Result:
Interval 7-5 paulscholes18
Interval 7-5 paulscholes18
Coronavirus Cricket Auction Draft (Test)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Match 7: Fiskey vs Moby
Please vote for one of the teams that you believe would win on a slow dustbowl minefield.
Discussions encouraged. Write ups to follow.
Team @Fiskey
Discussions encouraged. Write ups to follow.
Team @Fiskey
- Marcus Trescothick
- Chris Gayle
- George Headley
- Graeme Pollock
- Dennis Compton
- Andrew Flower (wk)
- Chris Cairns
- Ritchie Benaud (c)
- Ravi Jadeja
- Patrick Cummings
- Colin Croft
- Sanath Jayasuriya
- Alec Stewart (wk)
- Neil Harvey
- Greg Chappell
- Vijay Hazare
- Colin Cowdrey
- Imran Khan (c)
- Harold Larwood
- Clarrie Grimmett
- Hugh Tayfield
- Glenn McGrath
Team @Fiskey
Opening Pair
On a dustbowl, the best time to bat is often against the new ball. Virender Sehwag was such an asset to India as he could get the team off to a flying start while the batting was easiest. The two in my team are of this ilk, and will take on the bowling from the beginning.
Middle Order
I think the middle order is nearly as strong as it could possibly have been. George Headley (avg. 60.83) and Graeme Pollock (60.97) are in my opinion the 2nd and 3rd best middle order batsman in history, after the Don. I also think Andy Flower (51.54) is the best wicket keeper batsman in history, and would be more widely regarded as such had he not played for Zimbabwe. He is also the perfect player for this type of pitch. Anyone who remembers Flowers performances in 2000 against India, after which he was rated the number 1 batsman in the world ahead of the likes of Lara, Tendulkar and Waugh, can be in no doubt as to his talent.
Lower Order
I have two exciting hitters at 7 and 9, and Benaud in the middle to keep them company. I hope to be able to press on the platform laid by the middle order.
Bowling
Ravi Jadeja (bowling avg. 24.62) is my key man here, and would be one of my all-time selections on a dustbowl. In India, he averages 21.06, is relentlessly accurate and keeps control. He’s also a fit guy with an economical delivery stride, so can bowl all day should I need him to.
I’m also very excited about my new ball attack. Cummiungs and Croft are two 90+ mph bowlers, but Croft with his slightly unorthodox action provides the fear factor while Cummings is on the path to becoming an all time great. Cummings and Jadeja are also two of the best bowler/fielders I’ve seen, which adds to the intensity of the group.
My captain is the guy we all grew up listening to as a commentator, Ritchie Benaud. As a leg spinner myself Ritchie was always a hero of mine, Wonderful bowler, but also one of Australia’s best ever captains. In a team full of leaders, his tactical acumen and coolness of mind will take us to victory.
---
Team @Moby
Team Tactics
I have gone with 6+4+1 line up: 6 specialist batsmen, 4 specialist bowlers and 1 GOAT All Rounder.
Overall, with this being a dustbowl, I have gone with two of the greatest spinners of all time in Clarrie Grimmett and Hugh Tayfield. Grimmett is in the conversation for the greatest spinner of all time, while Tayfield's 9-53 was voted by Wisden as the greatest bowling performance of all time. The two in tandem will be absolutely devastating on this surface and bordering on unplayable once the cracks widen up.
That's not to say that the spinners are the only ones who can do the damage. The bowling is spearheaded by two GOAT fast bowlers forming possibly the greatest opening bowling partnership in all of test cricket. Imran and McGrath will open the bowling, with Imran being well versed with the slow turners of the sub-continent, and McGrath being McGrath. The third pacer being Harold Larwood, the top marksman of the infamous bodyline series who made the job of scoring insanely impossible even for the legendary Aussie team under Bradman. Greg Chappell will chip in with some overs as the 6th bowler.
Overall, the bowling unit is going to absolutely enjoy this surface and getting 20 wickets will not be an issue whatsoever.
Coming to the batsmen, the batting is opened by none other than the master of piling on runs on dry lifeless pitches of the subcontinent in Jayasuriya. He is chosen over Trumper for his experience on dustbowls and supreme record on such surfaces. Accompanying him would be the dogged Steward who would hold his end and complement Sanath well.
The middle order then brings on two of the greatest Australians and absolute giants of the game in Neil Harvey and Greg Chappell. Both of them bring incredible concentration and composure to the crease, in addition to the stylish display of scoring runs. Finishing the middle order is one of India's greatest exports in Vijay Hazare, the English legend Colin Cowdrey and finally Imran himself, who was far more talented with the bat than being a no. 7.
I think there is quite good balance in this team, with all departments consisting of at least one GOAT level player (Imran and McGrath in pace, Grimmett in spin and Chappell and Harvey with the bat), while surrounded with solid functional players who can play around them. As well as the team being well suited to the surface.
One of Australia's all-time favourite cricketing sons, Neil Harvey was a gifted left-hand batsman, brilliantly athletic fielder, and occasional offspin bowler. On account of the richness of his talents, he served Victoria, New South Wales and Australia with great distinction during a first-class career which spanned the 16-year period between 1946-47 and 1962-63. Harvey was an electrifying batsman who thrilled spectators with the splendour of his strokeplay.
He possessed a masterful technique as well as a full range of shots and he displayed to cricket followers a superbly steadfast temperament right from the moment, as a teenager, that he played his opening first-class innings. Throughout a career which ultimately netted him in excess of 20,000 first-class runs, bowlers rarely found a way of disrupting his concentration or curbing his attacking instincts. He also possessed disarming power for a man of relatively short height. There will be many performances for which he will be remembered but foremost among them were his 153 against India in his second Test (an innings which made him the youngest-ever Australian to score a Test century); his 112 in the celebrated Leeds Test of 1948; his 151 in Durban in 1949-50; and his highest Test score of 205 against South Africa in Melbourne in 1952-53. Most discussions of Neil Harvey's career are also considered to be incomplete without mention of his achievement in amassing six centuries in his first 13 Test innings alone.
Upright and unbending, with a touch of the tin soldier about his bearing, Greg Chappell was the outstanding Australian batsman of his generation. Though he had an appetite for big scores, it was his calm brow and courtly manner that bowlers found just as disheartening. He made a century in his first and final Tests, and 22 more in between - although perhaps the outstanding batting of his career left no trace on the record-books, his 621 runs at 69 in five unauthorised World Series Cricket "SuperTests" in the Caribbean in 1979, off a West Indian attack of unprecedented hostility. Less empathic as a captain than his elder brother Ian, he nonetheless won 21 of his 48 Tests and lost only 13. He lost the Ashes in 1977, but reclaimed them in 1982-83. His feat of scoring centuries in each innings of his captaincy debut is unequalled.
The man who led India to its first Test win, Vijay Hazare, represented India in 30 Tests. Along with his arch-rival and teammate, Vijay Merchant, Hazare can be credited for making the Bombay school of batsmanship an integral part of Indian cricket during the early years.
His best performance in cricket came during India's first tour of Australia in 1947/48. Playing against Don Bradman's 'Invincible' Australian side, he scored centuries in both the innings at Adelaide. Till 2014, he was the only Indian batsman to hit two centuries in the consecutive innings of a Test match in Australia. In December 2014, that record was equalled by Virat Kohli, who achieved scores of 115 and 141 at the same ground as Hazare.
Hazare averaged 47.65 over the course of 30 Tests, but more than his average, he will be remembered for his ability to bail the team out of trouble time and again. Out of the 30 Tests he played, he led India on 14 occasions. In his first game as captain, Fred Trueman had India on the mat at 0 for 4 in the second innings. Hazare, who had scored 89 in the first innings, once again came to India's rescue by scoring 56.
In an era of outstanding English batsmen, he was the most durable, with a Test career spanning more than two decades. On his journey from teenage phenomenon to sporting statesmen, he was at the heart of the game for half a century: Cowdrey was the first man to play 100 Tests, captained England 27 times and scored almost 43,000 first-class runs - 7,624 of them in Tests. In later years, he played a major role behind the scenes in marrying the traditions of international cricket with modern demands. Yet it was still possible, and only mildly unkind, for one of his contemporaries, Fred Trueman, to describe Cowdrey on his death as "a terrific talent who never fulfilled his potential". Amid the triumphs there was often a vague sense of unease: of unexpected failures, opportunities not taken. Despite everything, Cowdrey never achieved the greatest accolade English cricket can offer: he toured Australia six times, which equalled a world record held by Johnny Briggs, but never once was he selected as captain; every time a more forceful figure shoved him out of the way when it mattered.
Around 5ft 8ins, but strongly-built with wide shoulders and long arms, he had a smooth, rhythmic approach and a high arm action. His speed was truly exceptional, and because of his lack of height, his bouncer tended to skid, veering into the ribs rather than wastefully over the head. The schoolboy Ray Lindwall drew upon this action after watching through the pickets at the SCG in 1932-33. In more recent times, the Pakistan express bowler Waqar Younis has had much of Larwood's movement about his run-up and delivery. Larwood's stock ball snapped in from the off, and in days when leg-before dismissals could be granted only from balls that pitched between wicket and wicket, he was denied many a dismissal that would have been given to succeeding generations of bowlers.
For all his briskness, the ingenuity in each of his deliveries seldom gave the greatest of batsmen any moment of peace. Grimmett was the most confirmed miser. He hated runs scored off him and only once in his career did he commit the cardinal sin of bowling a no-ball. Indeed, tidiness rather than turn was his weapon of choice.
His variations were intriguing while his accuracy metronomic. He seldom beat the batsman with huge turn. He fooled them with subtle deceptive alterations while maintaining tantalising line and length. Hardly anyone witnessed him bowl a long hop. While he excelled at the orthodox leg-break and the wrong ’un, his greatest contribution to the abstract art of leg-spin was probably the development of the flipper. Squeezed out of the front of the hand with the thumb and first and second fingers, this productive delivery was perfected by Grimmett through years and years of practice.
Grimmett was so hooked to the flipper that once Don Bradman joked that he had forgotten his orthodox leg-break. That innings he bowled the Australian legend by pitching on the great man’s leg stump and taking the off bail.
Hugh Tayfield was one of the most successful bowlers ever produced by South Africa and one of the greatest off-spinners the game has seen. Between 1949-50 and 1960 he took 170 wickets in Tests at a cost of 25.91 in 37 matches. Tayfield took more wickets per Test match (4.59) then either Jim Laker or Lance Gibbs (4.19 and 3.91), and though he was not in Laker's class as a spinner of the ball, he was exceptionally accurate and could bowl all day without wavering. He preferred to bowl over the wicket, extremely close to the stumps, which gave him the perfect angle for the ball to drift away and break back. Though his variations were subtle, his field settings were often flamboyantly unorthodox, with a large, tempting gap around extra cover but two straightish silly mid-ons waiting for the mistimed shot. Tayfield was, with Trevor Goddard, at the centre of South Africa's containing cricket of the 1950s; he bowled 137 consecutive balls without conceding a run against England at Durban in 1956-57. But, with South Africa's superb fielding to back him up, he ran through teams as well: he took 37 wickets that series at 17.18, including nine for 113 in the second innings of the Fourth Test at Johannesburg, when he bowled unchanged on the last day and sent down 35 eight-ball overs; the longer he bowled the more inhibited England's batsmen became. Tayfield was chaired off the field.
Opening Pair
On a dustbowl, the best time to bat is often against the new ball. Virender Sehwag was such an asset to India as he could get the team off to a flying start while the batting was easiest. The two in my team are of this ilk, and will take on the bowling from the beginning.
Middle Order
I think the middle order is nearly as strong as it could possibly have been. George Headley (avg. 60.83) and Graeme Pollock (60.97) are in my opinion the 2nd and 3rd best middle order batsman in history, after the Don. I also think Andy Flower (51.54) is the best wicket keeper batsman in history, and would be more widely regarded as such had he not played for Zimbabwe. He is also the perfect player for this type of pitch. Anyone who remembers Flowers performances in 2000 against India, after which he was rated the number 1 batsman in the world ahead of the likes of Lara, Tendulkar and Waugh, can be in no doubt as to his talent.
Lower Order
I have two exciting hitters at 7 and 9, and Benaud in the middle to keep them company. I hope to be able to press on the platform laid by the middle order.
- Marcus Trescothick (43.79)
- Chris Gayle (42.18)
- George Headley (60.83)
- Graeme Pollock (60.97)
- Dennis Compton (50.06)
- Andrew Flower + (51.54)
- Chris Cairns (33.53)
- Ritchie Benaud © (24.45)
- Ravi Jadeja (35.26)
- Patrick Cummings (17.02)
- Colin Croft (10.53)
Bowling
Ravi Jadeja (bowling avg. 24.62) is my key man here, and would be one of my all-time selections on a dustbowl. In India, he averages 21.06, is relentlessly accurate and keeps control. He’s also a fit guy with an economical delivery stride, so can bowl all day should I need him to.
I’m also very excited about my new ball attack. Cummiungs and Croft are two 90+ mph bowlers, but Croft with his slightly unorthodox action provides the fear factor while Cummings is on the path to becoming an all time great. Cummings and Jadeja are also two of the best bowler/fielders I’ve seen, which adds to the intensity of the group.
My captain is the guy we all grew up listening to as a commentator, Ritchie Benaud. As a leg spinner myself Ritchie was always a hero of mine, Wonderful bowler, but also one of Australia’s best ever captains. In a team full of leaders, his tactical acumen and coolness of mind will take us to victory.
| Bowler | Bowling Average | Economy Rate |
| Patrick Cummings | 21.82 | 2.76 |
| Colin Croft | 23.30 | 2.83 |
| Ravi Jadeja | 24.62 | 2.43 |
| Ritchie Benaud | 27.03 | 2.10 |
| Chris Cairns | 29.40 | 3.28 |
---
Team @Moby
Team Tactics
I have gone with 6+4+1 line up: 6 specialist batsmen, 4 specialist bowlers and 1 GOAT All Rounder.
Overall, with this being a dustbowl, I have gone with two of the greatest spinners of all time in Clarrie Grimmett and Hugh Tayfield. Grimmett is in the conversation for the greatest spinner of all time, while Tayfield's 9-53 was voted by Wisden as the greatest bowling performance of all time. The two in tandem will be absolutely devastating on this surface and bordering on unplayable once the cracks widen up.
That's not to say that the spinners are the only ones who can do the damage. The bowling is spearheaded by two GOAT fast bowlers forming possibly the greatest opening bowling partnership in all of test cricket. Imran and McGrath will open the bowling, with Imran being well versed with the slow turners of the sub-continent, and McGrath being McGrath. The third pacer being Harold Larwood, the top marksman of the infamous bodyline series who made the job of scoring insanely impossible even for the legendary Aussie team under Bradman. Greg Chappell will chip in with some overs as the 6th bowler.
Overall, the bowling unit is going to absolutely enjoy this surface and getting 20 wickets will not be an issue whatsoever.
Coming to the batsmen, the batting is opened by none other than the master of piling on runs on dry lifeless pitches of the subcontinent in Jayasuriya. He is chosen over Trumper for his experience on dustbowls and supreme record on such surfaces. Accompanying him would be the dogged Steward who would hold his end and complement Sanath well.
The middle order then brings on two of the greatest Australians and absolute giants of the game in Neil Harvey and Greg Chappell. Both of them bring incredible concentration and composure to the crease, in addition to the stylish display of scoring runs. Finishing the middle order is one of India's greatest exports in Vijay Hazare, the English legend Colin Cowdrey and finally Imran himself, who was far more talented with the bat than being a no. 7.
I think there is quite good balance in this team, with all departments consisting of at least one GOAT level player (Imran and McGrath in pace, Grimmett in spin and Chappell and Harvey with the bat), while surrounded with solid functional players who can play around them. As well as the team being well suited to the surface.
Selected Player Profiles
Neil Harvey
6k+ runs @48 with 21 tons.
Neil Harvey
6k+ runs @48 with 21 tons.
One of Australia's all-time favourite cricketing sons, Neil Harvey was a gifted left-hand batsman, brilliantly athletic fielder, and occasional offspin bowler. On account of the richness of his talents, he served Victoria, New South Wales and Australia with great distinction during a first-class career which spanned the 16-year period between 1946-47 and 1962-63. Harvey was an electrifying batsman who thrilled spectators with the splendour of his strokeplay.
He possessed a masterful technique as well as a full range of shots and he displayed to cricket followers a superbly steadfast temperament right from the moment, as a teenager, that he played his opening first-class innings. Throughout a career which ultimately netted him in excess of 20,000 first-class runs, bowlers rarely found a way of disrupting his concentration or curbing his attacking instincts. He also possessed disarming power for a man of relatively short height. There will be many performances for which he will be remembered but foremost among them were his 153 against India in his second Test (an innings which made him the youngest-ever Australian to score a Test century); his 112 in the celebrated Leeds Test of 1948; his 151 in Durban in 1949-50; and his highest Test score of 205 against South Africa in Melbourne in 1952-53. Most discussions of Neil Harvey's career are also considered to be incomplete without mention of his achievement in amassing six centuries in his first 13 Test innings alone.
Greg Chappell
7k+ runs @~54 with 24 tons.
7k+ runs @~54 with 24 tons.
Upright and unbending, with a touch of the tin soldier about his bearing, Greg Chappell was the outstanding Australian batsman of his generation. Though he had an appetite for big scores, it was his calm brow and courtly manner that bowlers found just as disheartening. He made a century in his first and final Tests, and 22 more in between - although perhaps the outstanding batting of his career left no trace on the record-books, his 621 runs at 69 in five unauthorised World Series Cricket "SuperTests" in the Caribbean in 1979, off a West Indian attack of unprecedented hostility. Less empathic as a captain than his elder brother Ian, he nonetheless won 21 of his 48 Tests and lost only 13. He lost the Ashes in 1977, but reclaimed them in 1982-83. His feat of scoring centuries in each innings of his captaincy debut is unequalled.
Vijay Hazare
2k+ runs @47 with 7 tons in 30 matches.
2k+ runs @47 with 7 tons in 30 matches.
The man who led India to its first Test win, Vijay Hazare, represented India in 30 Tests. Along with his arch-rival and teammate, Vijay Merchant, Hazare can be credited for making the Bombay school of batsmanship an integral part of Indian cricket during the early years.
His best performance in cricket came during India's first tour of Australia in 1947/48. Playing against Don Bradman's 'Invincible' Australian side, he scored centuries in both the innings at Adelaide. Till 2014, he was the only Indian batsman to hit two centuries in the consecutive innings of a Test match in Australia. In December 2014, that record was equalled by Virat Kohli, who achieved scores of 115 and 141 at the same ground as Hazare.
Hazare averaged 47.65 over the course of 30 Tests, but more than his average, he will be remembered for his ability to bail the team out of trouble time and again. Out of the 30 Tests he played, he led India on 14 occasions. In his first game as captain, Fred Trueman had India on the mat at 0 for 4 in the second innings. Hazare, who had scored 89 in the first innings, once again came to India's rescue by scoring 56.
Colin Cowdrey
7.5k+ runs @44 with 22 tons.
7.5k+ runs @44 with 22 tons.
In an era of outstanding English batsmen, he was the most durable, with a Test career spanning more than two decades. On his journey from teenage phenomenon to sporting statesmen, he was at the heart of the game for half a century: Cowdrey was the first man to play 100 Tests, captained England 27 times and scored almost 43,000 first-class runs - 7,624 of them in Tests. In later years, he played a major role behind the scenes in marrying the traditions of international cricket with modern demands. Yet it was still possible, and only mildly unkind, for one of his contemporaries, Fred Trueman, to describe Cowdrey on his death as "a terrific talent who never fulfilled his potential". Amid the triumphs there was often a vague sense of unease: of unexpected failures, opportunities not taken. Despite everything, Cowdrey never achieved the greatest accolade English cricket can offer: he toured Australia six times, which equalled a world record held by Johnny Briggs, but never once was he selected as captain; every time a more forceful figure shoved him out of the way when it mattered.
Harold Larwood
Larwood was the key figure in the never-to-be-allowed-to-be-forgotten `Bodyline' Test series of 1932-33, when England's supercilious, icy and provocative captain Douglas Jardine instructed him to bowl what they both insisted on calling ` leg theory' at the Australian batsmen. Larwood hurrying Don Bradman into indiscretions and taking his wicket four times in eight Test innings (and twice in the only other match in which they were in opposition, the Australian XI match at Melbourne before the First Test). Larwood's classical action, copied by countless schoolboys - including Ray Lindwall in Sydney - culminated in a side-on delivery, the ball's velocity touching the highest ever recorded.
Around 5ft 8ins, but strongly-built with wide shoulders and long arms, he had a smooth, rhythmic approach and a high arm action. His speed was truly exceptional, and because of his lack of height, his bouncer tended to skid, veering into the ribs rather than wastefully over the head. The schoolboy Ray Lindwall drew upon this action after watching through the pickets at the SCG in 1932-33. In more recent times, the Pakistan express bowler Waqar Younis has had much of Larwood's movement about his run-up and delivery. Larwood's stock ball snapped in from the off, and in days when leg-before dismissals could be granted only from balls that pitched between wicket and wicket, he was denied many a dismissal that would have been given to succeeding generations of bowlers.
Clarrie Grimmett
For all his briskness, the ingenuity in each of his deliveries seldom gave the greatest of batsmen any moment of peace. Grimmett was the most confirmed miser. He hated runs scored off him and only once in his career did he commit the cardinal sin of bowling a no-ball. Indeed, tidiness rather than turn was his weapon of choice.
His variations were intriguing while his accuracy metronomic. He seldom beat the batsman with huge turn. He fooled them with subtle deceptive alterations while maintaining tantalising line and length. Hardly anyone witnessed him bowl a long hop. While he excelled at the orthodox leg-break and the wrong ’un, his greatest contribution to the abstract art of leg-spin was probably the development of the flipper. Squeezed out of the front of the hand with the thumb and first and second fingers, this productive delivery was perfected by Grimmett through years and years of practice.
Grimmett was so hooked to the flipper that once Don Bradman joked that he had forgotten his orthodox leg-break. That innings he bowled the Australian legend by pitching on the great man’s leg stump and taking the off bail.
Hugh Tayfield
Hugh Tayfield was one of the most successful bowlers ever produced by South Africa and one of the greatest off-spinners the game has seen. Between 1949-50 and 1960 he took 170 wickets in Tests at a cost of 25.91 in 37 matches. Tayfield took more wickets per Test match (4.59) then either Jim Laker or Lance Gibbs (4.19 and 3.91), and though he was not in Laker's class as a spinner of the ball, he was exceptionally accurate and could bowl all day without wavering. He preferred to bowl over the wicket, extremely close to the stumps, which gave him the perfect angle for the ball to drift away and break back. Though his variations were subtle, his field settings were often flamboyantly unorthodox, with a large, tempting gap around extra cover but two straightish silly mid-ons waiting for the mistimed shot. Tayfield was, with Trevor Goddard, at the centre of South Africa's containing cricket of the 1950s; he bowled 137 consecutive balls without conceding a run against England at Durban in 1956-57. But, with South Africa's superb fielding to back him up, he ran through teams as well: he took 37 wickets that series at 17.18, including nine for 113 in the second innings of the Fourth Test at Johannesburg, when he bowled unchanged on the last day and sent down 35 eight-ball overs; the longer he bowled the more inhibited England's batsmen became. Tayfield was chaired off the field.
Moby's batting is a bit underwhelming but Fiskey doesn't have a bowling attack so I think this can only go one way considering how good Moby's bowling is in comparison. It's a pity because Fiskey's batting is phenomenal (although I don't like Gayle much in this format).
I think this is very unfair. If I just take my main guy on this surface, Jadeja, and compare him to Kumble in India.
| Name | Matches | Wickets | Average | Economy |
| Kumble | 63 | 350 | 24.88 | 2.51 |
| Jadeja | 33 | 157 | 21.06 | 2.24 |
Kumble is widely regarded as one of India's best ever bowlers, especially in Indian conditions. Jadeja is on course to easily surpass him, and he's going to be bowling 30 overs a day for me here.
I repeat what I said in my introduction, on a dustbowl I think Jadeja is probably the 2nd best bowler ever, after Murali.
It's still showing the old poll. @Samid
Apologies. Had seven alerts when I woke up and your one was lost among them.
Harsh, but I'm going with Moby too. Overall a nicer blend and I would say better-suited to this surface. Jadeja will go well on this surface though, and he's an absolute trooper.
Poll added guys.
Annoying that the alerts number disappears if you click on it. Should be like PMs where the number remains there until you've read them all.
Agreed.
I don't honestly think too much about the surface, I vote for the team I think is better.
If I look at your attack and consider someone like Colin Croft, i'd be happy to have him in my team in an all-time draft if I also have McGrath and Imran for example. I could say the same thing about your whole team. I mean compare this with your opponent's bowling. He has Imran, McGrath, and Larwood: all proper top drawer fast bowlers, especially the first two.
Also, I just don't rate Jadeja as highly as you do. Saying he's the second best spinner after Murali on a dustbowl is very high praise indeed. Even saying he's better than the likes of the top Indian spinners like Gupte and Prasanna is a bit of a reach for me tbh.
I would say Benaud = Grimmet and Jadeja is better than Hugh Tayfield on this surface. Cummings career to date has been better than McGrath's at the same stage and there is nothing to suggest he won't end up considered the better player, when you include his dynamism in the field and ability with the bat. I think @Moby has the edge with Imran Khan and Harold Larwood over Colin Croft and Chris Cairns, but this is a match decided by spin, and who can play spin, and I have the stronger spin attack.
In terms of the batting, there can surely be no comparison. Andy Flower at number 6 averaged 94.83 against India, and he is coming in after 3 all time greats. Moby's best batsman by far is Greg Chappell and he was never tested against high quality spin bowling in his career having never toured India and Pakistan/Sri Lanka not having the capabilities in the late 70s.
I don't see how Moby's batting line up is getting more than 250, while mine will be racking up first innings scores of 400+. We can then pile on the pressure in the second innings with Jadeja and Benaud.
Nice of you to give Imran Khan the edge over Colin Croft and Chris Cairns.
Test cricket history shows just how important the surface is. Australia have only ever won in India 4 times, and India just won their first ever series in Australia after 12 attempts, but needed Smith and Warner banned to do it. The pitch is absolutely crucial in cricket.
I never saw Gupte and Prasanna bowl, but their records are vastly inferior to Jadeja.
| Matches | Wickets | Average | Economy | |
| Erapalli Prasanna | 49 | 189 | 30.38 | 2.40 |
| Subhash Gupte | 36 | 149 | 29.55 | 2.34 |
| Ravi Jadeja | 49 | 213 | 24.62 | 2.43 |
Imran and McGrath were world class on any surface, this tips this over the edge in a very close game for me.
Nice of you to give Imran Khan the edge over Colin Croft and Chris Cairns.
Colin Croft was an excellent bowler! Cairns is the weak link but he won't need to bowl much.
Grimmett is a better bowler than Benaud IMO. He bowled on some seriously easy to bat on pitches when pretty much everyone was averaging 40+ with the bat and has some phenomenal figures. The only reason he isn't rated higher is because his spin partner at the time was even better IMO.
Not convinced by the statement that Jadeja is 2nd only to Murali in these conditions. I've seen Warne bowling in Galle and I thought he was a match for Murali in those conditions actually. Jadeja is certainly not better than that freak of a bowler regardless of what the numbers may show. I don't even think he's better than Gupte and Prasanna personally.
Not going to reply to Cummins > McGrath, that's just a joke surely.
If you look at the combined batting averages of the two teams there is an over 60 run difference! On a pitch that deteriorates that is a huge advantage to have.
| Fiskey | Batting Average | Moby | Batting Average |
| Trescothick | 43.79 | Jayasuriya | 40.07 |
| Gayle | 42.18 | Stewart | 39.54 |
| Headley | 60.83 | Harvey | 48.41 |
| Pollock | 60.97 | Chappell | 53.86 |
| Compton | 50.06 | Hazare | 47.65 |
| Flower | 51.54 | Cowdrey | 44.06 |
| Cairns | 33.53 | Khan | 37.69 |
| Benaud | 24.45 | Larwood | 19.40 |
| Jadeja | 35.26 | Grimmett | 13.92 |
| Cummings | 17.02 | Tayfield | 16.9 |
| Croft | 10.53 | McGrath | 7.4 |
| Total | 430.16 | Total | 368.90 |
Grimmett is a better bowler than Benaud IMO. He bowled on some seriously easy to bat on pitches when pretty much everyone was averaging 40+ with the bat and has some phenomenal figures. The only reason he isn't rated higher is because his spin partner at the time was even better IMO.
Not convinced by the statement that Jadeja is 2nd only to Murali in these conditions. I've seen Warne bowling in Galle and I thought he was a match for Murali in those conditions actually. Jadeja is certainly not better than that freak of a bowler regardless of what the numbers may show. I don't even think he's better than Gupte and Prasanna personally.
Not going to reply to Cummins > McGrath, that's just a joke surely.
After 30 tests:
| Name | Wickets | Average |
| McGrath | 119 | 24.66 |
| Cummings | 143 | 21.82 |
Cummings is also a much better batsman and fielder.
Even though I am playing against you I'm just gonna say, you're gonna lose votes with that kinda stuff.
I was just backing up what I said that Cummings career to date has been better than McGrath's at the same stage. Cummings is an unbelievable cricketer, and will when he retires be considered in the same class as Lillee and McGrath. He's currently the best bowler in World at a time when fast bowling has been strong, and is considered undroppable while Australia rotate Starc, Pattinson, Hazlewood etc. He's a truly exceptional cricketer.
McGrath is obviously one of the top 10 fast bowlers of all time, maybe top 5, but Cummings is bang on track to be in that conversation as well.
We are not discussing and evaluating these matches based on potential. McGrath is the second leading wicket taker in Test Cricket history among pacers. It's not really an argument that deserves to be entertained, but based on what both have actually achieved in test cricket, there's no contest between them whatsoever.
Cummings is much better looking that McGrath anyway, I think we can both agree on that.
While I'm critical of the bowling, it has to be said that Headley, Pollock, Compton, Flower is a simply phenomenal set of batsmen. Doesn't get too much better than that from no 3 to 6 and they're all playing in their ideal positions as well.
Don't vote for yourself Moby @crappycraperson will call you foolish 
Result:
Fiskey 2-11 Moby
Fiskey 2-11 Moby
@crappycraperson need your team/writeup.
Sending in now
Sent
Match 8: Crappy vs Mani
Please vote for one of the teams that you believe would win on a green track.
Discussions encouraged. Write ups to follow.
Team @crappycraperson
Discussions encouraged. Write ups to follow.
Team @crappycraperson
- Sunil Gavaskar
- Desmond Haynes
- Stan McCabe
- Sir Everton Weekes
- Zaheer Abbas
- Doug Walters
- Mark Boucher (wk)
- Ray Lindwall
- Shane Warne (c)
- Sir Wes Hall
- Fred Trueman
- Justin Langer
- Eddie Burlow
- Viv Richards (c)
- Rohan Kanhai
- VVS Laxman
- Graham Thorpe
- Jonathan Bairstow (wk)
- Vernon Philander
- Wasim Akram
- Brian Statham
- BS Chandrasekhar
Team @crappycraperson
Batting
Rock solid from top to middle order. Even the lower order is exceptionally strong with respectable averages for those positions.
- Gavaskar is IMO definitely the best test opener of all time. Some will root out some other names with better averages etc but when you bring in the context of him facing the best pace attack of all time (Windies one) in his prime as an opener and having this record against them - 13 hundreds, 7 fifties at an average of 65.45, in Windies itself he averages 70 with 7 hundreds and 4 fifties. GOAT Opener NQAT. Haynes is a solid partner for him, a seasoned player in one of the best teams of all time.
- Windies great Weekes anchors the middle order with support from McCabe and Abbas. Abbas dubbed as "Asian bradman" remains one of the finest Pakistani batsmen of all time. McCabe is someone who made Bradman envious with his batting ability. McCabe was a rare name to come out of the bodyline series with 385 runs @ 43, McCabe's greatest innings came when the team needed him the most, often on surfaces where no one else was able to get going and made his presence invaluable as a batsman against the toughest attacks. He did all that with incredible style and grace, making him one of the greatest Australian batsmen of all time Weekes as part of the famous 3Ws remains one of the most celebrated Windies batsmen of all time.
- Doug Walters' record speaks for itself and as an attacking batsmen he suits the position of number 6 to a tee. As wiki puts it - "He famously hit a century in a session at the WACA against England in 1974, where he hit Bob Willis for six from the last ball of the day to bring up his ton. His 250 against New Zealand in 1977 is the highest by any batsman in the number six position." Following him is Boucher, an uber experienced cricketer with record to reflect the same followed by a very strong lower order led by Lindwall and Warne. Lindwall qualifies as a bowling all rounder given his record while Warne proved himself as a useful batsman on many occasions too.
Bowling
Bowling is spearheaded by best spinner of all time in Warne and best English pacer of all time in Trueman. Sir Wes Hall laid the path of more celebrated Windies pacers to mushroom in future and led the pace attack in his time. Lindwall was regarded as the best pace bowler of his era and proved himself against likes of Hutton and Hammond. Of course as part of invincibles he made his mark too leading to Wisden naming him as one of the cricketers of the year in 1949 and number 1 ICC bowler rankings for 1948 and 1949. Trueman, first bowler to reach 300 wickets, was the most feared bowler during his time. Warne exploits of course no introductions. Walters as fifth bowling option and McCabe as sixth one form the supporting cast.
Pitch factor
On a green pitch, my 3 pace attack of Trueman, Lindwall and Hall would be lethal He has a respectable pace trio as well led by Akram but I will back my line up led by Gavaskar to counter his attack. In fact none of his other two pacers would have any arguments of getting into my team. Then Warne as GOAT spinner has spun his magic on plenty of green wickets to give even more of an edge to my team. So purely on a bowling front it is 3 -1 edge to me. On batting front Viv is of course the big star in his team but I have enough firepower to get rid of likes of Langer, Thorpe or even Laxman. While my batting has seasoned stalwarts like Gavaskar, Haynes, McCabe, Weekes and Abbass to counter any attack.
---
Team @Mani
Starting with solid left right combination of Langer and Burlow, who got give the team steady start with great Sir Viv Richards coming at 3, My middle order of (Viv Richards , R.Kanhai - VVS Laxman- G.Thrope) all four good players of Spin and pace and they got good track record against great bowling attacks.
My lower middle order got good support from, Bairstow ,V.Philander and Wasim Akram who are useful with bat and averages around 30's &20's which mean my team can bat till 9.
Bowling starts with greatest left arm bowler the world had ever seen, Wasim Akram and supporting him will be B.Statham and V.Philander who would be handy considering the condition plus the BS Chandra who got more wickets outside the sub continent and will much valuable support to the seam bowling.E.Burlow will be my 5th support bowler .This team got advantage with Wasim's reverse swing which the opponent doesn't.Given the condition with the available batsmen and the bowling combination team got better chance at winning the game.
Batting
Rock solid from top to middle order. Even the lower order is exceptionally strong with respectable averages for those positions.
- Gavaskar is IMO definitely the best test opener of all time. Some will root out some other names with better averages etc but when you bring in the context of him facing the best pace attack of all time (Windies one) in his prime as an opener and having this record against them - 13 hundreds, 7 fifties at an average of 65.45, in Windies itself he averages 70 with 7 hundreds and 4 fifties. GOAT Opener NQAT. Haynes is a solid partner for him, a seasoned player in one of the best teams of all time.
- Windies great Weekes anchors the middle order with support from McCabe and Abbas. Abbas dubbed as "Asian bradman" remains one of the finest Pakistani batsmen of all time. McCabe is someone who made Bradman envious with his batting ability. McCabe was a rare name to come out of the bodyline series with 385 runs @ 43, McCabe's greatest innings came when the team needed him the most, often on surfaces where no one else was able to get going and made his presence invaluable as a batsman against the toughest attacks. He did all that with incredible style and grace, making him one of the greatest Australian batsmen of all time Weekes as part of the famous 3Ws remains one of the most celebrated Windies batsmen of all time.
- Doug Walters' record speaks for itself and as an attacking batsmen he suits the position of number 6 to a tee. As wiki puts it - "He famously hit a century in a session at the WACA against England in 1974, where he hit Bob Willis for six from the last ball of the day to bring up his ton. His 250 against New Zealand in 1977 is the highest by any batsman in the number six position." Following him is Boucher, an uber experienced cricketer with record to reflect the same followed by a very strong lower order led by Lindwall and Warne. Lindwall qualifies as a bowling all rounder given his record while Warne proved himself as a useful batsman on many occasions too.
Bowling
Bowling is spearheaded by best spinner of all time in Warne and best English pacer of all time in Trueman. Sir Wes Hall laid the path of more celebrated Windies pacers to mushroom in future and led the pace attack in his time. Lindwall was regarded as the best pace bowler of his era and proved himself against likes of Hutton and Hammond. Of course as part of invincibles he made his mark too leading to Wisden naming him as one of the cricketers of the year in 1949 and number 1 ICC bowler rankings for 1948 and 1949. Trueman, first bowler to reach 300 wickets, was the most feared bowler during his time. Warne exploits of course no introductions. Walters as fifth bowling option and McCabe as sixth one form the supporting cast.
Pitch factor
On a green pitch, my 3 pace attack of Trueman, Lindwall and Hall would be lethal He has a respectable pace trio as well led by Akram but I will back my line up led by Gavaskar to counter his attack. In fact none of his other two pacers would have any arguments of getting into my team. Then Warne as GOAT spinner has spun his magic on plenty of green wickets to give even more of an edge to my team. So purely on a bowling front it is 3 -1 edge to me. On batting front Viv is of course the big star in his team but I have enough firepower to get rid of likes of Langer, Thorpe or even Laxman. While my batting has seasoned stalwarts like Gavaskar, Haynes, McCabe, Weekes and Abbass to counter any attack.
---
Team @Mani
Starting with solid left right combination of Langer and Burlow, who got give the team steady start with great Sir Viv Richards coming at 3, My middle order of (Viv Richards , R.Kanhai - VVS Laxman- G.Thrope) all four good players of Spin and pace and they got good track record against great bowling attacks.
My lower middle order got good support from, Bairstow ,V.Philander and Wasim Akram who are useful with bat and averages around 30's &20's which mean my team can bat till 9.
Bowling starts with greatest left arm bowler the world had ever seen, Wasim Akram and supporting him will be B.Statham and V.Philander who would be handy considering the condition plus the BS Chandra who got more wickets outside the sub continent and will much valuable support to the seam bowling.E.Burlow will be my 5th support bowler .This team got advantage with Wasim's reverse swing which the opponent doesn't.Given the condition with the available batsmen and the bowling combination team got better chance at winning the game.
Sorry Mani this is Crappy's all day long for me. He's got weaknesses but overall he is stronger.
Crappy is too strong I think. Solid batting and a fantastic bowling unit for a green top.
The gulf isn't as vast as the comments would have you believe IMO. However, Crappy wins this due to his bowling attack. My main criticism of his side is the lack of a genuine no. 3. I suppose McCabe has a good record in the 6 games he played there, but I'll always see him as a number 4.
I think such hypothetical world 11s you will see some movement in middle order. Choice was between giving Weekes or McCabe their favoured position went with former even though he averages same in number 3 since you want to maximise returns from your best players. Stan McCabe also has 3 hundreds in 8 innings 12 innings at number 3 so it is simply not possible to say that he can struggle there like some other number 4s might.