You mean you'd take the version who averaged around 1 goal per game over the version who averaged around 1 goal per game but was worse in every other facet of the game? Sure
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
I could, I just won't because there is no point.
I think Cristiano’s longevity is going against him here, in his final years in his first United spell I’m never seen a better more flair player that could literally pull a goal out of his arse and win games by himself. When we won the league & Champions League the idea anyone was better at creating a goal out of nothing is just silly.
Let’s not pretend R9 was ever capable of that Porto goal. Just google his 2007-2008 double winning season and try with a straight face to make that claim.
You can't, because you know deep down that I'm telling the truth. So you just scream 'THAT'S STUPID!!!'
I mean, that's factually wrong but I guess that doesn't matter
Well you could make case for Cristiano's porto goal and free kick vs Arsenal vs Ronaldo Nazarios dribbling goals. I'd never say the two were miles apart at their peak, but I lean towards Ronaldo
It isn't though. *You* are factually wrong, and all it takes is one look at wikipedia, no need for an in depth analysis
You sincerely believe post-2014 Ronaldo was better "in every aspect of the game"? Are you high?
Uh??? Can you read english?
That's not what he wrote. He meant Ronaldo had streamline his game towards goals due to age to keep it up.
This is true, but not even my point. My point is that Cristiano didn't go from an awesome player who didn't score a lot, to a player who scored a lot but wasn't awesome. He went from an awesome player who scored lot, to a less awesome player who still scored a lot
I noticed Buffon has claimed Juve lost their DNA and unity when Ronaldo signed and more of the focus went on playing for his goal tally as opposed to the team. Guessing that’s him on the naughty list too now, or he doesn’t know anything about football either!
Then why were you disagreeing to begin with? That's exactly my point
I repeat, can you read english?
Btw, your point, as is often the case, was complete nonsense. The obsession with goals made Cristiano a better player - it is how he went from the winger scoring 20 goals in 06/07 to the all time monster scoring 50 goals a season between 07/08 and 13/14
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Disingenuous to narrow Ronaldo down to just a profilic goalscorer isn't it?
Unprecedented (that means no ones ever done it before) performances in the actual greatest football competition in the world (Champions League), breaking multiple records in that competition. Being the top scorer in his country's first ever tournament win.
I'm not in no Ronaldo or Messi camp, I find that argument boring. But there's some downplaying of Ronaldo thats unfair in my opinion. To just say loads of players have done what he's done is insane in my opinion.
give it 20 years and he won’t be near the top when it comes to the best of the best. for all his goalscoring, he doesn’t really make you feel anything. he was at his best during his first spell with us. you’d want him to get the ball as you wanted to see him ghost past players and make something happen, a goal at the end of it was almost secondary. by his second spell with us, you were hoping he didn’t get the ball as he’d just shoot from a stupid angle or play a shit pass that meant someone would have to pass it back to him instead of get a shot off themselves.
records are broken, memories fade, and with rose-tinted testicles, he’ll go in the puskas category of great goalscorers, rather than the r9s, zidanes, ronaldinhos who you’ll tell your grandkids you got to see play and were a level above the pansies of the modern game.
records are broken, memories fade, and with rose-tinted testicles, he’ll go in the puskas category of great goalscorers, rather than the r9s, zidanes, ronaldinhos who you’ll tell your grandkids you got to see play and were a level above the pansies of the modern game.
I didn't. That's why i started out with Pelé and Messi. Then i went on if its about prolific goalscoring and winning shitloads i mentioned Gerd Müller.
Well Pele and Messi haven't done what Ronaldo's done either, and that was the original post I replied to.
They have both proven their individual ability is a tier above Cristiano's while winning club and international trophies galore.
Whats the tier above?
Pelé, Messi and Maradona.
You're taking this a bit seriously, mate
That makes no sense with your previous reply to me. They've proven their ability in their own tier?
You failed to read my post or your're just obtuse. They proven their overall football ability is above Cristiano's.
R9 would be in the mix if it wasn't for injury and food too
You're far from telling the truth.
Everyone knows Ronaldo's world cup showings have been poor compared to the rest of his career.
What I said was stupid was creating your own criteria for judging whether or not a player can be considered as the greatest. They must have scored or assisted at the knock out rounds of the world cup.
That criteria immediately removes Cruyff from the conversation, a player who for a long time has been considered as one of the all time greats. Up until the last 20 years where Messi and Ronaldo have dominated the debate about who is the best in the world, he was widely regarded as one of the top 3 players of all time. And I'm sure there's plenty who still include him in that bracket.
Nah, I just thought you meant 'in' not 'is'. My bad.
Out of interest, how much Pele have you watched? Whole games?
Just to reiterate, I find the discussion about where Ronaldo belongs a little tedious. It's all about opinions, just a bit annoying when people throw opinions around like facts and think they're clearly right and others are clearly wrong.
Its all about opinions especially when comparing eras, roles, teammates etc. Its never going to be like sprinting, 1 vs 1 sports or even 2 vs 2 sports. It's hard to arrive at a factual conclusion where you can say there is no discussion to.be had.
I agree. So don't understand why people talk factually. Like you have.
Because i dont start out a post everytime with imo(in my opinion). I take it as a given that its my opinon. On stuff like this anyway.
Exaggerating there mate. Even in the year we won the champions league, Messi was better just injured and Barcelona were a mess. The 2 legs vs them in the semifinal showed a gulf in ability between the two and no Ronaldo wasnt the better player.
Generally, 07/08 is an overrated season both for Ronaldo and for United. We, and Ronaldo played much better football the previous season; injuries to key defenders messed us up in the semis vs Milan. And 08/09, Ronaldo was way below par until around April.
What haven’t they done?
With Ronaldo, there are 2 extremes.
There are those who judge him based on his last few season at Real on onwards (around 2015 and later) and reduce him to a pure goalscorer/ goalpoacher with terrible general play which is true ONLY for the later part of his career.
Than, there are those who exaggerate his performances early on in his career painting him as some kind of dribbling genius during his early days at United (he wasnt at all, more of an often infuriating young player who did countless step overs, lost the ball more than he beat his marker, and made wrong decisions) and some magical player during his peak at United and Real (was great at scoring but his allround play wasn't at the level of many other all-time greats although much better than later on).
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I mean, I can't disagree with the 2nd sentence, that was his peak. He did just about anything on a football pitch, in the offensive phase, quite well.
I'll ask you another question. Let's see if I can finally get an answer; is Cruyff the greatest footballer of all time?
I wouldn't have a problem if someone consider him that, players of such calibre are extremely unique
Despite the seemingly modest stats, Ronaldo's all-around game was much better in 06/07 than in any other season since.
07/08 was the birth of the goalscorer, a player who could be anonymous otherwise in a match yet score a hattrick. This was the version of Ronaldo you saw at Madrid until around 2014/15. His all-round game was good but not to the absolute elite level; it was the stats which galvanised him.
Thereafter, he become a pure goalscorer.
For me, NO. Top 5 though.
What haven’t they done? Play in the desert?
In those 2 seasons at Barcelona and Inter, R9 played at a level that Cristiano never reached. Interms of longevity and career, it is ofcourse a totally different story.
Had what? 1 great year in Barca, 1 in Inter? At a stretch 1-2 good years in Madrid.
No doubt he was one of the most talented players to ever walk the planet but Cristiano’s career absolutely obliterates his.
The only problem is that Ronaldo is simply not that type of footballer, not even at his peak.
Like I said before up to the point where Messi and Ronaldo started to dominate the discussion about who is the best in the world. Cruyff was widely regarded as being one of the top players of all time, usually included in the 3 with Pele and Maradona.
I don't think Cruyff is the best player ever. Messi for me is probably the best player ever. But, Cruyff can be in the conversation, as these things are entirely subjective and down to personal choices. So, if someone were to say to me, "I think Cruyff is the best player ever". I wouldn't start introducing qualifiers like "he never scored or assisted in the knockout stages of the world cup" to try and remove him from consideration.
Agreed
I've already answered.
Im not sure your second question has the impact you want it to when Pele went to the MLS in the 70s.
Im not really sure i see that massive difference. Ronnie has 140 goals and 41 assists in 183 apps. Messi has 129 goals and 40 assists in in 163 apps. Messi has a better g/g ratio as well as a goal pr. Minute ratio and an overall higher goal contribution pr. Match.
Considering that someone like Messi has individually performed incredibly well in the cl and the only reason why Ronaldo has more goals is that he has played around 150 90 minutes worth of games more than Messi overall in their careers.
He's done this and still won WC best player twice and won gold once and silver once.
I think Ronaldo deserves his Mr. CL Moniker but its on fine margins at the end of day.
And when we had the European cup, you cant accuse Cryuff, Müller and Beckenbauer for not showing up at the WC.
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Of course it is. Of course it is.
I'm bowing out of this conversation because I'm not getting dragged into a Ronaldo v Messi type debate. That was never my original point, at no point have I really compared the two or others. All I said is Ronaldo is harshly judged nowadays. That's it.