Same here
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
You need to do some proper research. Multiple players have scored more goals than Ronaldo, and many have better GTG ratios. And the very fact you talk about 'top leagues' just shows how you've been deceived. What was the definition of a top league in 1980? In 1960? In 1930? Is it the same leagues that we talk about being top leagues today?
Siu cant be buy
Cristiano is literally the top goal scorer or all time: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_footballers_with_500_or_more_goals
The football quality was more equally distributed back then and top leagues were nowhere the same quality as they are now.
He is not. Please do some proper research and stop using Wikipedia.
But the article is heavily referenced with sources..... what are your unofficial sources? Romario and Pele counting their own goals?
"I can't answer this for you, but it's a fact, do you own research"
I know that you probably dislike him cause he scored 20 goals against you, but that doesn’t change the hard fact that he is the top goal scorer in the history of football.
Cristiano is one of the greatest footballers to ever play the game.
The amount of bitterness towards him on redcafe is unbelievable, especially now that time has proven he was right about everything when leaving.
And yes, he is the top goalscorer of all time. With each and every goal having a solid existence proof.
The amount of bitterness towards him on redcafe is unbelievable, especially now that time has proven he was right about everything when leaving.
And yes, he is the top goalscorer of all time. With each and every goal having a solid existence proof.
You both made the mistake of arguing with a Barcelona fan. They don't accept facts that's against their club and the cult of Messi.
If you actually think that, you've just bought into media hype.
Any chance you could name these other players?
It is literally not a fact
Calling him „not a top 5 footballer of all-time“ is hardly „bitterness“.
Of course it is. I know you hate the guy, but Ronaldo is the current all time top scorer - like it or not. 916 official goals, Messi is second with 850.
If only there was some way to verify it... it's not like we have any organizations that spend all of their time researching football statistics.
These are only for verified goals in official games (which is why Pelé is so low, for example). Last updated on July 14, 2024.
Cristiano has scored enough that if you add a few more parameters he'd end up at the top of that list. But the cold hard fact is that he isn't "the top goal scorer in the history of football".
Edit: do I think that Cristiano's goals were scored in a more competitive environment than Helmchen's or Bican's? Absolutely. Is he a better player than them? Even though I haven't seen them play, most certainly yes. But it doesn't make your non-fact a fact.
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I don't hate him, not at all. But it is not a fact, Bican and Pelé for instance could claim the same record for themselves. In the end, it is up to the question which matches you count and which you don't count.
Do you understand that Wikipedia pages can be written and edited by anyone? That page is not the overall findings/conclusion of a body that collects football statistics professionally, and the bodies that actually do, differ on who exactly has scored what. That's the first reason why is wrong to just parrot the PR crap that 'Ronaldo has scored the most goals in history.'
The second reason why it is wrong pertains to the comment that you made here, perhaps flippantly, about Pele and Romario 'counting their own goals'. This is more social media BS. Actually, Pele didn't 'count his own goals'. They were counted by the Guiness Book of Records, who determined that he had scored 1279 goals. That is 363 more than Ronaldo's current tally.
Further, Pele reached the haloed tally of 1000 goals before he turned 30 (which is why it is hilarious to me to see Ronaldo huffing and puffing in the early 900s at age 40).
The thousandth goal was scored at the Maracana and was witnessed by 80,000 people. All the newspapers reported on it. He was given a shirt saying '1000' on it, which he wore whilst he did his 20 minute lap of honour, as the crowd celebrated wildly.
Now what you're saying to me, is that none of this actually happened, and that Ronaldo has actually scored more goals than Pele. All because people now don't understand that football changes, and the way we view certain things now (i.e. the 'official goals' nonsense) is not how we viewed them 50 or 60 years ago.
Aren’t for the first three some of the goals including friendly matches, or goals in city leagues and other amateur leagues? Basically, not comparable to offici goals. If we count Cristiano’a goals in FIFA or Pro Evolution Soccer too, I guess he will surpass them.If only there was some way to verify it... it's not like we have any organizations that spend all of their time researching football statistics.
These are only for verified goals in official games (which is why Pelé is so low, for example). Last updated on July 14, 2024.
Cristiano has scored enough that if you add a few more parameters he'd end up at the top of that list. But the cold hard fact is that he isn't "the top goal scorer in the history of football".
Edit: do I think that Cristiano's goals were scored in a more competitive environment than Helmchen's or Bican's? Absolutely. Is he a better player than them? Even though I haven't seen them play, most certainly yes. But it doesn't make your non-fact a fact.
I think Pelé was widely considered the top goal scorer of all time, until Cristiano passed his record. IFFHS has Ronaldo on top, and recently Messi surpassed Pelé too.
Yes, those are not "official" goals. People can disagree all they want, but we can only go with what is considered "official". Even so, if Ronaldo ends up hitting 1000 he's going to top the IFFHS list as well at some point, making all this moot.
Quite frankly I rate Puskas official record of goals the most admirable among all of them, more given the sort of player he was and his ratio.
PD1: This "debate" resurges time and again and everytime it's the same stuff being said time and again.
PD2: CR offical record it's not up to discussion and who knows he might even top the chart.
PD3: The greatest goalscorer seen as the one who scored more official goals it's one thing, the better finisher it's closer to be part of another subject.
PD4: Bringing the "I don't think he is the Goat" in his own thread, without a previous statement boasting such thing, it's quite a bit tocapelotas.
PD5: For me, Cris has become to silly with his declarations, I thought at one point that he would diminish those, yet specially that one about Global World Socceer being Honest, just goes beyond stupid. Plus he just can't stop digging on others and later he gets triggered when other players or fans go after him. Come on man, you are fecking 40, it's getting more annoying than when he was young really fighting and feeding with anything.
PD1: This "debate" resurges time and again and everytime it's the same stuff being said time and again.
PD2: CR offical record it's not up to discussion and who knows he might even top the chart.
PD3: The greatest goalscorer seen as the one who scored more official goals it's one thing, the better finisher it's closer to be part of another subject.
PD4: Bringing the "I don't think he is the Goat" in his own thread, without a previous statement boasting such thing, it's quite a bit tocapelotas.
PD5: For me, Cris has become to silly with his declarations, I thought at one point that he would diminish those, yet specially that one about Global World Socceer being Honest, just goes beyond stupid. Plus he just can't stop digging on others and later he gets triggered when other players or fans go after him. Come on man, you are fecking 40, it's getting more annoying than when he was young really fighting and feeding with anything.
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Tap in or penalty merchant maybe but he sure finds or founds himself in those positions and if you think its easy? Then nobody has told our strikers because they are still studying on "scoring for dummies 101"
'Official' only means that the matchw as organized by a football association. The problem is that in the early days of football, goals in official matches weren't counted. Some sources claim that Bican scored over 5000 goals during his career so chances that he scored more than Cristiano in 'official matches'. Which means the fact isn't 'Cristiano scored the most goals in official matches' but at best 'Cristiano scored the most goals in official matches since goals were documented'.
Now, obviously Bican didn't score 5000 goals in competitive matches but probably the lion share of those against subpar opposition but this pretty much highlights why those comparisons are complete bollocks. Why should Cristiano's goals in the Saudi league have any meaning when the league is so far away from being elite? Or goals against Lithuania, San Marino or whatever? What makes them more 'legit' than Pelé's 'friendly goals' against the very best European teams who were motivated like crazy in their matches against Santos?
I see the Messi fanboys are still camped in this thread, this is despite how irrelevant Ronaldo is in football these days. What will they do when he retires?
I think it's nice if Cristiano can say "I top the charts"... but that's it. It's a metric that.... I mean, I don't think anyone going to define the best player ever by the amount of goals someone has scored.
I can think of 50 reasons why I followed every game this man has played. None of them were ever "I'm watching what's going to be football's highest goalscorer".
- How he rose in United and created plays in such a fantastic manner
- How he combined creating plays and finishing plays in United and first half of Madrid
- The qualitfy of the free kicks he scores
- His technique, off the ball movement, ability to ditch defenders inside the box
- His magical moments in the Champions League
- His magical moments with our national team
- Etc
Even today I'll watch his Al-Nassr games so I can keep enjoying his footwork, link up play in counter attacks, his technique, his shooting, his body positioning. Etc, etc. Not to see a number rise slowly.
He'll achieve whatever he wants to achieve, because whatever Ronaldo has in terms of qualities, his mind has always been his greatest attribute. He put in his mind he wanted to be the best, and regardless of where each one of us ranks him, it's very safe to say he's going to go down as one of the most special players in football so far. If he wants to achieve 1000, fine, if he doesn't want to, I don't really care as a fan. There's an infinity of world class moments from him to remember that are way cooler than that.
I can think of 50 reasons why I followed every game this man has played. None of them were ever "I'm watching what's going to be football's highest goalscorer".
- How he rose in United and created plays in such a fantastic manner
- How he combined creating plays and finishing plays in United and first half of Madrid
- The qualitfy of the free kicks he scores
- His technique, off the ball movement, ability to ditch defenders inside the box
- His magical moments in the Champions League
- His magical moments with our national team
- Etc
Even today I'll watch his Al-Nassr games so I can keep enjoying his footwork, link up play in counter attacks, his technique, his shooting, his body positioning. Etc, etc. Not to see a number rise slowly.
He'll achieve whatever he wants to achieve, because whatever Ronaldo has in terms of qualities, his mind has always been his greatest attribute. He put in his mind he wanted to be the best, and regardless of where each one of us ranks him, it's very safe to say he's going to go down as one of the most special players in football so far. If he wants to achieve 1000, fine, if he doesn't want to, I don't really care as a fan. There's an infinity of world class moments from him to remember that are way cooler than that.
You got to draw the line somewhere. How do you document those "+" goals by Bican and Helmchen?
Probably keep posting in the threads about whatever venture Ronaldo is up to.
The counter part it's also silly, some of the remarks regarding Pele's achivements (and prior to him Erico, Sastre, Moreno, Di Stefano, Leonidas, etc) and how many stuff from those days could reach epic proportions was also a trademark of those periods, mostly because it was more than anything written media and later the first televized WCs encounters with the magic involved there that never actually lost its romanticism.
To simply give CR and those that still are above him the bigger ammount of official goals it's quite simple and not really necessary to enter into muddy waters, every coin has two sides.
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Yeah, those are goals in official games. Not all of them are of an equal importance but none can be equated to goals in FIFA and PES. Not all of Cristiano's goals are of the same importance either but you don't seem to exclude his goals in Saudi league or against the likes of Luxembourg or Faroe Islands.
included:
- all leagues (incl. regional-, reserve-, amateur-)
- national and international cups
- all selections: A, B, Ol, U, league, armee, senior, regional, city, etc. - against the same selections
- other official tournaments
- some traditional international tournaments (e.g. Intertoto since 1961, Alpencup etc.)
- several traditional national tournaments and games (organized by the football union),
e.g. pre-season tournaments in Hungary (1930th-1970th), Germany (since 1990th),
winter tournament in Prague (1940th, always with Slavia and Sparta),
summer war tournaments, all-star games (MLS, South Korea, Japan),
FIFA/UEFA sel. and others
- all cancelled games
- all leagues (incl. regional-, reserve-, amateur-)
- national and international cups
- all selections: A, B, Ol, U, league, armee, senior, regional, city, etc. - against the same selections
- other official tournaments
- some traditional international tournaments (e.g. Intertoto since 1961, Alpencup etc.)
- several traditional national tournaments and games (organized by the football union),
e.g. pre-season tournaments in Hungary (1930th-1970th), Germany (since 1990th),
winter tournament in Prague (1940th, always with Slavia and Sparta),
summer war tournaments, all-star games (MLS, South Korea, Japan),
FIFA/UEFA sel. and others
- all cancelled games
Non-official numbers are vastly different (and way less relevant, that's why I didn't include them):
The "+" goals do not get counted into the number. They've played more official games and, quite likely, scored way more official goals but the records just aren't there so we can't estimate, not in the lists like that. All of those goals that are included in this number are accounted for in historical sources.
You lot are way too invested in proving that the non-factual fact is, indeed, a fact, for whatever reason despite no one arguing that what Bican or Helmchen did was more impressive than Cristiano. It wasn't, he was a better player and a better goalscorer than all of those who are above him and most of those who are below him. Just stop trying to adjust the numbers to suit your narrative.
Same. And he has hundreds of assists as well.
I agree that digging on his Goat or not status in this, his very own thread, without any prior elaboration, or post to triger such reaction, feels a bit silly...yet through the years the ones that looked to have more of toxic tendency in classic and the new social media to fuel the controversy/antagonism were mostly located in the Cris camp, more when the man himself didi a major job about it and still does.
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Yeah, those are goals in official games. Not all of them are of an equal importance but none can be equated to goals in FIFA and PES. Not all of Cristiano's goals are of the same importance either but you don't seem to exclude his goals in Saudi league or against the likes of Luxembourg or Faroe Islands.
included:
- all leagues (incl. regional-, reserve-, amateur-)
- national and international cups
- all selections: A, B, Ol, U, league, armee, senior, regional, city, etc. - against the same selections
- other official tournaments
- some traditional international tournaments (e.g. Intertoto since 1961, Alpencup etc.)
- several traditional national tournaments and games (organized by the football union),
e.g. pre-season tournaments in Hungary (1930th-1970th), Germany (since 1990th),
winter tournament in Prague (1940th, always with Slavia and Sparta),
summer war tournaments, all-star games (MLS, South Korea, Japan),
FIFA/UEFA sel. and others
- all cancelled games
Non-official numbers are vastly different (and way less relevant, that's why I didn't include them):
The "+" goals do not get counted into the number. They've played more official games and, quite likely, scored way more official goals but the records just aren't there so we can't estimate, not in the lists like that. All of those goals that are included in this number are accounted for in historical sources.
You lot are way too invested in proving that the non-factual fact is, indeed, a fact, for whatever reason despite no one arguing that what Bican or Helmchen did was more impressive than Cristiano. It wasn't, he was a better player and a better goalscorer than all of those who are above him and most of those who are below him. Just stop trying to adjust the numbers to suit your narrative.
Same. And he has hundreds of assists as well.
He was some player, he could play many roles, he was a lethal goalscorer and had a very long carreer.
At the same time I always deemed the Goat thing quite silly, I preffer as much to name and not few times without any particular order, the players we like the most from certain periods, than someone "taking care" of the whole history of the game and beyond.
Do you know what "referenced by sources" means? Casually edit that page to say Wayne Rooney is the top goalscorer because we're including street goals and see what happens. There's even a list on that very page that don't have Ronaldo as number 1 - again, which has a source/s for it's reasoning. Your belief that wiki can be altered and edited by anyone is true... but that edit sticking in any sense, unless it's a totally trivial page, isn't going to last long.
I've been hearing about Romario/Pele "counting their own goals" joke since the 90's and Romario chasing the 1000. So hardly "social media BS". It's just always been about since stats didn't just with the internet you know? And the numbers for both have never made sense in an "official" way for a lot of people. Let's not worry about it too much. Saudi goals are even less official than any those 2 scored anyway.
How can one side be silly and one toxic when their behaviour is largely the same?
I've never said just one side. There are tons of silly feckers from both "sides". Read again.
What I meant it's that starting from the player himself, that likes to dig into controversial declarations. To the Toxic Spanish media that actually took everything to the stratosphere and big influencers like Speed, or media fellas playing the "agressive non verbal restrictions approach" to trash al enano and make a living of it, the toxicy looked to be more focus on the Cris side.
On the other hand, the sugar coated dick riding of some of the media regarding Messi, can get quite fecking annoying too.
I wasn't talking that much about Forums, were silly remarks from posters are at the order of the day, but more related to the Chiringuitos, Alvaro Morales, Libermans, Ariepillos, Speeds out there with the addition of the man himself liking to rattle the kettle quite frequently.
Ah sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were referring mainly to this thread. I can't say I'm too familiar with the Spanish media so I will trust you on this
Largely people with little knowledge on the subject. You can't get much more 'official' than a Guiness World Record. Why did they say he scored 1279 goals if it was all made up/fudged? Do they not have researchers? Do they just give people records on the basis of 'Trust me, bro, I did it?'
Nevertheless, I agree with the last thing you said re the Saudi goals.
He's in the top 2 with Messi. Some will put Messi above him, others will prefer Ronaldo.
I personally consider him the best player I have ever seen, and according to FIFA, he has officially scored more goals than anyone else.
And I know you keep referring to the Guinness World Record as the absolute official source of facts, so I assume that means you agree with their post recognising him as the greatest player of all time?
https://www.instagram.com/coretvnews/p/C_kokdhIrfK/
Highly debatable that he’s top 2/3 GOAT, IMO.
Hilarious post, thanks for the chuckle this morning. I'm not quite sure that Instagram post means what you would like to think it means
Nor did I anywhere say that Guiness is the 'absolute official source of facts'; I mentioned them in order to highlight the discrepancy between their contention that Pele scored 1279 goals as a world record, and the more modern, 'goalpost-moving' notion that he didn't.
You're entitled to your opinion. To me, CR's definitely not top 3 and probably not top 5. No one who has never scored or assisted a goal in the knockout rounds of the World Cup (football's most important competition by far) can possibly be the greatest player of all time. That fact alone completely disqualifies him from being the greatest.
Here's the link to Pele's most career goals record.
https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/most-career-goals-(football)