He needs to start again. Not good enough
Cricket
- Thread starter EdWeatherall
- Start date
Those are the players I have actually watched, will leave it to you oldies to add the rest
Right about pollock, dunno how I forgot him.
He was a very good fast bowler, I was tempted to include akhtar as well
Pfft! Pfft, I say!
Very good one day bowler. Average test bowler.
Would put both Johnson and Gillespie ahead of him.
But if we are trying to determine the greatest fast bowler of all time we cant just exclude bowlers who excelled more in ODIs than tests though. It should be someone across both formats or one for each. Am not that sure about johnson, he hasnt been really hot for as long as the other guys.
Akthar is a fecking chucker. Got not time for him.
For me Wasim, Steyn and Mcgrath are the 3 best I've seen. Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar is the next tier.
Bond could have been in the discussion if not for his injuries.
For me Wasim, Steyn and Mcgrath are the 3 best I've seen. Ambrose, Walsh, Waqar is the next tier.
Bond could have been in the discussion if not for his injuries.
What about 20/20?
Umar Gul clearly needs to be included in the discussion for the greatest fast bowler of all time.
Brett Lee up at Trent Bridge in 2005 bowled one of the fastest spells I've ever seen, not an all-time great though IMO, too many injuries and was never really the main man of the attack. Obviously neither of these are his fault.
Anderson has done enough to be a part of the discussion, despite being English.
Averages 25 and a SR of 45 in tests. Not bad(in fact it's fantastic) considering he played in a batsmen's era. He ought have become a great bowler though. Can't think of another bowler who had his box office pull.
Greatest I've seen is between Marshall, Holding, Imran, Hadlee, Younis, Mcgrath, Ambrose and Akram.
Brett Lee?
Shaun Pollock is a bigger miss than Brett Lee, in my opinion.
Akhtar. If it weren't for his lifestyle he would've been a great. Lee was a good bowler, nowt more.
http://m.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/player/42655.html
An average of 25 and SR of 45. That's up there with Marshall, Younis and Steyn.
If it includes ODI's then the discussion is basically just McGrath vs Akram. Not so fun.
I was only moaning about Lee.
Yeah, Akhtar was very good when he was fit. I was at a county game where he got four top order wickets in an over. Sadly, he immediately went off injured and didn't play any further part in the match.
Bloody good over though...
So, initial work done on bowlers. Considering 20 bowlers. I have gone by top 20 wickets wise with cutoff of 249 (as Holding has 249 wickets). I know likes of Barnes will be missed and this doesn't mean following 20 only are the best 20 but let's say for cutoff of 250 wickets, they are. Removed the likes of Broad, Zaheer, Vaas, Ntini who have 250+ wickets. One reason is, they are not in same category, second, their average etc is not so special which proves first reason. Ntini, well his numbers are better than Anderson, Avg-SR-Econ wise. I am still considering Anderson in top 20 but not Ntini, because no disrespect to Ntini, we know Anderson is more quality.
Following 20 considered:
McGrath
Walsh
Kapil Dev
Hadlee
Pollock
Akram
Anderson
Ambrose
Steyn
Botham
Marshall
Waqar
Imran
Lillee
Donald
Willis
Lee
Truman
Johnson
Holding
Stats of Mcgrath and Walsh show their own peak was not 24-29
Will publish whole list with stats later.
Following 20 considered:
McGrath
Walsh
Kapil Dev
Hadlee
Pollock
Akram
Anderson
Ambrose
Steyn
Botham
Marshall
Waqar
Imran
Lillee
Donald
Willis
Lee
Truman
Johnson
Holding
Stats of Mcgrath and Walsh show their own peak was not 24-29
Will publish whole list with stats later.
The order is hurting my head. Let me arrange it chronologically according to their nations. And probably add a few who I think belong to the 'modern era'.
Australia:
Dennis Lillee
Jeff Thomson
Glen Mcgrath
Brett Lee
Mitchell Johnson
England:
John Snow
Ian Botham
Bob Willis
Darren Gough
Jimmy Anderson
India:
Kapil Dev
New Zealand:
Richard Hadlee
Pakistan:
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
South Africa:
Shaun Pollock
Allan Donald
Dale Steyn
West Indies:
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Courtney Walsh
No one makes it from Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, sorry. A couple of world class talents like Bond and Bishop miss out due to lack of longevity.
Do what you want now.
Australia:
Dennis Lillee
Jeff Thomson
Glen Mcgrath
Brett Lee
Mitchell Johnson
England:
John Snow
Ian Botham
Bob Willis
Darren Gough
Jimmy Anderson
India:
Kapil Dev
New Zealand:
Richard Hadlee
Pakistan:
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
South Africa:
Shaun Pollock
Allan Donald
Dale Steyn
West Indies:
Andy Roberts
Michael Holding
Joel Garner
Malcolm Marshall
Curtly Ambrose
Courtney Walsh
No one makes it from Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, sorry. A couple of world class talents like Bond and Bishop miss out due to lack of longevity.
Do what you want now.
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Chaminda Vaas? He's got a better claim than Zaheer Khan.
In tests? Not a chance.
Khan - 311 wickets at just under 33.
Vaas - 355 wickets at 29.5.
How can you include zaheer khan and not akhtar, gillespie,vaas?
Because Zaheer at his peak was constantly getting the likes of Hayden and Graeme Smith, providing crucial breakthroughs both with the new and the old ball, and was an absolute key figure during the years that led to India reaching number 1.
b. Because it is about tests and Zaheer didn't take steroids.
I've edited him out. I don't even care about this bullshit exercise, but that list got my OCD.
a. See above.
b. Because it is about tests and Zaheer didn't take steroids.
I've edited him out. I don't even care about this bullshit exercise, but that list got my OCD.
The Indian Mathew Hoggard, from the sounds of it. No bad thing...
Kapil Dev?? Zaheer? Christ. I actually think Srinanth is the best Indian seamer of all time. Dev was a good bowler and carried the Indian team for years but he wasn't anything special. His stats back that up as well. Besides he was no more than medium pace.
Because Zaheer at his peak was constantly getting the likes of Hayden and Graeme Smith, providing crucial breakthroughs both with the new and the old ball, and was an absolute key figure during the years that led to India reaching number 1.
a. See above.
b. Because it is about tests and Zaheer didn't take steroids.
I've edited him out. I don't even care about this bullshit exercise, but that list got my OCD.
Vaas took steroids? :O
Distinct lack of YouTube videos to prove points in here.
I'll do a proper list.
Windies.
MARSHALL!
Holding
Garner
Roberts
Ambrose
Croft
Walsh (longevity...)
England
Larwood
Statham
Snow
Trueman
Willis
Botham
Anderson
(Frank Tyson didn't play enough...)
Australia
Lindwall
Lillee
McGrath
Davidson
Johnson (not sure..)
(no Thomson, he wasn't that great...) surely there are more Aussies. Lee? No chance.
Pakistan
Imran
Akram
Younis
Mahmood
Akhtar
(I'd have Asif in there too...)
Sri Lanka
Vaas
New Zealand
Hadlee
India
Srinath
Kapil
Zimbabwe
Eddo Brandes
Windies.
MARSHALL!
Holding
Garner
Roberts
Ambrose
Croft
Walsh (longevity...)
England
Larwood
Statham
Snow
Trueman
Willis
Botham
Anderson
(Frank Tyson didn't play enough...)
Australia
Lindwall
Lillee
McGrath
Davidson
Johnson (not sure..)
(no Thomson, he wasn't that great...) surely there are more Aussies. Lee? No chance.
Pakistan
Imran
Akram
Younis
Mahmood
Akhtar
(I'd have Asif in there too...)
Sri Lanka
Vaas
New Zealand
Hadlee
India
Srinath
Kapil
Zimbabwe
Eddo Brandes
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I see that and raise you a wonderful destruction of Dale Steyn:
Lucky he plays in the same team as AB.
I've missed SA out. feck'em.
He wasn't anything special if only bowling is considered. Neither was srinath. Problem with Indian quicks is since 99 percent are a pile of shit the rare decent one starts looking better than he Is. I did put a couple of generous entries like zaheer and gough for the sake of discussion. They won't be starting for the Windies third team.
Must be the really cheap ones haha.Vaas took steroids? :O
What's it with India and a lack of truly outstanding seam / bowlers? You just want to bat...
Have you missed the context for this one? Was a non-serious suggestion, emphasising my opinion that Brett Lee's ODI career doesn't count for much in this discussion.
Err if you are going as far as larwood then you've missed shit loads of names. And surprised you mention Davidson and not miller? Miller shits on most names there.
Yep, Miller gets in.
Fkin vegetarians. Look at our meat eating beasts across the border. Akram is built like an ox.
Sydney Fkin Barnes. The myth. The legend.