Difficult one. He's definitely top ten but I'm not sure where I'd put him because, IMO, he was never the same after his knees blew up, and he was only in his early 20s when that happened. So without that injury, he was trending towards being arguably the best ever. As it is, I'm not sure we saw the best of him for long enough. Even the success with Real Madrid and Brazil after the injury didn't see performances from him that were anything like his younger self.
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
I think its more him being still adequate at a major international tournament at 39 playing in a squad strong enough to win it. In fact Portugal or Germany are my favourites to win it atm.
Maybe others have classified it as a great performance, but I'm pretty sure I didn't use that word in the very same post you quoted.
Pepe was brilliant, agreed. But then again I've seen a bunch of people dismissing his game because "dur dur it was against Turkey".
What I meant to say in a broader way, is that both don't seem out of place in this squad despite their age.
I thought he was generally OK throughout. He didn't stink out the place like he has done in the past.
When he plays for his club the "he played well" routine may wash, but this is the Euros, we are all watching the matches, there's no use lying. He wasn't as inadequate as I expected him to be, but that's about it.
How many better striker than Ronaldo on this Euro so far? 'Arry Kane? Morata? Depay? Giroud?
His life style and lack of professionalism are the exactly the same as Ronaldinho. He will go downhill in his mid 20 just like Ronaldinho.
Do you think Ronaldo should be starting currently? I hear a lot of talk that he holds them back and will be one of the reasons they don’t win it.
At least We would have seen him reach his peak before it all goes downhill.
Not sure tbh. They are short in that position anyway. He was definitely terrible in the WC but he came in from a terrible season and atmosphere. I think scoring for fun in Saudi and playing at a lower intensity there definitely helps out his form for the NT. Someone of his caliber and experience never forgets what the highest lvl is when called upon.
He has to perform if he wants to play in the next world cup. Looked like he has more than 2 years in him.
He is doing ok, a solid 7 performance in the tournament so far. Nothing to brag about but he isn't creating problems for Portugal either as a lot of people were assuming.
That's just not true.
Well, he was a fantastic player but in comparison is Maradona....
I do get what you're saying with your final sentence, I guess, it's a bit different when the talk is about him, than when people talk about Messi, Maradona, Pele, etc. I don't think his long career has helped him in that, but I do think there was a time when he played he brought that immense joy only special players can bring, namely in his United days and first seasons at Madrid. But I do get your point, and it does make some sense.
Good game from him today, I felt. Could've had another, too.
He's still a little devil sometimes, tooHe dropped the defender on the floor, but it's not just that - excellent cross afterwards.
I will always stand by him not playing as a 9, no matter the age. I still think it's a waste. I don't think he should always stick to the left either, but it could be fluid like in 2007-08 Man Utd, even looking at today, he did fine even on the right as shown above. All his best actions in this game, except for one, came from positions on the field that were not central. His assist in the 3rd goal, he's drifted to the right before making the run - Bruno is taking the central position at that moment. It's not coincidence. Look at how he played, where he played, and how Portugal played today - then compare to the first game against Czechia, where he was a static 9 and we were just bombing crosses to the box to little effectiveness.
There definitely was that time. He had a spell where he gave fans that gasp of anticipation when he received the ball that only the special players can generate. It would be interesting to see how his career would have developed if he did not prioritize numbers. I am not saying it would have been better at all but it's curious if he would have reached some legendary status if he had "normal" numbers or if he would have been considered at the level of a more consistent Bale; a generational talent but of course nowhere near all time greats discussions.
The impression I get from the older generations who watched the game in the '60 and '70s is full of admiration and eulogizing for his skills and how he could easily switch from the skillful goalscorer to the delicate playmaker in the same game. I don't even think lot of people from that generation knew that much about his stats. The lasting memory is his WC performances.
It's a great question and we will never know. I mean, the path he took has given him pretty much everything, apart from any purchase in the World Cup and the full respect of some purists, so it's hard to say that he made the wrong choice.
But in my eyes, I cant put someone right at the top who spent a large proportion of his career playing on the shoulder of the last defender and sniffing out penalty box finishes. Can't do it.
Clearly it's enough for millions of other people, but not for me.
Well that's clearly not true, Ronaldo scored all types of goals not only tap ins, whether it's with either foot or the head.
Edit : just seen the team you support, it all makes sense now.
Found Coleen Rooney's cafe account.
Yea I would say everything except what he probably most craved which is being the greatest footballer in the world. That was his target from a very early age and what he always aspired to be. There are of course fans who consider him that and there will always be but he knows himself that within the footballing fraternity, he is not held to that regard. Maybe the question is could he ever be held to that regard regardless of career path since he just was never born with whatever Messi and Maradona have so all in all, the best argument could be that his career path gave the best he could have ever conceivably achieved with what he was given which is of course still beyong 99.9% of all others.
There are loads of examples of people in football, high up ones, who never played with or managed him, who consider him better. Football isn't an aesthetic practice for most people in football. It's who wins and who can help you win the most or in the most effective and reliable way. I'd say Ronaldo works in any team in the world and Messi in far less, though he'd still be incredible in any team because hes Messi. I'd still prefer Messi but you make it sound like because he's nicer to watch that's it for most people, fans sure, me included in that, people in football I dont think nearly as much consider that so important as we do
Whether some consider him this or that has no relevance to what I am saying. I am not sure what your point is but if you think that Cristiano Ronaldo holds the same status within the football fraternity as Messi, Maradona or Pele. I think we can just agree to disagree here because I did not think that was even up for debate at this point.
Not that it's even the point, but I think people in football appreciate and admire aesthetics and the "how" more than fans. They work in the field and understand more than anybody that the most difficult thing in the world is to win with style. Hence the respect someone like Sacchi or Michels get despite winning relatively less than many others. People within any field have a higher appreciation for their "gifted" colleagues more than fans who are detached enough from the craft and are more invested in the emotional bragging rights which makes them create all sorts of mental gymnastics to win arguments.
Agreed
It's not just about aesthetics; being a great passer, being a great dribbler, these are all practical things that can help a team win.
Mini wall of text? Feel free to ignore. But discussion has been good in the last 2 pages and with good vibes, so
I always thought Cristiano was aesthetic after his early start in Man Utd, when it felt like his body was all over the place, he was improvising things on the back of lack of consistency in his play style, he was erratic with his own dribbling, etc. After that period, I thought he was, but he's not Messi style, he's not Federer style. These 2 seem(ed) like, well, magicians on the ball, the kind of magic that awes any football or tennis fan, including myself. I still feel Cristiano is aesthetic right now, even at this point. Maybe it's just I take attention to so many details in what he does, but I find him to be that pleasing as well, just not in our usual idea of what it means to be have that super pleasing style of play.
Like, Messi is the player that at a macro, zoomed out level, you're watching from the main wide TV camera, and immediately you think that he's just abnormal, not only is he so good, it's ridiculously pleasing to watch his body move. If you zoom in with Messi and then watch *very closely* in replays, then oof, it's just as good as zoomed out. The guy's got this amazing technique, nearly unnmatched by anyone.
With Cristiano, as I said above, I felt like he also was very aesthetic in the first half of his career, even at a zoomed out level, but that did fade away as he played closer and closer to goal. I absolutely get why someone who would've watched him in the last 10 years would think he's not.
I guess for me, the devil is in the details. His technique is extraordinary even at this age. Go back and take a look at his United goals 2 years ago. It kinda all glues together maybe not watching the goal, but in the slow mo replay. Everything he's doing is so extremely mechanized, so maxed out. Every step he takes, his footwork, the guy's got to have better split-stepping than many pro Tennis players, his body positioning, his anticipation, his hanging in the air for headers, his goddamn volleys all they encompass to get right. His backheel passes. When you join all the details together, he's the most aesthetic striker I can currently watch, in my opinion. His goal against Tottenham in 2021, away, is nothing short of what I'd call aesthethics turned up to the max. His ridiculous header against Man Uts with Real Madrid. Etc, etc. It's so fecking good to watch over and over again. His movements are so assertive, the hits are so clean, it makes many of his goals look fantastic and never get old.
It's just different from Messi. And not as easy to see. And I guess I'm in the minority, I can appreciate him so much in the finer details probably cause it's 20 years of repetition and watching him do it over and over again.
I think between my 2 most aesthetic forwards I've seen, Ronaldinho and Messi, I'd probably pick Messi.
I always thought Cristiano was aesthetic after his early start in Man Utd, when it felt like his body was all over the place, he was improvising things on the back of lack of consistency in his play style, he was erratic with his own dribbling, etc. After that period, I thought he was, but he's not Messi style, he's not Federer style. These 2 seem(ed) like, well, magicians on the ball, the kind of magic that awes any football or tennis fan, including myself. I still feel Cristiano is aesthetic right now, even at this point. Maybe it's just I take attention to so many details in what he does, but I find him to be that pleasing as well, just not in our usual idea of what it means to be have that super pleasing style of play.
Like, Messi is the player that at a macro, zoomed out level, you're watching from the main wide TV camera, and immediately you think that he's just abnormal, not only is he so good, it's ridiculously pleasing to watch his body move. If you zoom in with Messi and then watch *very closely* in replays, then oof, it's just as good as zoomed out. The guy's got this amazing technique, nearly unnmatched by anyone.
With Cristiano, as I said above, I felt like he also was very aesthetic in the first half of his career, even at a zoomed out level, but that did fade away as he played closer and closer to goal. I absolutely get why someone who would've watched him in the last 10 years would think he's not.
I guess for me, the devil is in the details. His technique is extraordinary even at this age. Go back and take a look at his United goals 2 years ago. It kinda all glues together maybe not watching the goal, but in the slow mo replay. Everything he's doing is so extremely mechanized, so maxed out. Every step he takes, his footwork, the guy's got to have better split-stepping than many pro Tennis players, his body positioning, his anticipation, his hanging in the air for headers, his goddamn volleys all they encompass to get right. His backheel passes. When you join all the details together, he's the most aesthetic striker I can currently watch, in my opinion. His goal against Tottenham in 2021, away, is nothing short of what I'd call aesthethics turned up to the max. His ridiculous header against Man Uts with Real Madrid. Etc, etc. It's so fecking good to watch over and over again. His movements are so assertive, the hits are so clean, it makes many of his goals look fantastic and never get old.
It's just different from Messi. And not as easy to see. And I guess I'm in the minority, I can appreciate him so much in the finer details probably cause it's 20 years of repetition and watching him do it over and over again.
I think between my 2 most aesthetic forwards I've seen, Ronaldinho and Messi, I'd probably pick Messi.
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Yeah that’s fair enough. thanks for the answer.
He's been fine so far for Portugal. He's not knackered from a long, hard club season in Europe and playing in Saudi keeps him ticking over for the big tournaments. There's an interesting article by Barney Ronay in the Guardian about how his fame, wealth and media reach are overshadowing football itself and how the pitch invasions for selfies are a symptom of this. It really is all about Ronaldo, which is how he likes it.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ll-deal-with-the-magnificent-monster-it-built
Too famous to play football? Ronaldo has outgrown the sport that made him
Too famous to play football? Ronaldo has outgrown the sport that made him
I didn't mean it in such a black and white way, the social media stuff was more related to the inmense ammount of yellow press and agendas behind certain narratives, that work both ways, they can fuel up somebody and absolutely unfarily trash a player in a way we haven't witness before and many times just because that certain player in some way for isntance "represents" certain club or even league. The best example is the media as a whole with the Messi vs Cristiano thing, but this doesn't make these two lesser players by any means, as fantastic as many of the players you've mentioend were, there is a huge quote of romaticim also involved, the globalized TV in the 90's, the "birth" of true marketing, etc...and the football in the future was more like a "joke" of what will come, sadly I don't think that more tech oriented version of us and the game itself will arrive God knows when.
On the past players topic, I'm an old fart in fact I know lots of players being from SA that many here won't even have a clue, so I have a very good grasp of what normally people tend to take as facts while it's more due to exposure, narratives, and unfair treatmente of former historical players but at teh same time I'm not an extremely nostalgic fella, I do believe there have been extraordinary to genius players on every period of the game and I we have to respect them in their very own periods.
Anyway nowadays, and I mean NOW, we are for me in a transition period, so that's why we don't have as many established big names as not that long ago, it happens from time to time as it happens that certain roles and characteristics are more predominnat in diff eras or periods.
Aesthetics of course talks about a more refine technique, but at the same time, I do not think for me what separates Messi from Cris in the talent department it's just that, of one being more stiff and the other looking more effortkless. Like BTW I do not thing that malabarism or lots of trickery speaks all the time of being a better player or doing the most difficult thing in the pitch in a very high technical level (of course always in these cases in combination with a very very sharp mind in terms of football).
Really such an odd individual, whole team is rotated except him at 39 which suggests that he asked/demanded to play a dead rubber game to boost his stats. Then reacting like a spoilt child when he was substituted because he didn’t get to stat pad against what he probably thought was easy fodder. Completely unnatural reaction to a game where Portugal are already guaranteed to top the group where he never should have started in the first place.
There is an I in equipe
Exactly. But you'll have the usual lot in here defending him in a while though!
On behalf of grown ups, let's hate this child together.
Mardarse.
He knows he doesn’t score in knockout games. Had to try to get those goals early.
You're so vain
You probably think this tournament is about you
You're so vain (you're so vain)
I bet you think Portugal in the Euros is about you
Don't you don't you
You probably think this tournament is about you
You're so vain (you're so vain)
I bet you think Portugal in the Euros is about you
Don't you don't you
Ronaldo is predictably having a harder time scoring against capable teams than against the likes of Liechtenstein and Gibraltar in the qualifiers.
cant wait when this wanker finally finish playing, and this embarassing media and influencers stop creaming about his already subpar skills and his great "fitness". Shame he makes Portugal unsupportable. They would be my second team.