You don’t want my contribution, you want a sounding board.
I’ve told you plenty of times we could have a discussion
you just always respond with such scorn regardless of my post.Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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You don’t want my contribution, you want a sounding board.
I’ve told you plenty of times we could have a discussion
you just always respond with such scorn regardless of my post.You don’t want my contribution, you want a sounding board.
I’ve told you plenty of times we could have a discussion
Not usual for you to forget to add that, so didn’t want you to miss out
this is your idea of a discussion? what do you expect? evidence of serious misconduct and all you do is post smilies and glib statements. maybe discuss the latest topic
As opposed to your idea of discussing things by posting tweets and calling all police pigs? Also very constructive.
As far as the video posted, I agree with the sentiment that the departments shown did an incredibly poor job of handling the interactions and concerns/complaints of the journalist. Poor job being on one end, and escalating all the way up to intimidation/harassment on the other. Most of those officers shown seemed to be senior, as in having time on, and either flat out refused to help due to being completely unaware of the policy, or out of some misguided understanding thinking they were helping out a partner by being volatile towards the journalist.
Clearly there’s a failure to understand that incidents like that only serve to cause more of a division, especially as the good things that are done on a regular basis aren’t given the air time to highlight the good that goes on too.
What do you think it says about police in America that it can be so common to have senior leadership flagrantly violating the rights of the public?
That certain departments need an overhaul of, at the very least, policy and in some cases personnel.
Why just certain departments? The video showed a vast majority. There are stories from small towns and big cities and state and county levels across every part of this country of abuse of power and outright criminal behaviour.
Certain departments as in ones they aren’t meeting the levels of public trust they should be. The video showed a vast majority of the ones they went to, it didn’t show a vast majority of departments across the country, let alone a state. The beginning of the video even stated about police stations across the country doing things by the book without incident, and then delved into the ones in South Florida where they focused their 35 of 38 discussion.
Complete overhauls of departments due to outliers of misconduct isn’t an achievable goal. Start with departments who have officers with multiple complaints/incidents and go from there. Sweeping reform of every department across the country isn’t the answer.
Also assuming every police officer is out to get you, or a lying murdering raping pig, or that we all cover for murderers also isn’t a fair stance. It’s no different than me assuming all “insert whatever race, gender, etc” is going to want to kill me because others have. By that same assumption, since you haven’t condemned someone killing police outright, you must support the killing of them. It’s a flawed viewpoint, and yet one that you’ve painted consistently in terms of all police being the same, and if we haven’t done the act ourselves, we support all those that do.
@Skizzo what’s the education requirement for being a police officer in the US?
Varies by department. Some departments also offer incentives in the form of % pay increase for higher levels of education (bachelors degrees etc)
What about the lowest possible qualification?
This is not a dig against the profession, but I’ve always found it odds that police and teachers require much lower qualification than doctors, for instance, when the job they do have just as big if not bigger societal impact.
Lowest possible I believe is a high school diploma. I’m not sure if a GED equivalent works, but I’d have to imagine it does.
Some of the best cops that I know have only a high school degree or some college credits. Higher education in the law enforcement profession is a fairly new thing, as historically it's always been a blue-collar job with mostly former military as applicants with little or no college education. Also remember that most people who have a college or higher level degree don't normally have becoming a cop in mind. The job really doesn't require a college-level education IMO, just common sense, communication, and not being a coward when shit hits the fan. Everything else can be taught in the academy or Field Training program. In the smaller departments they can be more picky with applicants, but in big cities/counties they're dealing with tens to hundreds of thousands of applicants to sift through and mass-hire for attrition etc. In my academy class of about 50 I was one of maybe just less than 10 who had a college degree. Those of us with a degree weren't any better or worse than the rest without one. Even after graduating since then many of my classmates are doing well at other departments and are good competent cops.
So as to your last part, yes the job is as big if not bigger in societal impact. But that's when the training (or lack thereof), common sense (or lack thereof), and courage (or lack thereof) are most evident in incidents that go bad, not so much the officer's educational background.
Why do you even bother with him?You don’t want my contribution, you want a sounding board.
I’ve told you plenty of times we could have a discussion
Sometimes it’s nice to break up these
Eboue said:
Eboue said:
Eboue said:
Eboue said:
Eboue said:
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With actual talking points. He likes me really.
It seems to be the new speed trap in order to generate fine revenue & keep enough people of color behind bars in the prison system, to make sure there are enough bodies going through the prison turnstiles.
Well done Antifa.
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see anything glaringly wrong with what transpired in the video.
If only use of less-than-lethal force by cops was more prevalent; this scenario allowed for such which isn’t often the case.
choiboy is a cop, he's posting that to try and show cops doing what they're supposed to do. I'm not sure why, as it's not like that undoes the rampant murder going on by police forces across the United States.
No, it doesn’t when the totality of mishandled & criminal cop cases are considered, but it is not terrible to see cops doing things right.
It doesn’t absolve the litany of abuse rendered by a massive amount of American cops, their peers who steadfastly stay behind the blue wall which only exponentiates the problem, & the higher ups who help to sweep it under the rug lest their tenure getting sullied.
Sweeping reform is the answer and I don't think the people abusing their position are outliers. Certainly not every police officer is actively committing crimes against the public but covering them up and ignoring them means they are complicit too.
The third paragraph is silly. Police isn't a race or gender. It's a group of people you choose to belong to. A better comparison would be freemasons or little league coaches or people who play chess in the park.
I do like you on a personal level. But those posts are talking points. let's run through the topics in the posts you quoted.
- police are actively monitoring activist pages against police brutality and other progressive groups
- police complaining that they are not allowed to arrest black people getting food and supplies from a dollar store during a hurricane because the store specifically said they are fine with it
- police threw a stun grenade into a home, kill an innocent person, lied about him despite the suspect being miles away and the chief said he got what he deserved
- 90% of cases where police testify involve perjury (lying) by the police officer and the prosecutors know it and put them on the stand anyway
- cops arrest someone for stealing their own car and beat him and lie about it until a dash cam video proves what they did
- multiple police murder a man sleeping in his car by firing 25 shots into him. one even says "if he moves im going to kill him"
- cop hits civilian, calls him the n word, shoots and kills him, lies about the incident and so does his partner
you didnt respond to any of those. those are the talking points. the abuses that happen daily inflicted by police across this country. if you arent sickened by some of those then i dont know what to tell you. 90% of cops lie in court! 90 fecking percent! how can you trust any group that lies 90% of the time?
No not really. I post those because lapd is one of the few (large) departments that release these videos not too long after these incidents. I don't pick and choose the positive ones, just ones that I think are interesting as they pertain to use of force/shootings.
Well that's the thing. It actually is more prevalent than most people think. We've had a huge increase in use of force just at my department in the last couple years. But they're simply not news-worthy because they're not controversial. Some have made it into social media and youtube, but that's about it.
I agree though that proper use of less-lethal force should be more emphasized for departments throughout the country.
Ironic (or fitting?) that it's the cops doing the hit and running in this thread.
How do you implement sweeping reform across a country this size, across a multitude of departments who have no open pathways of communication with each other, and put everything onto a standard that’s acceptable? I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, I just don’t think it’s the right one because I don’t see how it gets implemented. If you have a way I’d love to hear it.
In California, our department has lots of trainings that take place with other local departments across the state. We also have a higher level of training than most departments, at least in our area. Not to say incidents still don’t happen, because unfortunately people can still find a way to be bad people, but the department is good at cracking down and disciplining most issues that require it. As @choiboyx012 said too, there’s also many, many more incidents that occur that are handled appropriately that you never hear or see of because that’s not the narrative that sells, or makes for an interesting story. Introducing a sweeping reform of every single department would cause such a backlog of policy and information training that would be unnecessary.
Not even sure what this means.
I dont know, I'm not an expert on the subject. But I bet theres some people out there with better ideas than "sweeping reform would cause a backlog of information training".
I’m sure there is. You’ve asked me numerous times in here what I think solves the problem and seem irritated or bemused when I don’t have all the answers as if I’m covering for murdering cops everywhere.
My answer of starting with departments with a track record of public mistrust and abuses of power, or departments with officers who fall under that same umbrella, wasn’t enough of an answer for you and you said every department needs a major overhaul instead. I suggest that would cause issues as the time frame needed for that, not to mention the manpower of getting entire departments trained and/or re-staffed when not all departments are having the same issues, is again met with condescending remarks in terms of what I said, and relate that you also have no idea because you aren’t an expert.
I dont think you are treating the problem with the appropriate seriousness. It's one thing to not have all the answers, it's another to post glib responses and smilies to yet another outrage commited by your brothers in blue. You seem to treat it as regretful but cost of doing business. I think its unacceptable and massive action needs to happen to combat it and having to train departments isnt a real obstacle. In many cases the problem isnt training, its racism and attitude towards civilians. I bet many of those officers in the video knew the policy, they just didnt care about following the law because they are bad people who abuse power. Training isnt going to fix what's wrong with them.
My glib responses aren’t in regards to the incidents, but to your continued insistence of all police being either racist murdering rapists, or supporting racist murdering rapists. I’ve had discussions through this thread about incidents, policies, officers, and agreed in the condemnation when it’s deserved, and tried to offer a different perspective on some incidents that were just a snippet of cell phone footage that didn’t show entire incidents. To say I don’t take it seriously, when these things effect me on a more direct level, isn’t really accurate.
If you’re saying that it’s not training that’s the problem, but racists who are working the job, then surely you need to look at avenues outside of the department to get the right people in there. How do you even start that process? How would you go about filling hundreds of thousands of positions across the country and assure that you’re only appointing people that you think are suitable? Which officers are the ones who you replace? You are you deciding who’s too racist or prejudiced to be employed? Again, I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all, but the scale at which you’re suggesting something is way beyond a simple overhaul of departments.
Start prosecuting and sending to jail all the corrupt racist cnut cops and maybe, maybe, cops will be less of a cnut in the future.
It's the same with every power authority. If you punish corrupt politicians to take "ethic classes", like in my country, then obviously corruption will never stops. Send them to jail for a few decades and take their money, and corruption would be a thing of the past.
It's the same with every power authority. If you punish corrupt politicians to take "ethic classes", like in my country, then obviously corruption will never stops. Send them to jail for a few decades and take their money, and corruption would be a thing of the past.
You think Choi and Skizzo wouldn’t like to see that happen? I’m really not surprised they become exasperated in this thread. It seems the driving force of a select few here is to paint the police as as a raging, mass murdering, corrupt bunch of rapists. It’s bizarre that this sweeping generalisation seems to be perfectly acceptable, but not within other areas of society. It’s such a strange level of devotion.
The good things...Is their fecking job to do the good things. They are getting trained and paid to do that. Not a low salary. I don't get an air time when I do a big sale in my job. Why they should get air time to do their job? they chose to put themselves in those situations. And yes, when they do something heroic that goes above their pay check, it has air time
And there are way more things that they are not aired like the ones in the video than heroic ones. The rest, their fecking job, mate
Did I say they should get airtime for doing their job? What things get airtime that you think is part of their “fecking job” and shouldn’t be highlighted? What situations are they putting themselves in?
The good things don’t get airtime.
That’s their job
And even though I’m sure you’re posting just to prove a point against what I said, thanks for taking the time anyway
That’s their job
And even though I’m sure you’re posting just to prove a point against what I said, thanks for taking the time anyway
Then what is your point when you said:
Either you're suggesting that the police should get airtime for doing the good things - i.e. their job.
Or you're suggesting that the police currently don't get airtime for the good things, and this is causing a division.
Which is it? @Skizzo