You might well have won by a 2 vote margin had you played him
Coronavirus Cricket Auction Draft (Test)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Probably mate, but then I would have to replace 3 players next round.
That selfish fecker was perfect for flat pitches. Guy used to bat for days chasing personal records.
@Damien poll.
yeah you gotta be pretty selfish to bat so long to make 400 by yourself.Done.
Who's next?
Match 3: Norris vs The Cat
Please vote for one of the teams that you believe would win on a slow dustbowl minefield.
Discussions encouraged. Write ups to follow.
Team @Norris
Team @The Cat
Discussions encouraged. Write ups to follow.
Team @Norris
- Gary Kirsten
- Stephen Fleming
- Wally Hammond
- Kane Williamson
- Javed Miandad
- Frank Worrel (c)
- Quinton de Kock (wk)
- Ben Stokes
- Mitchell Johnson
- Saqlain Mushtaq
- Jeff Thompson
Team @The Cat
- G Turner
- D Amiss
- E Paynter
- S Smith (c)
- B Azam
- A Flintoff
- R Marsh (wk)
- S Nawaz
- M Muralitharan
- A Donald
- M Asif
Last edited:
Team @Norris Cole
Captaincy
Sir Frank Worrel was the first hero of the new nation of a new nation of Barbados. Once appointed, he ended the cliques and rivalries between the players of various islands to weld together a team which in the space of five years became the champions of the world. So it makes sense that he's going to lead this diverse group of world-class players to glory.
Fielding
When you have so many agile cricketers like Williamson, Stokes, Worrell, you know the team is going to give away very few extra runs. Guarding the slips are the likes of Fleming and Kirsten who have seen it and done it.
Batting
The batting composition is methodical, tactical and patient complimented by some explosive hitting at the end. Kirsten and Fleming are there to see away the new ball. They've done it in the '90s and early '00s, so you know they have faced some of the best bowling in the world. The Top order also sees Wally Hammond come in at one down. He was the closest rival to Don Bradman at his time, so his quality and reputation should not be undermined considering the era he played. Then you have Williamson, Miandad, two absolute masters of playing long patient innings. Let's not forget Worrell as well who was a true All-rounder in his time and can expertly play the game at his own pace. The tail is also appended by some absolute hitters like Stokes and de Kock and to an extent Johnson who ensure that Team Norris's batting finishes on a very strong note.
Bowling
Opening the bowling spell will be two of Australias strongest pace bowlers. The combination of Johnson and Thompson is not only lethal due to their ability to deliver with astonishing speed, being left-right combinations, their ability to consistently swing the ball ensures that any top order would struggle. They are also excellent at finishing the tail as proven time and again. Stokes is no slouch himself being regarded as one of the best all-rounders in this current generation. Saqlain with his trickery ensures that bowling is tight. He ability to completely fool batsmen with his variation will ensure the opposition are constantly under pressure. Any lack of discipline and concentration and they are a goner. Worrel and Hammond were also capable bowlers in their time, especially Worrell who was considered a great All-rounder and more than capable at keeping the opposition quiet. This is a very well balanced bowling line-up, with great degrees of variation.
The Dustbowl
I have full confidence that my team will prosper in this dust bowl. The opening pair of bowlers will breakdown the ground for Saqlain Bhai to do his magic. Worrel at the other end with his slow left-arm would really put the batsmen in their place, no matter their greatness.
---
Team @The Cat
1. G Turner
2991 runs @ 44.64
Averaged 45.61 as an opening batsman
2. D Amiss
3612 runs @ 46.31
As an opening test batsman he averaged 53.70
3. E Paynter 1540 runs @ 59.23
At number 3 in tests he averaged 65.30
4. S. Smith 7227 runs @ 62.84
At number 4 he averages 74.02
5. B Azam 1850 runs @ 45.12
6. A Flintoff 3845 runs @ 31.79
7. R Marsh 3633 runs @ 26.52
343 catches 12 stumpings
8. S Nawaz 1045 runs @ 17.71
9. M Muralitharan 1261 runs @ 11.69.
10. A Donald 653 runs @ 10.69
11. M Asif 5.64
Bowling
A Donald 330 wickets @ 22.25
On any type of pitch Donald is going to cause havoc.
M Asif 106 wickets @ 24.45
Rolls Royce Action can move the ball both ways. Plus if we need to cheat he's just the man
S Nawaz 177 wickets @ 32.76
The Godfather of reverse swing - can reverse on any kind of wicket and the dustbowl will rough the ball up even quicker during the innings he'll be at his best here
A Flintoff 226 wickets @ 32.79
Capable of magical bursts will not need to be bowled to death with the next chap completing a huge workload
M Muralitharan 800 wickets @22.73
This is his arena. Will bowl until his arm drops off. On this pitch he will make the difference he will be lethal and backed up with a huge variety of seamers so the batsmen cannot settle.
Why we will win - the bowling is so varied it asks so many questions. Sheer pace and aggression, swing bowling, reverse swing, Murali.
The batsmen are all in comfortable positions - most are in their very best position in the order. Marsh kept wicket to Lillee and Thomson superbly and on retirement had the most test victims of any wicketkeeper at that time.
Steve Smith - He is a game winner by himself on so many occasions.
| Team Norris | Matches | High Score | Batting Average | 100s | 50s | Wickets | Bowling Average | Economy | Fifer | 10er |
| 1. Gary Kirsten | 101 | 275 | 45.27 | 21 | 34 | NA | NA | NA | NA | NA |
| 2. Stephen Fleming | 111 | 274 | 40.06 | 9 | 46 | NA | NA | NA | NA | NA |
| 3. Wally Hammond | 85 | 336 | 58.45 | 22 | 24 | 83 | 37.8 | 2.36 | 2 | 0 |
| 4. Kane Williamson | 80 | 242 | 50.99 | 21 | 32 | 29 | 40.62 | 3.36 | 0 | 0 |
| 5. Javed Miandad | 124 | 280 | 52.57 | 23 | 43 | 17 | 40.11 | 2.78 | 0 | 0 |
| 6. Frank Worrel (C) | 51 | 261 | 49.48 | 9 | 22 | 69 | 38.72 | 2.24 | 2 | 0 |
| 7. Quinton de Kock † | 47 | 129 | 39.12 | 5 | 21 | NA | NA | NA | NA | NA |
| 8. Ben Stokes | 63 | 258 | 36.54 | 9 | 21 | 147 | 32.68 | 3.31 | 4 | 0 |
| 9. Mitchell Johnson | 73 | 123 | 22.2 | 1 | 11 | 313 | 28.4 | 3.33 | 12 | 3 |
| 10. Saqlain Mushtaq | 49 | 101 | 14.48 | 1 | 2 | 208 | 29.83 | 2.64 | 13 | 3 |
| 11. Jeff Thompson | 51 | 49 | 12.81 | 0 | 0 | 200 | 28 | 3.18 | 8 | 0 |
Captaincy
Sir Frank Worrel was the first hero of the new nation of a new nation of Barbados. Once appointed, he ended the cliques and rivalries between the players of various islands to weld together a team which in the space of five years became the champions of the world. So it makes sense that he's going to lead this diverse group of world-class players to glory.
Fielding
When you have so many agile cricketers like Williamson, Stokes, Worrell, you know the team is going to give away very few extra runs. Guarding the slips are the likes of Fleming and Kirsten who have seen it and done it.
Batting
The batting composition is methodical, tactical and patient complimented by some explosive hitting at the end. Kirsten and Fleming are there to see away the new ball. They've done it in the '90s and early '00s, so you know they have faced some of the best bowling in the world. The Top order also sees Wally Hammond come in at one down. He was the closest rival to Don Bradman at his time, so his quality and reputation should not be undermined considering the era he played. Then you have Williamson, Miandad, two absolute masters of playing long patient innings. Let's not forget Worrell as well who was a true All-rounder in his time and can expertly play the game at his own pace. The tail is also appended by some absolute hitters like Stokes and de Kock and to an extent Johnson who ensure that Team Norris's batting finishes on a very strong note.
Bowling
Opening the bowling spell will be two of Australias strongest pace bowlers. The combination of Johnson and Thompson is not only lethal due to their ability to deliver with astonishing speed, being left-right combinations, their ability to consistently swing the ball ensures that any top order would struggle. They are also excellent at finishing the tail as proven time and again. Stokes is no slouch himself being regarded as one of the best all-rounders in this current generation. Saqlain with his trickery ensures that bowling is tight. He ability to completely fool batsmen with his variation will ensure the opposition are constantly under pressure. Any lack of discipline and concentration and they are a goner. Worrel and Hammond were also capable bowlers in their time, especially Worrell who was considered a great All-rounder and more than capable at keeping the opposition quiet. This is a very well balanced bowling line-up, with great degrees of variation.
The Dustbowl
I have full confidence that my team will prosper in this dust bowl. The opening pair of bowlers will breakdown the ground for Saqlain Bhai to do his magic. Worrel at the other end with his slow left-arm would really put the batsmen in their place, no matter their greatness.
---
Team @The Cat
1. G Turner
2991 runs @ 44.64
Averaged 45.61 as an opening batsman
2. D Amiss
3612 runs @ 46.31
As an opening test batsman he averaged 53.70
3. E Paynter 1540 runs @ 59.23
At number 3 in tests he averaged 65.30
4. S. Smith 7227 runs @ 62.84
At number 4 he averages 74.02
5. B Azam 1850 runs @ 45.12
6. A Flintoff 3845 runs @ 31.79
7. R Marsh 3633 runs @ 26.52
343 catches 12 stumpings
8. S Nawaz 1045 runs @ 17.71
9. M Muralitharan 1261 runs @ 11.69.
10. A Donald 653 runs @ 10.69
11. M Asif 5.64
Bowling
A Donald 330 wickets @ 22.25
On any type of pitch Donald is going to cause havoc.
M Asif 106 wickets @ 24.45
Rolls Royce Action can move the ball both ways. Plus if we need to cheat he's just the man
S Nawaz 177 wickets @ 32.76
The Godfather of reverse swing - can reverse on any kind of wicket and the dustbowl will rough the ball up even quicker during the innings he'll be at his best here
A Flintoff 226 wickets @ 32.79
Capable of magical bursts will not need to be bowled to death with the next chap completing a huge workload
M Muralitharan 800 wickets @22.73
This is his arena. Will bowl until his arm drops off. On this pitch he will make the difference he will be lethal and backed up with a huge variety of seamers so the batsmen cannot settle.
Why we will win - the bowling is so varied it asks so many questions. Sheer pace and aggression, swing bowling, reverse swing, Murali.
The batsmen are all in comfortable positions - most are in their very best position in the order. Marsh kept wicket to Lillee and Thomson superbly and on retirement had the most test victims of any wicketkeeper at that time.
Steve Smith - He is a game winner by himself on so many occasions.
Left it out of my writeup somehow - Smith is captain.
Where's the sandpaper at?
Asif's got it.
Even missing out your star player i was shocked at how good your batting looked, particularly your middle order. As has been said though there was probably not quite enough of it. Then again I was missing a spinner badly, I got away with it for sure.
Cheers mate
Another tough one, I've gone for The Cat as I think he's set up a little better for the dustbowl. Murali is huge and I'd back Nawaz and Asif to get more joy than Norris's guys.
I just looked up Steve Smith batting as captain in the sub continent. He seems either get a ton or bugger all so it's difficult to know how he'd go, but since he's batting against a distinctly un-sub continent bowling contingent Mushtaq aside I'm going with Blubber Bear on this one.
I just looked up Steve Smith batting as captain in the sub continent. He seems either get a ton or bugger all so it's difficult to know how he'd go, but since he's batting against a distinctly un-sub continent bowling contingent Mushtaq aside I'm going with Blubber Bear on this one.
Cat's bowling is better but I don't rate his batting lineup apart for Smith. Norris's middle order looks like they can bat for days and rack up mammoth totals.
Quite tight, Murali wins it for me.
I strongly disagree with you on the first sentence. Yes, Murali will get a lot of joy on this pitch, but that is not an automatic assumption that players from the sub-continent would automatically fair better as well. Nawaz and Asif are bowling to the likes of Hammond, Miandad, Worrell who can just keep batting on and on. On the other hand, you have to consider the fact that Cat's Top-order with the exception of Smith is quite average and his tail is quite long. Rodney Marsh was an excellent keeper, but an excellent batsman, he certainly was not. If you compare Cat's bowlers against my batsmen and vice versa, it's not really that difficult to see the result for this. The availability of Murali does make it a Tighter contest for sure, but definitely not enough to single-handedly win him the game.
On a dustbowl Murali is going to be the game winner here. A dustbowl doesn't mean it's easy to score on like a flat track.
The other bowlers all offer something different to each other - no batsman is going to feel easy with Murali one end and pace, swing, reverse all coming from the other.
The opposition pace attack is also pretty inconsistent and will be found out by my patient batting linep imo.
I always feel like these discussions steer off on the wrong direction. Though @The Cat obviously has the best spinner on the pitch by miles, the opposition's batting lineup is also more capable than handling than an average lineup.
But here's the catch though - I don't particularly rate Saqlain the test bowler. Saqlain of the 90s is arguably the greatest ODI spinner of all time. The test bowler is isn't really in the same category.
This post I made supports that with numbers.
But here's the catch though - I don't particularly rate Saqlain the test bowler. Saqlain of the 90s is arguably the greatest ODI spinner of all time. The test bowler is isn't really in the same category.
For some of you stat-nerds :
What I've basically done is, I've plotted the bowling average of the top 50 wicket takers of each decade (basically (total number of wickets by the top 50 in each decade / runs given away) - the figures of the player in question). Then I've plotted it against their own bowling average for that decade. The vertical distance from that blue line is how much better they're performing compared to the other 49 top wicket takers in that decade. Big ups to Harbhajan Singh of the 2000s for falling bang on the line.
I've only plotted it for the spinners for now.
Same for S/R.
This post I made supports that with numbers.
Murali would be a game-winner against an ordinary team. But that would be the same if I mention any of my greats. Worrell made West Indies World Champions at time when the country was completely divided. Hammond was the only who came close to matching Bradman and at one point was even neck and neck. Miandad and Williamson have the ability to be patient on any terrain. Thompson would rip apart any team on any track on any day in his prime. Same with Johnson. We are doing an all-time greats draft here though. No wicket would be easy for Murali to pickup. You need more than one legend to win you the game and your team lacks balance in that regard.
And I certainly would like to know a bit more on how exactly my bowling line-up in inconsistent. Right-Left arm opening combo with the ability to swing the ball, bounce it, always at a terrifying pace. Then you have Stokes coming into offer some variation. Worrell is a left-arm slow bowler who was exceptional in his time at making things tight. His economy is outstanding if he doesn't often pick up wickets. So your statement definitely needs some additional information to support what you've just said.
I don't deny what you said. Even for me, Saqlain the test bowler was not as good as Saqlain the ODI bowler, but even going by your chart, he's not that far off from Kumble though who is considered India's greatest Spinner. He has a lot of variation in his spin. So my expectation from him is not really take all the wickets, but just keep batsmen under constant pressure. That forces Cat's team to go after the bowler at the other end which will inevitably lead to mistakes. I just feel my bowling unit complements Saqlain a lot better than Murali sidekicks. Plus you've got to take into consideration that Cat's batting isn't as strong as mine.
I am particlarly thinking of Jeff Thomson - all over the place at times. Mitchel Johnson the same to some degree - and they are bowling on a turning pitch which is far from ideal for them.
In a Test match Murali trumps all of your bowlers here imo, even your spinner.
I'm not saying it is all clear cut but that's where I see the decisive advantage anyway.
You need to take into consideration that we are talking about players at their peak. So not sure why you say Thompson was all over the place. He made people shit their pants. If the surface is uneven and turning, even if the ball slows down, any crack on the surface only means his bowling would scare batsmen even more. Johnson has a nasty inswinger that can undo any batsman.
Murali trumps my spinner, easily and undeniably he is better than all my bowlers, owing to his longevity, but he alone is not good enough to win you this match. He's going to be bowling to Wally, Worrell, Miandad. Those are not small names. They are absolute Mammoths.
I've said my bit will leave it up to the vote now. Good luck anyway it's been fun.
@Norris middle order is tasty but having Stokes as a fourth bowler is underwhelming even if there are two other options. Still I think his top 6 can weather Donald and Murali. @The Cat's batting line up on other hand is solid till 4. Given the wicket, tempting to give the edge to the team with Murali but Norris's batting line up just tips it over for me.
Good points. I tend to skew towards the better batting line up in tests and the better bowlers in limited overs teams generally speaking and there's no doubt I prefer Norris' line-up. It's not just Murali in his team though, I like Asif and Nawaz in particular, he has a better blend for the type of pitch we're talking about. It's tricky though, I definitely be back rereading the thread to make up my mind for good before 9am.
Shouldn't it be the opposite? Test matches are won by taking 20 wickets.
Like @Moby said above bowling is more important in tests, and batting in ODIs in modern era given the state of wickets. I was very close to voting for Cat since his bowling attack is better but is is not bowling attack of team 1 vs bowling attack of team 2 but batting vs bowling across the teams. In that respect I think Norris' iffy bowling attack just about clears the mustard.
What am I talking about? Of course it's the other way round
I think The Cat is more likely to take 20 wickets in quicker order, but his batting is noticeably weaker.
@Edgar Allan Pillow i sent my team sheet in
The Cat has the edge because he has Murali on a spinning turf. However, I tend to like Norris's team more and it's a lot more balanced and has proper batting. Voted for him due to that. Both teams have underwhelming pace attacks but I guess that could be down to weird selections due to pitch type.
Saqlain as a test bowler severely underrated here, this could be due to over reliant on stats and people hardly watched him play, coming into 90's he's easily the third best attacking spin bowler who never fazed by what the batting line up is.Someone who never watched Saqlain need to look into Pakistan tour of India 1999.That was the peak Saqlain I would say.
Totally agree and that was a reason for my vote here. While Murali is obviously a bigger name and a better player, Saqlain was pretty handful himself and would have a good game here.
Agree that Saqlain at his peak was superb but can't just go on singular peak performances. Consistency to repeat such performances is what makes it a norm for that player. I voted for Norris anyway but count Murali in a different league to Saqlain.
Not comparing Murali to Saqlain here that's why I said the third best spinners, i.e behind Warne and Murali.
I thought everyone had to in order to see the voting results? My vote won't count I know that?
I've taken another look at it today and have changed to Norris. I think I was guilty of underrating Saqlain and putting too much store by Murali to win the game single-handed, amazing though he is. I much prefer Norris' batting, and though I have reservations over his bowling attack I have to agree they'd fair better versus Cat's batsmen than the reverse.
Result:
Norris 10 - 8 The Cat
Norris 10 - 8 The Cat