Could we please start investing in PL-proven talents again?

Which are these PL-proven talents? Players in this league move between clubs for premium fees. There's a lot more value for money in foreign leagues.

Some examples of transfers in the last window:
  • Solanke £65M
  • Onana £60M
  • Pedro Neto £60M
  • Kilman £48M
  • Mattsen £45M
  • Rutter £45M
  • Elliot Anderson £41M
  • Archie Gray £41M
Does anyone think those players are actually worth the fees? Can you imagine Madrid or Bayern paying those fees for those players?

The "proven in the Premier League" argument goes out the window when you have to pay premium fees for non-premium players. There's a reason why top clubs very rarely buy from the Premier League: the prices don't match the quality, it's that simple.

See where the current top players of the league come from.

La liga
Rodri, Odeegard, Isaak

Bundesliga
Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Son, Konate

Serie A
Salah, Alisson, Romero

Primeira Liga
Ruben Dias, Luis Diaz,

League 1
Saliba, Gabriel, Bernardo Silva, Guimaraes

The only recent players I can think right now moving inside the premier league and exploding are Virgil, Mane and Robertson. All the other stars are either made in the top clubs academies or bought from other leagues.

Clubs generate so much money because of the TV rights that the prices have inflated, and it's not worth it. It's better to scout leagues like Ligue 1, La Liga, Bundesliga, or Serie A. Most importantly, when we're so tight with money and need to replace so many players. Of course there are sometimes opportunities like MacAllister moving for relatively cheap fees and we should be looking for those but trying to replace 7-8 players is going to take at least £400-500M, which we simply don’t have. We have to maximize our resources.
 
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led_scholes said:
If a players suits the profile the league should not matter. The issue with Zirkzee is that he is slow for example. That should have been visible during our scouting analysis. And for 3 years we just recruiting from ETH bucket list.

Before we tried the English core with the likes of Maguire, AWB, and one can include Sancho here (even Ighalo) but we recruited the wrong players.
So our problem is more due to our poor scouting rather the league the players come from.
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Can tell zirkzee was an INEOS signing with the new style of play they want to introduce. As ETH signed Hojlund which is a completely different player to zirkzee. The scouting is a shambles. You could pick up cheaper players from Europe that do really well so it’s a low risk high reward situation and you could potentially get a profit from selling. Where as the more expensive players are higher risk and harder to sell on.
 
Last one for today, because it's Christmas Eve and I'm feeling melancholic...

Harking back to having a ST and going to games back in the mid-90s, the one PL player I wanted us to sign, more than any other, ever, was Alan Shearer. I both loathed and loved him. Loathed because he played against us and I was jealous that the stand-out striker of the still early PL was at Blackburn (their winning the title was just a bit mad), loved because he was so, so, good. He'd have been an incredible player for Fergie.

I still vividly remember finding out he'd left East Lancashire for a record fee, all at a time when we were widely rumoured to be close to a deal...and then getting told it was Newcastle, not Utd who'd signed-him.

Not quite a ghost of Christmas past (they signed him in July) but definitely a PL signing that still haunts me, even now.
 
I really don’t agree, we’ve literally seen it not work for ourselves. Doesn’t matter if they play PL or another league, what matters is their quality and attitude.

I look at the real key signings for recent PL winners, how many were signed from the PL? Pool have a few but the bulk like Salah, KDB, Rodri, Odegaard, Saliba etc. aren’t coming direct from the PL even if they had stints in the past.
 
Hammondo said:
Well we won't be as big as we were, I think that's without a doubt. We cannot keep up with certain other clubs, we need to be more efficient in other areas.
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I’m not sure how big that is, but you dont pay the type of money Ineos have done for Man Utd unless you believe Man Utd can be one of the top clubs in the world again.
 
PL players are a no go as long as you need 4 or 5 signings per window. They are only viable if they are coming in situation whereby he your sole signing or the major signing accompanied by a couple of £10m punts. And tbf we did want Olise and if he had chosen us we probably would have signed him.
 
andersj said:
I’m not sure how big that is, but you dont pay the type of money Ineos have done for Man Utd unless you believe Man Utd can be one of the top clubs in the world again.
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No they pay it because they can make money, no other reason.
 
We have just been really bad at recruitment wherever the players have come from. I don’t think trying to recruit from the Premier League or trying to recruit a British core or any other flawed and narrow mounded attitude is the way forward.

The other issue with Premier League transfers is the fees are extortionate and in the PSR era expensive flops hold you back for years. We also need a lot of players and don’t have huge funds so
we really need to spread our money around.

The likes of Murillo and Cunha we need to pick up before they go to a Premier League team. We were heavily linked to Cunha when he was at Athletico and Branthwaite when he was on loan for what would have been modest fees in comparison to now. We maybe need to bite the bullet earlier and the some time to develop players given our current predicament.
 
andersj said:
Well, they cant if you are right. You can pay a premium fee (like Ineos did) for a potential market leader. The Man Utd you describe will not be that.
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In terms of making money united would be up there, so I am unsure what you mean.
 
I know Murillo is the current big thing but it’s yet another centre half that cannot head the ball. Please can we get a big fecker who can head
 
I’m pretty confident that Ferguson spent - minimum of 80 percent of Man Utds money on PL-proven player. Obviously a bit less if you narrow it to players between 23 and 26 from smaller clubs. But still significant (60 perceny maybe?).

During Klopps five first years at Liverpool they invested €530 mill. €261 mill was PL players between 23 and 26 years of age.

Since Arteta came in at Arsenal they have invested €780 mill. €398 mill have been PL players between 23 and 26 (meaning I did not include Trossard and Jorginho). Both clubs where in a worse state than Man Utd is now. Both found room to invest more than half their funds in the PL.

My points is not, and have never been, that we should buy only from the PL. Just that a bigger share should be in the PL and at a «correct age with a sensible salary». Also meaning we should avvoid older PL-players on high salary like Matic and Sanchez.
 
It's going to be difficult to entice players from mid-table clubs to a struggling mid-table club.

Better to take a look at lesser fancied leagues - Norway and Sweden spring to mind, historically United have had a lot of success there.
 
andersj said:
I’m pretty confident that Ferguson spent - minimum of 80 percent of Man Utds money on PL-proven player. Obviously a bit less if you narrow it to players between 23 and 26 from smaller clubs. But still significant (60 perceny maybe?).

During Klopps five first years at Liverpool they invested €530 mill. €261 mill was PL players between 23 and 26 years of age.

Since Arteta came in at Arsenal they have invested €780 mill. €398 mill have been PL players between 23 and 26 (meaning I did not include Trossard and Jorginho). Both clubs where in a worse state than Man Utd is now. Both found room to invest more than half their funds in the PL.

My points is not, and have never been, that we should buy only from the PL. Just that a bigger share should be in the PL and at a «correct age with a sensible salary». Also meaning we should avvoid older PL-players on high salary like Matic and Sanchez.
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https://www.transfermarkt.com/sir-alex-ferguson/spielertransfers/trainer/4
 
andersj said:
At Liverpool, Robertson, van Dijk, Henderson, Winjaldum and Mane had plenty of PL-experience. Salah had experience but not PL-proven. Matip, Fabinho, Alisson and Firmino where probably the ones who was not. Trent homegrown.

Their biggest failures (and only failures) from the PL was injury prone. Like Ox. From abroad, it was more mixed. Like Thiago and Keita (who Graham pushed hard for).
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In that period there were also Adam, Benteke, Lovren, Lallana, Clyne, Downing, Enrique, Mignolet, Ings, Balotelli and a bit of others depending on how pedantic you want to get.
 
hellhunter said:
The fact the closest to today player in this list is RvP more than 10 years ago speaks volumes tbh
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Hammondo said:
So you need to go a long way back then.
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Well that's the problem when you've barely made any good signings for over a decade. Be it Prem League, Europe or wherever.

But a striker scores 20 in the Premier League. Another scored 20 in Eredivisie. For anyone to say you don't at least factor in where the goals are scored is talking nonsense.
 
GlazersHater said:
Which are these PL-proven talents? Players in this league move between clubs for premium fees. There's a lot more value for money in foreign leagues.

Some examples of transfers in the last window:
  • Solanke £65M
  • Onana £60M
  • Pedro Neto £60M
  • Kilman £48M
  • Mattsen £45M
  • Rutter £45M
  • Elliot Anderson £41M
  • Archie Gray £41M
Does anyone think those players are actually worth the fees? Can you imagine Madrid or Bayern paying those fees for those players?

The "proven in the Premier League" argument goes out the window when you have to pay premium fees for non-premium players. There's a reason why top clubs very rarely buy from the Premier League: the prices don't match the quality, it's that simple.

See where the current top players of the league come from.

La liga
Rodri, Odeegard, Isaak

Bundesliga
Haaland, De Bruyne, Gundogan, Son, Konate

Serie A
Salah, Alisson, Romero

Primeira Liga
Ruben Dias, Luis Diaz,

League 1
Saliba, Gabriel, Bernardo Silva, Guimaraes

The only recent players I can think right now moving inside the premier league and exploding are Virgil, Mane and Robertson. All the other stars are either made in the top clubs academies or bought from other leagues.

Clubs generate so much money because of the TV rights that the prices have inflated, and it's not worth it. It's better to scout leagues like Ligue 1, La Liga, Bundesliga, or Serie A. Most importantly, when we're so tight with money and need to replace so many players. Of course there are sometimes opportunities like MacAllister moving for relatively cheap fees and we should be looking for those but trying to replace 7-8 players is going to take at least £400-500M, which we simply don’t have. We have to maximize our resources.
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Look at what we've just paid for Casemiro, Yoro and Antony.

Wherever we shop, it isn't cheap.

Maybe the Scandinavian countries. You can get a decent deal there.

The continent being cheaper idea went out the window a while ago.
 
I think we're always going to sign players from within the league that we're playing in. But the difference between ourselves and the likes of Liverpool and Arsenal etc is that they've targeted players for a high intensity play style where pace and power in certain positions has been a priority and they also didn't compromise on progressive passing.

So when you assemble a team that can progress the ball from the back effectively with consistency whilst also having CBs and midfielders who can eat up ground in defensive transition, then we will see a consistency forming within the team that will enable us more control both in and out of possession. And that's what Arsenal and Liverpool have been doing for several years. And it wasn't smooth sailing at the start and it took both teams a number of years before they became more consistent.

But it was very clear to see that their game model which imo opinion was to progress play from the back, press from the front and dominate the opponent out of possession in a higher defensive line was followed and they didn't veer away from that game model even when things were going wrong.

Man Utd need a couple of midfielders imo. Definitely one marquee signing in deeper midfield who not only has the progressive qualities in possession but also has the pace and power out of possession to help thwart the oppositions fast transitions when the game becomes stretched and the spaces open up. Our midfield is lightweight in the sense that we don't have players who can eat up ground quickly and win duels cheaply.

The game against Bournemouth when Amorim takes off Ugarte was the right decision imo because in that situation you must take risks. Ugarte who is a ratter and does his best work out of possession had to be sacrificed because he doesn't have the capabilities to progress the ball to the standard we require. So it's imperative imo that we sign at least one midfielder who adds the duel winning capability out of possession whilst also having the ability to progress the ball via a pass with consistency.

So imo it's about signing the players for the game model and particular focus needs to go into signing players who are top duelllers out of possession whilst also being very capable on the ball as far as progressing it forward. I think the midfield is the key area to improve and whether they target players from within the league or abroad, they must adhere to the game model if we're to take a leaf out of Arsenal or Liverpool's methods.
 
Marwood said:
Why are Brighton the barometer though? We're looking to win things.
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The recruiting they are doing is very successful.
Because the OP misses out how Salah, liverpools most important player consistently during their success isn’t from the PL, same with Firminho.

If Brighton didn’t have caicedo plucked and had the budget to purchase a few PL proven talent they could be on top, but it’s not the majority.
Denis79 said:
No idea if I'm honest but I do know the squad we have after have spent over £600M. I honestly think our attack is lower-half of the table quality.
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Yeah but that’s cause of poor recruitment over all, not the fact that we needed PL proven talent. The best teams do so with a mixture of both
 
eire-red said:
Can someone let our recruitment know this is the list of what not to do, and not the other way around?
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The opposite :lol: (Or not)

- Sign a long-term problem
- Sign "no experience"
- Sign "he doesn’t know the league"
- Sign suitable for style
- Sign "we can’t fix him".
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I really don’t agree, we’ve literally seen it not work for ourselves. Doesn’t matter if they play PL or another league, what matters is their quality and attitude.

I look at the real key signings for recent PL winners, how many were signed from the PL? Pool have a few but the bulk like Salah, KDB, Rodri, Odegaard, Saliba etc. aren’t coming direct from the PL even if they had stints in the past.
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It's been far from perfect but if we're to pick the better signings since Fergie the majority would be from the Prem.

Bruno is the best but after him, I'd say it's Prem proven players who've given us most.

People mock Maguire and AWB but they immediately improved us. Compare to Rojo, Darmian, Lindelof, Bailly etc.
 
Marwood said:
It's been far from perfect but if we're to pick the better signings since Fergie the majority would be from the Prem.

Bruno is the best but after him, I'd say it's Prem proven players who've given us most.

People mock Maguire and AWB but they immediately improved us. Compare to Rojo, Darmian, Lindelof, Bailly etc.
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But I feel like this is much more just ‘we need to recruit better’ than specific to PL proven?
 
TheGame said:
Not sure about Branthwaite impressing this season, thought he's been poor in my opinion and looked very shaky. Was much better last season.
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Agreed, we dodged a bullet with him. Everton wanted ridiculous money. Much happier with Yoro as a longer term prospect.

In terms of OPs main point, I agree, but it needs to be at the right price point.
 
Maz is the blue print and the way forward for me. Technical, fit, good attitude, good age bracket and cheap. We just need to find another 10 or so players in that mould relevant to their position.

Unless we can find a couple of hundred million in revenue from behind the sofa but there’s no sign of that happening.
 
Bwuk said:
We’d be a far better side with Toney upfront than Rasmus or Zirkzee.
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I don’t know if we would. Many of his strikes were penalties, which he wouldn’t get at United. So unless you mean his work outside of getting goals

To prove my point he’s got 3 goals in 10 matches in the Saudi league. And they’re paying him a fortune
 
Marwood said:
It's been far from perfect but if we're to pick the better signings since Fergie the majority would be from the Prem.

Bruno is the best but after him, I'd say it's Prem proven players who've given us most.

People mock Maguire and AWB but they immediately improved us. Compare to Rojo, Darmian, Lindelof, Bailly etc.
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This is pretty debatable in my opinion. If you call Maguire and AWB a success (should probably include Matic as well), you'd have to do the same with Herrera, Blind, Zlatan and many others
 
Mbuemo. Fast, can drible, can cross, penalty taker, can play winger and number 10. On top of that, just turned 25. Contract expires 2026.
 
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