Backing off and allowing them to speed away would be tantamount to letting two armed murderers go when he had a chance to neutralize them.
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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Backing off and allowing them to speed away would be tantamount to letting two armed murderers go when he had a chance to neutralize them.
No it wouldn't, back off doesn't mean to stop and let them go over hear (it means to pull back, take your foot off the gas, tone it down, etc) what's it mean in the US?
The assailants shot 35 times at the cop so he would either have to return fire or completely disengage to where their rounds couldn't reach him, which would mean getting so far back where they couldn't see him. At that point they are being allowed to speed away since he has no idea where they are.
What do you guys suggest the backup should have done anyway? It would just have been more shots fired from more cars on the same street... No one is going to ram a car off the street while being shot at from point blank range.
How could he, or his backup, know where they were going to drive to prepare something though? This wasn't a freeway without exits etc. They could have driven anywhere and their best hope would have been to follow them from the heli and hope they don't shoot at anyone in the meantime.
His actions are extremely dangerous, I don't think anyone would argue that, but there's no obvious better solution in my eyes.
I'm not having that but what do I know. I'm from the UK. He's on the radio coordinating with other units. No chance of directing them ahead and corralling them somewhere? Tracking them from the sky?
So basically you're telling me he had no other option but to speed down the road weaving thru traffic banging off shots like we see in the movies (but are often told it's not really like this).....
It's crazy but like I said I can't relate.
I don't know mate I'm just looking at all the ways that could have gone wrong. Fair enough of y'all think that's how it should always go down but I can't see it... Feck do I know tho?
You say they could have started shooting up the place. They were, so it's whether or not they were shooting because of the presence of the police or do they just like shooting? Maybe @choiboyx012 had a better or less dangerous way to handle it in mind. He's the PO.
That was so GTA. Props to Tony for taking matters into his own hands. Should have spawned a rocket launcher though. Noob.
No of course not. I can critique his actions, but also appreciate the kind of stress and dilemma he is faced with. And I can be thankful that he ultimately "got the job done" and neutralized the threats without harm to anyone else except the murderer suspects. Speaking of which, I can't recall any post mentioning the suspects' deadly and reckless actions, only the cops'. Maybe I was just reading too much into it.
You stated that you wouldn't do it, same as us. Does that make you anti-cop too? Or maybe, we aren't anti-cop, just anti-accident?
I would have done what most have said on here, as I have my own departmental policy on pursuits and shooting to abide by. Back off, request airship unit, alert neighboring agencies, have other units go parallel to the suspect vehicle.
Didn't realize this until now, but an airship unit takes a while to respond to a location and I don't think the video showed if the heli arrived on time. So again, there's a dilemma in that "tracking" is usually done when the heli is up and has visual of the suspect vehicle so the officers on the ground can back off. The video is about 4 minutes long and I doubt a heli would have responded that fast. So there was a strong chance that backing off when the shooting started would have given advantage to the suspects in fleeing and doing God knows what else to whoever else.
Cheers.
That’s what I was figuring had happened... chopper not on the scene at the time.
Here's a similar incident from LAPD very recently. The biggest difference being that it was a 2-person unit so the FTO (Field Training Officer) on the passenger side returned fire initially with her pistol and then with the shotgun. My buddy who works in the same division has dealt with the driver before.
This is a debrief video released by the department. You can skip towards the end for the video w/sound
Helicopters in our location are horrendous for being able to respond.
“Down for weather” is the usual response. Pursuits will often be done before they’re ever close to arriving, if they take off at all.
We had two pursuits last week that ended up in crashes before any helicopter was near us.
We have better chance at getting allied agencies helicopter to respond to our pursuits than our own.
On the plus side, at least we’re still allowed to pursue.
“Down for weather” is the usual response. Pursuits will often be done before they’re ever close to arriving, if they take off at all.
We had two pursuits last week that ended up in crashes before any helicopter was near us.
We have better chance at getting allied agencies helicopter to respond to our pursuits than our own.
On the plus side, at least we’re still allowed to pursue.
Have you any experience of that tech that fires a tracker from a pursuit car onto the target vehicle and allows the cops to back off? I'm guessing it's still very much in development.
Nope, none at all. At best we’ll try to get the plate so if we have to cancel the pursuit, we have some follow up. It varies on what the original want was though.
I think it's bad to kill civilians
@Skizzo can you explain why you always see loads of cars and cops at the aftermath of an incident or at an ongoing scene? Sometimes it seems like there are way too many cops there than necessary and not looking out for other stuff elsewhere? Just doesn't look like a good use of resources.
Typically it depends on the incident and what’s requested. I can’t speak for other departments, but shootings/fatal scenes we will typically have a decent number of people out there because there’s lots to process.
Yeah, good thing they finally caught Mr. Atkins in the end.
They shot into a crowd and killed a civilian.
So beat cops do processing too? I thought it was just CSI types. What exactly is processing?
Just had a look at the comments below the Telegraph article on this episode...Britain is not that much different, sadly. The difference being a lot of people here are ‘too polite’ to say similar things in public.
Edit: post obviously belongs to Who is America thread
Edit: post obviously belongs to Who is America thread
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That’s what I meant by it depends on the department. For example, we don’t hbe detectives out of every office, so we tend to handle our own incidents. We have MAIT come out for high profile or really extreme crashes, but otherwise we handle our own things.
By processing I mean things on scene like having someone take measurements for the vehicle resting points and debris for the diagram, someone scribing everyone who is on scene (fire, medics etc), someone doing traffic control, someone doing vehicle inventories before they’re towed, someone taking photographs if necessary, and then whoever is handling to talk to people on scene who were involved, or witnesses etc. For us, the more people we get there quickly for major incidents, the quicker we can try and get things done and opened up again.
As for PD’s or SO departments handling scenes in the city, they may have different policies and protocols for responding officers etc.
Sounds reasonable. I knew there was a lot goes on after an incident. Day-to-day stuff is interesting so it's good to have you around to fill us in.
wonder how that bullet got out of the gun. guess we'll never know
He owned his mistake, at least. Seemed very apologetic. Still, could have gone much worse.
Peculiar, MO?
Show me what's not strange about that.
Show me what's not strange about that.
If you’re into that sorta thing.
This was released by lapd recently. fast forward to the end for raw bodycam footage. Really feckin sad. Hostage was not mobile so couldn't run away. Main criticism being only 1 of the officers had a clear shot, but the other 2 shot anyway because they observed him sawing at her neck and tried to stop the threat.
well done to the police officers who killed that woman
Senseless. No coordination of effort or control of the situation or their firearms. 9mm at 10ft is so easy if you keep your head you should not miss. Only one officer had a viable shot and those other three idiots just unload.
Seriously. The guy looking head on had a clear shot. Dunno what the hell the guys on the side were thinking.
That's very harsh. That situation was extremely difficult to deal with. If they didn't act the woman was already dead as she was having her throat cut.
Keeping your head is the key part here. People aren't just shooting targets like civilian gun owners, this is real life/death situations. Easy to be critical behind a computer screen.
It does seem odd they unloaded so many rounds. The situation escalated very quickly though.
@Skizzo @choiboyx012
We have these situations in the UK fairly often (not always hostage but people brandishing knives). What is the usual protocol in dealing with them in the US?
We would use taser as it incapacitates. A much better choice here for me rather than beanbag although getting a clean spread on the body would have been difficult as he had a chair.
Edit: I've watched it back and definitely think taser would have resolved this without loss of life.
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Chicago appeals for help after dozens shot over weekend
Police in the US city of Chicago have asked for more help to combat gun violence after more than 60 people were shot over the weekend.
At least 10 people were killed in the city and police say most of the shootings were gang related.
"I'm tired of it, everyone in this city is tired of it," police superintendent Eddie Johnson told reporters on Monday.
"We continue to send a message that it's ok to commit these crimes by not doing anything as a community."
Most of the shootings happened on Sunday with 30 people shot between midnight and 03:00.
The majority of the incidents reportedly occurred in Chicago's south and west sides.
At Monday's news conference, Mr Johnson said that police had "really good leads on quite a few" of the suspected shooters, but no arrests have been made.
He said "the city isn't on fire," but emphasised the need for community members to identify the individuals causing the violence.
"Certainly CPD [Chicago Police Department] can do better but at the end of the day, the members of CPD don't go to bed with these individuals at night, they don't wake up with them in the morning," Mr Johnson said.
"Somebody knows who did it. They hold me accountable, they hold the mayor accountable, they hold the city council accountable - where's their accountability? I never hear people saying these individuals out here in the streets need to stop pulling the trigger."
Mayor Rahm Emanuel echoed Mr Johnson's call for citizens to speak out.
"All of us who love this city and call it home have a responsibility to heal our neighbourhoods," he said.
Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani also weighed in about the weekend violence, calling it Mr Emanuel's "legacy".
He incorrectly tweeted that there were "63 murders this weekend" - at least 10 individuals were shot and killed, while others were injured.
Mr Giuliani, who is currently a lawyer for President Donald Trump, blamed "one party Democratic rule" for the shootings.
In a series of tweets on Sunday, Mr Giuliani also voiced his support for mayoral candidate Garry McCarthy, the police chief fired by Mr Emanuel following the outcry over the killing of Laquan McDonald, incorrectly calling him "Jerry".
Police called it one of Chicago's "most violent weekends" on Sunday.
Donovan Price, a pastor and emergency administrator, told CBS News that the city was like a "war zone".
"This is just out of control right now," he said. "It's a war zone going on right now. Chicago is just crazy."
"This is the worst I've ever seen it," one police officer who was stationed outside a hospital told the Chicago Sun Times newspaper. "It's hot right now. There's a lot of tension... and it might get worse."
But officials say the spike in violence is at odds with the general trend in the city, where shootings are said to be decreasing.
Earlier this month, the Chicago Tribune reported that there had been 532 fewer shootings this year compared to 2017.
Police chief Waller told reporters that shootings had decreased by 30% from 2017, and murders by 25%.
He said that much of the weekend's violence was a result of gang members shooting at large crowds indiscriminately.
"An offender or some type of rival gang sees a large group of people... and they shoot into a crowd, no matter who they hit," he said.
"We won't be overrun by that small group, that small element that is committing these reckless acts."
US President Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to intervene in Chicago, and last year he said that crime and killings had reached "epidemic proportions"in the city.
Last June, officials announced the creation of the Chicago Gun Strike Force which comprises city police officers, state troopers, federal agents and intelligence research specialists.
It was created to help curb the flow of illegal guns and to target repeat gun offenders, who authorities say are responsible for the city's violence problem.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45084264
Police in the US city of Chicago have asked for more help to combat gun violence after more than 60 people were shot over the weekend.
At least 10 people were killed in the city and police say most of the shootings were gang related.
"I'm tired of it, everyone in this city is tired of it," police superintendent Eddie Johnson told reporters on Monday.
"We continue to send a message that it's ok to commit these crimes by not doing anything as a community."
Most of the shootings happened on Sunday with 30 people shot between midnight and 03:00.
The majority of the incidents reportedly occurred in Chicago's south and west sides.
At Monday's news conference, Mr Johnson said that police had "really good leads on quite a few" of the suspected shooters, but no arrests have been made.
He said "the city isn't on fire," but emphasised the need for community members to identify the individuals causing the violence.
"Certainly CPD [Chicago Police Department] can do better but at the end of the day, the members of CPD don't go to bed with these individuals at night, they don't wake up with them in the morning," Mr Johnson said.
"Somebody knows who did it. They hold me accountable, they hold the mayor accountable, they hold the city council accountable - where's their accountability? I never hear people saying these individuals out here in the streets need to stop pulling the trigger."
Mayor Rahm Emanuel echoed Mr Johnson's call for citizens to speak out.
"All of us who love this city and call it home have a responsibility to heal our neighbourhoods," he said.
Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani also weighed in about the weekend violence, calling it Mr Emanuel's "legacy".
He incorrectly tweeted that there were "63 murders this weekend" - at least 10 individuals were shot and killed, while others were injured.
Mr Giuliani, who is currently a lawyer for President Donald Trump, blamed "one party Democratic rule" for the shootings.
In a series of tweets on Sunday, Mr Giuliani also voiced his support for mayoral candidate Garry McCarthy, the police chief fired by Mr Emanuel following the outcry over the killing of Laquan McDonald, incorrectly calling him "Jerry".
Police called it one of Chicago's "most violent weekends" on Sunday.
Donovan Price, a pastor and emergency administrator, told CBS News that the city was like a "war zone".
"This is just out of control right now," he said. "It's a war zone going on right now. Chicago is just crazy."
"This is the worst I've ever seen it," one police officer who was stationed outside a hospital told the Chicago Sun Times newspaper. "It's hot right now. There's a lot of tension... and it might get worse."
But officials say the spike in violence is at odds with the general trend in the city, where shootings are said to be decreasing.
Earlier this month, the Chicago Tribune reported that there had been 532 fewer shootings this year compared to 2017.
Police chief Waller told reporters that shootings had decreased by 30% from 2017, and murders by 25%.
He said that much of the weekend's violence was a result of gang members shooting at large crowds indiscriminately.
"An offender or some type of rival gang sees a large group of people... and they shoot into a crowd, no matter who they hit," he said.
"We won't be overrun by that small group, that small element that is committing these reckless acts."
US President Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to intervene in Chicago, and last year he said that crime and killings had reached "epidemic proportions"in the city.
Last June, officials announced the creation of the Chicago Gun Strike Force which comprises city police officers, state troopers, federal agents and intelligence research specialists.
It was created to help curb the flow of illegal guns and to target repeat gun offenders, who authorities say are responsible for the city's violence problem.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45084264