Cop in America doing a bad job, again

But why does he need to shoot him several times? Just shoot him once in the leg or somewhere non-lethal.
Unfortunately unlike TV not all police officers are expert marksmen even at close range. In theory the only time they should be firing their weapon is when lethal force is necessary and if that is the case then you fire several times to make sure your target is taken out. The thought process is that since you should in theory only be shooting in situations where you or a member of the public is in imminent danger a wounded suspect is still a danger. Or what if your first shot misses?

In this case the issue is not how many shots were fired but whether they were necessary and I think they were not. Cop should be charged , convicted and jailed.
 
Last edited:
But why does he need to shoot him several times? Just shoot him once in the leg or somewhere non-lethal.

Objective is lethal force. Cops don’t take chances. The system they work in is wrong. But when everyone may have a gun, it’s understandable.
 
Someone points a gun directly at you and tells you they're going to shoot you unless you do x, y and z, generally people become very compliant. I've been there and managed to follow instructions, that I didn't understand as my understanding of Arabic is minimal.
Sorry, but how you react is irrelevant. While it's cool that you managed to stay calm, but not everyone does. Panicking, being scared or even just nervous often cause people to make mistakes, or renders them unable to properly follow instructions. It's got nothing to do with compliance. You could be the most compliant person in the world, but if you're nervous or scared, odds are you'll make a mistake. Such a mistake should not be punishable by death.
Why didn't he cuff him near the room, as they were responding to reports of a person aiming a rifle out of a window, so no cop is going to go near that door way to cuff someone and have their back to an open doorway. Let's not forget it's not that long ago a mass murder occurred, someone shooting out of a hotel window.
Yet they had no problem walking up to the death door after murdering the dude. And this happened a year and a half before the Vegas shooting. Somehow I don't think that entered into the equation.
Yes officer was sacked and is a dick, but he's rightly cleared in my book, look at the footage, appreciate that hand going back towards his pocket and that they were dealing with reports of an armed person. Just because someone is visibly crying, does not mean they won't shoot you given the chance. That hand to me looks like it's going for the pocket, not to pull his pants up. They get a split second to make those calls.
Seen in isolation, shooting someone who reaches for the waistline or a pocket in a situation like that is understandable. Thing is, it should never have gotten to that point. The sheer incompetence of the officers involved should have, at the very least, seen them done for manslaughter. There were at least three of them (I'm pretty sure there was four, but let's say three). Why did they need him to come to them? There were enough of them to approach him in a safe manner. Tell the suspect to lie flat on his stomach, arms and legs spread wide. While he's in that position, have one officer approach the suspect to cuff him, while one covers the suspect and another covers the scary door of death. That's how we learned to do it in the military, and I'd like to think a police officer would be better at apprehending suspects than a soldier.
 
Sorry, but how you react is irrelevant. While it's cool that you managed to stay calm, but not everyone does. Panicking, being scared or even just nervous often cause people to make mistakes, or renders them unable to properly follow instructions. It's got nothing to do with compliance. You could be the most compliant person in the world, but if you're nervous or scared, odds are you'll make a mistake. Such a mistake should not be punishable by death.

Yet they had no problem walking up to the death door after murdering the dude. And this happened a year and a half before the Vegas shooting. Somehow I don't think that entered into the equation.

Seen in isolation, shooting someone who reaches for the waistline or a pocket in a situation like that is understandable. Thing is, it should never have gotten to that point. The sheer incompetence of the officers involved should have, at the very least, seen them done for manslaughter. There were at least three of them (I'm pretty sure there was four, but let's say three). Why did they need him to come to them? There were enough of them to approach him in a safe manner. Tell the suspect to lie flat on his stomach, arms and legs spread wide. While he's in that position, have one officer approach the suspect to cuff him, while one covers the suspect and another covers the scary door of death. That's how we learned to do it in the military, and I'd like to think a police officer would be better at apprehending suspects than a soldier.

No, unfortunately. Military standards are much more stringent.
 
Military is far more stringent and those that often engage/find themselves in combat/threat situations routinely train for those types of environments and settings. There are strict LOAC rules that must be followed granted split second decisions in the battlefield happen where loss of life is highly probable.

Were these cops part of a swat unit or some kind of special tactics? The cnut that fired the fatal shots had a semiautomatic rifle. Da'fuq.
 
That's how we learned to do it in the military, and I'd like to think a police officer would be better at apprehending suspects than a soldier.
No chance. You guys in the military are trained insanely hard, waking up before dawn and doing everything by protocol and placing heavy emphasis on chain of command. Police officers go to an academy for a few months and then let loose on civilians.

The majority of the world's countries prefer their military over their police.
 
Someone points a gun directly at you and tells you they're going to shoot you unless you do x, y and z, generally people become very compliant. I've been there and managed to follow instructions, that I didn't understand as my understanding of Arabic is minimal.

Why didn't he cuff him near the room, as they were responding to reports of a person aiming a rifle out of a window, so no cop is going to go near that door way to cuff someone and have their back to an open doorway. Let's not forget it's not that long ago a mass murder occurred, someone shooting out of a hotel window.

Yes officer was sacked and is a dick, but he's rightly cleared in my book, look at the footage, appreciate that hand going back towards his pocket and that they were dealing with reports of an armed person. Just because someone is visibly crying, does not mean they won't shoot you given the chance. That hand to me looks like it's going for the pocket, not to pull his pants up. They get a split second to make those calls.

Oh feck off....this was an execution....the guy had a few drinks in him....hes scared shitless....yea he was warned about moving his hand down to his shorts but he was reaching down to pull up his basketball trunks up....how many officers were there? Why didn't they cuff after he came out of the room and while he was on the ground??...whats with all the commands?? Telling the guy to crawl? Absolute bullshit....fecking officer had "Youre fecked" etched on his AR-15....which was inadmissable in court....his father is former IA Investigator for the that same dept. and met with all involved about an hour after the shooting...when those officers who all by the way called it a good shooting, were asked what the meeting was about, they all convenintly forgot. I support the police to the fullest...there are bad eggs out there and some shootings I agree with, others I dont...this whole thing was a fecking mess to begin with...it was murder plain and simple. Its disgusting how far cops will go to protect themselves.
 
The Daniel Shaver video is going to mess with me for a while. The cop sounded fecking aroused by his faux-power.

The worst part was that there was nothing he could do to prevent the shooting. The instructions were contradictory and he was not being allowed to speak- then he was shot because he stumbled as his pants fell down due to crawling as the cop asked. Kafkaesque.

Fecking this. The way they handled that situation was fecking unbelievable. Why would they need him to crawl towards them? They were at least two police, they could have just walked over and cuffed him
 
Objective is lethal force. Cops don’t take chances. The system they work in is wrong. But when everyone may have a gun, it’s understandable.
Ah yes, they are always in fear of their lives so I hear. 99% of the interactions police officers have in public there is no gun involved. In fact the mantra of "everyone may have a gun or the next interaction you have may be you're last" is bullshit. It's instigated by one guy that went around the country training police to treat everyone like a dangerous armed criminal. Lethal force should only ever be used if the person is shooting at police. Nearly all of these murders we see at the hands of police don't involve a gun, they are unarmed and gunned down usually by a psycho cop. Even if they had a knife it would be so easy for the police to handle that situation. They do it in multiple countries everyday without injury.
I would like to see the police disarmed for a year and I reckon you would not see an increase in crime or police deaths, just less innocent people or non violent criminals gunned down. A lot of dogs would still be alive also.
 
Ah yes, they are always in fear of their lives so I hear. 99% of the interactions police officers have in public there is no gun involved. In fact the mantra of "everyone may have a gun or the next interaction you have may be you're last" is bullshit. It's instigated by one guy that went around the country training police to treat everyone like a dangerous armed criminal. Lethal force should only ever be used if the person is shooting at police. Nearly all of these murders we see at the hands of police don't involve a gun, they are unarmed and gunned down usually by a psycho cop. Even if they had a knife it would be so easy for the police to handle that situation. They do it in multiple countries everyday without injury.
I would like to see the police disarmed for a year and I reckon you would not see an increase in crime or police deaths
, just less innocent people or non violent criminals gunned down. A lot of dogs would still be alive also.

So wait until someone kills you before shooting back? Yeah that sounds awesome.

Pretty sure they undergo assessments to make sure they're not mentally impaired.

People are using cars to great effect in Europe, I'm pretty sure that there's an armed response required to deal with that. Even had blokes stab police officers in England, so maybe it's not so easy to take out someone who's intent on doing harm to someone.

You can't have a police force to deal with a population that have masses of guns, simply as the police turn up to a crime and get shot.

You've a very simple view of the issue. Taking guns off the police won't solve anything, it'll simply give criminals a huge advantage over the police. The culture of the police force and the society which they operate in is fecked and no one seems to have the right solution.
 
Ah yes, they are always in fear of their lives so I hear. 99% of the interactions police officers have in public there is no gun involved. In fact the mantra of "everyone may have a gun or the next interaction you have may be you're last" is bullshit. It's instigated by one guy that went around the country training police to treat everyone like a dangerous armed criminal. Lethal force should only ever be used if the person is shooting at police. Nearly all of these murders we see at the hands of police don't involve a gun, they are unarmed and gunned down usually by a psycho cop. Even if they had a knife it would be so easy for the police to handle that situation. They do it in multiple countries everyday without injury.
I would like to see the police disarmed for a year and I reckon you would not see an increase in crime or police deaths, just less innocent people or non violent criminals gunned down. A lot of dogs would still be alive also.
Wow, wrong on pretty much every point. Good job
 
So wait until someone kills you before shooting back? Yeah that sounds awesome.

It's not 'shooting back' when they don't even have a fecking gun. Yes part of being police is suppose to be that you are agreeing to put your safety on the line to protect society.

People are using cars to great effect in Europe, I'm pretty sure that there's an armed response required to deal with that. Even had blokes stab police officers in England, so maybe it's not so easy to take out someone who's intent on doing harm to someone.

This is complete bollocks. People are using cars? I assume you mean the handful of terrorist attacks? Yes in Europe there is armed response, and in many euro countries the police are armed all the time, yet strangely they don't go around fecking murdering people on a weekly basis.

As for UK cops, you're talking out of your arse. Here's a list of those killed directly in the line of duty..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

In a country of over 65 million people, 2012 was a terrible year because 4 police were killed. In the 5 years since there have been 3 more. Last year the US with its 5 times bigger population had 135 police killed just in 2016 alone.

The culture of the police force and the society which they operate in is fecked and no one seems to have the right solution.

Teach your police to de-escalate situations instead of acting like fecking rambo when they go into each stop. They can be cautious and still be polite and not order civilians around like dogs. That's what ends up getting police killed, everyone fecking hates any interactions they have to have with them. Even if a police has their weapon drawn, they can still speak calmly and politely and request people do what they want instead of barking commands at them like a bad marine movie.

That last line of yours by the way is so goddamn typical of America. Countless other countries have different and more successful methods for dealing with problems, but instead of actually listening to them and learning from them, America always has to be special and unique. Some American cops have actually gone to train in the UK and come back blown away by the difference in approach and the effectiveness.
 
It's not 'shooting back' when they don't even have a fecking gun. Yes part of being police is suppose to be that you are agreeing to put your safety on the line to protect society.



This is complete bollocks. People are using cars? I assume you mean the handful of terrorist attacks? Yes in Europe there is armed response, and in many euro countries the police are armed all the time, yet strangely they don't go around fecking murdering people on a weekly basis.

As for UK cops, you're talking out of your arse. Here's a list of those killed directly in the line of duty..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

In a country of over 65 million people, 2012 was a terrible year because 4 police were killed. In the 5 years since there have been 3 more. Last year the US with its 5 times bigger population had 135 police killed just in 2016 alone.



Teach your police to de-escalate situations instead of acting like fecking rambo when they go into each stop. They can be cautious and still be polite and not order civilians around like dogs. That's what ends up getting police killed, everyone fecking hates any interactions they have to have with them. Even if a police has their weapon drawn, they can still speak calmly and politely and request people do what they want instead of barking commands at them like a bad marine movie.

That last line of yours by the way is so goddamn typical of America. Countless other countries have different and more successful methods for dealing with problems, but instead of actually listening to them and learning from them, America always has to be special and unique. Some American cops have actually gone to train in the UK and come back blown away by the difference in approach and the effectiveness.
Good post. You do get the impression that Americans prefer to do things their own way whether it's better or worse than the alternatives...

Actively trying to de-escalate a situation to avoid loss of life is common sense for most... But over there they usually default to shooting (take no chances), and that's ignoring the examples of the police being the ones to escalate the situations in the first place.
 
So wait until someone kills you before shooting back? Yeah that sounds awesome.

Pretty sure they undergo assessments to make sure they're not mentally impaired.

People are using cars to great effect in Europe, I'm pretty sure that there's an armed response required to deal with that. Even had blokes stab police officers in England, so maybe it's not so easy to take out someone who's intent on doing harm to someone.

You can't have a police force to deal with a population that have masses of guns, simply as the police turn up to a crime and get shot.

You've a very simple view of the issue. Taking guns off the police won't solve anything, it'll simply give criminals a huge advantage over the police. The culture of the police force and the society which they operate in is fecked and no one seems to have the right solution.

Such a passive-aggressive American response, it’s almost textbook :lol: sad you aren’t. Still, „People here are idiots, so the police has to be idiots as well. Also, you have pesky brown people in your country!“
 
Last edited:
How many police officers are shot at each year?
I'm curious to know.
 
So wait until someone kills you before shooting back? Yeah that sounds awesome.

Pretty sure they undergo assessments to make sure they're not mentally impaired.

People are using cars to great effect in Europe, I'm pretty sure that there's an armed response required to deal with that. Even had blokes stab police officers in England, so maybe it's not so easy to take out someone who's intent on doing harm to someone.

You can't have a police force to deal with a population that have masses of guns, simply as the police turn up to a crime and get shot.

You've a very simple view of the issue. Taking guns off the police won't solve anything, it'll simply give criminals a huge advantage over the police. The culture of the police force and the society which they operate in is fecked and no one seems to have the right solution.
That's what I'm saying, the population doesn't have masses of guns. To have a police force that operates under the illusion that everyone is out to kill them is more dangerous to the public then it is to the police. Plus it's not a simple view, it's my observation and experience from dealing with police and discussing this issue in my city. America is such a different place from state to state that you are right, there is no easy solution.
 
It's not 'shooting back' when they don't even have a fecking gun. Yes part of being police is suppose to be that you are agreeing to put your safety on the line to protect society.



This is complete bollocks. People are using cars? I assume you mean the handful of terrorist attacks? Yes in Europe there is armed response, and in many euro countries the police are armed all the time, yet strangely they don't go around fecking murdering people on a weekly basis.

As for UK cops, you're talking out of your arse. Here's a list of those killed directly in the line of duty..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

In a country of over 65 million people, 2012 was a terrible year because 4 police were killed. In the 5 years since there have been 3 more. Last year the US with its 5 times bigger population had 135 police killed just in 2016 alone.



Teach your police to de-escalate situations instead of acting like fecking rambo when they go into each stop. They can be cautious and still be polite and not order civilians around like dogs. That's what ends up getting police killed, everyone fecking hates any interactions they have to have with them. Even if a police has their weapon drawn, they can still speak calmly and politely and request people do what they want instead of barking commands at them like a bad marine movie.

That last line of yours by the way is so goddamn typical of America. Countless other countries have different and more successful methods for dealing with problems, but instead of actually listening to them and learning from them, America always has to be special and unique. Some American cops have actually gone to train in the UK and come back blown away by the difference in approach and the effectiveness.
Thank you, very sensible response to some idiotic assumption.
 
Such a passive-aggressive American response, it’s almost textbook :lol: sad you aren’t. Still, „People here are idiots, so the police has to be idiots as well. Also, you have pesky brown people in your country!“

I'm English mate and I live in Australia. Feck knows where you're going with that response, are you on something?
 
It's not 'shooting back' when they don't even have a fecking gun. Yes part of being police is suppose to be that you are agreeing to put your safety on the line to protect society.



This is complete bollocks. People are using cars? I assume you mean the handful of terrorist attacks? Yes in Europe there is armed response, and in many euro countries the police are armed all the time, yet strangely they don't go around fecking murdering people on a weekly basis.

As for UK cops, you're talking out of your arse. Here's a list of those killed directly in the line of duty..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_police_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty

In a country of over 65 million people, 2012 was a terrible year because 4 police were killed. In the 5 years since there have been 3 more. Last year the US with its 5 times bigger population had 135 police killed just in 2016 alone.



Teach your police to de-escalate situations instead of acting like fecking rambo when they go into each stop. They can be cautious and still be polite and not order civilians around like dogs. That's what ends up getting police killed, everyone fecking hates any interactions they have to have with them. Even if a police has their weapon drawn, they can still speak calmly and politely and request people do what they want instead of barking commands at them like a bad marine movie.

That last line of yours by the way is so goddamn typical of America. Countless other countries have different and more successful methods for dealing with problems, but instead of actually listening to them and learning from them, America always has to be special and unique. Some American cops have actually gone to train in the UK and come back blown away by the difference in approach and the effectiveness.

Where do I start, reply to police can only shoot when being shot at, so you didn't read.

UK has way way fewer guns, no areas with a massive gun culture.

My police do de-escalate and do carry guns. Like I said the culture in the states is wrong.

Get a uk tacticle response team round your house, they're not polite, no idea where you get that idea from. Stating a lie to back up your argument is laughable.

Yes my last line is so god damn American, I might have to demand a US passport and citizenship next time I holiday there.
 
My police do de-escalate and do carry guns. Like I said the culture in the states is wrong.

Yeah, we thought you were American. Probably because you were standing up for the American police, not something you usually see from someone who lives in a more civilized country police wise.

Get a uk tacticle response team round your house, they're not polite, no idea where you get that idea from. Stating a lie to back up your argument is laughable.

A lie? I wasn't talking about UK tactical units who are usually only called if there's a serious threat to life, I was talking about the US cops who all carry fecking guns and who feel the need to draw them and point them at people who are unarmed or only carrying knifes. You may have missed the video in this thread. If you have a gun on someone, then shouting and barking orders when that person is no damn immediate threat to you anyway just escalates the situation and increases the chances of someone ending up dead.
 
Yeah, we thought you were American. Probably because you were standing up for the American police, not something you usually see from someone who lives in a more civilized country police wise.



A lie? I wasn't talking about UK tactical units who are usually only called if there's a serious threat to life, I was talking about the US cops who all carry fecking guns and who feel the need to draw them and point them at people who are unarmed or only carrying knifes. You may have missed the video in this thread. If you have a gun on someone, then shouting and barking orders when that person is no damn immediate threat to you anyway just escalates the situation and increases the chances of someone ending up dead.

I think you need to read back!
 

Didnt read the whole article but not surprised. I didn't realize until after i got on the job how prevalent lawsuits are. Everyone sues everyone to get that quick buck. Citizens suing officers, departments. Officers sue each other, supervisors, their department, the city.
 
Got to use the cuffs and leg restraints to make sure these dangerous wheelchair bound 93 year old women don't hurt anyone..

 
Got to use the cuffs and leg restraints to make sure these dangerous wheelchair bound 93 year old women don't hurt anyone..


Article actually explains why they cuffed her, they claim she was intentionally sliding out of the wheel chair to prevent then from removing her from the facility she living at. IF their claims are true then it was to do with concern for her safety.
 
Article actually explains why they cuffed her, they claim she was intentionally sliding out of the wheel chair to prevent then from removing her from the facility she living at. IF their claims are true then it was to do with concern for her safety.

Look at the photo of her arms. She has massive bruises because thats what happens when you handcuff a 93 year old woman. What next, shoot her in the head to protect her from a headache?

Incidentally that's a picture of her in court, not in the process of being removed from anywhere.
 
Look at the photo of her arms. She has massive bruises because thats what happens when you handcuff a 93 year old woman. What next, shoot her in the head to protect her from a headache?

Incidentally that's a picture of her in court, not in the process of being removed from anywhere.
yeah they are going to shoot her for headache prevention, don't be a drama queen.

You sure the picture is from court or from the TV interview? Usually you don't see TV microphones sitting on the table in court.

IF she is sliding herself out of her wheel chair then if they let her do it and she gets hurt, who gets the blame and sued? Who would be catching hell for her hurting herself in jail?

I mean yeah she never should have been in jail,her family should have come and taken her in once she was evicted. But IF she is doing things while in custody that could cause herself injury, they will restrain her.
 
Last edited: