Though there is still a flaw in that plan in that Cunha would cost 50m, we got quoted 75m for Branthwaite and so on
Could we please start investing in PL-proven talents again?
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Depends how far you want to go back but there's loads.
RvP, Rio, Pallister, Bruce, Yorke, Cole etc etc.
Maguire was a talent in PL before coming here, so was Mount, so was Eriksen, Fellieni, Schniderlin, Shaw, AwB, Lukaku, Matic, Mata, etc.. some where young when we signed them like Shaw, AWB and Mount, some were entering their prime, some were bit older, we do sign plenty of players with solid PL experience, and I am not saying we should not sigh a player from PL clubs, I think the club should find the best players regardless where they are now, some of the current top players in the PL were/are great success and didn't come from a PL side, Salah, KdB, Rodri, Odegaard, and others, again it's not about where they play prior to joining us, but how good they are, and now they fit the system and financial value.
This is not the case most of the time, Mount cost us 60, Solanke & Richarlison cost Spurs 60m each, Caciedo & Rice who you mentioned cost 100m, even Lavia cost 60m more, Grealish is a 100m, Cucurella is 60m, PL players especially with decent experience and below 25 yo will cost a pretty penny, Everton wanted 75m minimum fot Braitwaithe.
This is not the case most of the time, Mount cost us 60, Solanke & Richarlison cost Spurs 60m each, Caciedo & Rice who you mentioned cost 100m, even Lavia cost 60m more, Grealish is a 100m, Cucurella is 60m, PL players especially with decent experience and below 25 yo will cost a pretty penny, Everton wanted 75m minimum fot Braitwaithe.
The fact the closest to today player in this list is RvP more than 10 years ago speaks volumes tbh
Keane, Carrick, VdS, Berba, Tevez.
You can do that but the way to do it now is to make the player run down their contract with the club they’re at so that said club is in a dilemma of either sell them, making a profit albeit not as much as they should be worth or keep them but then letting them go for free.
Plus United in particular have had a very dinosaur approach to player recruitment since Ferguson left. Mainly due to the Glazer reactive approach of throwing money at problems and hope they go away. It seems like scouts were ignored and overruled by either Woodward’s Galactico movement where he seemingly had one eye on the commercial side of things when bringing players in, or whoever the manager was at the time’s personal preference was.
They’re catching up to everyone else slowly. I’d say we’re in the teething phase of trying to find out what we’re going to do. Ashworth getting axed after 5 months was ruthless but it’s better to correct an error sooner rather than later. Some of the youth transfers we’ve made like Chido, Kone and more recently Leon shows that we’re getting back to what we should be doing. We’re buying high potential for low price but if they’re not good enough to where we want to be, then we should try to sell them to make as much profit as possible.
Plus United in particular have had a very dinosaur approach to player recruitment since Ferguson left. Mainly due to the Glazer reactive approach of throwing money at problems and hope they go away. It seems like scouts were ignored and overruled by either Woodward’s Galactico movement where he seemingly had one eye on the commercial side of things when bringing players in, or whoever the manager was at the time’s personal preference was.
They’re catching up to everyone else slowly. I’d say we’re in the teething phase of trying to find out what we’re going to do. Ashworth getting axed after 5 months was ruthless but it’s better to correct an error sooner rather than later. Some of the youth transfers we’ve made like Chido, Kone and more recently Leon shows that we’re getting back to what we should be doing. We’re buying high potential for low price but if they’re not good enough to where we want to be, then we should try to sell them to make as much profit as possible.
Yeah that's fair, Shaw wasn't a great example. Could also look at Matic, Maguire, AWB. Not saying every PL transfer we did recently was terrible, but don't see them outperforming our signings from outside the PL by any means
Wolves bought him for 50m, so would expect much more if they stay up.
So basically let other clubs take the risk of signing players from abroad for a cheaper price.
Solanke was £65 million. So pretty much a guarantee they’ll want £65 million at the very least.
This is why we can't make these loose statements about how we "should" look at prem signings, outside prem signings down the leagues, european top league signings, european smaller league signings, promising youngsters.
We've signed examples from all of the above to almost hilarious minimal success - like you could barely get it worse than getting 1 right every 20-25 signings.
If ever there's a line that makes you worry about us ever returning to the top.
Unless we stumble across a crop of youngsters who are quality but also love the club, or we start getting almost impossible rations of say 9/10 signings right, it's really hard to see a path back to competing for titles.
Pure chance should've let us sign a banger, but nope
Bruno is that one in 25, and on matchday threads you still have loads moaning about him.
I dare say a lot of them still think Mount is the answer because he "presses well".
I mean what a time to be alive, talking about "pressing" being such an important quality in attacking players
Yep. It’s just recruiting the right profiles, it doesn’t matter whether they’ve been in the PL for 6 seasons or a Ligue 1 Uber Eater.
Yeah sorry I should have had a + sign after that
So you need to go a long way back then.
Too harsh on Mata. Played in a lot of positions and contributed quite a bit, 0.43 G/As per 90 mins in the PL over that many years in some atrocious, low scoring teams. For long periods, we were set up as counterattacking teams when he'd thrive more in possession teams (a la Silva at City).
Fair point that he probably was the wrong transfer for the kinds of managers we ended up hiring, but I wouldn't say he was an obvious failed transfer.
Fair point that he probably was the wrong transfer for the kinds of managers we ended up hiring, but I wouldn't say he was an obvious failed transfer.
Blame Pep for infecting us with this uninspiring robotic ‘style’ killing off the creative number 10s and wingers.
Just a thought, Jesse Lingard, if only he’d have been born a few years later
So, pick a player that suits the style and don’t factor much else into it
Truth be told, Mata and Fellaini were among our better PL signings since SAF retired
He ran around a lot, but not sure he was actually a good presser.
Infamous for going a year at United as a regular without a goal or an assist.
That takes real doing that does.
Heh compared to some nameless current players, he put a shift in
Premier league players are slightly more expensive. But we had our pants pulled down by foreign clubs for Antony, Hojlund and Sancho.
We should have also signed Mac Allister rather than Mount as he would have been a better fit for our midfield. So it’s not just about signing premier league players, we need to sign players with the right profile that suits us. Mata didn’t suit us too.
I do remember when Van Gaal wanted Mane and most the forum was underwhelmed at the time.
We should have also signed Mac Allister rather than Mount as he would have been a better fit for our midfield. So it’s not just about signing premier league players, we need to sign players with the right profile that suits us. Mata didn’t suit us too.
I do remember when Van Gaal wanted Mane and most the forum was underwhelmed at the time.
Ye he killed off iniesta and kdb.
One of the stand-out features of SAF's sides - full confession: this was my era as a match-going fan and, yes, I was spoiled - was the regular recruitment of some of the very best PL talent. As others have already said, some of our very best players came from other PL clubs.
We could and should be doing better in the domestic market and we definitely need to get away from the madness of splurging inflated fees and crazy salaries on aged, big names, but we also need to recognise this is not the mid-90s, when, to a large extent, we had a free run on star talents at Villa, Spurs and others. Everyone recognises we have rivals with at least as much buying power - less well recognised is the fact that clubs with any sort of PL tenure simply don't have to sell as they did 15-20 years ago because they're so much richer. And, when they do sell, well, we know the rest on the going rates.
Getting value, will mean acting quickly and doing deals before a player's reputation sky-rockets, and the fee balloons, because other clubs are in the chase.
We could and should be doing better in the domestic market and we definitely need to get away from the madness of splurging inflated fees and crazy salaries on aged, big names, but we also need to recognise this is not the mid-90s, when, to a large extent, we had a free run on star talents at Villa, Spurs and others. Everyone recognises we have rivals with at least as much buying power - less well recognised is the fact that clubs with any sort of PL tenure simply don't have to sell as they did 15-20 years ago because they're so much richer. And, when they do sell, well, we know the rest on the going rates.
Getting value, will mean acting quickly and doing deals before a player's reputation sky-rockets, and the fee balloons, because other clubs are in the chase.
Also all pl teams are richer, and don't need to sell.
Post Fergie, none of our signings have been that good though have they?
If we signed a mid table player now, they'd struggle like the supposed world class superstars have.
When we signed Premier League proven players pre 2013, they usually went into a fully functioning side and they were probably made to look a little bit better than they actually were.
If we signed a mid table player now, they'd struggle like the supposed world class superstars have.
I understand both sides of this argument.
In reality you need a bit of both. I think the main issue we have is that for too long we've had the wrong type of character in the dressing room. There are absolutely loads of talented football players out there but we need the ones that actually care.
The latest link to Osimhen fills me with despair. He has already turned down a move to Chelsea because he wants a massive financial offer.
The opening post mentioned Liverpool. The key thing about the players they signed is that they all have the right personality,character and drive. Alisson, Salah, Van Dijk, Robertson, Milner and Henderson to name just a few. When you look at their squad it's full of players that have the right attitude and always give 100% commitment.
Mourinho called it a long long time ago now. There are too many bad apples in this club. It does feel like we are finally starting to remove them all, but we need to ensure that we replace them with players that actually want to prove themselves.
In reality you need a bit of both. I think the main issue we have is that for too long we've had the wrong type of character in the dressing room. There are absolutely loads of talented football players out there but we need the ones that actually care.
The latest link to Osimhen fills me with despair. He has already turned down a move to Chelsea because he wants a massive financial offer.
The opening post mentioned Liverpool. The key thing about the players they signed is that they all have the right personality,character and drive. Alisson, Salah, Van Dijk, Robertson, Milner and Henderson to name just a few. When you look at their squad it's full of players that have the right attitude and always give 100% commitment.
Mourinho called it a long long time ago now. There are too many bad apples in this club. It does feel like we are finally starting to remove them all, but we need to ensure that we replace them with players that actually want to prove themselves.
Fair point. And I agree. Buying PL-proven often cost a bit more. And I think that is a premium price that, in the long run, would save money. People quote that Cunha would be expensive. Probably true. But Man Utd can afford to pay up. That is an edge we should make use off.
Zirkzee cost £40 mill. Hojlund £70 mill. Cunha would probably cost somewhere inbetween, Solanke cost £60 mill.
Lisandro Martinez cost £55 mill. Varane on a three year contract cost £40 mill and a huge salary. I would gladly pay a bit more for a young, PL proven defender at a reasonable wage. I like Yoro, but I’m not sure that was smart considering our need for someone ti improve us now.
Furthermore, we paid £80 mill for Antony and Sancho. Each. That type of money should be earmarked for PL-proven players.
I’m not saying we should not buy exciting young players from abroad. But we should not have to throw big money at those players. Look what Brighton pay. Or Sporting.
Approx 20 percent of our spending post Ferguson have been on PL-players. The rest on players abroad. I would prefer if it was the other way around. Or at least 70/30.
Yep, relatively - I think the key theme is that a whole bunch of smaller, typically mid-table, clubs, simply don't need to sell as they once did, as sales are just less important to them. Which is how and why Brighton, for e.g. are able to extract so many huge fees (totally accepting Brighton have a specific model under Tony Bloom).
It's why when we sold players like welbeck I think it was a bad idea.
Highly questionable at the moment
For now. But in the long rund we can due to high revenue. We will likely offload Maguire, Casemiro, Antony, Sancho (permanently) and Rashford within a year or two. Then we will be able to spend like we have the past couple of years.
Very unlikely, and the new people running things don't wanna spend big.
Definitely something we should have been doing but the financial edge we had has been blown now so we'll struggle.
An above average caf poster could have recruited better than we have done.
An above average caf poster could have recruited better than we have done.
Then Man Utd will never compete again, we will become less attractive commercially in the long run, and they will lose alot of money.
Well we won't be as big as we were, I think that's without a doubt. We cannot keep up with certain other clubs, we need to be more efficient in other areas.
And a few thoughts on post-SAF signings from PL clubs: Maguire was over-hyped and over-priced, largely because of his England profile - he was never going to be that good because of fundamental flaws in pace / mobility (of course Woodward wanted a signing we could style as the next VVD); AWB was another over-hyped, actually pretty limited player (and, again, we hugely overpaid); both Matic (one vg season) and Mata (slightly under-rated) involved big fees for players who'd peaked; and Mount was a stupid signing, a well-run club just wouldn't make (emergent fitness problems and a ridiculous fee for some who was in the last year of a contract).
Actually that last point is it all: measured against the best standards, our recruitment has been appalling for years, because too much of our executive has been sub-standard. This was the single most important thing for INEOS to deal with, so let's hope they've got it right. Or at least made it much better.
Actually that last point is it all: measured against the best standards, our recruitment has been appalling for years, because too much of our executive has been sub-standard. This was the single most important thing for INEOS to deal with, so let's hope they've got it right. Or at least made it much better.
If a players suits the profile the league should not matter. The issue with Zirkzee is that he is slow for example. That should have been visible during our scouting analysis. And for 3 years we just recruiting from ETH bucket list.
Before we tried the English core with the likes of Maguire, AWB, and one can include Sancho here (even Ighalo) but we recruited the wrong players.
So our problem is more due to our poor scouting rather the league the players come from.
Before we tried the English core with the likes of Maguire, AWB, and one can include Sancho here (even Ighalo) but we recruited the wrong players.
So our problem is more due to our poor scouting rather the league the players come from.