Music Commercial Hip Hop Thread

Oga on top. said:
I keep forgetting that you are a female so it's perfectly fine by me that you like Drake, not that you needed some random guy on the Internets permission for that :lol:, I'm just saying he's moist (I've had to resurrect that word from my high school days solely to use it on Drake).
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That's curious to me, what's moist about the album?

sidenote: moist is a fantastic word
 
Gave my brother an impressive deadpan stare after he used the word moist recently. Terrible word out loud.
 
vi1lain said:
That's curious to me, what's moist about the album?

sidenote: moist is a fantastic word
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The Quentin Miller episode made me dislike him. His thieving of other rappers' beats/lyrics has annoyed me (We all know it, I don't need to be Funkmaster Flex to know that) this is without him even making that atrocity Hotline bling record. But shit, that's got over a Billion views on YouTube alone so it must be me with the problem :lol:. Also this whole post was kinda redundant because I can't stop listening to 'Passionfruit' and 'Portland' ffs. Portland my fave on the album. Couple of the United players are Drake stans no? Lingard definitely is hahah.
 
Oga on top. said:
The Quentin Miller episode made me dislike him. His thieving of other rappers' beats/lyrics has annoyed me (We all know it, I don't need to be Funkmaster Flex to know that) this is without him even making that atrocity Hotline bling record. But shit, that's got over a Billion views on YouTube alone so it must be me with the problem :lol:. Also this whole post was kinda redundant because I can't stop listening to 'Passionfruit' and 'Portland' ffs. Portland my fave on the album. Couple of the United players are Drake stans no? Lingard definitely is hahah.
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Think the album will grow on you and a lot of others as time goes on ;) Both are excellent songs.

The Quentin Miller episode I think has made him an easy(er) target. And with such allegations a lot of rumours and hot air has been thrown around about his alleged thieving, culture vulturing, ghostwriting etc.
He gets stick for being moist, being from Canada, Degrassi/Jimmy and more, now you add the ghostwriter allegations on top and it completes the 'Drake is a fraud/popstar/weak rapper' narrative. It's quite predictable really.

A lot of rappers have been accused of having ghostwriters - Kanye gets noted for having Rhymefest & Consequence, Nas was even accused of having Jay Electronica & Stic writing for him on Untitled. We could go on and on.
The issue is more prevalent now because you have social media, and countless people who think they know and understand how album listing & credits work, and throw around baseless accusations.

At the end of the day, ghostwriting happens - if that's enough to make you dislike a rapper, then chances are you probably didn't like the rapper that much to begin with, or you should probably begin to dislike a lot more rappers too.
 
vi1lain said:
Think the album will grow on you and a lot of others as time goes on ;) Both are excellent songs.

The Quentin Miller episode I think has made him an easy(er) target. And with such allegations a lot of rumours and hot air has been thrown around about his alleged thieving, culture vulturing, ghostwriting etc.
He gets stick for being moist, being from Canada, Degrassi/Jimmy and more, now you add the ghostwriter allegations on top and it completes the 'Drake is a fraud/popstar/weak rapper' narrative. It's quite predictable really.

A lot of rappers have been accused of having ghostwriters - Kanye gets noted for having Rhymefest & Consequence, Nas was even accused of having Jay Electronica & Stic writing for him on Untitled. We could go on and on.
The issue is more prevalent now because you have social media, and countless people who think they know and understand how album listing & credits work, and throw around baseless accusations.

At the end of the day, ghostwriting happens - if that's enough to make you dislike a rapper, then chances are you probably didn't like the rapper that much to begin with, or you should probably begin to dislike a lot more rappers too.
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I am a fan of Drake but, my problem with the ghostwriting with Drake is that Drake has said lines like "And people get behind and they fight for em' cause he won't let no other n*gg*s write for em", also "and I could use a writer just to balance out my flows but I never share my thoughts, this is all a n*gg* knows" and in that same verse "and I would be performing this as long as I'm alive so every word I utter will be mine" So in Drake's case it directly contradicts past lines. And anyone who follows Hip Hop at all knows about Dr. Dre using ghostwriters, late career Snoop using ghostwriters and someone like Kanye getting help from the likes of Rhymefest, Consequence, Lupe, Big Sean, Kid Cudi, Cyhi the Prynce, Vic Mensa, Chance the Rapper, etc. But in Kanye's case he has never billed himself as the best rapper. He has compared himself to Jesus, Steve Jobs, called himself the best artist, called himself the most impactful artist of his generation, etc but, has not really called himself the best rapper. Drake since the beginning has wanted to be known as the best rapper and you can not be considered the best rapper by committee.



 
Keeps It tidy said:
I am a fan of Drake but, my problem with the ghostwriting with Drake is that Drake has said lines like "And people get behind and they fight for em' cause he won't let no other n*gg*s write for em", also "and I could use a writer just to balance out my flows but I never share my thoughts, this is all a n*gg* knows" and in that same verse "and I would be performing this as long as I'm alive so every word I utter will be mine" So in Drake's case it directly contradicts past lines. And anyone who follows Hip Hop at all knows about Dr. Dre using ghostwriters, late career Snoop using ghostwriters and someone like Kanye getting help from the likes of Rhymefest, Consequence, Lupe, Big Sean, Kid Cudi, Cyhi the Prynce, Vic Mensa, Chance the Rapper, etc. But in Kanye's case he has never billed himself as the best rapper. He has compared himself to Jesus, Steve Jobs, called himself the best artist, called himself the most impactful artist of his generation, etc but, has not really called himself the best rapper. Drake since the beginning has wanted to be known as the best rapper and you can not be considered the best rapper by committee.
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I get what you're saying, but what rapper doesn't call themselves the best? Kodak Black calls himself the best rapper, does it hold much weight? Nope. Drake isn't gonna say on a track 'Yeah the kid is the 37th best to ever do it' come on.
Jay-Z called himself the greatest - yet he copies lines word-for-word from Biggie, but I guess because he calls it 'homage' he gets a pass?

Drake is one of raps biggest ever stars, the criteria for rap means that you don't have to be only lyrical, you don't have to be only a storyteller, or only a hit maker, or only a superstar/performer.

Like I said - if you have a problem with rappers having Ghostwriters, then you're going to have problems with a lot of rappers.
 
vi1lain said:
I get what you're saying, but what rapper doesn't call themselves the best? Kodak Black calls himself the best rapper, does it hold much weight? Nope. Drake isn't gonna say on a track 'Yeah the kid is the 37th best to ever do it' come on.
Jay-Z called himself the greatest - yet he copies lines word-for-word from Biggie, but I guess because he calls it 'homage' he gets a pass?

Drake is one of raps biggest ever stars, the criteria for rap means that you don't have to be only lyrical, you don't have to be only a storyteller, or only a hit maker, or only a superstar/performer.

Like I said - if you have a problem with rappers having Ghostwriters, then you're going to have problems with a lot of rappers.
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It was definitely paying homage since he was using lines from the most popular songs from one of Hip Hop's most popular artists ever. It is like getting mad at rappers referencing Rapper's Delight or La Di Da Di. And over the years a lot of rappers have used famous lines from Jay Z to pay homage to him. With Drake he has spent his whole career trying to portray his writing as a solo endeavor until it was exposed that why it is an issue. Heck his right hand man/main producer/main engineer Noah "40" Shebib years before the incident said rappers who do not write their own lyrics can not be respected. With Drake the issue is the hypocrisy of the whole thing. And you can tell it gets to Drake considering how hard he went after Meek and the fact that he is still dissing Meek every chance he gets even now.
 
I gave More Life a listen this morning.

First of all, Drake needs to decide where he is from, once and for all. Choose one of Memphis, Toronto, Jamaica, Brixton, Houston, Atlanta... the "more chunz for ya ear" tags got more annoying the more I heard them

This album (feck off Aubrey, it's an album) is great if you have bitches* that can twerk coming through to your house, and weed and alcohol on deck, and you're just trying to have a good time. You don't need any substance for those kind of nights, just a good beat and a good flow (Drake is really good at riding those etheral, mystical sounding beats that 40 creates).

Free Smoke has some good one-liners and it has a lot of replay value. Skepta Interlude, Portland and Sacrifices are all great, but it's telling that one of the songs does not have Drake on the track (Skepta did his thing), and he had the most boring verse on the other 2, being outshined by the GOATS that are Quavo, Travis Scott, 2 Chainz and Young Thug.

That's where the good ends. Drake offers nothing new on this. He still waffles on about his days when he didn't have nothing and women didn't give him any attention or pussy (he had it rough growing up middle class, see). He still has haters and fake friends 6 years on, you'd think he'd got rid of them by now, or maybe these are the same haters that people with no haters refer to in instagram captions of pictures of them holding bottles up in VIP while mean-mugging or looking non-chalant. He's tired of bumping into these people see, so he wants to move to Dubai (of all places) so he doesn't have to bump into them. His singing is decent, but what good is that when no emotion or depth is conveyed? All I get is this pseudo-angst about non-coherent issues in his life that I'm supposed to care about, and why should I care?

Can't take away his ability to put out no 1 records and make the bitches* dance, and that alone is enough to keep him as an A-list artist for a while. Nowadays he's a pop artist that jumps around looking for trends to ride. His lyrics have their moments but for the most part sound tired and stale. And he attaches too much importance to himself. I'm sure that Ja Rule and Nelly didn't hold themselves up as pacesetters; they just made catchy songs and had fun. As long as Drake stays in that lane then cool.

I'd go further and postulate how his shallow music mirrors this generation somewhat, but that thesis is still green. Need more data.

*used in a non-disrespectful way
 
adexkola said:
I gave More Life a listen this morning.

First of all, Drake needs to decide where he is from, once and for all. Choose one of Memphis, Toronto, Jamaica, Brixton, Houston, Atlanta... the "more chunz for ya ear" tags got more annoying the more I heard them

This album (feck off Aubrey, it's an album) is great if you have bitches* that can twerk coming through to your house, and weed and alcohol on deck, and you're just trying to have a good time. You don't need any substance for those kind of nights, just a good beat and a good flow (Drake is really good at riding those etheral, mystical sounding beats that 40 creates).

Free Smoke has some good one-liners and it has a lot of replay value. Skepta Interlude, Portland and Sacrifices are all great, but it's telling that one of the songs does not have Drake on the track (Skepta did his thing), and he had the most boring verse on the other 2, being outshined by the GOATS that are Quavo, Travis Scott, 2 Chainz and Young Thug.

That's where the good ends. Drake offers nothing new on this. He still waffles on about his days when he didn't have nothing and women didn't give him any attention or pussy (he had it rough growing up middle class, see). He still has haters and fake friends 6 years on, you'd think he'd got rid of them by now, or maybe these are the same haters that people with no haters refer to in instagram captions of pictures of them holding bottles up in VIP while mean-mugging or looking non-chalant. He's tired of bumping into these people see, so he wants to move to Dubai (of all places) so he doesn't have to bump into them. His singing is decent, but what good is that when no emotion or depth is conveyed? All I get is this pseudo-angst about non-coherent issues in his life that I'm supposed to care about, and why should I care?

Can't take away his ability to put out no 1 records and make the bitches* dance, and that alone is enough to keep him as an A-list artist for a while. Nowadays he's a pop artist that jumps around looking for trends to ride. His lyrics have their moments but for the most part sound tired and stale. And he attaches too much importance to himself. I'm sure that Ja Rule and Nelly didn't hold themselves up as pacesetters; they just made catchy songs and had fun. As long as Drake stays in that lane then cool.

I'd go further and postulate how his shallow music mirrors this generation somewhat, but that thesis is still green. Need more data.

*used in a non-disrespectful way
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I do agree with a lot of what you say here. I was underwhelmed by Views and a lot of More Life. I think he has ran his darkside of fame stuff to the ground. But, I always strongly disagree with people who try to write him off as just party music. If you are partying to a Drake album it is probably a pretty depressing party. On his albums there is usually only a few real "club bangers" or "party records". Especially since 40 seems to want to make everything as dark and depressing as possible. His big club hits tend to be songs he featured on ("Who Do You Love", "Pop That", "On One", "Money to Blow", etc). And for all the talks about him not valuing lyrics he still has a few songs each album that are just bars "Do Not Disturb" being the best example on here.

And it is unfair to compare him to Nelly or Ja Rule. Neither of them ever released a project as substantial as Take Care, Nothing Was the Same or even If You are Reading This it is Too Late.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
It was definitely paying homage since he was using lines from the most popular songs from one of Hip Hop's most popular artists ever. It is like getting mad at rappers referencing Rapper's Delight or La Di Da Di. And over the years a lot of rappers have used famous lines from Jay Z to pay homage to him. With Drake he has spent his whole career trying to portray his writing as a solo endeavor until it was exposed that why it is an issue. Heck his right hand man/main producer/main engineer Noah "40" Shebib years before the incident said rappers who do not write their own lyrics can not be respected. With Drake the issue is the hypocrisy of the whole thing. And you can tell it gets to Drake considering how hard he went after Meek and the fact that he is still dissing Meek every chance he gets even now.
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I can respect that, and agree to an extent.
My brother told me about ghostwriting in like 2001 so I've gotten over that shock and now I accept that most rappers have ghostwriters or those who provide references to aid their lyrics.
I agree that Drake won't be respected as one of the greatest lyricists - though I don't think that he was ever in discussion for this - but rap has evolved, and each time I criticise a lot of the new age rappers I get told that lyrics don't matter/aren't important anymore, but when it comes to Drake that apparently isn't the case. He's an easy target and I'm sure those who've made up their mind about him won't ever respect him
 
Keeps It tidy said:
I do agree with a lot of what you say here. I was underwhelmed by Views and a lot of More Life. I think he has ran his darkside of fame stuff to the ground. But, I always strongly disagree with people who try to write him off as just party music. If you are partying to a Drake album it is probably a pretty depressing party. On his albums there is usually only a few real "club bangers" or "party records". Especially since 40 seems to want to make everything as dark and depressing as possible. His big club hits tend to be songs he featured on ("Who Do You Love", "Pop That", "On One", "Money to Blow", etc). And for all the talks about him not valuing lyrics he still has a few songs each album that are just bars "Do Not Disturb" being the best example on here.

And it is unfair to compare him to Nelly or Ja Rule. Neither of them ever released a project as substantial as Take Care, Nothing Was the Same or even If You are Reading This it is Too Late.
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He's definitely not just party music, but I'd be ok with popping in a CD of his in a party environment where the aforementioned elements are present. Add dim lights to that as well.

This album missed the (random time in random city) track where he just dumbs out on the track. Would have been a nice extra, although he may release it as a single (ala 4pm in Calabasas). 7 PM in Stoke maybe?

The Nelly/Ja Rule comparison is a bit of a stretch I'll admit, but the former do have very good albums under their belts. Nelly went diamond, and Ja had several number 1 albums in a role before being blindsided by 50 cent. And what do you mean by substantial? All the albums you mentioned were very good to great, but are they truly substantial, or just covering the same subject matter with better energy and quality?
 
vi1lain said:
I can respect that, and agree to an extent.
My brother told me about ghostwriting in like 2001 so I've gotten over that shock and now I accept that most rappers have ghostwriters or those who provide references to aid their lyrics.
I agree that Drake won't be respected as one of the greatest lyricists - though I don't think that he was ever in discussion for this - but rap has evolved, and each time I criticise a lot of the new age rappers I get told that lyrics don't matter/aren't important anymore, but when it comes to Drake that apparently isn't the case. He's an easy target and I'm sure those who've made up their mind about him won't ever respect him
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I think lyrics only matter when it's a question of artistry and/or overall legacy in the genre of rap.
 
adexkola said:
He's definitely not just party music, but I'd be ok with popping in a CD of his in a party environment where the aforementioned elements are present. Add dim lights to that as well.

This album missed the (random time in random city) track where he just dumbs out on the track. Would have been a nice extra, although he may release it as a single (ala 4pm in Calabasas). 7 PM in Stoke maybe?

The Nelly/Ja Rule comparison is a bit of a stretch I'll admit, but the former do have very good albums under their belts. Nelly went diamond, and Ja had several number 1 albums in a role before being blindsided by 50 cent. And what do you mean by substantial? All the albums you mentioned were very good to great, but are they truly substantial, or just covering the same subject matter with better energy and quality?
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Well he really could have called "Do Not Disturb" "7 AM in Germany" And I said substantial because of my pseudo intellect. What I really mean is I do not think Nelly or Ja Rule released albums as good as the three I mentioned from Drake.
 
Interesting page this, I thought it was just me that just didn't 'get' Drake.
Agreed he's too 'moist'.
Definately a woman's rapper - but fair play to him for mixing it up (singing etc) so his audience spectrum is quite large compared to a Game (:drool:), Rick Ross, and perhaps even Kanye and Jay-Z.
 
vi1lain said:
I've listened to More Life twice in a row now, it's so much better than Views, I didn't skip a single track.

I'd like to thank Drake for making me a stan again, Views really had me doubting whether he had peaked or not.
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That's interesting. I'm listening to Views at the moment and it sounds more structured and focused than More Life.
 
adexkola said:
That's interesting. I'm listening to Views at the moment and it sounds more structured and focused than More Life.
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It's what Views should have been.
Some songs from Views wouldn't feel out of place on More Life (One Dance, Controlla, Feel No Ways, Redemption, U With Me?, Fire & Desire, Too Good) but overall like you said More Life is much more focused, I cant help but listen to it from front to back, or at least if I start to listen to one song I continue to listen to 3/4 songs which follow in succession - I can see exactly why he called it a playlist.
 
vi1lain said:
It's what Views should have been.
Some songs from Views wouldn't feel out of place on More Life (One Dance, Controlla, Feel No Ways, Redemption, U With Me?, Fire & Desire, Too Good) but overall like you said More Life is much more focused, I cant help but listen to it from front to back, or at least if I start to listen to one song I continue to listen to 3/4 songs which follow in succession - I can see exactly why he called it a playlist.
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I would have probably given up on Drake if More Life was released instead of Drake. Not because I think More Life is substantially worse, but because at the time everyone was expecting some sort of classic from Drake. At least he tried with Views; More Life to me would have been a throwaway and him conceding that he's not in that caliber.

I enjoy the bolded off Views.
 
adexkola said:
I would have probably given up on Drake if More Life was released instead of Drake. Not because I think More Life is substantially worse, but because at the time everyone was expecting some sort of classic from Drake. At least he tried with Views; More Life to me would have been a throwaway and him conceding that he's not in that caliber.

I enjoy the bolded off Views.
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I think people's expectations of Drake are very high, and also varied, and tbh unreachable. Besides, the term 'classic album' has been watered down to the point where people consider almost anything a classic these days. A classic is meant to be rare, Jay-Z arguably has 2/3 classic albums, Nas similarly, Biggie similarly, Outkast similarly, Kanye, Eminem etc.
When all said is done I think we'll look back at Take Care & NWTS as classics when it comes to Drake, but that's neither here nor there at the moment - Classic albums need time in order to breathe and stay relevant, I personally think its too early to call anything classic within 5 years of it's release (with very few exceptions)

He'll continue to make albums that range between 6-9/10, he'll continue to experiment and try new sounds and for me personally I like that. I appreciate the artists that took more risks sonically than stuck to the same blueprint, and what's good about him is that he's consistent too. There's no point taking risks if your end product isn't enjoyable (see: Lil' Wayne - Rebirth)

More choons for your headtop.
 
He's got without doubt the best team because his culture vulturing is definitely working for him. But so often I'll listen to him on this amazingly well produced track and wish it was someone else instead of him. Like on No Long Talk he isn't heavyweight enough especially when Giggs comes in straight after him, but then Passionfruit (which I much prefer to No Long Talk) is perfect for him. He just makes me cringe a lot with his UK road life dick riding and I'd prefer it if he stayed in his lane. He can do what he wants though and tbf I am enjoying More Life more so than pretty much anything else that has dropped so far this year. He provides for his fans so you have to give that to him, even if he is a bit moist and annoying.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
What did you guys think of the love Drake showed UK rap on More Life?
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Hard to tell whether it's genuine love, or just jumping on a trend (which he has done in the past). Either way further exposure is good. I've been a fan of Skepta for a while. Giggs' features on this was ok, he probably could have done better.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
What did you guys think of the love Drake showed UK rap on More Life?
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I flip-flopping between Drake using different parts of the world to tap into new waves in order to prolong his own and perhaps further solidify his own image in markets he might not (somehow) be as popular in and it being actually sincere. For instance Giggs and Skepta give him the street cred in London and the wider UK that might have put some people off before. But the reality is that Drake is freaking huge and makes no difference probably and a lot of the things he's 'putting on' he is giving credit to and giving fans a way into genres they might not have been open to. It's more a reflection of the people of today and how they discover things rather more than anything else. The genres Drake is bringing to attention of the masses have been great for a while.

I think the UK linkup works because there are probably no decent Toronto rappers who can capture the Jamaican heritage and culture that is in Toronto as well as the Grime/UK Road Rap dudes. Also part of me thinks Drake doesn't see the UK dudes as a threat because let's be honest Skepta doesn't rap about anything particularly different to anyone else, he just enunciates everything in proper English which really resonates in the apparent era of mumble rappers.
 
One thing I definitely don't get is his patois accent though, like I get with where he's from he's probably grown up around Jamaicans and that
I have (and still do) used the vernacular from time to time (whagwarn, wasteman etc.) because it's culturally ingrained in UK culture but I'd never throw an exaggerated accent on top of it.
 
A Drake co-sign is bigger than anything these days. I remember seeing an article on how him jumping on the Dave track made Dave's Spotify listens go up a ridiculous amount over the next few days, and got him so many more fans from outside the UK. I never thought Giggs would be known by Americans or there'd be hip hop fans from across the pond eagerly awaiting Konichiwa. His effect has only been positive on the scene I think.

I do think his love for Grime is genuine, I vaguely remember seeing him post up old Lord of the Mic videos and stuff I think way before he really got mixed up with all the grime artists. I find it quite ridiculous though how his accent suddenly changes when he needs to say 'ting', and the 'more chunes for your head top' line is as hilarious as it is embarrassing.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
What did you guys think of the love Drake showed UK rap on More Life?
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He did a good job, don't think he overreached or stepped over any boundaries, didn't try to imitate or emulate, but rather appreciate the integrate Skepta & Giggs into his wider sound, and the sound grows organically from there.
Considering Giggs' history and situation, I personally think what Drake has done with him alone is fantastic, then looking at Skepta, a lot of American's know Skepta because of Drake's cosign from a couple years back now.

ArmchairCritic said:
One thing I definitely don't get is his patois accent though, like I get with where he's from he's probably grown up around Jamaicans and that
I have (and still do) used the vernacular from time to time (whagwarn, wasteman etc.) because it's culturally ingrained in UK culture but I'd never throw an exaggerated accent on top of it.
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Think this is exaggerated to be honest, his accent isn't perfect but that doesn't take away from his experience of growing up in Toronto.
If I was a grime artist and tried to rap in the same style as Skepta or Giggs my accent would be just as funny/off as Drake's - in fact because of my natural speaking accent whenever I do speak slang most of my friends make fun of me for how I sound, similarly when I attempt to talk the language of my country of heritage because of my British accent, I get made fun of for not sounding authentic - even though in both situations, my experience is as authentic as it gets, both worlds form part of my cultural identity.
Drake to be is in a similar situation - he sounds funny sure, but I don't think it takes away from his proximity to the culture.
 
Gave it a full listen all the way through for the first time, rather than just checking out a few songs as I'd done before, and I quite liked it but didn't love it. There was a good run from about Blem to Sacrifices. A few weak songs after that, and then it was fairly good again at the end around Do Not Disturb. He's got a good ear for beats and when he decides to really rap, he raps well.

Just overall I think it was lacking something, maybe a bit of hunger. Talks about "I was an angry yute when i was writing Views", but I just wanted to hear him really go hard on a verse properly. 6 or 7 out of 10 album that will no doubt make him a lot of money, break a lot of streaming records and spawn a lot of Instagram captions. But nothing that I'd point to a few years and reflect on as anything particularly special or memorable.
 
New Freddie Gibbs album is v good, same vibe as Piñata. Back at his best.
 
Nice beat. Not really into the lyrics, but at least he's rapping, unlike half the nonsense posted in this thread.
 
Joey Bada$$' album literally just dropped.

Love him to be honest, his raps actually have meaning, even just listening to the intro you can tell he's great.

EDIT: So far I think it's great. You know I hear a lot about how hip-hop hasn't been the same since the 90s which is fair enough but there are a lot of rappers nowadays that are equally as good as a lot of the rappers in the 90s.

Take Joey, Kendrick, Santan Dave and J.I.D for example. All of which have displayed examples of genuinely good rhymes, lyricism, writing skills and flow. There are a lot of poor rappers today but equally there are many good hip-hop artists that are more unknown the ones I just listed. It just takes longer to find them I guess.
 
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