Cricket

NM said:
We are getting exposed.. Poor batting catching up, and the lower order can't bail us out every time.. Probably one of the bigger upsets in recent times if NZ wins this series. Hopefully it causes the change. time for Virat, Rahul etc. to go in tests. We will struggle for a while (and AUS will probably thump us this time) but it's needed. Our batting has been terrible for years.
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Rohit needs to go as well really.
 
India aren't chasing anything over 250. This is almost finished if new Zealand get another 70 on the board
 
NM said:
In tests absolutely. It's been coming for a while. The end of a cycle.
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I'd move them all on across all 3 formats now tbh.

Next big thing on the horizon is the WT20 2026 in India. Risking Kohli and Rohit to be good enough for that seems to asking for trouble.

ODIs aren't really played much anyway so doesn't matter.
 
Skills said:
What's the best India yet 3-0'd at home and lose 5-0 to Aus?
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I think 5-0 in Australia is a lot more probable than people seem to be thinking. There's a lot of media hype about India's tour but truth is this is the first time in 3 tours we're going with 1 fast bowler. The reason we did so well was because we had 3 very good bowlers in the last two tours. The batting was still average, but enough to put 300 on the board.

Siraj has been a disappointment. He debuted brightly but he's looked like a guy who is playing the same test 30 times. He bowls 1-2 nice overs and is middling for large chunks of the game. He needs to play more domestic cricket
 
Skills said:
If India lose this series, would Rohit be India's worst test captain since the 90s?
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Dhoni is India's worst test captain and there's no competition for that. Rohit is in charge of a transition period and he's managed it pretty well. The England series win is one of India's best ever wins given the team at his disposal.

Dhoni had India's greatest ever 3, 4, 5. Virat had experienced batters and Ashwin + Jadeja at their peak. Rohit has Jaiswal, Gill, Sarfraz, KL and Dhruv Jurel.
 
Skills said:
That'll happen naturally imo, bowlers don't get anywhere near as long a leash as batsmen.
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You're right but I think these two will, due to being handy with the bat, and thus (occasionally) bailing out the batsmen. Symbiotic relationship between these two and the oldie batsmen above.
 
Skills said:
If India lose this series, would Rohit be India's worst test captain since the 90s?
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I don't think its even close, the lower order and the bowling bailed his ass out against england and bang bros, sadly father time has finally come for jadeja and ashwin and they can't bail him out vs nz.
 
zing said:
Dhoni is India's worst test captain and there's no competition for that. Rohit is in charge of a transition period and he's managed it pretty well. The England series win is one of India's best ever wins given the team at his disposal.

Dhoni had India's greatest ever 3, 4, 5. Virat had experienced batters and Ashwin + Jadeja at their peak. Rohit has Jaiswal, Gill, Sarfraz, KL and Dhruv Jurel.
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He also had one of india's worst ever pace attack and that 3,4,5 was on its last legs when those 4-0's happened. But atleast they were on foreign soil, and his only lost series in india came against a team that was actually good and ended up winning nearly everywhere in the world, he wasn't getting destroyed by a team that Sri Lanka wiped the floor with just a week before this series.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Ashwin and Jadeja this match so far with the ball - 70 overs 231 runs and 4 wickets.
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This has been coming for a while now, neither has looked great for a while with the ball and have lucked out a fair bit, sadly i don't think the current management will have the balls to drop both and pick axar and kuldeep, it still amazes me we dropped the guy nz couldn't read on the first test pitch.
 
SmallCaine said:
He also had one of india's worst ever pace attack and that 3,4,5 was on its last legs when those 4-0's happened. But atleast they were on foreign soil, and his only lost series in india came against a team that was actually good and ended up winning nearly everywhere in the world, he wasn't getting destroyed by a team that Sri Lanka wiped the floor with just a week before this series.
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you are clueless about cricket if you’re comparing the team Dhoni captained to this one.
 
zing said:
you are clueless about cricket if you’re comparing the team Dhoni captained to this one.
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Dhoni had a worse team than this one when he faced england in that home series, man for man this is a better team, with a much more proven batting and bowling attack and they are taking on a much worse team than that england side, if you are comparing the 2012 team and this team and think this is somehow worse, you are the clueless one.
 
SmallCaine said:
Dhoni had a worse team than this one when he faced england in that home series, man for man this is a better team, with a much more proven batting and bowling attack and they are taking on a much worse team than that england side, if you are comparing the 2012 team and this team and think this is somehow worse, you are the clueless one.
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no one is saying this specific series team is better or worse than 2012 England. Not only are you clueless, you distort words to make strange arguments. Captaincies aren’t judged based on a sample size of 2 matches.
 
I remember when Dravid and Shastri were here coach, there used to be calls from fans to get rid of them. On the verge of a series defeat at home, I’m surprised no one is even looking at the current coaching staff.

Also, how does this potential defeat at home impact India’s chances for the World Test Championship?
 
zing said:
no one is saying this specific series team is better or worse than 2012 England. Not only are you clueless, you distort words to make strange arguments. Captaincies aren’t judged based on a sample size of 2 matches.
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Dhoni was not a great test captain but your argument that he is the worst one is what is clueless, captaincies are judged on quality of team and result achieved, when dhoni had a great team he won a series in nz a feat last achieved by an indian team in 1960's and something even kohli's team failed at, we also drew a series in south africa, at home only team we lost a series to was england the same team that destroyed australia in australia at that time, yes we got demolished by england and australia away, which is why he wasn't a great captain but again, do you really expect the all beating attack of a crocked zaheer khan, praveen kumar and bhuvi supported by likes of umesh yadav and ishant before his resurgence to really compete in australia and england.

What exactly has rohit achieved that makes him better than dhoni, beating england, a team which can't play the greats like nauman ali and sajid khan, huffing and puffing to 2-1 series win against australia because he was too chicken to risk a loss and finals humiliation, rohit has to be one of the worst captain's india has had, atleast the teams in the 90's were plain bad and even they were more dominant in their games and didn't need as many rescue acts as this current one needs. Even the england series had lower order and the bowling attack just carrying this team. We are about to be thrashed by a team that SL toyed with just couple of weeks ago, who are missing their best batsman and 2 of their 3 man spin attack consists of a guy who averaged 50 with the ball in asia until this match and a wicket keeper
 
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SmallCaine said:
Dhoni was not a great test captain but your argument that he is the worst one is what is clueless, captaincies are judged on quality of team and result achieved, when dhoni had a great team he won a series in nz a feat last achieved by an indian team in 1960's and something even kohli's team failed at, we also drew a series in south africa, at home only team we lost a series to was england the same team that destroyed australia in australia at that time, yes we got demolished by england and australia away, which is why he wasn't a great captain but again, do you really expect the all beating attack of a crocked zaheer khan, praveen kumar and bhuvi supported by likes of umesh yadav and ishant before his resurgence to really compete in australia and england.

What exactly has rohit achieved that makes him better than dhoni, beating england, a team which can't play the greats like nauman ali and sajid khan, huffing and puffing to 2-1 series win against australia because he was too chicken to risk a loss and finals humiliation, rohit has to be one of the worst captain's india has had, atleast the teams in the 90's were plain bad and even they were more dominant in their games and didn't need as many rescue acts as this current one needs. Even the england series had lower order and the bowling attack just carrying this team. We are about to be thrashed by a team that SL toyed with just couple of weeks ago, who are missing their best batsman and 2 of their 3 man spin attack consists of a guy who averaged 50 with the ball in asia until this match and a wicket keeper
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I actually watched the matches. I didn't load cricinfo once at stumps to find the latest thing to whinge about

Dhoni won at home between 2009 and 2011 with Sachin in some of the best form of his life - he averaged 70 in 2 of those years. Dravid had his second wind - between 2009 and 2011 he averaged 60. Laxman between 2009 and 2011 averaged 50 - five points above his overall average. With a team like that and two competent spinners, no Indian side would lose at home even if captained by a sack of potatoes. The idea that Sachin, Dravid and Dhoni were past it during Dhoni's is preposterous. They had Sehwag and Gambhir opening - who were very formidable at home. The 2012 series, most were past it. No one is saying that was Dhoni's fault.

Dhoni away - true that he had bad fast bowlers, but there's a wide range of outcomes between "no fast bowlers" and being thumped 4-0 nearly every time, with insipid captaincy. Extremely defensive tactics - games lost due to likes of Swann, Broad, Pattinson putting up scores. Virat took over the same set of fast bowlers and made them very competitive.

We won in NZ because they rolled out the flattest pitches seen in NZ in 40 years. Even Gambhir who was no good away made a double there. You should throw in "Won in WI" as a false equivalence to the 80s while you're at it.

Rohit, by contrast, has captained for a limited period of time. I wouldn't call him a great captain or a good captain - the sample size is small. But his teams often have players with < 10 games. Jaiswal, Sarfraz, Jurel, Akash Deep, Sundar, Mukesh, Gill(to an extent). India won 4-1 against England in probably India's toughest series of the last 20-25 years given the players available and the quality of the opponents. He should be recognised as a transition captain who is doing a good job. You cannot win every match. NZ are a good side.
 
zing said:
I actually watched the matches. I didn't load cricinfo once at stumps to find the latest thing to whinge about

Dhoni won at home between 2009 and 2011 with Sachin in some of the best form of his life - he averaged 70 in 2 of those years. Dravid had his second wind - between 2009 and 2011 he averaged 60. Laxman between 2009 and 2011 averaged 50 - five points above his overall average. With a team like that and two competent spinners, no Indian side would lose at home even if captained by a sack of potatoes. The idea that Sachin, Dravid and Dhoni were past it during Dhoni's is preposterous. They had Sehwag and Gambhir opening - who were very formidable at home. The 2012 series, most were past it. No one is saying that was Dhoni's fault.

Dhoni away - true that he had bad fast bowlers, but there's a wide range of outcomes between "no fast bowlers" and being thumped 4-0 nearly every time, with insipid captaincy. Extremely defensive tactics - games lost due to likes of Swann, Broad, Pattinson putting up scores. Virat took over the same set of fast bowlers and made them very competitive.

We won in NZ because they rolled out the flattest pitches seen in NZ in 40 years. Even Gambhir who was no good away made a double there. You should throw in "Won in WI" as a false equivalence to the 80s while you're at it.

Rohit, by contrast, has captained for a limited period of time. I wouldn't call him a great captain or a good captain - the sample size is small. But his teams often have players with < 10 games. Jaiswal, Sarfraz, Jurel, Akash Deep, Sundar, Mukesh, Gill(to an extent). India won 4-1 against England in probably India's toughest series of the last 20-25 years given the players available and the quality of the opponents. He should be recognised as a transition captain who is doing a good job. You cannot win every match. NZ are a good side.
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We were a bit short handed in batting department due to injuries but in no way was that our toughest series just because we made it look tough, that aus series in 2017 and even the recent one once cummins left had better teams which needed us to play at our best not play down to the opposition, england are a crap team that came in with rookie spinners who had never played a test match most didn't even have enough first class experience and made us sweat for every win, that tells you everything about rohit and his captaincy,
also for a guy who "watches the matches and not the score card you really must not be watching much, just last game, nz are 250 for 7 and rohit completely botched the game with what can only be called real life autoplay mode captaincy, not bowling bumrah or trying to set aggressive fields has nothing to do with transition, even this game, you have a new guy batting and he has 5 fielders on the boundary giving up easy singles letting no pressure be built because of what happened last game, i agree dhoni was a defensive captain but rohit makes him look practically kohliesque with the display he has put on, same thing happened in the england series, once england attacked our bowlers, anytime the opposition counter attacks he basically gives up and hopes someone will do something with no input from his side, he reminds me of ETH, start with a plan and when it doesn't work as expected do nothing, hope it sorts itself out, it works when you have a talented team much better than others like he did early in his MI years or when india face likes of bangladesh, doesn't when you have teams with some fight and your players can't pull rabbits out of their hat.

Also NZ are not a good team in Asian conditions, this team didn't just lose to sl couple of weeks ago, this is the team that couldn't beat a pak team that had lost 4 of their last 6 tests at home before, they are legit bad team when it comes to playing spin, they hadn't won a single series in asia since 2018.
 
SmallCaine said:
We were a bit short handed in batting department due to injuries but in no way was that our toughest series just because we made it look tough, that aus series in 2017 and even the recent one once cummins left had better teams which needed us to play at our best not play down to the opposition, england are a crap team that came in with rookie spinners who had never played a test match most didn't even have enough first class experience and made us sweat for every win, that tells you everything about rohit and his captaincy,
also for a guy who "watches the matches and not the score card you really must not be watching much, just last game, nz are 250 for 7 and rohit completely botched the game with what can only be called real life autoplay mode captaincy, not bowling bumrah or trying to set aggressive fields has nothing to do with transition, even this game, you have a new guy batting and he has 5 fielders on the boundary giving up easy singles letting no pressure be built because of what happened last game, i agree dhoni was a defensive captain but rohit makes him look practically kohliesque with the display he has put on, same thing happened in the england series, once england attacked our bowlers, anytime the opposition counter attacks he basically gives up and hopes someone will do something with no input from his side, he reminds me of ETH, start with a plan and when it doesn't work as expected do nothing, hope it sorts itself out, it works when you have a talented team much better than others like he did early in his MI years or when india face likes of bangladesh, doesn't when you have teams with some fight and your players can't pull rabbits out of their hat.

Also NZ are not a good team in Asian conditions, this team didn't just lose to sl couple of weeks ago, this is the team that couldn't beat a pak team that had lost 4 of their last 6 tests at home before, they are legit bad team when it comes to playing spin, they hadn't won a single series in asia since 2018.
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Can you format this so that I can read and reply
 
Easy blame will go to ashwin jadeja as always when the real culprits are rohit (piss poor batting plus captaincy) and kohli. This defeat was coming with the way we have been batting for last some years
 
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