That’s probably what he’s talking about - statistically speaking there is THE key pass. But normal conversation would refer to all of those passes as «key».
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
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That’s probably what he’s talking about - statistically speaking there is THE key pass. But normal conversation would refer to all of those passes as «key».
I thought he had a good game today. Didn't get much of a sniff himself but that's what he needs to do as a front man in this formation, which is something I'm a little skeptical about his suitability for in general.
He seemed to work noticeably harder and his work to find space and lay it off was good. I think he had a slight point to prove to the manager that he shouldn't be getting taken off.
He seemed to work noticeably harder and his work to find space and lay it off was good. I think he had a slight point to prove to the manager that he shouldn't be getting taken off.
He just isn't a CF. He still loves playing off a proper striker. Left winger or Second Striker is what he clearly is.
The issue is that modern coaches generally want the wingers to contribute more in the defensive side of the game which he won't do, so they put him at CF.
The issue is that modern coaches generally want the wingers to contribute more in the defensive side of the game which he won't do, so they put him at CF.
Assuming these are actually true (not saying they aren't), this is important feedback and means much more to me that even my own opinion and everyone else's here. If they felt threatened by him constantly, fair game to Ronnie. I personally think he had a good game (not extraordinary), I thought he did well dropping back but nothing, again, mind-blowing, but if that's how the opposing coaches analysed him, maybe he actually was faring much better than I thought.
Edit: is it okay if in a post here I post several pictures? Say if I want to scrutinize some of his movements? Or is it better to link to external sites?
I know it’s not cool to say this, but I thought he played well today.
I thought it was evident in the game. We just didn't have runners behind him when he came deep. Fixed by having 3 more strikers in the dying minutes to do that and we started getting the ball into the box more.
I am not saying he did it perfectly. But, he might be useful for the team more if he decides to play like that in general instead of goal hanging up front and he has ability to do that.
I have a really hard time picturing a coach on the sidelines saying that. Not without saying f bombs in there
"bloody hell matey the focking Portuguese lad is tearin' us a new hole with his fecking positioning"
That’s a funny way to do math.
Very few players score the exact average or expected goals they accumulate. They all over- or underperform to some degree. The average npxG and average actual npg in the top 5 leagues usually ends up very close to each other (So far the average player in the PL this season is underperforming by 5%).
Ronaldo has been underperforming the most out of the top 10 goalscorers in the league. The average player in the top 10 goalscorers in the PL this season is actually overperforming their npxG by 0,75 goals this season including Ronaldo’s negative contribution to the pot. If you are underperforming your npxG by 30+% you’ve had a horrible season finishing wise, there is no way around it.
That said, I think tonights performance was one of the better ones we’ve had in a while, and I really liked that Ronaldo worked harder both defensively and offensively for 90 minutes than his usual, his link up play was better and his overall body language on the pitch was positive. It looks like he is actually working on some of the issues he’s gotten well deserved criticism on. Not a great performance from him, but if he’s playing like this at least he’s not hurting the team. West Ham created nothing playing against 11 men.
It’ll be harder for RR to bench him when he puts in that defensive effort every week. I still want us to play the youngsters though.
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This is what we've been wanting. One would need to forgive me for saying I didn't know he was still brilliant at anything outside of goal hanging like a poacher. Would also be pleased if Ralf redefined his role because that was the whole point of bringing someone more tactically detailed, as opposed to just having them figure it out after the season was lost.
Silent domination - the athletic edition
Pathethic stuff
I am not sure even Ronaldo would buy that, and he is in love with himself.
What about Telles? He won the ball and played it up into that area in the pitch in the first place.
This wasn’t Ronaldo’s worst performance, but if anyone else played his part in the build up to that goal for sure nobody would even remember who it was. Yes what he did was part of the buildup, but it was a basic 5 yard pass to martial who was right next to him.
Idk, maybe It's me then. I'm just personally expecting a player who's widely considered as one of the greatest players of all time and one who's on 450K+ a week to offer a bit more than 4 defensive headers and a pre pre assist.
Has his standards dropped so much that this is considered a good game ?
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It sounds from your wording that what you're saying is "the average npxG overperformance is 0.75."
That is consistent with what I calculated (it came to 0.68 or so in my numbers) and doesn't really affect my point at all.
The number being low is unsurprising. That is the whole point. The model is based on collective performance so by definition 'over/underperformance' for the whole set should be close to zero.
Not according to this:
That's for an entire team. For one player, the volume of shots is far lower and woud likely be closer to the 50% for 10 games.
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Do people genuinely think that someone invented a computer model that tells you how a player should have 'objectively' done and it has literally no variance, no margin of error, just perfect accuracy down to like 3 significant digits?
Only stupid people IMO.
Anyone who played the game won’t care a bit about stats in the bigger picture.
Posters talking about xG, when his only clear cut chances came in Watford game, West Ham first game and that one he was 1 on 1 with the gk. The rest of the service and quality of crosses, positions where he took the shot massively skew the data
I’d be one of the bigger Ronaldo critics but he was okay today, still hold my opinions but every performance he ever plays doesn’t deserve tremendous scrutiny, either way. We won, he was alright, let’s move onto the next challenge.
It was striking that Cristiano kept coming deep and spent a lot of the match today out of the box. He’s not doing the things he usually does to get his goals.
You got the link to this?
You're going to have to back this up.
You've been one of his biggest critics so far to, which says a lot about how he played today.
He linked up very well and why he drags defenders out of positions we need our wide men making runs in behind like elanga did for his goal midweek.
Find it alarming that he again lasted for 90 minutes when he didn't do anything for more or 89 of them. Don't get me wrong he wasn't horrible but I thought he didn't offer anything of note. We make a difficult thing harder than it must be by carrying a striker like him. Obviously from the few chances we get, I don't think there are many I wish to get on the end of these chances, but the costs are too high for my liking. Just look at Antonio today. A striker like this getting into the action all of the time, muscle'ing with our midfielders, harassing defenders... I like Ronaldo and I think he is still a great striker but ffs if it doesn't happen in 75minutes just sub him and try with Cavani...
Of course there is uncertainties with a matrix like this, but it is the best tool we have and I believe it paints fairly accurate pictures over a run of games. Do you think it is not even indicative for how well a player or team is at converting their chances to goals?
Do you think Ronaldo’s finishing has been crisp this season?
Can you to some degree agree that scoring 6 goals in 60 shots in the PL indicates that either your finishing, decisionmaking or both is not great?
It was a good performance today without scoring the goal.
People that criticises the linkup play of Cristiano fail to understand the difference between a midfielder and a CF. The most dificult position to pass and keep the ball is by far the CF position, because CF are the most controled players on the field and the ones that generally dont have other players ahead of them. you look the capacity to linkup play in this game and Cristiano is a lot better then any other player on the team today. just because he moved to easier postions, and there Cristiano is a faster, smarter, knows how to position himself to create a spaces for the team.
im sorty for him that he isnt scoring but today was one of the most complete games from him. to score more needa more help from the wingers that are not creating much.
im sorty for him that he isnt scoring but today was one of the most complete games from him. to score more needa more help from the wingers that are not creating much.
I'm sorry but what did Antonio do today? Maguire and varane ate him for breakfast. He didn't hold up the ball one time.
That's what he was doing all game. He basically played like a 10. If Bruno simplified the game as much as Ronaldo did tonight he'd be a better player over 90 minutes capable of dictating games. Lay offs, short passing, carry the ball a couple yards, get the defenders to commit and pass it to the open guy. Make it simple. It's a small yet huge difference. Ronaldo's link up especially in the 2nd half gets full marks imo.
Don't underestimate short passing especially when our other attackers have an aversion to using it. They all play like they want to be the one getting credited for scoring or directly creating the goal. As a big time Ronaldo critic tonight was great to watch.
Traditional coaches want wingers to contribute more in defensive side of the game than modern coaches. He plays striker now because he doesn't have the leg to go dribble and do skills like he used to be. His asset is off ball movement and scoring goal in the box.
He was alright. Not good by his standards, the expectation is low because the whole team has been shit for a while. I have full trust in him to be better than this for us. Maybe we should try him as a the left forward in this formation, because when he was on the ball in the 2nd half he made good use of it. At CF he rarely gets the ball facing the opposition goal and finds it hard to create.
I just want to point out that in that 2008 team, we did not have a striker who was great at holding the ball playing consistently. Saha hardly played at that point and there were debate that Rooney was not that type of striker either and always came deep to have a touch on the ball because he got frustrated alone etc. None of Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo were great at holding the ball up top alone to 'bring others into the play'.
We brought Berbetov for it and didn't work out exactly. I am a bit confused by some people ( probably too young to remember or just plain forget about it) who kept saying we need someone up there to hold up the ball. Well, there are other ways to play without having a striker who 'hold' the ball. Wide forwards have to play and link up better around themselves as a unit. Ironically, people thought RVN was sold because he was too static in the middle even though his hold-up play was good but that prevented Rooney and Ronaldo from being fluid.
I am not saying we need to create that to suit this version of Ronaldo but he or any other striker does not need to 'hold' the ball for us to play better as an attacking unit. In fact, City does not even have one doing that whenever I watched them for the past two seasons.
One touch passing with a lot of off ball movements in the forward line would be the way to go and isn't it the modern way of playing which we played back then ourselves?
We brought Berbetov for it and didn't work out exactly. I am a bit confused by some people ( probably too young to remember or just plain forget about it) who kept saying we need someone up there to hold up the ball. Well, there are other ways to play without having a striker who 'hold' the ball. Wide forwards have to play and link up better around themselves as a unit. Ironically, people thought RVN was sold because he was too static in the middle even though his hold-up play was good but that prevented Rooney and Ronaldo from being fluid.
I am not saying we need to create that to suit this version of Ronaldo but he or any other striker does not need to 'hold' the ball for us to play better as an attacking unit. In fact, City does not even have one doing that whenever I watched them for the past two seasons.
One touch passing with a lot of off ball movements in the forward line would be the way to go and isn't it the modern way of playing which we played back then ourselves?
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All I saw Antonio do was get bullied by our defence and pass the ball off the pitch a few times. He was abysmal.
He's a genius. He's figured out - yet again in his career - how to play well in a league with his declining age.
His initial approach of back to the defender or running on their shoulder was getting him rag-dolled.
Whether it's himself - or Ralf - he's figured out to just drop into the pocket far enough to make his markers think twice about following.
The game has opened up for him.
His initial approach of back to the defender or running on their shoulder was getting him rag-dolled.
Whether it's himself - or Ralf - he's figured out to just drop into the pocket far enough to make his markers think twice about following.
The game has opened up for him.
Is this Ronaldo's biggest career goal drought? He just doesn't score goals in Rangnick's team and it must be tactical as he was scoring loads for Ole (and Carrick!) and you don't drop off like a cliff like that in the space of a few weeks since Rangnick took over. It's not normal. So it must be tactical..
the only goals he's scored for Rangnick was a penalty away at Norwich and a tap-in that came off the cross bar against Burnley at home. None of those goals was created by his team-mates or any tactical masterclass by Rangnick. So really he should have 0 goals since Rangnick took over if you take away the penalty and crossbar tap-in.
it's a massive problem when your striker is not scoring goals. Especially with the Champions League coming up fast
yet none of the journalists in the press conference etc will ask Rangnick how do you get Ronaldo scoring goals again from a tactical analyst and perspective.. if this was Harry Kane they'd be asking Conte in press conferences why he's dropping so deep etc
nobody cares because the team is winning (and that's most important). But it's the elephant in the room that won't go away. Because rightly or wrongly Ronaldo is judged on goals..
someone mentioned during the game how Ronaldo looks shot of confidence.. He needed that goal today more than Rashford for his confidence. A tap in goal, penalty goal etc anything.. just to get a goal and a bit of confidence. Get that smile back.
It's a shame now there's a whole 2 week international break so it's going to get dwelled on and magnified more. Really needed a match straight away on Tuesday or Wednesday to try to get Ronaldo a goal.
the only goals he's scored for Rangnick was a penalty away at Norwich and a tap-in that came off the cross bar against Burnley at home. None of those goals was created by his team-mates or any tactical masterclass by Rangnick. So really he should have 0 goals since Rangnick took over if you take away the penalty and crossbar tap-in.
it's a massive problem when your striker is not scoring goals. Especially with the Champions League coming up fast
yet none of the journalists in the press conference etc will ask Rangnick how do you get Ronaldo scoring goals again from a tactical analyst and perspective.. if this was Harry Kane they'd be asking Conte in press conferences why he's dropping so deep etc
nobody cares because the team is winning (and that's most important). But it's the elephant in the room that won't go away. Because rightly or wrongly Ronaldo is judged on goals..
someone mentioned during the game how Ronaldo looks shot of confidence.. He needed that goal today more than Rashford for his confidence. A tap in goal, penalty goal etc anything.. just to get a goal and a bit of confidence. Get that smile back.
It's a shame now there's a whole 2 week international break so it's going to get dwelled on and magnified more. Really needed a match straight away on Tuesday or Wednesday to try to get Ronaldo a goal.
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Swap Ronaldo for a young Van Nistelrooy and the striker would still not score goals
this has nothing to do with Ronaldo's age or ageist it's purely tactical from Rangnick
look of the pictures of Rashfords goal. Where was Ronaldo? as he wasn't in the box (like Cavani, Rashford and Martial) in the 90th minute like he should be given his goal-record and experience. It commands respect.
there's no big tactical analyst or breakdown of Ronaldo's role and what Rangnick expects Ronaldo to do in this system. The journalists don't ask Rangnick about Ronaldo because he's not Harry Kane and English. Yet if they asked surely Rangnick would answer.
There's no tactical analyst by Sky, BT or Match of the Day showing a heat map of Ronaldo since Rangnick took over. They have agendas to push that Ronaldo is the problem.
this has nothing to do with Ronaldo's age or ageist it's purely tactical from Rangnick
look of the pictures of Rashfords goal. Where was Ronaldo? as he wasn't in the box (like Cavani, Rashford and Martial) in the 90th minute like he should be given his goal-record and experience. It commands respect.
there's no big tactical analyst or breakdown of Ronaldo's role and what Rangnick expects Ronaldo to do in this system. The journalists don't ask Rangnick about Ronaldo because he's not Harry Kane and English. Yet if they asked surely Rangnick would answer.
There's no tactical analyst by Sky, BT or Match of the Day showing a heat map of Ronaldo since Rangnick took over. They have agendas to push that Ronaldo is the problem.
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This is the thing, he almost always draws 2 players every time he makes any kind of sudden movement. See the panic from Fredericks & Rice with the clip of todays goal for example, or his movement away from goal for Elanga's goal at Brentford when both centre backs followed him out. He's not performing at his top level obviously but he's having massive impacts on games - and that's without even counting his constant talking on the pitch, be it talking Elanga through the game & pointing his pressing angles or something as simple as telling Maguire he had time to chest the ball down, he's constantly talking to the other players.
I thought he was very good. As a centre forward, he was doing centre forward things we were crying out for Martial and Rashford to do a couple of years ago.
I found it interesting how he was annoyed at a couple of Greenwood's decision making and Maguire's tendency to just head the ball clear with no one around him.
I found it interesting how he was annoyed at a couple of Greenwood's decision making and Maguire's tendency to just head the ball clear with no one around him.
I've love a big fancy tactical breakdown and analyst from the likes of Gary Neville, Sky and Match of the Day explaining why the greatest goal-scorer in football history isn't in the box in the 90th minute when the team is desperate of a goal.
see if they can actually spin it negatively to blame Ronaldo's age or be ageist even though against Villarreal at home a few weeks before Rangnick took over he was in the box in the 90th minute that's how he scored the winner. And Atalanta home and away etc
Rangnick is winning games so nobody cares as Ronaldo isn't Harry Kane or British but he said he plays players in their best positions.. and he isn't tactically with Ronaldo. And eventually that will come to bite the team in the bum having a striker with no confidence as he's not scoring goals.
a young prime Van Nistelrooy wouldn't score goals in this team either so it's nothing to do with age or ageist when a striker isn't in the box. Rangnick tactically since he came in and Ronaldo's goal scoring and goal output has suddenly fell of a cliff and that's not too much of a coincidence?! These journalists like Luckhurst and pundits like Gary Neville need to give the heads a wobble and smell the coffee.
see if they can actually spin it negatively to blame Ronaldo's age or be ageist even though against Villarreal at home a few weeks before Rangnick took over he was in the box in the 90th minute that's how he scored the winner. And Atalanta home and away etc
Rangnick is winning games so nobody cares as Ronaldo isn't Harry Kane or British but he said he plays players in their best positions.. and he isn't tactically with Ronaldo. And eventually that will come to bite the team in the bum having a striker with no confidence as he's not scoring goals.
a young prime Van Nistelrooy wouldn't score goals in this team either so it's nothing to do with age or ageist when a striker isn't in the box. Rangnick tactically since he came in and Ronaldo's goal scoring and goal output has suddenly fell of a cliff and that's not too much of a coincidence?! These journalists like Luckhurst and pundits like Gary Neville need to give the heads a wobble and smell the coffee.
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??
Hold on. What exactly do you think made Rooney a United legend and a world class player? Rooney was an amazing link up striker, great holding it up and great playmaking. Even with a heavy touch he always managed to retain the ball with his back to goal because he knew how to use his broad frame to shield the ball. After Ronaldo left, that one season he and Valencia struck an amazing duo many of his goals started with Rooney bringing Valencia into play. By standards relative to the position Rooney was an A+ in playmaking, hold up and link up. He was for all intents and purposes a striker and a number 10. Pretty much a complete striker.
Early in his career his ability to run at defenders started fading from getting too bulky but he compensated with brilliant hold up capabilities, that was in addition to being good at everything else as a ballplayer. How Rooney was able to remain the focal point of our frontline both when we played lightning quick around the early 10s and when we played snail pace in the mid to late 10s. Can't remember the exact years but that's the general timeframe.
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