Well tbf isnt that because the greatest footballers make football entertaining and an artform which in turn reminds us of the highs of the sport. Its only natural in debating the quality of such players to use modern data and stats to back a point of view.
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
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Well tbf isnt that because the greatest footballers make football entertaining and an artform which in turn reminds us of the highs of the sport. Its only natural in debating the quality of such players to use modern data and stats to back a point of view.
I honestly couldn’t give much of a shite about footballers at clubs I don’t support. I’ll watch a few matches each season which don’t feature United (as well as international tournaments) but the idea of slavishly following every detail of the career of an individual footballer at a different club will never not be weird to me.
I personally feel some players are too good to miss out on ie all time greats. With the greatest, you are watching history. Anyway that's my view.
The weirdo stuff is like "Messi is so humble, he cleans his own boots!"
"Ronaldo has the heart of a lion and i love him like my son".
Following a player sometimes makes more sense than a club. A player if you like how they play and their personality usually you can like them for life but you don't always get to choose the players who play for your club, and if they're cnts or rubbish to watch, you might not like the club for a bit but you can always follow the player you like wherever they go.
You have no idea how alien this concept is to me (and, I presume, to basically every football fan in Britain/Ireland?)
People have a lot of prejudice here. They have already made up their mind and will never change it regardless of how this guy plays.
He is not your typical 39 year old and was actually more mobile than Haaland, Kane yesterday. On another day he would have had 2-3 goals. (Keeper saved the first one well, header that hit the defender and the offside one that hit the post)
He is still good enough guys. Stop hating on the player and see the game before commenting.
He is not your typical 39 year old and was actually more mobile than Haaland, Kane yesterday. On another day he would have had 2-3 goals. (Keeper saved the first one well, header that hit the defender and the offside one that hit the post)
He is still good enough guys. Stop hating on the player and see the game before commenting.
Because you can be a football fan beyond just supporting your club and NT. It's a bit like how can Zidane admire Messi when he's only been his opponent as a player for the biggest rival and manager of that rival club.
Also its easier to watch footage of players more than ever. And social media makes it a thing.
Yes sticking by your club is a conservative idea but I understand the reasons more on why many of the new generation of fans follow players over clubs more. I'm talking about fans globally who don't have a local connection to their favourite European team.
Portugal have a very strong squad and they are in a really easy group. He'll bang in sime goals whether they win the thing or not.
I’m glad I’m old school club first then national couldn’t give a flying shit about players that don’t play for either
On a side note, liking Ronaldo (of all people) for his personality is even more alien to me than this whole player > club thing.
I feel like when Serie A was as huge as it was in the 1990's people did follow Gazza's career to some extent, and I certainly watched some more of Madrid's games than I might have because of Bale when he went so it's not entirely alien, but I certainly didn't care how they performed.
Oh, come on, we all know you come to the RedCafe just because it’s an easy place to build a high post count tally.
Yeah, that was always so feckin weird to me.
It's very weird but, in a way, makes sense I guess if you aren't going physically to watch games. Fans should really follow managers i.e. they like a style of football and personality rather than a club which essentially just takes your money (in ever increasing ways) and expects you to simply support them even if they sell to some state owner or leech who just drains the club.
The question is, are Portugal a better side without him in the XI? Answer is yes. That's the verdict across the football media in portugal. Portugal's best performance under Martinez came when Ronaldo was unavailable.
We know the previous National team manager was phasing him out. Roberto Martinez got the job because he agreed to keep Ronaldo on and in the first XI. Mendes and Ronaldo have alot of influence on Portuguese football.
As for yesterday, prime Ronaldo would have finished those chances. Playing in Saudi means he isn't as sharp as he would be playing in top flight European football.
I’d say it’s fairly ‘normal’ to have an interest in players that turn out for your national team, no matter where they play.
That’s an interesting point. In a way it’s strange that we’ve only got one manager obsessed weirdo on the caf. You’d think there would be more.
It depends on the player themselves and the contribution to the team. When Beckham left I always followed his career, I didn’t obsess over him by any means but always checked scores etc and watched the odd game he played in. But solely just following a player over a club is definitely weird, it has a life span so once he retires then you stop watching football and instead follow his commercials or movies?
This is an extraordinary time to waste on someone you do not like.
This baffles me. How can people not grasp the concept that a player can score goals and still be detrimental overall to a team. Rooney was the same at United near the end of his career. Scoring and assisting goals doesn't make you worth you place if the team plays better and scores more without you. If you score 30 goals a season for your club and they would have scored 50 without you spread over 3 other players then you are not part of the strongest team. Its a really simple concept and applies to Ronaldo.
Without Ronaldo yesterday I have a feeling that Portugal wouldn't have needed two massive mistakes to win the game. It would have been put to bed in the first half. Hes over the hill and his ego and arrogance is so massive that he couldn't care less about his team or country as long as he break records and continues to play.
Without Ronaldo yesterday I have a feeling that Portugal wouldn't have needed two massive mistakes to win the game. It would have been put to bed in the first half. Hes over the hill and his ego and arrogance is so massive that he couldn't care less about his team or country as long as he break records and continues to play.
It's the post Ronaldo/Messi fan. Obsessed with stats and all about g/a and chances created. They fail to understand that for players like Zidane, Scholes or Pirlo it wasn't just end product but the subtleties of the game. Knowing when to slow it down or speed it up, when and where to play a risky pass.
When people look back in history in 100 years now, they will see ronaldo with the most goals in history. Messi will be the best runner up and will not be remembered as fondly. Statistics matter
Stats, numbers and goal contributions definitely matter for attackers. Obsession with statistics in every aspect of the game isn't fun but then most top clubs with the best recruitment teams use data, stats and analytics these days to recruit players for every position. The clubs which don't use these modern methods much are the ones that sign the most big-money duds and flops and are the worst run big clubs on the planet.
You named 3 midfielders whose job is to do the stuff you mentioned in your post.
Messi and Ronaldo have zero defensive duties and have had entire teams built around them in order to get the best out of them for 95% of their careers. For players like that, goal contributions and statistics are definitely important.
The biggest match-winners/star players generally have great goalscoring ability or the ability to come up with goals in the biggest moments(like Zidane).
They matter if presented in the correct context. Of course attackers should have end product but the obsessions with using stats to argue who's better I would say got much worse post Messi/Ronaldo. Rashford is a good example of this. His stats have people saying he's elite and world class and if you judge him only off g/a perhaps he is but his overall footballing skillset/iq are still not of the highest quality.
Don't give the fanatics more ideas, we'll be getting heat maps comparing past and present, Scholes vs Bruno, Hojlund vs RvN, Rashford vs Giggs and so on
It's a direct consequence of social media and it's rise globally.
Social media gives people a common, easily accessible platform for Football discussions and debates. Most casuals and even a large number of Football fans don't watch most of the games. They have only seen the highlight clips and stats and numbers but they want to actively participate in these discussions.
This creates a huge market and buzz for 2 types of players: the ones with great stats and the ones with great clips and "tekkers"(like Neymar and Pogba). These 2 types of players get the most attention, hype, love and hate. The other types of players are largely ignored and overlooked.
A lot of Rashford's goodwill is because of PR and because he's a local lad. He's the face of Manchester United for the last few years and it's not easy for the club and the fanbase to admit that they were wrong about him and his potential as a player. The obsession with stats and numbers will only increase in the next few years. It's a bit similar to old-school fans rating players blindly based on team trophies ignoring the context and actual individual ability of the players. The obsession with stats might be annoying but nothing annoys me more than people rating players solely based on collective team trophies!
So I guess Batistuta is more fondly remembered than Maradona?Are you one of those who considered RVN being better than Henry? Just curious
Are you one of those who considered RVN better than Henry? Just curious
Maradona had more career goals than Bati. And RVN was better than Henry and definitely didn't cheat as much !
Agree with most of what you're saying. Fantasy football/gambling probably play a part too.
It's not weird at all. If that player happens to be the greatest footballer ever (which Cristiano Ronaldo is clearly not, just for the sake of clarity), then watching them a lot is a joy. I think it's more odd, in this age of blanket television coverage, to just slavishly follow a club and never watch any other team. Odd if you really love the game, that is.
Ok maybe I was wrong using maradona/Bati (didnt look up the stats but i trust you are right), but RVN better than Henry? Really? Seriously?
If statistics matter, does it also matter than Messi has about 100 more assists in his career, which also brings his total goal contributions well above Ronaldo's? Or simply that he ha a better goals/games ratio? Does 8 vs. 5 Balon d'Or's matter? 1 vs. 0 World Cup wins?
What personality?
Oh he has a petulant narcissistic personality but is unintentionally funny sometimes. Messi has no personality really. Or at least doesn't show much of it.
It is not a lie, if you believe it.
I never compared his personality to Messi.
But Messi is more down to earth clearly, doesn't have narcissism, vanity and an inferiority complex though.
Many players have scored more goals than Maradona who can't hold a candle to him.
Maradona vs Pele would never have been a thing if it was only stats + trophies
They will see as that Messi outscored Ronaldo in European leagues+UCL total despite playing 100 less games.
Haaland has had a lot of criticism saying just that though.
But he's very far from his peak. He would probably struggle to get into a bottom EPL team if suddenly somehow he would sign for such a squad (which would be a much more dignified way to end his career).