If you have actually watched our games this season, many of Ronaldo goals are actually scored from half chances from disjointed team. He doesn’t have many services yet he is still scoring goals for us. There simply not much action from our attackers when our midfield is being dominated by opponents.
7
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 38
- Goals
- 24
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 9
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
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I have actually watched our games this season, that doesn't detract from my point, I think Ronaldo is someone (Even at this age) to build your team around and his output is ridiculous and he is a bonus to the team. However, the team being built round him means other players will NOT have the same impact as they are looking to feed Ronaldo rather than shoot or do something themselves as is evident in the drop in other's output, I rate Ronaldo ridiculously high but would prefer if we had more than one main output, I don't know how that's achieved but feel we have enough players in this team to accommodate and find the right balance that we clearly haven't found yet.
Ronaldo is direct and attacking, I don't think he pairs well with too many others like him such as Greenwood & Rashford, players like Cavani and Bruno are happy to supply him rather than take the shot themselves and I think that's the better answer, I would prefer to play something like the below if it was my choice:
Fred_Mctom_VDB
Bruno
Ronaldo_Cavani
and in games where Ronaldo can't start....
Matic_Fred
Sancho_Bruno_Rashford
Greenwood
And one of the reasons our midfield is so easily dominated is because our attackers are so passive in most phases of play, which is something that's applied to Ronaldo for years. It's not a coincidence that Ronaldo has never played in a team that dominated midfield. He's needed the team to carry him. Which is why his fellow forwards always scored more goals before and after he left, too. He forced them to do the stuff he wouldn't do, which inhibited their ability to get and score those chances.
Casemiro, Kroos and Modric?
So you yourself say that last season Bruno was good then went through a period of bad form, then it was Pogba who was carrying us, that players like Shaw were in exquisite form, players like Maguire was in better form -
Aka We were a better team last season;
Then you yourself say this season literally everyone has turned to crap, Bruno Fernandes, Pogba, Shaw, Maguire, Wan Bissaka, Greenwood - just everyone -
Except C Ronaldo. Literally no one else except Ronaldo.
Even the start of the season pre Ronaldo, Bruno hattrick, Pogba 7 assists, Greenwood 3 goals in 3 games!
Now absolutely crap all, all except one person, Ronaldo.
Why? Because our main tactic now is to purely get the best out of Ronaldo.
And your sitting there clapping at him and solely him and pointing angrily at every single other 26 players in the squad.
It wasn't like that last season.
You are literally saying it yourself.
I don't know why I bother.
RedRonaldo, just leave it okay.
I don’t think we are even trying to build a team, if you watched our games this season.
Maguire’s horrific form is because of Ronaldo?
Even in the Leeds game where we won 5-1, it wasn’t a comfortable display. There were cracks all over the place. The Southampton draw was a mess.
Individual brilliance, penalties and a lot of luck saved us last season. It was not fantastic football.
Everyone is playing shit except Ronaldo this season.
That wasn't the case last season.
Tell me - where has the low block defensive oppositions gone vs us?
Very very simple question?
You saw them alot vs us last season right?
Same applies to Messi actually. But anyway, I don’t see this as a problem, as his teams has been proven to be hugely successful with him over the years. Since he has left us, we are in downhill too. It’s up to manager to find right balance in the team.
Even when they won 4-2 with Ronaldo scoring a hat-trick against Bayern, they had less possession. Or when they beat Juve 4-1 in the final, they only had a little more possession. They were much closer to the United team Ronaldo was part of than the Barcelona teams that had e.g. nearly 70% of the ball in that 2011 final against us.
That was a great midfield trio but they weren't there to dominate the midfield they were there to slice through teams, generally on the counter.
Messi's teams consistently dominated midfield with him playing a key role in most phases of the game, and his partners scored boatloads of goals often directly through his assists. What a strange statement.
Christ
Same thing over and over again.
Look, personally, I don't disagree that Ronaldo may have changed the harmony of the squad. I feel, as you said, Ole is trying to play around him (which is a coaching issue and not a Ronaldo issue, it's not his fault Ole has no clue).
BUT, we were still crap last season, we conceded first so many times. The team was still disjointed and the issues that are here this season were evident last season. Bruno dragged us out of the mud, then Pogba did have a spell.
As you are repeating yourself too, i'll repeat myself. Pogba would still have 7 assists with/without Ronaldo. He's not been consistent with us since he joined, so why all of a sudden, would that have changed if we didn't sign Ronaldo? Greenwood hasn't changed since Ronaldo come in, he still cuts in and shoots.
Maguire, Shaw, AWB aren't playing terribly due to Ronaldo, they're playing terribly cos of Ole, his tactics, and his lack of ability to drop them for Lindelof/Telles/Dalot. They're not fighting for their place at all. Shaw, last season, stepped up when Telles came in and made LB his own. This season, he still isn't threatened by Telles. Maguire, rushed back from injury, clearly not match fit, and still playing with no eagerness whatsoever, but knows his place is safe and is undroppable. There is nothing to do with Ronaldo here at all.
As I said, I agree Ronaldo has caused a change in how we play, but that's down to Ole, not him. And you objectively blaming Ronaldo for everything is absolutely stupid. We would still be in this same position with or without Ronaldo. It's similar to Pogba, everyone likes to point blame on him when he's playing, but we still end up in the mud even when he isn't (this includes previous seasons, not since ronny has come in).
Already let you know I've watched the games this season - Ole is trying to build a team but is failing and the minute something goes wrong he reverts to what he thinks people want rather than build his team and have faith
Not everyone, De Gea is fine, Greenwood I think he is improving, Lindelof is ok, Cavani is hardworking, Rashford has been quite productive given his limited game time, and some of our new recruitments like Varane has been good. You don’t have to always act so dramatic and one-sided, there’s many side of reality we have to look at, ok?
I am simply saying, there are issues everywhere, while you are just focusing all our issues on Ronaldo, which is a ridiculous take.
Wolves game, we should’ve lost 4-1 without Ronaldo. Southampton game, absolutely terrible. West Ham game in the League Cup, terrible. This has nothing to do with Ronaldo.
He'll reply to this saying we beat Leeds without Ronaldo.
Or come up with some trash to how them games are different.Single Handedly savings Oles job
Very impressed by how well he is doing considering we are playing shite.
Very impressed by how well he is doing considering we are playing shite.
The low block has been used against us a lot less since we signed Bruno. Teams have been attacking us more, which is why we went 1-0 down so often last season.
I honestly don’t see the relation between Ronaldo playing and Maguire’s inability to control the ball, Fred’s inability to tackle and Wan Bissaka’s lack of awareness.
Bruno’s form has been poor for most of 2021, Pogba has been hit and miss forever, Rashford has come back and looked decent. Cavani has actually linked up well with Ronaldo. Whose form do you think Ronaldo is impacting?
Well, Messi teammates has to do a lot of defensive works for him too, covering the extra yards for him and such. But anyway, that’s not the point. It’s always up to manager to find the right balance. He had been the key of success over many different teams in the past, this is a fact.
It’s ridiculous. This poor run of form has been coming. It was gonna happen with or without Ronaldo. Ronaldo has actually been actively saving Oles job. Just like Bruno last season.He'll reply to this saying we beat Leeds without Ronaldo.
Jeez I hope so.
Ronaldo -- great player.
Others -- maybe someday great.
btw, I'm thinking he won't start next game. Watford? They shouldn't need him.
Yep, exactly. So in the 17/18 season (the one before Ronaldo) the top 4 goal scorers got a collective 52 goals. And in the subsequent 3 seasons the number for the top 4 scorers was 53, 54, and 41 (average of 49 goals) So although Ronaldo got the lions share, the three players in positions 2, 3 and 4 all scored a lot less, and that unfortunately offset all of Ronaldo’s extra input. I’d put money on that happening to Utd this season. Last season your top 3 goal scorers (Fenandes, Rashford, Cavani) scored a total of 66 goals in all comps, it will be interesting to see how many they get this season but I suspect it will be significantly lower than that.
The question, and it’s one that is very difficult to answer, is, did the other players score less *because* of the way they played to accommodate Ronaldo or did they simply have worse seasons completely independently of him.
You could argue that the inherent weaknesses you mention in Maguire, Fred, Wan Bissaka etc are becoming less easy to hide because they are under more pressure due to a disjointed set of forwards. But that still leaves the fact that the weaknesses were always there, and is not directly Ronaldo’s fault. But it begs the question of whether it’s worth exposing those weaknesses more in order to keep playing Ronaldo.
United are better off if we take Ronaldo out then? Maguire will suddenly be able to turn 180 degrees in under 10 seconds and AWB will grow a footballing brain?
I’d argue that the return of the fans is putting the shitter up these pressured players, rather than having one of the worlds best ever players up front.
Christ - this happens anywhere any player would go. The goals come from different places. For one, it's not like we're adding a 12th man to the pitch in Ronaldo, he's replacing mainly Cavani.
If Lewa was to leave Bayern, they'd probably score fewer goals, but the likes of Sane, Gnabry, Muller, Coman will probably all get more goals. Because of them 50 goals a season Robert is getting, these will come from different players. It's not like Bayern will go from 100 goals a season to 50. In essence, you're suggesting Lewa is impacting all the other forwards at Bayern by being there.
If Messi, Ronaldo and Lewa were to play in the same team, they wouldn't each score 40+ goals a season, that's just not how it works.
Again the easy target. Ronaldo is used to this though. Same stuff about team cohesion was discussed back in 2008.
He is literally the only reason we are in the champions league.
He is literally the only reason we are in the champions league.
Why is the fact we are in the CL so important? That is one short term gain of playing with Ronaldo - he has kept us in the CL. But at what cost...we are United fans ...not Ronaldo fans (...)
We have accumulated a host of young attacking talent who will have limited opportunity in their favoured position and potentially be shoehorned in to other roles and formations to accommodate Ronny...the stats point toward the fact that this approach does not increase the general level of the team or make the team more potent...it simply makes one player the main output in terms of scoring goals as opposed to sharing that burden (a questionable tactic in itself ie. becoming over reliable on one player).
Surely, regardless of who that player is, taking a risk to build your entire team around a single player would only be worth it if it had the potential to improve the overall level of the team significantly. This does not seem to be the case with Ronaldo - in fact- we look worse with him in the team albeit his unbelievable ability to come up with the goods papers over that somewhat.
Ronaldo was and is great...but if his greatness is having no impact whatsoever...why are we celebrating it like we would be lost without it-we would be exactly where we are now as a team - CL or no CL... While a better manager and a better setup might maximise Ronaldo’s output— could the same not be said about the effect that same new manager might have on our current crop of incredibly talented forwards?Is Man Utd’s ceiling not potentially higher long term without spending the next two years feeding the GOAT?
While I in no way think Ole has any place as a manager of any top side, getting Ronaldo shoved down your throat at the end of the transfer window is certainly something I didn't envy him for.
To make Ronaldo work and still work as as team you need to have a disciplined side with a high workrate across all parts on the pitch. Clearly this isn't Utd in its current state.
Juve had the players required to get away with Ronaldos non-existant workrate, and yet, they still regressed. Yes, he is scoring goals, but at the price of everything needed to be centered around him.
Proclaming this run was coming anyway is easy, as it cannot be proven. I'd say you probably wouldn't be worse off right now, if Ronaldo never came, and your front 3 would consist of Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho, who are all being overshadowed and sidelined by him.
Think there's enough evidence from results last season, then the Wolves and Southampton game too earlier this season before Ronaldo came in.
That front 3 would not prevent the issues we've had defensively.
I tend to agree. The root problem is Ole but Ronaldo is at best a minor net positive in the short run and clearly a net negative for the medium-to-long run as his presence poses obstacles to the development of players like Greenwood and Sancho and the team is unlikely to ever develop a truly modern, dominant playing style (under a new manager, as this wouldn't happen with Ole in any case) with him in the side.
If think if you could elicit a truthful response from tactically progressive managerial candidates like Ten Hag, Rodgers, or Potter, they would confide that Ronaldo's presence actually makes the job look a lot harder and that figuring out how to implement a new tactical setup with him either in the team or sulking on the bench is one of the biggest challenges they envision facing.
no seriously...I mean if I said to you ...you can sign Pogba to a 500k a week contract and he will get you into the knockout stages of the CL where you would then get spanked by the first decent team that comes along...would it be worth it? Or would you want to take a bit of a longer term view as to how that money might be spent to improve the clubs overall level of performance?
I think Ronaldo keeping us in the CL means fuk all when we are shite full stop...we need to be focusing on how we develop Collectively...not on how to setup to ensure that Ronaldo continues to be the shining light in an otherwise shite team. It’s to early to give up on trying to play to the strengths of Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood etc. in the short term because they can’t play with Ronaldo...in their own right...I’d rather spend the rest of this season with a new coach working on getting the best out of that frontline then celebrating how Ronny keeps scoring last minute goals to keep us at the same poor level we were at before he arrived.
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RON THE WAY OUT Cristiano Ronaldo ‘could ask to LEAVE Man Utd if they do not qualify for the Champions League next season’
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16690065/cristiano-ronaldo-leave-man-utd-champions-league/
that's fair enough really.. Ronny is the GOAT and isn't a Europa League Player. He doesn't want to waste his last few years of his career not competing in title races in April (which seems like we are already out of the title race this season in October!). He doesn't have time to waste that's why he left Juventus in the first place. So he can easily do the same with United in the summer if things don't improve.
Other players like Bruno Fernandes, Harry Maguire, De Gea, Rashford, Greenwood, Shaw etc might be happy with staying at a "NICE" football club like Manchester United who seems a long way off from competing for major trophies. But that sums up the problem in this team. A lack of winners in the team who have got it too cozy and comfortable just playing for Manchester United and all the money/privileges/cars/mansions/women etc that come with it despite winning sweet F all trophies in there careers for the team or individually they are put on undeserved pedestals they need to pull their fingers out ASAP. And other top clubs in the Premier League and in the Champions League are not banging the door down desperate to sign.
if the club wants to stick with loveable cozy comfortable atmosphere Ole and don't want a short-term impact manager like a big-name like Mourinho or Conte to deliver short-term success (that's what they do almost guaranteed success) They shouldn't have gone for a serial winner like Ronny who needs a manager and coaches to match his ambition to win trophies the next few years. Sadly he's stuck with the 3 stooges Ole, Carrick and McKenna... no wonder he's getting frustrated and Jorge Mendes is leaking this stuff out. I'm surprised it's took this long to be fair. The only way change happens if Ronny kicks up a fuss as he's bigger than the manager, players and club not just his profile but the trophies he's won in his career he can show his medals and trophies won in his career but the others can't... He has the power to make changes happen. That's what we need as fans as Ronny matches the fans ambitions we want the same things he does Manchester United competing for and winning trophies. He's the perfect player for us right now and embodies the spirit of where we want Manchester United to be. Hence why he should be the club captain as he won't stop challenging the players, coaches and management until the club is back where it belongs winning trophies again.
Ronny must be shocked at how low standards have slipped since he last played for the club. Standards on the floor and in the mud he's swimming in shite.. Sad times.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/16690065/cristiano-ronaldo-leave-man-utd-champions-league/
that's fair enough really.. Ronny is the GOAT and isn't a Europa League Player. He doesn't want to waste his last few years of his career not competing in title races in April (which seems like we are already out of the title race this season in October!). He doesn't have time to waste that's why he left Juventus in the first place. So he can easily do the same with United in the summer if things don't improve.
Other players like Bruno Fernandes, Harry Maguire, De Gea, Rashford, Greenwood, Shaw etc might be happy with staying at a "NICE" football club like Manchester United who seems a long way off from competing for major trophies. But that sums up the problem in this team. A lack of winners in the team who have got it too cozy and comfortable just playing for Manchester United and all the money/privileges/cars/mansions/women etc that come with it despite winning sweet F all trophies in there careers for the team or individually they are put on undeserved pedestals they need to pull their fingers out ASAP. And other top clubs in the Premier League and in the Champions League are not banging the door down desperate to sign.
if the club wants to stick with loveable cozy comfortable atmosphere Ole and don't want a short-term impact manager like a big-name like Mourinho or Conte to deliver short-term success (that's what they do almost guaranteed success) They shouldn't have gone for a serial winner like Ronny who needs a manager and coaches to match his ambition to win trophies the next few years. Sadly he's stuck with the 3 stooges Ole, Carrick and McKenna... no wonder he's getting frustrated and Jorge Mendes is leaking this stuff out. I'm surprised it's took this long to be fair. The only way change happens if Ronny kicks up a fuss as he's bigger than the manager, players and club not just his profile but the trophies he's won in his career he can show his medals and trophies won in his career but the others can't... He has the power to make changes happen. That's what we need as fans as Ronny matches the fans ambitions we want the same things he does Manchester United competing for and winning trophies. He's the perfect player for us right now and embodies the spirit of where we want Manchester United to be. Hence why he should be the club captain as he won't stop challenging the players, coaches and management until the club is back where it belongs winning trophies again.
Ronny must be shocked at how low standards have slipped since he last played for the club. Standards on the floor and in the mud he's swimming in shite.. Sad times.
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It's so easy to put everything on Ronaldo and say , hey look there is your problem. But if you been watching united you will know the issues are bigger than Ronaldo.
We are absolutely clueless with the ball and don't know what to do with it. We are a shambles defensively. Our midfielders are non existent and the good ones are always benched.
GK makes brilliant saves but makes occasional brain facts.
Now where is my Ronaldo problem here ? I would fix the above issues first and then come to Ronaldo. If we are in a CL semifinal or Final, I understand Ronaldo could be a liability defensively but feck , we are trying to win against mid table clubs here.
We are absolutely clueless with the ball and don't know what to do with it. We are a shambles defensively. Our midfielders are non existent and the good ones are always benched.
GK makes brilliant saves but makes occasional brain facts.
Now where is my Ronaldo problem here ? I would fix the above issues first and then come to Ronaldo. If we are in a CL semifinal or Final, I understand Ronaldo could be a liability defensively but feck , we are trying to win against mid table clubs here.
Because that is what (in my opinion) I think is better for the team.
United is not worried about some salary money and rather worry about Pogba's wasted money than that. Even starting from the bench I believe Ronaldo can still score like 20 goals a season, which is enough for the money.
This team reach 2nd in the PL and went to the Europa league finals, imaging adding another 20 goals off the bench from that.
I think the real problem is his ego, which he needs to tone down (for the team). He needs to accept that he should not be the superstar of the team anymore and rather the leader of the team.
Contribution is not only on the pitch you know. If he can teach anyone of Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho to be half of what he was, I think that is a bigger contribution than getting 30 goals this season.
He needs to question himself, is he currently able to bring a team to a PL or CL championship by himself like 10 years ago. Honestly, to me he does looks out of depth in the PL. 4 goals in the PL up to this point is good but not exceptional ( as some people want to believe) considering he is the main target man of the team.
I agree with this. I had a similar post about Ronaldo (and Ibrahimovic) earlier in the year in the transfer thread in April 2021:
DWelbz19 said:
I like Ronaldo but it looks like Utd have signed the next 2 seasons away for nothing.
I don't think he's necessarily a tactical headache; with enough quality instructions on the level of Klopp/Pep, he can be great without stepping on anyone else's path. But this necessary tactical 'revolution' isn't going to happen at Utd.
There's also the idea that between Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho + Cavani, you have a functioning attack that works with each other. Some of us were looking forward to Greenwood sharing the striker position with Cavani this year, with Sancho taking his RW spot full-time. It would've worked. Cavani works really well with everyone. I don't think the other guys felt obliged to feed him relentlessly, the responsibility of scoring was instead shared. This worked quite well last year.
But instead you have Ronaldo here for 2 years minimum, and at this crucial developmental juncture in Greenwood's striker career (and Sancho's general need to play to sustain levels), they've both lost a heavy amount of playing time. For 2 whole years.
What can you do? Signing Ronaldo was a question of past vs present, romance vs wisdom. Let him go to City, and you ruin your memory of him at Utd. Sign him instead, and ruin the team you have now. It was always an impossible situation.
Don't forget Diallo, Elanga and Pellistri either
I don't think he's necessarily a tactical headache; with enough quality instructions on the level of Klopp/Pep, he can be great without stepping on anyone else's path. But this necessary tactical 'revolution' isn't going to happen at Utd.
There's also the idea that between Rashford/Greenwood/Sancho + Cavani, you have a functioning attack that works with each other. Some of us were looking forward to Greenwood sharing the striker position with Cavani this year, with Sancho taking his RW spot full-time. It would've worked. Cavani works really well with everyone. I don't think the other guys felt obliged to feed him relentlessly, the responsibility of scoring was instead shared. This worked quite well last year.
But instead you have Ronaldo here for 2 years minimum, and at this crucial developmental juncture in Greenwood's striker career (and Sancho's general need to play to sustain levels), they've both lost a heavy amount of playing time. For 2 whole years.
What can you do? Signing Ronaldo was a question of past vs present, romance vs wisdom. Let him go to City, and you ruin your memory of him at Utd. Sign him instead, and ruin the team you have now. It was always an impossible situation.
Don't forget Diallo, Elanga and Pellistri either
Seems like the other players need to step up. Till then, I'd think he considers himself to be one of the few competent players on the team.
He couldn't bring a team to Pl or CL wins 10 years ago. The other players were also excellent, the managers were great. He was just a standout between all those players.
If you think he looks out of his depth now, what do you think of every other player on the team?
Maguire and Shaw's form.
Absolute mentalist take.
I could get behind the idea that Ronaldo is our biggest problem were it not for the fact that these problems have been apparent for a long time before he signed. We’ve been easy to play through for an age.
My guy, please explain.
I love Ronaldo but surely you can see how much more open the attack was last year, when Cavani was head striker instead?
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