoring 26 league goals in a less prolific team than Juve?
Hell, even Lukaku is on target for 25 in his very first season.
Serie A isnt tougher.
look, serie a teams generally play in a very tight manner and just outside their box against juventus, it is a wall; they are as fit and organised as you, so you need individual brilliance or futsal-style combinations to create clear-cut chances; immobile is a fast but monodimensional counter attacker, which suits lazio’s style very well; and quagliarella is a very experienced and gifted striker that relies upon positional intelligence in the box. It is more worrisome for Sarri when oppo teams press Juve through all the pitch because they expose his not-so-quick-or-gifted midfield.
That is indeed true, but the two seasons before Cristiano arrived, Higuain and Dybala scored 24 and 22 league goals each, 0 and 3 penalties respectively. Teams also played in a very tight manner against those teams, yet it didnt stop those 2 putting up very good numbers. And the midfield wasnt much different.
No one can hide it now. Time has finally started to beat him. Time beats everybody.
you’re simply arguing with people making excuses for Ronaldo.One of the greatest of all time is slowing down and that’s that. No shame in that at all.
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Ronaldo playing today so I guess he was not Injured.
I wouldn't write him off as being over the hill just yet, everytime that has been suggested in the past he has raised his game and gone on a crazy run of goal scoring.
One day time will catch up of course but if there has ever been a player I'd back to prove everyone wrong it is him.
One day time will catch up of course but if there has ever been a player I'd back to prove everyone wrong it is him.
SIIIIIIIIUUUUU
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