I don't think corrupt means what you are thinking that it means.
Cop in America doing a bad job, again
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That's why so many Irish came here. My ancestors included.
Saw the video on CNN yesterday.
I think a lot of psychopaths become cops in that country. It's a legal way for hem to display their nature.
I think a lot of psychopaths become cops in that country. It's a legal way for hem to display their nature.
Totally agree ! It is the easiest way to get away with murder in US, and while majority of them are good, I believe some maniac join police to enjoy the thrill of taking life.
I think its an easy way to say those who were bullied or are mentally ill become police cops, and tbh it stigmatises mental health, and deflects away from the real issue.
While I don't deny that there are likely to be some individuals who join the police for the wrong reasons, you will find this in almost any line of work.
Incidents such as these happen far too frequently to be a coincidence, and furthermore the repercussions of such incidents aren't severe enough to deter them happening again.
While I don't deny that there are likely to be some individuals who join the police for the wrong reasons, you will find this in almost any line of work.
Incidents such as these happen far too frequently to be a coincidence, and furthermore the repercussions of such incidents aren't severe enough to deter them happening again.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
Database on fatal police shootings.
697 cases in 2016.
320 whites, 171 blacks out of that total.
41 unarmed out of that total.
Statistics aren't perfect of course but they give us a lot more reliable information than individual testimony. Racial profiling exists, i would argue all profiling is at least a little bit racial. I'm interested in any solutions you think might help the problem. Better trained and accountable law enforcement i think we can all agree with for starters. In an ideal world we would want the number of unarmed people killed by cops to be 0. but 41 people out of 350 million is not a national crisis i think?
Statistics aren't perfect, and using one year's worth of statistics doesn't paint the whole picture. This has been going on for decades, long before such statistics were even recorded. Long before police were even the ones killing people, but it was the KKK and the police allowed it to happen. We could go into incidents that don't result in deaths, incidents that involve the wrong suspects etc. Freddie Gray & Eric Garner for example weren't shot, so won't show in that database.
But deflecting from the issue denies the fact that there is an issue, and that's what we're faced with. This isn't new, and apparently it's not going away.
Guns in America have a real affect because the overwhelming majority of those shot & killed by police are armed, that then increases the threat caused by any suspect who carries a weapon/anything resembling a weapon even if it's not being used.
Training is important but I think the aftermath of such incidents is where the real issue lies.
Cops need more counselling to deal with PTSD and other effects that working on the job can cause. Investigations need to be carried out independently or impartially. More community outreach initiatives need to happen between police and the communities they serve - people shouldn't only see police officers in their community when they're taking down a criminal, they should be a frequent member of their community and approachable. There shouldn't be a disconnect between the two.
Depends how you see the stats though
41 out of 697 i.e. almost 6% of fatal police shootings or more than one in 20 people they shoot and kill will have been unarmed - on that basis it seems ridiculously high.... basically for every 17 people they fatally shoot who were armed they shoot and kill somebody unarmed!
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I thought America doesn't keep a database of police shootings?
I think it is compiled from local news reports etc rather than an official national database
Which is quite incredible really. Over here, an armed officer has to write a report for simply removing his or her pistol or taser from the holster. The holsters have seals on them. Once broken, the officer has some explaining to do.
Oh i agree it's too many. The problem comes from using the data we have to extrapolate. Is it indicative of racist white people using the badge as a cover to kill some black guys? How many unarmed white people are being killed? Is it a cop problem, a race problem or both? etc. I don't have all the solutions just rtying to provide a different context to the discussion since i'm pretty sure everybody agrees racism = bad, gun crime = bad, killing unarmed people = bad etc.
Completely agree. This is an issue relatively easily dealt with on the community level. It's hard to control every single cop on every single police force in the country though. Some shit will spill through the cracks but the systemic and structural changes can and should be highlighted.
Oh Id like to think the police do similar over there - but its crazy that the info is not then available (freedom of information act equivalent?) so it has to be compiled by news outlets / websites
The NRA has been fighting against data collecting in America for a long time. Add to that the power of police and jail unions/lobbyists and you get an ugly shitstorm that results in decisions like this :http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article88985782.html
I'm sure a Juventus fan is well aware what corruption means.
oh yeah I went there
on that point
this article does go on to show that the stats can be misleading - however 6 or 7 to one is a shocking stat and Im not sure I can think of a rational that can explain such an anomaly away
completely
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler#
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Edit... Im wrong
Apparently the USA does not have a clue and the washington post / guardian have as much data as they do
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...gton-post-better-information-police-shootings
On your first point quoting sun_tzu - I think most people should agree that it's a cop problem. Race problems occur because some people are racist or unintentionally prejudice, but I very much doubt that any police officer is out hunting for black/brown/yellow people to kill.
Identifying it as a cop problem doesn't mean that you're suddenly anti-cop either. Groups like BLM have come about because of recent incidents that happened to specifically black people, but again these aren't new, and they aren't brought about to make black people seem more important than everyone else or they hate cops.
When you use statistics and find out that actually more white people are killed by cops than black people, it doesn't negate the purpose of BLM, but actually reinforces the idea that police brutality is a problem that needs to be tackled, no matter the race of the victim. It should actually anger white people too, it should anger the All Lives Matter crowd also.
It's far too easy to deny that it happens, or it will never happen to you, or the person who it happened to deserved it because they weren't a perfect citizen, or dehumanise the loss of their loved ones and the community it affects.
I agree with what you're saying buddy. It's easy to not emphathize either with the families of the innocent victims or even with the highly stressful jobs the police do. We could all be a little more calm and understanding. I'm not sure the bolded part is true for most of the commentary i've read on the issue. I'd say the race of the the victim or cop plays a big part in the narrative ( how many black cop shoots unarmed white guy stories have been hashtagged). I think like you said making it a cop issue and solving that helps people of all colors. Getting into racism clouds the issue a bit and makes it harder to get to the solution. Not saying racism is not a factor but it's definitely not the main one imo.
With a history like this in Tulsa? Just under a hundred years ago they rampaged and slaughtered nearly 300 African Americans in what was once the wealthiest African American community in the US. Of course . . . "The Tulsa race riot of 1921 was rarely mentioned in history books."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot
Thanks for that, this is the first I'm hearing about it.
Probably 99.99999% of America have never heard of it. Make of that what you will.
Aye, we have a fine history of racism. When I was in school, you couldn't be caught alone in the hallway with people of a different color. One time I was and got bruised so bad it seemed to last for months. It helped start a miniature sized race riot in the lot, all the black kids on one side and all the rest on the other. Got somewhat violent eventually.
Seems unreal now to think back on it...
Only if you narrowly define racism as a white person pointing to a black person and saying, "hey monkey, I hate you. I'm gonna lynch you!". Even within that narrow framework, as late as 50 years ago, police forces were openly and proudly racist, enforcing segregation laws, and turning their backs on lynching and other targeted attacks on black folk. As late as 20 years ago the O.J. Simpson trial uncovered a systemic terrorizing of the Los Angeles black community by the L.A.P.D., who threw epithets casually and planted evidence and beat the living shit out of suspects. Pretending as if all that just magically disappeared in 20 years is naive, at best. From there, other options are varying levels of insults honestly.
And that ignores the fact that racism is not just targeted individual attacks on someone who may be of a different color, and defining it as such makes the vast majority of people who are complicit in a broken system pat themselves on the back for not calling their black friend (cause we all know they have one or two of them) the n-word.
Yeah in isolation, a cop shooting an unarmed motorist may not come down to racism. The cop may have been trained improperly. Prevalence of guns in the US may have him on edge. Looking at the numbers though, after normalizing for wealth, class, education, age... black people and other people of color are targeted, profiled, threatened and killed more than others. That is racism. Which is why there is an outcry everytime an incident like this happens, even if the victim may have not been "perfect".
We elected Barack Obama. Racism is dead and black people should stop moaning and get on with it.
Right?
Right?
Yes, and the fecking BLM movement is the real the racial problem in the US; not the Republican Party, not Trump nation, not Talk Radio, not Fox News, and especially not the hundreds of white supremacist and militia and oath keepers and southern pride and hard right christian organisations.
I'll take your word for it though i would like a dm with a link to that study if you don't mind. Also after normalizing for wealth, class,education and age do all races commit crimes at the exact same rate? Even if what you say is 100% accurate it doesn't prove racism in every case. What if a black cop did the shooting? And I don't doubt racism exists and permeates various parts of american life. I am aware you can't just remove it from the equation completely. If the policing issue is fixed doesn't the number of unarmed people getting killed decrease significantly? That to me is the best way to fix the problem of cops killing people unnecessarily.
Of course not but race relations are at their best point ever in recorded human history. Progress has been made and I'm very optimistic about future generations moving beyond skin color and race. It's irresponsible in my opinion for a lot of people to completely ignore that a lot of progress has been made in a very short amount of time and that we are on course for things to get better. In the same way it would be irresponsible to focus on each individual case completely divorced from the history and backdrop of racism that still exists.
Just to add on to what @Nobby style & @adexkola said about how recent the turmoil between particularly black people and the police are, here's a video from Selma in 1965
Assuming that boy isn't more than 25 years old (he looks closer to 18 to me, but black don't crack etc) it's more than reasonable that he's alive, and these are the kind of interactions with police that he and the other people in the crowd would have had.
51 years ago. I'd assume most people's parents are older than that, hell some are probably closer to that age on here.
These are the kind of incidents that forms divides, because I bet that same police officer wouldn't speak that way to a white boy of the same age who still calls him sir and speaks in a calm and clear tone quoting the bible.
Assuming that boy isn't more than 25 years old (he looks closer to 18 to me, but black don't crack etc) it's more than reasonable that he's alive, and these are the kind of interactions with police that he and the other people in the crowd would have had.
51 years ago. I'd assume most people's parents are older than that, hell some are probably closer to that age on here.
These are the kind of incidents that forms divides, because I bet that same police officer wouldn't speak that way to a white boy of the same age who still calls him sir and speaks in a calm and clear tone quoting the bible.
Aren't we living in one of the most peaceful periods in human history overall? I was thinking of the book that expounded upon it, 'The Better Angels of our Nature.'
I think we have yet to come to grips with the change in news coverage that the Information Age brought.
Yes I've read that book. Steven Pinker is great. I highly recommend How the mind works, Blank Slate and the stuff of thought if you haven't already read them.
I completely agree with your point about the media especially the 24/7 news cycle on tv and now the social media headline / condense your thoughts into 150 characters kinda media. We are completely bombarded by input and it can be so easy to give in to confirmation bias and tribal thinking. A skill kids really need to develop is the weeding out of untrustworthy information. Right now if you believe in flat earth or young earth creationist or whatever other kooky shit , you can find arguments and people online that will validate you and you could feel safe and protected in that bubble. A bit off topic but in my opinion a great example of thinking along tribal lines is the whole brothers in blue/ blue wall of silence/ cop bro code. The fact that even the most outrageous killing can result in a demotion or sometimes not even that just completely erodes public trust in the system and is also worse for the good cops in the long run.
Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/u...e-use-of-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks.html
As for your second question, forget about stats. Consider this: Until recently, if I was convicted of having 5 grams of crack cocaine, I get a 5 year prison sentence, mandatory. If I was convicted of having 500 grams of powder cocaine, I get a 5 year prison sentence, mandatory. Crack cocaine is used more by poor blacks and hispanics. Powder cocaine is used more by rich white socialites and models. Crack and powder cocaine are the same product chemically. However I need 100 times as much powder to get the same sentence I would get if I had a certain amount of crack. So even if people committed crimes at the same rate, then you would expect prison populations to have many more black and hispanic people. And that is literally what happened.
I accept that many cops wake up with the best of intentions. We have 2 police officers on here and I'm sure they mean well and are professional in their interactions with civilians. But implicit bias officers of any race may have that influences their interactions with black civilians disproportionately also counts as racism, which is why the ire remains when a black person is killed by a black cop for example.
One can walk and chew gum simultaneously. I think it is possible to fix the policing issue and fix or mitigate the racism issue.
http://policingequity.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/CPE_SoJ_Race-Arrests-UoF_2016-07-08-1130.pdf
If this is the report in question then i'm sorry but it doesn't do what you claim at all. It pretty much only differentiates in terms of race.
I agree with the second paragraph. That's a great example of structural racism and definitely adds to the problems civilians and police face. I also agree that both problems can and should be fixed, my point was to attempt to do both at the same time muddies the waters. Lets set achievable targets like increase training or increase accountability or change racist laws. To attempt to fix the racism issue is such broad and difficult goal that i feel that energy is better directed elsewhere.
What a brave young man. It took real balls to stand up back then against seemingly unsurmountable odds.
He was so calm. I hope he went on to have a wonderful life. That police officer on the other hand was desperate for a reason.
16 years old!
This cop is fecked, rightly so:
Newly released footage has shed a troubling new light on a 2011 police shooting in St. Louis, showing an officer gun down a black suspect and then planting a gun on the crime scene.
Officer Jason Stockley and his partner Brian Bianchi had engaged drug suspect Anthony Lamar Smith in a high speed chase. Stockley can be heard saying “I’m going to kill this motherfecker.”
The police rammed Smith off the road, and camera footage shows Stockley shooting five shots into the driver’s seat of Smith’s disabled car.
New footage now reveals Stockley taking a gun out of a duffel back from the back of his own cruiser and planting it on Smith’s body. Stockley claimed in his report that Smith had pointed the weapon at him, justifying the use of lethal force.
Subsequent DNA evidence on the gun, however, did not contain any DNA or fingerprints from Smith.
Stockley will be tried for first degree murder. One of his initial hearings takes place on Oct. 3rd.
Footage of the killing can be found here:
http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/7492/
Newly released footage has shed a troubling new light on a 2011 police shooting in St. Louis, showing an officer gun down a black suspect and then planting a gun on the crime scene.
Officer Jason Stockley and his partner Brian Bianchi had engaged drug suspect Anthony Lamar Smith in a high speed chase. Stockley can be heard saying “I’m going to kill this motherfecker.”
The police rammed Smith off the road, and camera footage shows Stockley shooting five shots into the driver’s seat of Smith’s disabled car.
New footage now reveals Stockley taking a gun out of a duffel back from the back of his own cruiser and planting it on Smith’s body. Stockley claimed in his report that Smith had pointed the weapon at him, justifying the use of lethal force.
Subsequent DNA evidence on the gun, however, did not contain any DNA or fingerprints from Smith.
Stockley will be tried for first degree murder. One of his initial hearings takes place on Oct. 3rd.
Footage of the killing can be found here:
http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/7492/
Boy, he's gonna have a great time in prison.
I'd be surprised if he's convicted.