Could we please start investing in PL-proven talents again?

That assumes that our scouts and transfer team can get us good bargains.

There are bargains available from the EPL teams. Just don't think we have the nous to get those done whether we hire EPL proven players or we hire from outside.

Teams get good transfers done. We really don't.
 
It's all the more imperative that we have a coach with a definite style of play, it makes identification of players much more easier.

For example , a player with a similar profile as Murillo at Forest makes good sense for us. He's used to be playing in a relatively similar role at CB as what's expected from our CBs. A Murillo isn't viable for us probably because forest would ask for an arm and a leg. But there is enough tech help etc around nowadays to see and scout defenders who can do that. By all means , get Murillo if the price is right. But otherwise , get ready for viable alternatives before hand. This is just an example.
 
Well we're comparing Premier League players to players from Europe in terms of cost.

If we can only count players who are definitely good enough based on posters subjective opinions this becomes a much shorter and trickier conversation.

Onana not good enough, yeah OK. Casemiro also not good enough. But also more expensive, higher wages, 8 years older, no sell on fee.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing in any one way but ultimately there's no way United can have their primary transfer focus being overseas players who cost less than £30million. No manager will get long enough to make that work.
The original point was that we need 14-16 new players. Young, hungry, fast, strong, athletic players.

12+ of those don't need to be superstars. They need to be good players, sure...but with the right coach, the right profile and the right attitude, a squad with 20 players who are 7.5/10 (but the right profile) can be very successful. Liverpool have shown this.

What you then need is the superstars. Liverpool again a good example. Built a fit, athletic, functional side, and spent £160m on the best goalkeeper and the best CB available...but only when they had the foundations in-place.

We can't do that now. Opportunity cost is too high. Spend £160m on two players and they'd be the only two players we could afford to buy that Summer.

We also need to recognise that profile is more important than some arbitrary, subjective notion of talent / ability. Martinez is 5ft 9" and slow. For those reasons, he's out. Automatically. Eriksen can't run. He's out. Bruno is weak and slow. He's out. Rashford is weak and lazy. He's out. Etc...
 
Sometimes, forums like this are a great place to test a hypothesis, and I can see mine didn’t hold up under scrutiny. After reading the feedback, I’d like to revise my argument as follows:

1. Focus on players who have proven themselves at a high level for a decent period of time—ideally those who have logged 5,000+ minutes in a top-five league. This includes stars like Kevin De Bruyne, Rodri, Mohamed Salah, Alisson, Roberto Firmino, Joško Gvardiol, John Stones, Raheem Sterling, Joël Matip, and Gabriel at Arsenal. These examples represent the bulk of the major investments made by Arsenal, City, and Liverpool.

2. Avoid paying big money for players with limited top-level success—either because they’ve only had a few strong seasons or limited playing time (e.g., Aaron Wan-Bissaka, Joshua Zirkzee), or because they come from a lower-level league and haven’t demonstrated the necessary consistency at the highest standard (e.g., Antony, Lisandro Martínez, Darwin Núñez).


3. Never hand out expensive contracts to players who will have little to no resale value by the time the deal ends. We’ve seen this with Zlatan, Sánchez, Matic, Falcao, Casemiro, and Varane. Occasionally, these signings work out, but more often than not, they’re costly short-term fixes with diminishing returns.

4. Be very cautious about recruiting from elite clubs, as it typically requires offering very high wages—significantly increasing risk if the player doesn’t adapt or fails to meet expectations. A bloated salary structure can also undermine squad harmony and long-term sustainability.

5. If you deviate from these rules, do so for exceptional talents or reasonable deals. Think Bruno Fernandes in the first bracket, or Tyrell Malacia, Amad Diallo, and Facundo Pellistri in the second. The latter category involves smaller fees or salaries that the club can likely recoup—or even profit from—later on.

Furthermore, ensuring players fit the overarching philosophy and style of play is paramount. A cohesive identity—tactically and culturally—matters more than rigid age brackets. Physicality is also crucial in the Premier League, so signings from other leagues must be able to handle its rigors. Ideally, steer clear of those who lack “extreme” physical attributes (e.g., Juan Mata, Lisandro Martínez, Jadon Sancho, Antony, Victor Lindelöf), as their lower threshold in this area can undermine performance. While the club might miss out on the next Eden Hazard or Paul Scholes, it also avoids the risk of repeated misfires.

Ultimately, the guiding principle should be a balance between proven performance, physical and tactical suitability, and alignment with the club’s philosophy. Age itself is secondary to clear evidence that a player can thrive under the demands at Manchester United.

Better? Can I send this to Jimmy?
 
I’d love us to look at the Championship more. I know the club would turn their noses up at the thought but we are a mid table club now and it shouldn’t be beneath us. We’ve been happy to sign all these duds from the Dutch league over the years despite the Championship being a far superior league for talent and Championship players significantly outperforming Eredivisie players.

Toney, Watkins, Eze, Oliseh, Mbeumo, etc were all easily identifiable as standout talents when they were in the Championship.
And the conveyer belt will continue. Bellingham at Sunderland, Cooper at Sheff Utd, Mason Clark at Coventry. Hackney at Boro. Whittaker at Plymouth. They’ll all probs be in the Prem in a few years one way or another.
 
Physicality is also crucial in the Premier League, so signings from other leagues must be able to handle its rigors. Ideally, steer clear of those who lack “extreme” physical attributes (e.g., Juan Mata, Lisandro Martínez, Jadon Sancho, Antony, Victor Lindelöf), as their lower threshold in this area can undermine performance.

Just saw Chelsea and were reminded of the Nkunku-hype on here. Think it is a bit of a similar case. Was very good in Bundesliga. Just dont have the physique in the PL. Lacks pace and intensity. A bit like Sancho, but less talented.
 
A good start could be players who have proved themselves in
  • La Liga,
  • Bundesliga,
  • Serie A or
  • Premier League

NOT
  • Eredivisie
  • Liga Portugal
  • Or similar ;)
 
A good start could be players who have proved themselves in
  • La Liga,
  • Bundesliga,
  • Serie A or
  • Premier League

NOT
  • Eredivisie
  • Liga Portugal
  • Or similar ;)

None of our signings from Serie A have worked out. Argument could be made for Pogba only, but the rest haven’t been good.
 
Since we’re entertaining the idea, who are the proven PL playing for the other mid table clubs that would be worth a punt? Milos Kerkez stands out as one and fits a positional need. I also like what I see from Mbeumo at Brentford as a forward who could actually score. Cunha is another. The 3 combined though will probably cost north of £150 million. Would love to hear the other options out there.
 
The original point was that we need 14-16 new players. Young, hungry, fast, strong, athletic players.

12+ of those don't need to be superstars. They need to be good players, sure...but with the right coach, the right profile and the right attitude, a squad with 20 players who are 7.5/10 (but the right profile) can be very successful. Liverpool have shown this.

What you then need is the superstars. Liverpool again a good example. Built a fit, athletic, functional side, and spent £160m on the best goalkeeper and the best CB available...but only when they had the foundations in-place.

We can't do that now. Opportunity cost is too high. Spend £160m on two players and they'd be the only two players we could afford to buy that Summer.

We also need to recognise that profile is more important than some arbitrary, subjective notion of talent / ability. Martinez is 5ft 9" and slow. For those reasons, he's out. Automatically. Eriksen can't run. He's out. Bruno is weak and slow. He's out. Rashford is weak and lazy. He's out. Etc...
Totally agree. It really doesn't matter if they are EPL proven, statistics should be able to tell how fast is the player, how high he jumps, how many times he is physically brush off, how many times he loses a ball. I pretty sure that there are a few championship player that can make a step up. I would make sure our scout are watching the games to identify 20-23 yo players that meet our profile. United needs to total revamp, we don't need another 5-6 Portuguese players because our manager is from Portugal. Stop buying players from league that the manager comes from. Antony, Martinez, Malacia, Onana, Hoijund, Zirkzee are players that I haven't even heard of and United bought because manager has worked with them before. They don't even have what it takes to play in EPL and yet we spent millions in transfer. Something is seriously wrong with the hierarchy of this club. Time for a reset!
 
A good start could be players who have proved themselves in
  • La Liga,
  • Bundesliga,
  • Serie A or
  • Premier League

NOT
  • Eredivisie
  • Liga Portugal
  • Or similar ;)
I would prioritise Championship and EPL over other leagues. If we ever get players from other league, they need to be strong and athletic with minimum height requirements in each position. That's the minimum.
 
Since we’re entertaining the idea, who are the proven PL playing for the other mid table clubs that would be worth a punt? Milos Kerkez stands out as one and fits a positional need. I also like what I see from Mbeumo at Brentford as a forward who could actually score. Cunha is another. The 3 combined though will probably cost north of £150 million. Would love to hear the other options out there.
Antoine Semenyo might be an option at the right price. Morgan Rogers and Morgan Gibbs-White are two ball-carrying 10s with an eye for a pass who I think would improve us in the short/medium term.

None of the players mentioned really inspire though, bar Cunha who I think is really good and could be a very good player for a top side.

The problem with players like Wissa, Gibbs-White, Semenyo and Mbeumo is they play in functional sides where the emphasis is on press and transition, not possession and dominating territory.

Kerkez is a good, young aggressive fullback, but haven't seen much of him on the ball / going forward. I'll have to keep an eye out in his next few games.

Tyler Dibling at Southampton looks a top talent but he's another young lad that'd be a 'project'. Could we also look at Harwood-Bellis? Can't say I have seen a tonne of him...bit of a guess really, but right 'profile'.

I still think Branthwaite would be a great option to succeed Martinez at LCB, even allowing for the fact he's made a few mistakes this season.
 
Juan Mata was 25 when he joined,
Fellaini was 26,
Maguire 26,
Wan Bissaka 21.

All big money transfers from PL clubs in a good age group (Maguire at the time a world record for a CB), none of them worth it.
But they're all the wrong profile.

Mata, a technical player who is very slow.
Fellani, a clogger
Maguire, only would suit a team well who plays a low block
Wan Bissaka, has no business being in a possession technical team

The poster's point was the players should all suit a specific style.

Moyes - negative football
LVG- likes possession
Jose- likes defensive football
Ole- likes counter attack
ETH- no idea
Amorim - current manager

The managers represent the same scatter gun approach as the player. The result? The United teams are a mish-mash, representing multiple different styles with players who don't fit one style and hence can never gel under one method. The result is the current team.

People are criticising Amorim for aiming to buy people to fit 343. Now the club must have known about this when they got him, in which case he must be backed and also given a chance to get rid of players who don't suit this style. But again it shows how bad decision making is at the top, it shouldn't be strictly about one formation. But a general style which can be adopted by the next manager too, see Liverpool as an example.
 
We'll need to be smart and look for low-cost replacements while removing deadweight. We've got a squad full of square pegs for round holes.

As much as possible, promote from the academy. Look to see good hires from the City,Chelsea & Arsenal academies as well. Removing the existing deadweight(Either by selling them or by letting their contracts run out) gives us the ability to work for better transfers in the future.

We'll need atleast 2 players from the academy(excluding Mainoo/Amad) and 2-3 hired from the other academies who can slot into the first team after the first season. By the end of this season or even January in some cases, We should be getting the likes of Casemiro, Rashford, Eriksen, Maguire, Lindelof, Bayindir, Evans out. Anyone extra like Zirkzee , Martinez , Antony (Preferably with some reasonable money) would give us some more funds to play around with.

It's then important that we do not go into the transfer market swinging those wages around as those unreasonable wages are what got us into this mess. Get players out, get hardworking players in place of them. We will have to put up with quite a lot of Pain. But even limited players (who work hard and are suited to the system) perform better when the system is present.
This would let go of quite a lot of deadweight hopefully allowing us to sign better players in Amorim's second winter window or his second's summer window.

The academy needs to be playing with the same tactics as the first team. I saw bits of the matches against West Ham for our U21 team and they are still playing with a 4-2-3-1. That's not done. We can't be having one set of tactics for the first team and totally different tactics for the academy. Look at how our rivals academies play their football. They closely align with the strategies that are based for the senior team. Need not exactly be the same but The idea being that at the worst case, in terms of a sudden injury crisis, A youth prospect can come in and see some minutes out in a senior level game. No one should be caring about the results for the U21 team. It's all about player development.

We do have a good academy but the goals of the academy need to be aligned with the goals of the first team.
 
Under Ferguson for a period of 10 years or more we bought the best or nearly best player in their position in the league regularly


Yorke
Cantona
Ferdinand
Rooney
RVP

We then added youth and some signings from overseas (many of which didn’t work out).

If we had copied that same strategy over the last ten years it would have possibly meant buying

Kane
Rice
Mane
Jota
Van dyk

The problem is the power has shifted so we are competing against four big sides to land these types of players nowadays so it is much harder.

We know over the last 20 years that buying from the Dutch league has a much lower conversion rate. Sometimes it works (Ruud) and sometimes you get a kezman type signing that Chelsea got.

Forget managers, the teams that buy the best players (not spend the most money)
Win leagues. Managers add that 2/3 % to the group once the players are there.

The magic is in the recruitment. We always bought the best players; I can count on one hand through the 90s and 2000s the number of big players that didn’t come to us and went to other PL clubs (shearer etc)

There are a lot of other factors but this is why we are getting played off the park by wolves and Bournemouth. We haven’t got the best players at the moment mix that with stroppy players like rashford who don’t want to take a telling off and get their heads down and that’s why we are where we are.

1st Job - stop conceeding goals
2nd Job bring in a proven number nine

Then onto the next phase once we have done this.
 
Wouldn't cunha fit this, two seasons now he has hit double digits in goals as a wide player and physically he is clearly no pushover like half of our players
 
2. Avoid paying big money for players with limited top-level success—either because they’ve only had a few strong seasons or limited playing time (e.g., Aaron Wan-Bissaka, Joshua Zirkzee), or because they come from a lower-level league and haven’t demonstrated the necessary consistency at the highest standard (e.g., Antony, Lisandro Martínez, Darwin Núñez).
I do agree with your point that we need to be careful signing players with limited experience or only 1/2 productive seasons. However, if we followed this approach exclusively then arguably we wouldn’t have signed Ronaldo or Nani. They had one and two seasons under their belts in Liga Portugal. They’d flashed potential and we took a risk on them. Sometimes those signings work, other times they don’t.
A good start could be players who have proved themselves in
  • La Liga,
  • Bundesliga,
  • Serie A or
  • Premier League

NOT
  • Eredivisie
  • Liga Portugal
  • Or similar ;)
Yes, you need to be careful and selective signing players from certain leagues in Europe, but you can find top quality players in those leagues. For example, Nistelrooy had two prolific seasons at PSV in Eredivisie and was an excellent signing. We signed a young Cristiano Ronaldo from Liga Portugal. Both players had great careers here.

How many great players have we signed from Serie A? Silvestre? Pogba? It’s not an amazing list when you look down our signings from that league. So it’s all about being selective and you also need a bit of luck for the signings to work out.
 
However, if we followed this approach exclusively then arguably we wouldn’t have signed Ronaldo or Nani.

At the time, Ronaldo was close to ten percent of our revenue. That would equal around £50 mill today. Not that different from Yoro, actually.

Tbh, I’m really not sure it would be a smart strategy in the long run. More a gamble that paid off. With a few significant difference;

- We where in a better state to make that kind of gamble at the time.
- Recruitment where more of a gamle back then with less information and more «eye test». And we had two of the best pair of eyes in the game.

In other words, I would probably prefer that we did not spend £50 mill next summer on an unproven talent from Portugal. Even if you told me he was really good.
 
We keep signing players who haven't even proven all that much in the leagues we are signing them from, and spending huge amounts of money on what amount to gambles. Diallo, Hojlund, Antony are all examples of this: their numbers were below average even for their leagues and here we are getting rinsed signing them. That's not to say that it's always a bad idea to gamble but what Ferguson would usually do is spend big on someone premier league proven, but then spend a gamble on someone from a lower league that had generally ripped that league apart, and it usually worked.
 
Wouldn't cunha fit this, two seasons now he has hit double digits in goals as a wide player and physically he is clearly no pushover like half of our players
Yeah he seems like a no brainer at the right price. I expect he’ll cost £60m minimum though (maybe slightly less if Wolves go down) so he won’t be cheap but if we want a low-risk signing at the start of his prime who will fit our system like a glove, then we should go all out for him.
 
Yeah he seems like a no brainer at the right price. I expect he’ll cost £60m minimum though (maybe slightly less if Wolves go down) so he won’t be cheap but if we want a low-risk signing at the start of his prime who will fit our system like a glove, then we should go all out for him.
This is what I don't get. People are saying that he'd be too expensive because he's at an English club.

We've signed Hojlund for 70, Sancho for 80, Antony for 80. We overspend regardless of where the player plays. We signed Hojlund after one season and 32 appearances in serie A for 70 mill.
 
This is what I don't get. People are saying that he'd be too expensive because he's at an English club.

We've signed Hojlund for 70, Sancho for 80, Antony for 80. We overspend regardless of where the player plays. We signed Hojlund after one season and 32 appearances in serie A for 70 mill.
He's a 25 year old, who only started performing on his current level a year ago. Claiming that him being a success is some sort of a sure thing is just pure saying stuff for the sake of saying it.
 
He's a 25 year old, who only started performing on his current level a year ago. Claiming that him being a success is some sort of a sure thing is just pure saying stuff for the sake of saying it.
And yet we've spent more on players that have never even performed at Cunhas current level in weaker leagues....

This is exactly my point, people have become obsessed with becoming a Dortmund or an Ajax or a Sporting, buy decent young talents and build a team around them. Only we're spending prem proven money on them and not the 10-30 mill price range Sporting, Dortmund and Ajax spend.

I don't mind giving a Zirkzee or an Amad time, considering the price tag. But we're the only team in the world that will spend 70+ mill on a player and not expect a minimum level of performance straight away, it's a joke.
 
Since we’re entertaining the idea, who are the proven PL playing for the other mid table clubs that would be worth a punt? Milos Kerkez stands out as one and fits a positional need. I also like what I see from Mbeumo at Brentford as a forward who could actually score. Cunha is another. The 3 combined though will probably cost north of £150 million. Would love to hear the other options out there.
All 3 would be excellent additions but this assumes:
- their club is willing to sell
- United are their preferred destination.
 
I’d love us to look at the Championship more. I know the club would turn their noses up at the thought but we are a mid table club now and it shouldn’t be beneath us. We’ve been happy to sign all these duds from the Dutch league over the years despite the Championship being a far superior league for talent and Championship players significantly outperforming Eredivisie players.

Toney, Watkins, Eze, Oliseh, Mbeumo, etc were all easily identifiable as standout talents when they were in the Championship.
And the conveyer belt will continue. Bellingham at Sunderland, Cooper at Sheff Utd, Mason Clark at Coventry. Hackney at Boro. Whittaker at Plymouth. They’ll all probs be in the Prem in a few years one way or another.
I agree. We have a league which can be easily scouted and there are some diamonds to be found. The wages wouldn’t be a problem either.
 
This is exactly my point, people have become obsessed with becoming a Dortmund or an Ajax or a Sporting, buy decent young talents and build a team around them. Only we're spending prem proven money on them and not the 10-30 mill price range Sporting, Dortmund and Ajax spend.
Or Real Madrid, Arsenal, Liverpool, City. This has been a massive part of the strategy for a long time now not just for eternal intermediate clubs.
 
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This is what I don't get. People are saying that he'd be too expensive because he's at an English club.

We've signed Hojlund for 70, Sancho for 80, Antony for 80. We overspend regardless of where the player plays. We signed Hojlund after one season and 32 appearances in serie A for 70 mill.
Agree, the Hojlund transfer was mental looking back. 70 mill for half a season of above average but unspectacular performances in Serie A was crazy business.
As was Antony of course.

Sancho was different and his failure was definitely not due to a lack of talent but we should have done better due diligence on his character and mentality. I don’t think we make that signing under Fergie out it that way.

As other posters have said, it’s all about balance in terms of shopping abroad or locally. But I do think we need to play it a bit safer for the next couple of windows as we simply can’t afford anymore £70-80m mistakes.
 
Agree, the Hojlund transfer was mental looking back. 70 mill for half a season of above average but unspectacular performances in Serie A was crazy business.
As was Antony of course.

Sancho was different and his failure was definitely not due to a lack of talent but we should have done better due diligence on his character and mentality. I don’t think we make that signing under Fergie out it that way.

As other posters have said, it’s all about balance in terms of shopping abroad or locally. But I do think we need to play it a bit safer for the next couple of windows as we simply can’t afford anymore £70-80m mistakes.
Absolutely brutal decision given we could’ve went for Osimhen instead. Unfortunately the Mason Mount fee was prohibitive and prevented that from happening. Our recruitment is so shambolic to the point of it being spectacularly hilarious. What else can you do but laugh. I suppose the good news is that our recruitment wasn’t so bad last summer but still not good enough. We will have to hit on at least 80% of transfers moving forward if we want to be relevant again.
 
Absolutely brutal decision given we could’ve went for Osimhen instead. Unfortunately the Mason Mount fee was prohibitive and prevented that from happening. Our recruitment is so shambolic to the point of it being spectacularly hilarious. What else can you do but laugh. I suppose the good news is that our recruitment wasn’t so bad last summer but still not good enough. We will have to hit on at least 80% of transfers moving forward if we want to be relevant again.

Napoli wanted £150m for Osimhen, when we bought Hojlund as he was coming off a great season that year after helping them win the league.
 
Turns out we had a decent PL player in Elanga and we let him go to Forest.
 
Dibling is young, but we should be all over him, although I do agree that it's time to start bringing established players in.
 
I understand both sides of this argument.

In reality you need a bit of both. I think the main issue we have is that for too long we've had the wrong type of character in the dressing room. There are absolutely loads of talented football players out there but we need the ones that actually care.

The latest link to Osimhen fills me with despair. He has already turned down a move to Chelsea because he wants a massive financial offer.

The opening post mentioned Liverpool. The key thing about the players they signed is that they all have the right personality,character and drive. Alisson, Salah, Van Dijk, Robertson, Milner and Henderson to name just a few. When you look at their squad it's full of players that have the right attitude and always give 100% commitment.

Mourinho called it a long long time ago now. There are too many bad apples in this club. It does feel like we are finally starting to remove them all, but we need to ensure that we replace them with players that actually want to prove themselves.
This bit always gets me. People constantly repeat it as if it's been the same playing cast for 11 years.

Who do you mean? Pogba, Lingard, Di Maria ? All long gone?
Rashford? He's not even playing, it can't all be his fault?
Bruno? Who whatever anyone says can't deny he works tirelessly.

Shaw? For what, having the temerity to get injured.

Or do you mean behind the scenes? As obviously yes the Glazers are still there, but at least they make fewer football decisions now we have this (coughs) best in class management structure.
 
This bit always gets me. People constantly repeat it as if it's been the same playing cast for 11 years.

Who do you mean? Pogba, Lingard, Di Maria ? All long gone?
Rashford? He's not even playing, it can't all be his fault?
Bruno? Who whatever anyone says can't deny he works tirelessly.

Shaw? For what, having the temerity to get injured.

Or do you mean behind the scenes? As obviously yes the Glazers are still there, but at least they make fewer football decisions now we have this (coughs) best in class management structure.

This is how it often unfolds: one person makes a statement, the media picks it up, amplifies it, and soon everyone else falls in line.
 
This is how it often unfolds: one person makes a statement, the media picks it up, amplifies it, and soon everyone else falls in line.
And while we all know the Glazers are wronguns, it seems to be their fault entirely that we get every single transfer wrong and can't get a functioning team for longer than 6 months. Despite the reality being that they haven't really got a clue who these players are and are guided by the "football" people, signing off massive fees.
Who all seem to get it wrong themselves.
 
He's a 25 year old, who only started performing on his current level a year ago. Claiming that him being a success is some sort of a sure thing is just pure saying stuff for the sake of saying it.
Could it be he has now developed to his potential, 25 is relatively young and our fanbase is often saying we should give our youngsters time to develop into their mid 20's, it's also been two seasons in a row now that he has delivered for a lower table side, the most impressive thing about him is his physicality, he's built for the epl, how many players in our current side can you day that about, even hojlund is a relative pushover for defenders.
 
Gibbs-white is another one I think could be a starter for a top 6 side and he is still only 24, as well as being physically able to handle the epl
 
Or had he stayed here, he wouldn't be performing anywhere near the level he is performing at Forest.
That's is exactly it. His career has developed at a properly ran club. Always good to see former players to on and be decent elsewhere.
 
Kudus either side of the 10 positions.

Milos Kerkez left-wing back.

Delap with either Hojlund / Zirkzee out on loan.

Branthwaite

Sell: Bruno, Shaw, Martinez.