You guys have seen nothing, remember the old (?) Messi vs Ronaldo containment thread? 
Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
And who are the other 38 years old clearly better than him out there? Since there’s a lot according to you, can you name at least 5?
Modric, Zlatan and Giggs for sure?
He’s much better than Giggs & Zlatan at the same age. Only arguable one is Modric.
I’m comparing their abilities at age 38 and beyond. For some reason you’re comparing their respective careers which has nothing to do with what I said. And surely the fact Zlatan was able to make the impact that he made while suffering injuries makes it all the more impressive? And sorry, but he played a significant role in one of Europe’s top leagues, that’s undeniable.
Actually you’ve got it wrong yourself, the all conquering Lukaku is leading has 10 goals in spite of that game being suspended. But with regards to CR7, nobody is going to be impressed by this other than yourself and the rest of his more dedicated followers. The fact is he plays for the strongest side in a terrible league (you’re obviously determined to gloss over that detail), and hasn’t done anything against noteworthy opposition in a long long time. It’s the same story on the international scene. Leading on goals when you’re fixtures consist of playing sides very few people even know exist, and international games against sides verging on part time level quality (especially Luxembourg and Leichtenstein) doesn’t really mean an awful lot.
He’s literally there on name and to pad his stats out against lowly opposition. The minute they hit the tournament and face a decent side, he’ll be a big problem for Portugal, just as he was at the World Cup when he did his best to sabotage them with his “me me me” routine. Here’s the reality, he’s scored 9 goals. These goals have come against Leichtenstein, Luxembourg, Bosnia, Iceland and Slovakia. A third of them are penalties (the same number of goals from open play as Scott McTominay), and Scotland and Norway (since you keep mentioning Haaland) aren’t anywhere near as strong as Portugal.
This is only outfield players right? Or are we including keepers like Edwin van der Sar?
Longevity should look at their total body of work. Doesn’t really make much sense if you just take isolated seasons out of context and use it for a basis of him somehow having better longevity, doesn’t make sense to me.
The only argument you have is him having an impact for Milan at 38 but still he wasn’t getting picked for his national team at that age when he unretired or barely making their bench while Ronaldo still starts and is a key player for his. The main thing in Zlatan’s favour was that Serie A is a better league than the Saudi pro league but there’s no real way of proving he was better at the same age. Ronaldo if not for the United move would be playing in Europe still.
Currently playing,
Luka Modrić
Better at the same age,
Thiago Silva
Paul Scholes
Ryan Giggs
Joaquín
All five of those were playing at the highest level at 38.
Who has been Ronaldo's toughest opponent since he turned 38?
Huh? I was addressing a post which claimed Ronaldo was the best 38 year old player ever. So why on earth would I look at their whole careers? It’s got nothing to do with the post I was addressing or the point I was making mate.
And let’s not rewrite history here, Zlatan played a significant role for Milan in an infinitely better league, he did fantastic for them. And surely you can’t have forgotten that Ronaldo’s agent hawked him out to every CL club going and there were no takers. If he’d gotten an offer from the likes of Milan he’d have been off there off there in a flash, but he didn’t; which is why he ended up doing something previously claimed he would never do, and went to the Middle East.
Let’s also be fair to Zlatan and acknowledge that he played for a poor Swedish side in his latter years. That also included him taking breaks from international football and overcoming a serious injury, he wasn’t looking to force himself in there just so he could score against part timers to chase down a goal record.
Not too many that were still competing at the highest level. Below is from memory, there's probably more that were just knocking about the place in other teams and leagues.
Giggs
Zlatan
Maldini
Modric
Thiago Silva
Zanetti
Costacurta
Totti
Vierchowod
Joaquin
Matthäus
If Ronaldo wants to prove he's still a top player then he needs to return to a top league and prove it.
He currently plays in a league made up of Saudi players and players at the end of their career. It's basically exhibition stuff.
Saying Ronaldo is still a top player is like saying that Tommy Fury is a top boxer in 2023.
He currently plays in a league made up of Saudi players and players at the end of their career. It's basically exhibition stuff.
Saying Ronaldo is still a top player is like saying that Tommy Fury is a top boxer in 2023.
I mean, yeh, playing in the stronger league is the only reason for you there, regardless of their actual performances. Everything is so easy if you simplify to that.
Fair enough but thats not the point isn't it? If its another 38 year old player outscoring almost everyone in Euro qualifiers, and at the same outscoring last season Ballon D'or winner and runners up in same league, the player would at least draw a few admiration. But because his name is Ronaldo, people would go "no, not going to admire him at that age or any age, feck him"
They are/were still useful in the leagues that were much stronger. Ronaldo wasn't even at 37.
There's a reason that Ronaldo is no longer playing in a top league though.
Who have been Ronaldo's toughest five opponents since he turned 38?
Who are the second and third highest goal scorers in Ronaldo's club league?
Another fact that is ignored when discussing his current performances is that he plays for one of the five clubs in Saudi that are owned by the government and has all the star players from the top leagues.
The gulf in quality between these state-owned clubs and the rest of the league is huge. It's like if the top 5 in the PL started playing in 5th-tier league.
The gulf in quality between these state-owned clubs and the rest of the league is huge. It's like if the top 5 in the PL started playing in 5th-tier league.
0 MVP award in 5 Euros + 5 Euros
0 goals in 8 WC knock-out games in 5 WCs
3 goals in 19 knock-out games in 5 WCs + 5 Euros
7 goals in 35 games against WC winning nations (France, Italy, England, Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina, Spain, Germany)
3 goals in 13 games against Americans (US, Canada, Mexico, Panama, Brazil, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay)
Why are you so against objective facts that fully exposes Ronaldo at the NT level? because of a smiley
Complains about a smiley fully ignoring all the facts that shows how he statpads against minnows, not a single useful comment on his statpadding, objective numbers, Ronaldo's uselessness in top tournaments..
You have anything to say about his WC, EC knock-out stats, his statpadding against minnows, his ghosting against top teams (WC winning nations)? or do you only contribute by complaining about those (who do their best to ignore your useless 1 sentence comments) to the thread?
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And you think that was based on performance? His reputation had taken a hit directly after 21/22 after the supposed toxicity he had in the changing rooms and the lack of pressing nonsense. Cause based on 21/22; he was playing at a higher level than Zlatan at 38. 3rd top scorer in the league with many match winning performances and as many goals as games in the CL. Ronaldo not finding a top club had a lot to do with other things beyond his footballing level at the time.
The difference is that giggs and scholes accepted being a rotation option. And they didnt get out of this world offers from Saudi. Im not even sure what Scholes did at 38. At that point Giggs mainly was a burden and he had a few years on the highest lvl compared to Scholes.
Edit: Scholes retired at 36
I think the number of minutes played matters in this discussion. Ronaldo is competing for the top spot. I honestly dont care what he does in semi retirement, but playing in a lesser league makes him more available for the national team.
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It needs to reopen. It’s the same few posters (or bots).You guys have seen nothing, remember the old (?) Messi vs Ronaldo containment thread?
wait are there still grown men arguing about who is better out or Ronaldo and Messi? Does it even matter?
Not a chance. The Madrid fans would've ran him out by now, they don't tolerate mediocrity.
Much better? The same guy that was rejected by every single team in Europe and forced to join the Saudi league? FFS I was hoping the fanboys had left with him.
I mean are you looking at the likes of Lukaku and being wowed by his numbers? You’re on a United forum, so are you wowed by McTominay putting up his numbers from midfield for a side like a Scotland? (same number of open play goals as Ronaldo) Or are you just infatuated with Ronaldo and therefore perplexed others don’t share in your awe and enthusiasm for a guy in a strong Portugal side scoring some tap ins and penalties against part time jobbers from countries most people couldn’t find on a map? That’s when he’s not off in Saudi scoring against sides nobody has ever heard of before.
It feels like the latter to me. I’d imagine the bloke attempting to paint Ronaldo’s exploits at 38 as being more impressive than Zlatan’ sat 40 will be like minded.
It''s really boring isn't it?! This argument should have been put to bed after Messi won the world cup but even then it was a bit tedious.
No, 'cause he didn't score a lot of goals against objectively shite opposition in a team set up for the purpose of making him score a lot of goals, etc.
Seriously, though.
I watched Giggs live at 38. He was still a surprisingly good footballer for his age at the top level.
Ronaldo is not a surprisingly good footballer for his age. And he doesn't play at the top level anymore.
But whatever.
My advice: Just stop engaging with certain posters on here. Let this thread be a shrine to their boy. They love the guy, fine - why not? Just leave them alone. If the Caf still exists 20 years from now, they'll be posting clips (or holograms) of him having a kickabout with his grandkids, claiming he's the best 58 year old ever.
Really delusional stuff, that was never happening. What were the two more CLs that he was winning? He’s not been near Ballon d’Or level for years.
I think arguments about his play, contribution, etc. are more credible than this kind of stuff.
Other factors such as profile, salary, etc. are hugely important here. We can see it with Messi, once he had to leave Barcelona he had very few 'serious' options that would allow him to keep his massive wages. 38-year-old Luka Modric isn't signing for any major team tomorrow on >15m wages.
Surely you realise that you framed the subsequent discussion by posting this?
Unless you think that people should only respond if they agree with you, it was obvious that people were going to bring up players that they consider to have been better at 38 years old. And it seems entirely reasonable to rate the likes of Giggs, Zanetti, Thiago Silva and Modric higher than Ronaldo given that they are/were still producing at the top level.
What Ronaldo is doing now is probably closer to the likes of Romario (top scorer in the Brazilian league aged 39) or Zico (apparently performing impressively in Japan aged 38+). It's still relatively rare and therefore somewhat impressive, and fun for their fans, but it's hardly some unparalled achievement. Now you could argue that Ronaldo still scoring for Portugal in international football elevates him above those two, but I think that falls quite flat after his very poor world Cup performance.
I love Modric but I wouldn't use him as an example right now. He's only the 15th most used player for Real Madrid this season.
I mean a big reason nobody in Europe wanted anything to do with him was because of how terrible he looked when he did play during the second half of 2022 but I guess that went over your head.
The salary and the fact that he's an annoying asshole were much bigger factors.
The idea that nobody wants to sign a player because they look terrible is incredibly wrong. Sevilla (reigning EL champions!) just signed Mariano Diaz from Real Madrid. He's averaged less than 400 minutes per season in the last five years and only scored 7 goals in that time. You think they wouldn't have preferred to sign Cristiano Ronaldo?
The idea that nobody wants to sign a player because they look terrible is incredibly wrong. Sevilla (reigning EL champions!) just signed Mariano Diaz from Real Madrid. He's averaged less than 400 minutes per season in the last five years and only scored 7 goals in that time. You think they wouldn't have preferred to sign Cristiano Ronaldo?
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That's fair. I thought he had turned 38 last season rather than this one. I still wouldn't put it past him to produce something special for you when the CL knockout stages roll around though!
But you can't separate those two things from the other thing, fact was Ronaldo was waiting and waiting for an offer from a CL club and it never came because he's more hassle than he's worth. He has a few eternal skills such as shooting and positioning which he will seemingly never lose, he has good natural fitness, but so many flaws to his overall game that weren't the case 6 or 7 years ago.
The circus and the impact he has on team becomes more detrimental than the output and role in the team he was giving in return. It will cost Portugal again against elite teams if they continue to start him in major championships and it would cost a team in a more elite league than the Saudi league, hence why he's not wanted by CL teams in Europe anymore.
Despite all the talent that's gone to Saudi, the only reason anyone really cares about that league is because of Ronaldo. The guys an absolute superstar, like him or loathe him.
Those are factors that can't be ignored.
If there was a CL level club that wanted Ronaldo, he would have never gone to the Saudi League. Nobody wanted him. His significant decline no longer meant his ego was warranted/something to accept from a club's hierarchy/manager.
Amazing record of longevity:
most international appearances
most international goals
most career appearances for an outfield player
most career goals
most international appearances
most international goals
most career appearances for an outfield player
most career goals
It's understandable that CL elite clubs may not want to sign those two players due to the high wage demands and potential risks. At the same time, they both deserve to demand starting every game and huge wages at any club. The position they are at is a very prestigious one, They hold most/every of the records in this game. It's the situation that you just don't want to sit around half of the season. They have to keep their star status somehow and keep increasing their records as much as they can, or until their body breaks down. I consider myself lucky to have witnessed those two GOATs, I fully respect whatever choices they make at this end of their careers.
Both Giggs and Scholes were playing at a time when the intensity was not as good as it is now. That probably gave their body a much better condition to recover. As soon as they faced Barca's intensity in some of those finals, it showed that they didn't have the legs anymore. Speaking all of it, Giggs was pretty good in his late 30s.