Cop in America doing a bad job, again

Eboue said:
jesus. every one of those motherfeckers should be in jail
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Can’t wait to see what the police justification will be for this. They couldn’t possibly use any type of ‘in fear’ defense, their response isn’t at all proportionate to the situation at hand. I guess the verbiage and tone of the guy on the phone was that bad? I would love to hear what was said or get a copy of the dialogue.

Absolutely nothing justifies the physical response by those feckers seeing as how the victim was not a threat in any way.
 
Eboue said:


21st century gestapo
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44378201

The beeb story gave more background. Maybe he should have stayed away from military & cops.

"Fort Hamilton spokeswoman Cathy SantoPietro said in a statement that Mr Villavicencio had arrived at last Friday to "make a delivery without valid Department of Defense identification".

"Upon signing a waiver permitting a background check, Department of the Army Access Control standard for all visitors, an active Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) warrant was discovered on file" and he was arrested. A spokesperson told US media that he had failed to comply with a 2010 deportation order and was considered a fugitive."
 
utdalltheway said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44378201

The beeb story gave more background. Maybe he should have stayed away from military & cops.

"Fort Hamilton spokeswoman Cathy SantoPietro said in a statement that Mr Villavicencio had arrived at last Friday to "make a delivery without valid Department of Defense identification".

"Upon signing a waiver permitting a background check, Department of the Army Access Control standard for all visitors, an active Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) warrant was discovered on file" and he was arrested. A spokesperson told US media that he had failed to comply with a 2010 deportation order and was considered a fugitive."
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Hes a delivery guy and he was doing his job. Maybe service employees should be able to refuse to serve police and military.
 
calodo2003 said:
Can’t wait to see what the police justification will be for this. They couldn’t possibly use any type of ‘in fear’ defense, their response isn’t at all proportionate to the situation at hand. I guess the verbiage and tone of the guy on the phone was that bad? I would love to hear what was said or get a copy of the dialogue.

Absolutely nothing justifies the physical response by those feckers seeing as how the victim was not a threat in any way.
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Disrepecting them. They won't say that though, it'll be couched in some other code words/language but that's what it looked like to me. They like being the big men and every one should bow down to them.
 
Utdfrom2002 said:
What's wrong with that? Didn't you know cops are allowed to use physical force? Go read the police procedure manual please. The cops were just doing their jobs and did nothing wrong other than apply too much force. The rules of the building probably state that squatting in the corridor is not allowed. Just to be sure, better reference local news reports and apartment laws too.
Also, the cheek of him talking on the phone and being disrespectful to the cops while they were giving out instructions.
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Sarcasm?
 
Ekkie Thump said:
The longer video is unfortunately even worse. Once they've brutally attacked him, handuffed him and forced him to lay on his stomach they laugh and joke before taking his shoes off, binding his legs together and taking turns to kneel on the small of his back. They then drag him to his knees and feet, slam his head into the lift door, drag him back to the ground, kneel on him again, bind his legs even tighter, press his head into the ground and eventually wrap some sort of material round his face before carrying him off.

They're torturing him.

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Wtf, hope he at least gets some serious dough outta this. And the fat cop throwing the punches needs to be thrown in jail.
 
Man of Leisure said:
Wtf, hope he at least gets some serious dough outta this. And the fat cop throwing the punches needs to be thrown in jail.
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The police fecker’s justification for his use of force was “Johnson’s (victim) body language was projecting he was preparing for a physical altercation.” Christ almighty, that is rich. Body language projection...

Follows with “Johnson’s ‘breathing’ also became ‘shallower’ ....”
 
Eboue said:
So do you think people should be deported for traffic stops too?
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Of course not.
I’ve lived in a community where most were illegal and the rule was always keep your nose clean or risk deportation.
This guy got a shitty break no doubt. All illegals will now be avoiding that base like the plague.
 
utdalltheway said:
Of course not.
I’ve lived in a community where most were illegal and the rule was always keep your nose clean or risk deportation.
This guy got a shitty break no doubt. All illegals will now be avoiding that base like the plague.
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It’s the same thing I tell people when they’re driving with no license or on a suspended license. You know you shouldn’t be driving, so maybe put your phone down and stop speeding and you won’t be getting pulled over. Again.

I tow a car or two. No deportations here though. Even the illegals my partner and I have arrested for other things, we explain to them that we aren’t notifying immigration, ICE etc.
 
KirkDuyt said:
If you honestly believe all cops are bad you're a moron to be honest. Cops are people, some people suck.
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They should be more forthcoming about their colleagues. Stop fecking covering for each other at all costs as it really doesn't help them dispel the myth. Literally everyone knows it's not all police that are bad, that's a red herring.
 
afrocentricity said:
They should be more forthcoming about their colleagues. Stop fecking covering for each other at all costs as it really doesn't help them dispel the myth. Literally everyone knows it's not all police that are bad, that's a red herring.
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I personally know plenty of people who actually state that they think all cops are bad. You vastly overrate humanity if you think everyone knows not all cops are bad.

You'd say literally everyone knows that not all immigrants are bad or not all Liverpool fans shag their sisters, yet here we are. All cops in this particular video are a bunch of twats and should be fired and put in jail, but saying all cops are bad doesn't help anyone. If anything it just increases the difficulty for actual good cops to do their job right. Same with people following cops around with video camera's being annoying until they snap and proceed to put it on social media.

Being a cop is a shite fecking job and even though cops like the ones in this video should be severely punished saying black and white things like all cops are bad are just polarizing the situation further.
 
KirkDuyt said:
If you honestly believe all cops are bad you're a moron to be honest. Cops are people, some people suck.
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I'm a moron then, but at least i'm not naive. The logic of the tweet you quoted holds true. How often do you see a officer (in any country) record the crimes of their fellow officers? Never... It always needs video or dozens of non police witnesses to get any accountability out of police forces.

There needs to be a huge cultural shift in policing ethics if the police want to regain the trust of those who have become aware of it.
 
Most decent people would probably not become cops or leave the force once they realise they function as a militarised occupation force instead of protectors of communities.
 
Blodssvik said:
Most decent people would probably not become cops or leave the force once they realise they function as a militarised occupation force instead of protectors of communities.
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I guess I'm lucky to live in a country where cops are relatively civil.
 
People say dumb shit, doesn't mean they believe it tho. It's just their way of getting their point across or expressing themselves. I bet money if you were to ask those people if they believed the generalisations they make they'd say obviously not. It's just a turn of phrase.

You could argue that speaking in generalisations and absolutes is an annoying hindrance (which I do all the fecking time on here!). But what can you do? This is how people tend to speak nowadays... Or maybe they always did and I'm noticing it now because in getting older and grumpier? Who knows?

Abizzz said:
How often do you see a officer (in any country) record the crimes of their fellow officers? Never... It always needs video or dozens of non police witnesses to get any accountability out of police forces.

There needs to be a huge cultural shift in policing ethics if the police want to regain the trust of those who have become aware of it.
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Exactly, way more important than pointing out that it's not all cops at every opportunity. Of course it isn't and everyone knows this.

The sentiment is a reaction to what we are seeing from the police so it's in their hands to change it by actually showing us that they are with us instead of showing us that they are mostly a close knit brotherhood that put themselves before the people etc...
 
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Just to clear things up, since it seems like people think I'm somehow advocating for covering up police misconduct. I'm obviously not. I just have a very big stick up my arse about speaking in absolutes like all X are Y. This type of reasoning, in any situation, is what's keeping humanity back. Racism, sexism, intollerance, religious intolerance, all world problems stem from these types of generalizations.

It's as if, becoming a cop, instantly makes you a power hungry, overly aggressive bastard. That's obviously a load of bollocks. Bad things happen in pretty much every part of our society; big banks, governments, you're local plummer ripping you off, it's people being cnuts. The problem with cops is that they wield a certain amount of power and with this power comes responsibility (uncle Ben, 1962). Abusing this power is much worse than a plumber abusing his power by charging you too much to fix your toilet.

This obviously means that there should be an impartial watchdog to monitor if the police are doing a good job and should penalize them for this type of horrible things, because ofcourse I agree that assaulting someone like in the video above is terrible. It does however, not mean that all cops that walk the street and sit behind their desk are out there to keep you down, treat you unfairly and beat up innocent people.

*Now I do have a slight reason for this meltdown; 3 of my uncles are cops and so are 2 of my best mates.

**To be fair, reading the posts I don't think I actually disagree on anything with any of you so, erm, yea :)
 
KirkDuyt said:
If you honestly believe all cops are bad you're a moron to be honest. Cops are people, some people suck.
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youve used that line before.

KirkDuyt said:
Cops are people and some people are cnuts. That's basically how it works. I don't think there's some institutional country wide master plan to keep the little man down with violence.
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has it occured to you that maybe your experiences in your country dont apply to other countries and maybe acting as if your experiences apply universally makes you a...moron?





KirkDuyt said:
as a white guy from a rather well off neighbourhood I have almost no experience with unfair treatment from cops
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good for you dude. perhaps this is a time to listen
 
Eboue said:
youve used that line before.




has it occured to you that maybe your experiences in your country dont apply to other countries and maybe acting as if your experiences apply universally makes you a...moron?

KirkDuyt said:
I guess I'm lucky to live in a country where cops are relatively civil.
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I explained myself further in a later post.

Also, I don't think there's any country where literally all cops are bastards and even then saying all cops are bastards means you come across as if you're implying that all cops in all countries are that way, so how does that not work both ways?

Also, also, I wasn't trying to call you a moron, it was a generalization. I'm not here to be a cnut. If I came across that way, my apologies.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I explained myself further in a later post.

Also, I don't think there's any country where literally all cops are bastards and even then saying all cops are bastards means you come across as if you're implying that all cops in all countries are that way, so how does that not work both ways?

Also, also, I wasn't trying to call you a moron, it was a generalization. I'm not here to be a cnut. If I came across that way, my apologies.
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You know that's not my twitter account right? I posted it because I thought it was an interesting point on the discussion going on. My opinion is that a large number of cops in this country are abusive and racist and an even bigger number cover for them and tolerate their abuses of citizens. Not every cop but a very large number.
 
Eboue said:
You know that's not my twitter account right? I posted it because I thought it was an interesting point on the discussion going on. My opinion is that a large number of cops in this country are abusive and racist and an even bigger number cover for them and tolerate their abuses of citizens. Not every cop but a very large number.
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I know it's not, but I thought maybe it came across that way.

As I explained above, I took offense, because there are some cops in my family who deal with people that are convinced all cops are bastards on a regular basis. That there's a systemic problem within the US police (or US in general) with abuse and racism is not something I'm denying, doubly so, because I've never set foot there myself. I'm simply saying that assuming the worst by generalization is bad in any situation. And perhaps I'm naive, but I'm sure even in the US of A there's a good amount of cops that have the public's best interest at heart.

Perhaps you're right and I'm a naive moron though, I'm not above admitting that.
 
KirkDuyt said:
If you honestly believe all cops are bad you're a moron to be honest. Cops are people, some people suck.
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The moron bit aside, its a valid argument to make. Cops themselves aren't bad, but they are plunged into a lose/lose situation of having to keep the peace in a country that is saturated with 300m firearms; where the very act of interacting with the public is perceived as a life and death security dilemma. We as a society expect these people to behave with a degree of civility but at the same time create the societal conditions whereby cops feel the need to to self-militarize as if they are operating in third world police state. This wont end by prosecuting one off cases like some shown in this thread since the environmental conditions that enable this sort of behavior would still be in place.
 
Raoul said:
the very act of interacting with the public is perceived as a life and death security dilemma
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its not a life and death dilemma. police and the people who make excuses for them act like it is a uniquely dangerous job that we must give special dispensation to but the truth is that its not that dangerous
 
Top 10 deadliest jobs:

1. Logging workers: 128.8 (deaths per 100.000)
2. Fishers and related fishing workers: 117
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers: 53.4
4. Roofers: 40.5
5. Structural iron and steel workers: 37
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors: 27.1
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers: 23
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers: 22.1
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers: 21.3
10. Construction laborers: 17.4

Cops rank quite a bit below that with 12.6.

Most dangerous by far is being president btw, with 8 out of 44 dying in office.

Guess there's still hope..
 
Eboue said:
its not a life and death dilemma. police and the people who make excuses for them act like it is a uniquely dangerous job that we must give special dispensation to but the truth is that its not that dangerous
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Cops operating in a highly armed society are operating in a daily security dilemma that changes their mindset. You can't expect someone to do a stable job when they themselves fear for their lives in a daily basis. That's different from most other developed countries where guns (for example) are not a relevant factor in every day law enforcement.
 
KirkDuyt said:
I know it's not, but I thought maybe it came across that way.

As I explained above, I took offense, because there are some cops in my family who deal with people that are convinced all cops are bastards on a regular basis. That there's a systemic problem within the US police (or US in general) with abuse and racism is not something I'm denying, doubly so, because I've never set foot there myself. I'm simply saying that assuming the worst by generalization is bad in any situation. And perhaps I'm naive, but I'm sure even in the US of A there's a good amount of cops that have the public's best interest at heart.

Perhaps you're right and I'm a naive moron though, I'm not above admitting that.
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You would be right in distinguishing that there is a systemic problem in the US. That alone tells us that cops themselves aren't the problem - its a broader issue of living in a heavily armed society that makes cops behave like they are working in a security dilemma. If you remove the weaponized climate of American society off the table, you would see far less situations where participants lose the plot on daily interactions with one another.
 
TheReligion said:
Does it have to be rated out of life/death though?

What's the figures for assaults?
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That's Raoul's point I think. Cops are under a lot of stress. While the actual amount of cops getting killed is relatively low, there's still the constant thread of a suspect being armed, especially in a country where it's legal to have carry a gun. Aside from that you can get assaulted or faced with difficult decisions where there's a lot at stake.

Hell, I get stressed when my boss yells at me, can't imagine how stressed I'd be if someone tried to beat me up. That's why a lot of people can't handle the job of a police officer, which I think results in people that can't handle the job, but do it anyway tend to become cnuts. The job turns them into who they are, not the other way around.

imo.
 
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