7
No but we were not in any way as fragile. We were limited but somewhat balanced and never got torn apart...now...we are completely open...Let’s see...quote me in few years...Ronaldo fuked up Brunos positioning which exposed the limitations in our two defensive midfielders.
You keep trotting out this four in nine stat, whilst completely ignoring both the champions League, his national team, and the fact that he's playing in an entirely dysfunctional team. You don't like him as a player, that's fine, but I think you'd be pretty hard pushed to find many that would prefer Vardy to him.
I find funny what some people talk about here (I do respect their views). Gasperini and Ranieri were both asked about Ronaldo being a problem and both answered in a way they find it ridiculous anyone would think he actually is, Ranieri even going all out saying he'd take him in a heartbeat. Meanwhile we're discussing here whether he's an elite goalscorer or not........
Some people don't actually know what they've got until it's gone. (ask RM, ask Juventus who is currently 7th in the league).
Well he did make an assist for VDB goal too, didn’t he? Its 9 goals and 2 assists in 13 games, with also a few barely offside goals being ruled out. Still by far our most productive player. I don’t think there any is player in the world right now who could score that many goals for us, under such disjointed system, to be very honest.It's not that I don't adore Ronaldo - I still do.
But ultimately I believe he is a tactical problem at the age of 37 being a player who starts every game and we try to get the best out of, in the worlds hardest league.
Things deteriorate. All things do. Ronaldo for me is good enough to be part of the squad but him being arguably the main man of Manchester United starting 11? Not for me.
He is old and playing a position he never played even in his prime.
If Zidane found his inability to play as a central striker by himself- why do people think Ole would do it or anyone else?
Ronaldo is still amazing for what he is doing for his age - but that is not the epitome of what we need as a striker at United, just because he is doing well for his age doesn't mean ita necessarily good for us - wrong positioning, no pressing, no link up play, no passing, hardly dribbling in the centre, his runs are better towards the left than Central or right.
There's this overhyped bit of Ronaldo that people think he is this United/ Real Madrid player when he isn't. Everyone gets blamed for him only scoring 1 in 7 games apparently but not really him.
The best way this overhyped thing is explained - is how people think Zidane would be salivating to manage him again. Like why? He is 37. He wasn't deemed good enough as a ST upfront by himself in his prime, he is going to come here crave to play Ronaldo in a partnership whilst dropping all our wingers to the bench just to get the best out of him?
I just don't see it.
Well he did make an assist for VDB goal too, didn’t he? Its 9 goals and 2 assists in 13 games, with also a few barely offside goals being ruled out. Still by far our most productive player. I don’t think there any is player in the world right now who could score that many goals for us, under such disjointed system, to be very honest.
If you think he is old and didn’t do enough in pressing, which we badly need our attackers (especially no.9) to do, then fair play. But I think you have been spending way too much time and energy on someone who is currently among one of lesser concern for our problems. I don’t know, but maybe you need to seek some help or something, that’s what I genuinely think.
As you mentioned, football is 11 vs 11 games, striker main role is to score goals, to which Ronaldo has been doing his main job right.Football is 11 vs 11 game, as I mentioned many times. Striker job is to scoring goal and make an assist, no doubt. Ronaldo is playing 90 minutes per match plus stoppage time, more than anyone strikers out there. So he is making goals and assists.
But does he improve the team after he joined? What the result we can see, the team is playing well, Pogba and Bruno making tone of assists, Greenwood and later on Rashford are scoring goals after goals, out of sudden, midfielders disconnected with Ronaldo, strikers on time field limited because of Ronaldo.
This is what we called ''disjointed'' as you mentioned. I personally think everyone have their own opinion, asking someone to seek some help or something if he is not the same opinion with you, it is not a good way to do so.
As you mentioned, football is 11 vs 11 games, striker main role is to score goals, to which Ronaldo has been doing his job right.
We have disjointed team because most other players are not doing their job right. Midfielders are not doing their job of passing the ball around, involving in build up play, or creating. Winger is not doing their job of providing cross and chances, defenders are not doing their job of defending as a unit. Of course, attackers, including Ronaldo, are not doing their job to press as a unit too.
And these are mostly down to coaching too, Ole and his coaching team never setup our team right to address all these issues.
Well I am not arguing wingers could be main goalscorer, afterall, Ronaldo did revolutionize the role of inverted goalscoring winger, didn’t he? The rest of football just followed his footsteps, to some extent. But then we need to play a Rooney/Benzema or even Firmino type of CF, to accommodate such system, I am sure this is something we could agree on.Our wingers are inverted forwards.
It should be Ronaldo who passes to them.
Strikers are not just pure goalscorers. Wingers can be the goalscorers of the team as seen by Ronaldo himself who was again an inverted winger/forward but not a central striker even in his prime. Who were then the strikers? Rooney, Tevez, Benzema, Dybala - player that could pick a pass.
Forget about the pressing, Martial wasn't a good presser - but played/positioned centrally enough and received the ball to feet, holding the ball up and linked up play with his passing which kept the centre backs busy even if he was easy to defend against.
Ronaldo doesn't even occupy the central areas alot of the time so it looks like we don't play a central striker on paper. Nothing that keeps the CB'S busy because no pressing. No ability to hold the play up with his back to goal. No passes or one two moments with the players around him.
Anyway, this was Ole's fault for not tactically understanding Ronaldo.
Every single manager - be it SAF, Zidane, Mourinho all the Real Madrid and Juventus managers - didn't get the best out of Ronaldo as a single central striker as the lead striker.
The only managers that did are arguably Ole and the Portugal National manager - which says alot in my opinion. Even the Portugal Euro final had him Ronaldo and Nani upfront with Eder coming on and scoring the winning goal.
Anyway, let's see where Carrick's tactical eyes are now.
Will he join Ole and the Portugal National manager - or will he join the more legendary managers of club football.
Well I am not arguing wingers could be main goalscorer, afterall, Ronaldo did revolutionize the role of inverted goalscoring winger, didn’t he? The rest of football just followed his footsteps, to some extent. But then we need to play a Rooney/Benzema or even Firmino type of CF, to accommodate such system, I am sure this is something we could agree on.
I don’t think we would improve much under Carrick, as he has been key part of our inept coaching over past few years, but let’s see.
If you asked me, I think current Ronaldo is still best suit to play as wing forward, or play off with another CF. Playing him as lone striker and asking him to play as target man to hold up play as traditional no.9, and press hard alone isn’t his game at all, not now and not during his peak either.What does this have to do anything with Ronaldo playing as United's main striker?
Like I said we are not talking about "past Ronaldo", we are talking about "current Ronaldo".
Playing as a wing forward or with another CF in terms of Ronaldo is exactly the same thing. Ronaldo as a CF tends to favour and move towards the left anyway, which has caused our left wing to be less dangerous as compared to our previous seasons (where our left wing was probably our most dangerous).If you asked me, I think current Ronaldo is still best suit to play as wing forward, or play off with another CF. Playing him as lone striker and asking him to play as target man to hold up play as traditional no.9, and press hard alone isn’t his game at all, not now and not during his peak either.
It limited his game and strength.
If you asked me, I think current Ronaldo is still best suit to play as wing forward, or play off with another CF. Playing him as lone striker and asking him to play as target man to hold up play as traditional no.9, and press hard alone isn’t his game at all, not now and not during his peak either.
It limited his game and strength.
Rashford is the same, if not worse at pressing, compared to Ronaldo.If that is the case why not just bench him? Wing forward position needs the ability to press the fullbacks, if not it would be the easiest route for teams to bypass the midfield.
And as you said he is not in his peak then why does Manchester United need to set up other players just to maximize him when he is not in his peak?
If he starts in the left wing that means benching Rashford, should United really sacrifice one of the most promising youngsters to satisfy an aging Ronaldo?
Shouldn't United aim for the future not just immediate results? Not that Ronaldo is helping with immediate results. And please don't get started with the Cl games, he faced both face Liverpool and City and did almost nothing against them. Which means he no longer has the magic to break big teams.
I disagree, atm there might not be a major difference between the 2. But Rashford can easily be coached to press, Ronaldo just cba.Rashford is the same, if not worse at pressing, compared to Ronaldo.
I just don’t think it works best for him and his teams. In Juventus he mostly play with Morata as no.9 last season, and before that Higuain and Mandzukic. Even in Portugal he is always playing and sharing his role with Jota, who can both play as CF/WF. No to mention in Real he plays with Benzema, and Rooney at United.Playing as a wing forward or with another CF in terms of Ronaldo is exactly the same thing. Ronaldo as a CF tends to favour and move towards the left anyway, which has caused our left wing to be less dangerous as compared to our previous seasons (where our left wing was probably our most dangerous).
I do agree with the bolded part in the sense he has limited game and strength, the reason why Ronaldo has to play as a cf is quite simple. playing in one of our 2 wide positions will leave that side very weak defensively. The current Ronaldo is a pure poacher/goalscorer unfortunately he doesn't contribute in any other way to our overall play. Now I'm not saying that is a bad thing but there are a limited amount of coaches available that would get the best out of Ronaldo and the best out of our team. That is probably why he went through so many coaches at Juve.
Yes, I completely agree he's best at being in a 2 up top formation. But how are we going to play like that when we have Greenwood/Rashford/Cavani/Sancho/Lingard/Martial all fighting for that one spot ? why sign Sancho ? That's my whole point, our personnel is not to Ronaldo's strength and Ronaldo is not to our strength. A very puzzling signing from a squad building perspective.I just don’t think it works best for him and his teams. In Juventus he mostly play with Morata as no.9 last season, and before that Higuain and Mandzukic. Even in Portugal he is always playing and sharing his role with Jota, who can both play as CF/WF. No to mention in Real he plays with Benzema, and Rooney at United.
As I’ve said, it really depends on tactic of the teams. He never press during his prime years in Real, nor during his first stint for us. It really depends how the teams going to use him, and of course those teams are hugely successful playing him as wing forward over the years, as he is probably the most successful wing forward of all time. There are plenty of ways to make it works fine, but we just need to be smart enough.If that is the case why not just bench him? Wing forward position needs the ability to press the fullbacks, if not it would be the easiest route for teams to bypass the midfield.
And as you said he is not in his peak then why does Manchester United need to set up other players just to maximize him when he is not in his peak?
If he starts in the left wing that means benching Rashford, should United really sacrifice one of the most promising youngsters to satisfy an aging Ronaldo?
Shouldn't United aim for the future not just immediate results? Not that Ronaldo is helping with immediate results. And please don't get started with the Cl games, he faced both face Liverpool and City and did almost nothing against them. Which means he no longer has the magic to break big teams.
You are right though, maybe we shouldn’t sign him. He would have scored far more goals for City though, and we would have easier choice to make to keep everyone happy in our first team selection. But mind you, Greenwood, Rashford or Martial aren’t suddenly going to do any pressing at all, so the same concern are still going to be there.Yes, I completely agree he's best at being in a 2 up top formation. But how are we going to play like that when we have Greenwood/Rashford/Cavani/Sancho/Lingard/Martial all fighting for that one spot ? why sign Sancho ? That's my whole point, our personnel is not to Ronaldo's strength and Ronaldo is not to our strength. A very puzzling signing from a squad building perspective.
We could have signed him, but signing him AND Sancho was pretty useless and shows no forward planning.You are right though, maybe we shouldn’t sign him. He would have scored far more goals for City though, and we would have easier choice to make to keep everyone happy in our first team selection. But mind you, Greenwood, Rashford or Martial aren’t suddenly going to do any pressing at all, so the same concern are still going to be there.
Talk about bending the truth...we were in an absolute stinker of a group last year compared to this years relatively poor opponents and furthermore, we were not out of the champions league after 4 games last year...we had 9 points...counter attacked RB to bits and put in what was one of our only truly strong performances away to PSG. How is beating RB 5-0 and actually competing with and beating PSG worse than losing to YB and litterally crawling over the line in our other games in the dying second? Did you actually watch these games you’re talking about...?Do you write things thinking no one else remembers what you’re talking about? There is no person with any type of honesty or objectivity that can bend the facts of the last 3 months and say we have improved since Ronaldo signed when every stat, measurable tangible and the actual eye test all say we are much worse. He isn’t the only problem but to say he has improved us is the worst thing I have read on this forum all season..and that saying something.Ronaldo has improved us. You're just ignoring the complete debacle in the middle of the part and the good fortune we had last season. First of all, we were out of the champions league last season and would have been this year if Ronaldo wasn't playing.
Secondly, forget Ronaldo and replace him with whoever you think is the worlds best number 9. Analyze our performances and tell me how exactly the worlds best number 9 would avoid some of the absolutely comical goals we have conceded.
It's easy to just blame it all on Ronaldo as he must be past it and all but as much folks want say it, Ronaldo not pressing from the front does not lead to AWB losing his marker and not knowing how to control the ball. It does not lead to Greenwood running into dead ends. It does not lead to Bruno Fernandes taking 40 yard punts hoping it goes in and it doesn't lead to like for Fred and McTominay leaving acres of space in behind.
This Saturday Ronaldo was actually average, especially his finishing. However, when him Van Der Beek and Sancho linked up, you could instantaneously see what quality players can do.
Speaking of Sancho, that's another player who has been lukewarm. Don't forget his price tag and how highly he has been rated. Are you going to blame Sancho as well now? Or maybe if quality players like Sancho, Ronaldo etc are suffering the rot is somewhere else.
We could have signed him, but signing him AND Sancho was pretty useless and shows no forward planning.
Maybe the problem is, we have been chasing Sancho for years, and he is the first signing we’ve made this summer. Everyone is happy about the signing. For Ronaldo, we simply can’t let him go to City, so we sign him instead. It’s not a well planned signing at all. It’s just like say Liverpool or Chelsea suddenly sign Messi out of nowhere, who doesn’t fit in their game plan or approach at all, but has to force to start him every match.We could have signed him, but signing him AND Sancho was pretty useless and shows no forward planning.
And nothing in possession, he contributes nothing to overall play. Hence when he doesn't score he's dropping 4,5 out of 10 performances. Also at Madrid Ronaldo still had the ability to press, his overall game was much better, still had insane athleticism and pace. The current Ronaldo is a shell of that player.Talk about bending the truth...we were in an absolute stinker of a group last year compared to this years relatively poor opponents and furthermore, we were not out of the champions league after 4 games last year...we had 9 points...counter attacked RB to bits and put in what was one of our only truly strong performances away to PSG. Do you write things thinking no one else remembers what you’re talking about?
As for your world class number 9point...again...only makes sense on the surface. It depends on what you class as a number 9. If your Man City and you are both stable, and compact, and really fuking exceptional in possession then perhaps you carry a number 9 that gives you nothing out of possession. If you have a midfield made up of the beat CDM in the world (Casemiro) and the two of the best ball retainers and passers (Nordic and Kroos) then yes you can accommodate that type of striker...but for a team that has Fred and McT as midfield stalwarts it means Bruno moves further up the pitch to try make up for Ronaldo doing fuk all without the ball and we look catastrophic which is what we have seen.
Ronaldo needs a striker partner, we have not played two up to in years...meaning we need to change shape to accommodate him or play him in a formation that doesn’t suit him. We have done both. One way welook more fragile then EVER before and the other we win 3-0 playing counter attack and leaving our young promising attackers on the bench.
I don’t want to be a counter attacking side...I don’t want us to look fragile and I don’t want to leave some of the most talented young attackers on the planet on the bench to accommodate an ageing superstar. So no, that’s not an agenda...that’s a valid and at the very least reasonable position to take.
Or sign him and use him as a squad player at the age of 37. Start him some games but built the team to a more cohesive level and let Ronaldo come on when we need a goal or need to finish the game.
Ultimately that's extremely hard to do with Ronaldo's own ego and his reputation of being the GOAT.
We could sign Pele at the age of 90 - he would be given the opportunity by most fans to start our games and be our main man due to the player he was than the player he is - even if he now plays as our CM in a double pivot, a position he was never good at even in his prime, he can make a decent pass but do nothing else but who cares; he is Pele and was once great upfront so should be able to do well for United just because he can make a pass - the sole attribute of a CM. (Not for me).
Maybe the problem is, we have been chasing Sancho for years, and he is the first signing we’ve made this summer. Everyone is happy about the signing. For Ronaldo, we simply can’t let him go to City, so we sign him instead. It’s not a well planned signing at all. It’s just like say Liverpool or Chelsea suddenly sign Messi out of nowhere, who doesn’t fit in their game plan or approach at all, but has to force to start him every match.
And nothing in possession, he contributes nothing to overall play. Hence when he doesn't score he's dropping 4,5 out of 10 performances. Also at Madrid Ronaldo still had the ability to press, his overall game was much better, still had insane athleticism and pace. The current Ronaldo is a shell of that player.
I'm being realistic here, if you have Ronaldo you have to play Ronaldo, let's not pretend Ronaldo/the fans will be happy with him sitting on the bench. In a perfect world I agree but your scenario is unrealistic due to politics. He could've done that at Juve, but he wouldn't accept being a squad player which is why he took the private jet to Portugal.
Then we should have let him go to City. I'm still doubtful of those City links in the first place. Feel like they were placed their by his agent and we fell for it.
If that part is true that is disgraceful. There is no way Pep or City would agree with that.I mean I agree with you.
If you have Ronaldo you have to play Ronaldo.
That's why Ronaldo is a tactical problem because he has significant flaws and arguably only 2 positives (his poacher like strikers ability and his leadership mentality).
I mean it's been read that he came here to United and said that he picks his own position before signing the contract. A player that picks his position and gets to start every game purely from his history as a player.
The fact that he is playing a position he couldn't do in his prime but is doing when he is old just because he has lost some pace is very much like Rooney going from our striker to becoming our CM when he turned old just because he could pick a pass once in a while.
I mean I agree with you.
If you have Ronaldo you have to play Ronaldo.
That's why Ronaldo is a tactical problem because he has significant flaws and arguably only 2 positives (his poacher like strikers ability and his leadership mentality).
I mean it's been read that he came here to United and said that he picks his own position before signing the contract. A player that picks his position and gets to start every game purely from his history as a player.
The fact that he is playing a position he couldn't do in his prime but is doing when he is old just because he has lost some pace is very much like Rooney going from our striker to becoming our CM when he turned old just because he could pick a pass once in a while.
It's both, because the team had to be reshaped to accomodate Ronaldo. It's not because of Ronaldo as a player, it's because of who Ronaldo is and you can't make him "just" a cog in the team. It would have been a smart move in 2012, it's not anymore. Players like Bruno will constantly look for him no matter where he is on the pitch and Ronaldo will constantly ask for the ball but that doesn't mean he should get the pass. He'll bail the team out on occasions but most of the time it cripples the (weak) team cohesion United tried to have. 37yo Ronaldo needs to be treated like a very good player but not like a player that can make magic happen outside of the box. He can't carry a team anymore, he just needs good chances and he'll score, he's not capable of anything else now (he's still a great player but far less versatile). Also, him being a striker that cannot play in a striker's position is another problem, he reduces the width of the attack.
Talk about bending the truth...we were in an absolute stinker of a group last year compared to this years relatively poor opponents and furthermore, we were not out of the champions league after 4 games last year...we had 9 points...counter attacked RB to bits and put in what was one of our only truly strong performances away to PSG. How is beating RB 5-0 and actually competing with and beating PSG worse than losing to YB and litterally crawling over the line in our other games in the dying second? Did you actually watch these games you’re talking about...?Do you write things thinking no one else remembers what you’re talking about? There is no person with any type of honesty or objectivity that can bend the facts of the last 3 months and say we have improved since Ronaldo signed when every stat, measurable tangible and the actual eye test all say we are much worse. He isn’t the only problem but to say he has improved us is the worst thing I have read on this forum all season..and that saying something.
As for your world class number 9point...again...only makes sense on the surface. It depends on what you class as a number 9. If you’re Man City and you are both stable and compact, and really fuking exceptional in possession then perhaps you carry a number 9 that gives you nothing out of possession. If you have a midfield made up of the best CDM in the world (Casemiro) and the two of the best ball retainers and passers (Modric and Kroos) then yes you can accommodate that type of striker...but for a team that has Fred and McT as midfield stalwarts it means Bruno moves further up the pitch to try make up for Ronaldo doing fuk all without the ball and we look catastrophic which is what we have seen.
Ronaldo needs a striker partner, we have not played two up to in years...meaning we need to change shape to accommodate him or play him in a formation that doesn’t suit him. We have done both. One way welook more fragile then EVER before and the other we win 3-0 playing counter attack and leaving our young promising attackers on the bench.
I don’t want to be a counter attacking side...I don’t want us to look fragile and I don’t want to leave some of the most talented young attackers on the planet on the bench to accommodate an ageing superstar. So no, that’s not an agenda...that’s a valid and at the very least reasonable position to take.
I’m pretty sure you just made this up on the spot.mean it's been read that he came here to United and said that he picks his own position before signing the contract. A player that picks his position and gets to start every game purely from his history as a player.
Definitely has done.I’m pretty sure you just made this up on the spot.
I'm pretty sure he didn't get to pick a position. He would never pick number 9 and he's been playing there. He's said publicly he'd rather not play there.
https://en.as.com/en/2017/08/13/soccer/1502631422_704225.html
You are right though, maybe we shouldn’t sign him. He would have scored far more goals for City though, and we would have easier choice to make to keep everyone happy in our first team selection. But mind you, Greenwood, Rashford or Martial aren’t suddenly going to do any pressing at all, so the same concern are still going to be there.
Ronaldo exposed Ole, a top coach might be able to use Ronaldo while also planning around what he can't do anymore(or never did) but Ole was trying to play Ronaldo, Greenwood, Bruno, Pogba and Sancho in the same team. No wonder we have been so easy to play against this year.
If the new manager comes in and decides on a rebuilding period then there is no point retaining Ronaldo.
Ronaldo is doing everything a number 9 should, barring last week where he was pretty average
This is such a foolish post. It’s as if Ronaldo was the only man on the pitch and not 10 other players. FYI, he had his best all round season in a Juve shirt playing under allegri and was the only reason they made it as far as the QFs in the CL that season with his hat-trick against Atletico in the R016. He almost even carried them through against Ajax; being the only player scoring in both games. Also, Sarri has a Serie A title thanks to Ronaldo. No idea where you guys draw these ridiculous conclusions from.To add one thing from that in the last 4 years, he made Allegri, Sarri, Pirlo, and Ole sacked. I'll give you the doubt that the last two are just inexperienced.
The first two are top managers if not world class. At this point you have to take out your bias glasses and also question the player.
You're totally missing the point. Look at Lewandoski at Bayern for exemple, he's not trying to score every goal, his teamates are not only looking for him as the very first option, he scores because he's a the right place at the right time and when he's not, another teamates gets the opportunity. Since Ronaldo arrived at United, players looked compelled to give him the ball, to constantly look for him before looking at anyone else as if he's some sort of messiah that will make magic happen wherever he gets the ball. Ronaldo is not this player for years now, the team shouldn't treat him like he is and he should not behave as if he could carry the team by dezonning 40m far from the goal, he cannot. Build first, pass it to Ronaldo later, that's how it should work.
Ronaldo's comeback back was so overhyped that a lot of people, including players, thought he would change the team by his mere presence. Obviously, he cannot do that, nobody can except his younger version and Messi's.
This is such a foolish post. It’s as if Ronaldo was the only man on the pitch and not 10 other players. FYI, he had his best all round season in a Juve shirt playing under allegri and was the only reason they made it as far as the QFs in the CL that season with his hat-trick against Atletico in the R016. He almost even carried them through against Ajax; being the only player scoring in both games. Also, Sarri has a Serie A title thanks to Ronaldo. No idea where you guys draw these ridiculous conclusions from.
Ronaldo is a serial winner. It’s nonsensical to even suggest that he has anything to do with his coach’s sackings. If anything he kept them in a job longer than they would’ve been. Santos has longed been heavily criticised by the Portuguese. He plays very negative football despite the talented players at his disposal. And you can’t be serious with your last line.Where did the team that went to two Champions league finals go?
Juventus at that time would have won the Serie A title with or without Ronaldo, they were on a consecutive winning strike. Don't be ridiculous.
Of course you have a point that football is a team sport so everyone takes some blame when they fail. However, I'm just pointing out the fact that you don't want to admit.
If I add another manager in their now people are blaming Santos, for failing the world cup qualification.
So how can it be always the Manager and not the common player that played in all of the teams.
Ronaldo is a serial winner. It’s nonsensical to even suggest that he has anything to do with his coach’s sackings. If anything he kept them in a job longer than they would’ve been. Santos has longed been heavily criticised by the Portuguese. He plays very negative football despite the talented players at his disposal. And you can’t be serious with your last line.
