Did you post that because you agreed with it? Because it is very shit
Did you post that because you agreed with it? Because it is very shit
So it should be held against him that he is seemingly the poster boy for Hip Hop?
I love Cole and think he deserves every bit of success and critical acclaim he receives
Big Boi because he didn't fecking quit on me and start selling fecking razors or whatever the feck Andre did or does. Seriously though Andre 3000 is probably Top 5 Dead Or Alive even though he has never released an album (solo) I mean he pretty much birthed Kendrick Lamar's whole style:
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So it should be held against him that he is seemingly the poster boy for Hip Hop?
I love Cole and think he deserves every bit of success and critical acclaim he receives
1. Posted it to hear some thoughts.
2. No need for the smileys,and you're putting words in my mouth.
If you love Cole, that's fine. I like his body work too, I do agree with the point about him looking better on paper, however. if you were given a report on a rapper with Cole's attributes:subject matter,background,flow,production,creativity, penmanship skill,consciousness etc,you would naturally expect that individual to be in a future first ballot GOAT contender, especially in an era that is literally begging for such MCs.
His embodiment and his end product are 2 very different things. Not really sure as to why, Has he found his lane and so is therefore free of such expectations? Perhaps, Or is he just another living example of the fact that being perfect on paper doesn't necessary lead to top level greatness (something like the Eden Hazard of the rap game).
We all like Cole,but your chick probably loves him more than you do.
Yeah, I like Big boi too.
And no, I don't think a man without a solo project is in the top 5 of the GOAT list - if there was ever a GOAT list.
I will probably compile the caf's GOAT list one of these days, going to be difficult,but I'm sure certain names will linger. Would also be interesting to see where K.dot is ranked and where his potential will also be ranked ( when it's all said and done), Since this is a Top Dawg oriented forum and all.
The Caf sure does love some Anthony Tiffith.
And no, I don't think a man without a solo project is in the top 5 of the GOAT list - if there was ever a GOAT list.
I will probably compile the caf's GOAT list one of these days, going to be difficult,but I'm sure certain names will linger. Would also be interesting to see where K.dot is ranked and where his potential will also be ranked ( when it's all said and done), Since this is a Top Dawg oriented forum and all
.The Caf sure does love some Anthony Tiffith.
Well I offered thoughts, it's trash
I don't get the whole he is so good we have to hold it against him thing.
His end product (for me) is dope. People criticise him for not being Drake and making club songs and call him boring but of that's what I wanted I would listen to Drake?
I think he is easily in the top 3 of this era with Drake and Kendrick so this top level greatness thing is also puzzling to me. He is well respected in the game and sells records to boot (FHD is certified Platinum, outsold Kanye first week with his last effort).
Think that last line applies to Drake more than it does Cole though
Yes. It is your right to offer an opinion.
Again, putting words in my mouth. And in no way,shape or form did i say his end product isn't dope,the point i was trying to make with his end product is pretty clear if you read my post.
Can we have an argument in this era without someone trying to squeeze Drake into it ?(mostly in a form of criticism),it is getting tiresome.
Haven't even compared Cole to Drake, don't throw Drake into this, let's leave it at Cole. And if my post gave up any kind of vibe that he was being compared to anyone in this era, then perhaps a more conscious rapper,who is somewhat in the same vein as an individual who equally embodies certain deep rooted aspects of the 90s, and someone whose ceiling is definitely higher than Cole - perhaps let's say, Mr Duckworth?
This is not a 'J.Cole is boring' argument.
Top 3 in this era? definitely, but what does that prove, exactly?(especially in this argument), have you actually seen the era we are talking about?
At the end of the day, certain individuals will be ranked according to their impact on the genre, amongst other things - not necessarily in a single list as that is practically impossible,but certain names still get mentioned frequently when it's all said and done. That is the level of greatness i was referring to.
It does apply more to Drake, but i refer to this
The point about end product comes from:
His embodiment and his end product are 2 very different things.
Think it's pretty clear what you're saying given that you say he embodies everything that would make him a GOAT.
I'll bring Drake into it because he is relevant, why would I not compare him with one of his peers? The same way people do it to criticise Cole?
Kendrick is reality rap I wouldn't say conscious (prior to TPAB he was on this All Lives Matter shit and duly got torn apart for it), when shit was popping off in Ferguson first person there was Cole. His interview with Combat is also pretty interesting in terms of the statements he made. As was his performance on Letterman.
He is top 3 in this era but I think his skill set is such that he would be able to hold his own whenever.
When you say certain individuals who do you mean, Drake? Massive impact on the game but again using your own gauge: "what does that prove, exactly?(especially in this argument), have you actually seen the era we are talking about? "
No. It is pretty clear that i am acknowledging the fact that he is one of the greats in this era, whilst also acknowledging the fact that he has the tools to definitely be a greater MC, ultimately questioning what tier of greatness he will be ranked, when it's all said and done.
Bringing Drake into an argument to measure Cole's greatness is fine, and i get where you're coming from, i just don't see the point in bringing Drake into this argument, when i'm not questioning Cole's greatness in this era.
Conscious rap is reality rap.
And when i say certain individuals, i don't mean Drake. I believe Drake is the most limited of the three, when it comes to potentially being ranked alongside the all time greats. So no, not Drake.... i also refer to this, again.
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Come to think of it, this era is doodoo.
Well I like a few others who ready that post clearly got the wromg end of the stick in regards to what you were trying to say, perhaps you should have been a tad clearer.
Again Drake is one of his peers regardless of what era you're looking at Drake as well as Kendrick and others will be included in the argument because they too are greats.
Reality rap doesn't have to be conscious rap, you can rap about your reality without it having the "positive" message that people think conscious rap entails. Ice Cube was a master of this, especially after his flirtation with the NOI.
You can refer to that a million times whilst I will refer to why I choose not to especially given the point I already made
You read to criticise, not understand.
Again, i wasn't talking about his greatness in this era, you brought Drake up, i didnt. My intention was never to compare Cole to his peers, but since you wanted to compare him to an artist on a similar level, i suggested Kendrick, as Kendrick is cut from a similar cloth.
If by 'reality rap' you mean rapping about ones surroundings,reality, experiences etc, then it's conscious. Conscious rap is often misconceived as political rap, most people actually limit the definition of consciousness in rap, as they often picture the likes of Kweli,Mos def and Common when describing a conscious rapper.
Kendrick Lamar, just like J.Cole is a conscious rapper,heck he even dabbled in some political rap as far back as section 80, when he was talking about drugs and the reagan era, and a little racism. Not every conscious rap has a positive message, by the way.
Don't get the last bit.
Birdman and Lil Wayne are back on speaking terms ( at least, that's what Stunna's Instagram depicts), so we can expect the Carter V sometime between now and the summer of 2016.
Unconcious rap > concious rap IMO.
I fully agree with this.
I'm in the camp that firmly sits that Cole is overrated. I'm a fan, I like his music, seen him live 3x and I like his character and what he stands for (going to Ferguson, role model to his neighbourhood, caring about his fans etc)
But the fact that based on rapping ability, he's held in the same group as Kendrick & Drake says to me he's overrated.
Kendrick & Drake, will be remembered for generations. Cole is a level below. He makes good music, easy to listen to music, good albums. But nothing really stands out. Forest Hills Drive was a great album, his best yet, had a pretty big impact considering the titles that came out at a similar time, sold very well but even then something is just lacking. 1/3 of it is forgettable to me.
I couldn't disagree more.
Hip-hop has been at it's best, when it's challenged social, political & economic issues.
Unconscious rap has a place in hip hop for sure, but personally i'll never say it's greater than conscious rap because a lot of it panders to the stereotypes of both hip-hop & black people, and is used as fuel to put black people down. And as a result, the culture of hip-hop - which includes unconscious rap - suffers.
And I disagreed with the comparison, I'm sure we can find subtle similarities between Cole and Kendrick the same way you can between Cole and Drake and even someone removed from the convo like lets say Ross. It speaks of the era rather than the artists.
Reality rap to me is rapping about real things like Wet Dreams for example is reality rap, it's something every male had to go through nothing 'conscious' about it.
I'm well aware "Not every conscious rap has a positive message, by the way." hence I said you can rap about your reality without it having the "positive" message that people think conscious rap entails
I would have thought this would be rather obvious given what I typed
Depends how I'm feeling, sometimes I just want to get lit and have fun, sometimes I want to hear that message. Don't think I can ever be set in one specific mode
I don't get this, he can rap his ass off.
As a body of work I don't think Drake has put out an album as complete as FHD
Wordplay, lyricism, delivery I put him up there but meh you can have your opinions and I can have mine
Lol what the feck is unconcious rap, I was joking, all rap is political when you think about it by the way.
Eh, a 13 track album with an intro, interlude & outro. 10 tracks sandwiched in between with no verse that really sets the bar or is particularly memorable or different to anything we've heard before. NWTS in particular beats it quite comfortably as a whole body of work, IYRTITL is also better. And both of Kendrick's albums beat it comfortably too.
You're right you have your opinions I have mine, but I don't think there's a verse on FHD that beats Drake & Kendrick's last efforts.
The comparison was as a result of the fact that both Kendrick and J.Cole are really more conscious than Drake, and they both embody the core essence of hip hop in the 90s, more so than Drake anyway. Not to take anything away from Drake or his style.(feels like I'm just constantly repeating myself at this point).
Again with the misconception of conscious rap, heck, just the word conscious in general. You (like a vast majority of hip hop fans) are limiting the definition of conscious rap and a conscious rapper, by categorising a conscious rapper(not necessarily in words, but in your insinuation which is clearly skewing your judgement) as a Kweli,Mos Def,Black Thought etc. Which is wrong, popular, but wrong.
By definition:
What the feck do you even mean by 'reality rap is rapping about real things' anyway? unless there are some weird rap albums about aliens or cartoon characters or things are not of this world in general, it is safe to say that in the majority of songs,albums,EPs etc, no matter how trivial,annoying,unpleasant or just flat out terrible/trash in Hip Hop - heck, music in general, there is a sense of 'reality' in each and every one of those songs.
'I just fecked your [b..tch] in some Gucci flip flops
I just had some [b....tches] and I made 'em lip lock' - Future
'Bullet holes left in my peepholes
I'm suited up in street clothes,hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes' - Nas
'Sleeping every night next to Mona Lisa
The modern day version with better features'- Jay Z
'I got my whole country on a new wave
She like "I heard all your [n...gas] stay where you stay"
House so big I haven't seen them boys in two days
Bitch, I use a Walkie-Talkie just to get a beverage' - Drake
'That college girl over there, she give good brain
When I pull out my gun, it goes chitty bang bang
I love 'em fat [b...tches] cuz they titty hang hang
When I'm trying to get some food stamps, to buy some champagne
When you in the senior cars, gonna make you switch lanes
Blame it on the muthafecking game' - O'l dirty bastard
'I'm in love with the coco
I'm in love with the coco
I got it for the low, low
I'm in love with the coco
I'm in love with the coco
I'm in love with the coco
I got it for the low, low
I'm in love with the coco' - O.T Genasis
Examples of rappers, rapping about their realities, 'real things' as you say which each and everyone one of them have experienced/or were still experiencing as at the time they recorded those songs. And it's the same in every genre, from Hip Hop to country to punjabi music, from Chief Keef to Celine Dion.
There is a certain level of consciousness in even the most trivial of songs.
'I just fecked your [b..tch] in some Gucci flip flops
I just had some [b....tches] and I made 'em lip lock' - Future
'Bullet holes left in my peepholes
I'm suited up in street clothes,hand me a nine and I'll defeat foes' - Nas
'Sleeping every night next to Mona Lisa
The modern day version with better features'- Jay Z
'I got my whole country on a new wave
She like "I heard all your [n...gas] stay where you stay"
House so big I haven't seen them boys in two days
Bitch, I use a Walkie-Talkie just to get a beverage' - Drake
'That college girl over there, she give good brain
When I pull out my gun, it goes chitty bang bang
I love 'em fat [b...tches] cuz they titty hang hang
When I'm trying to get some food stamps, to buy some champagne
When you in the senior cars, gonna make you switch lanes
Blame it on the muthafecking game' - O'l dirty bastard
'I'm in love with the coco
I'm in love with the coco
I got it for the low, low
I'm in love with the coco
I'm in love with the coco
I'm in love with the coco
I got it for the low, low
I'm in love with the coco' - O.T Genasis
Examples of rappers, rapping about their realities, 'real things' as you say which each and everyone one of them have experienced/or were still experiencing as at the time they recorded those songs. And it's the same in every genre, from Hip Hop to country to punjabi music, from Chief Keef to Celine Dion.
There is a certain level of consciousness in even the most trivial of songs.
That verse on Fire Squad but ok
I can guarantee you can relate more to Wet Dreams than you can to lets say doing a drive by, blowing stacks in a strip club etc
Whilst I never done a drive by I've thrown stacks in a club but that's rare for me, J Cole is more relatable to me than fecking girls in Gucci flip flops and then making them lip lock, drinking lean and fecking up commas
Now for the average man, how many beat their straps, have houses so big they need walkie talkies to talk to their people on the other side or pick up brick of coke.
You've just proved my point.
They may be entertaining but they aren't relatable.
Where he talked about white superiority in music? Then went on to relate it to hip-hop?
I mean TPAB is pretty much all about institutionalised racism and white supremacy, and he does so to greater effect too.
And his wordplay and lyricism isn't anything that's supremely better than anything on either of the Drake albums i've referenced.
The problem with that verse is that J.Cole will produce a great verse every now and then, he needs to improve his quality on a consistent basis. Because even on that very song, the first verse was forgettable, second verse was slightly better, and the 3rd verse is one of the best on the album.
Like I said FHD is a great album, easy to listen to, lots of great tracks. But if we're talking rapping ability, setting the bar and doing something different? In comparison to Kendrick & Drake? Nah he's not on the same level for me.
But again that's my opinion.
What has happened to this thread, what the feck have you guys done.
Agree that this post is a load of bollocks written by somebody who's trying to sound smart. Rodgers of some shitty articles if you will.
New track from Game by the way.
Agree that this post is a load of bollocks written by somebody who's trying to sound smart. Rodgers of some shitty articles if you will.
New track from Game by the way.
Rap debates in 2015 are the worst thing ever, just listen to what you like and keep it moving.
Different songs are relatable to different kinds of people, people who live that trap life relate to Gucci,Jeezy and so on. A lot of people throw stacks in the club, so they can definitely relate to the likes of Drake, future, in those instances.
J.Cole's subject matter is easily relatable. I mean, he raps like he is between the ages of 17-23 and he is on a journey to take over the rap game (a 6 year long journey, i might add), and he is a 30 year old man. Not taking anything away from him though. My educated guess would be that you're around that age bracket - hence, relatability
But, your original point wasn't even about relatability, though. You specifically said 'reality rap' which by your definition, meant you were referring to conscious rap and you probably didn't know it. You then went on to use 'wet dreams' as an example of 'reality rap', which is basically a depiction of his teenage 'experience' - which suggests that he is in fact a conscious rapper.
Consciousness and relatability aren't necessarily one and the same. An individual doesn't necessarily have to agree with/relate to your conscious thoughts, poetry,songs etc, for it to be conscious. As long as you are rapping about your surroundings, experiences,feelings and so on.... - Although, the world is filled with people who possibly share the same experiences as you, so there is a high chance that there is an individual out there, who can relate to your story, even if you're rapping about trees.
This is from one of the deepest songs i have ever heard in my entire life.
I really can't relate to 99% of the things he said in this song, as i didn't grow up in the hood/America or live under such horrific conditions. Doesn't take anything away from the fact that it is still a really conscious song from a non conscious rapper. By way of your definition, i should not be able to feel the vehemence in the song, as i cannot relate to the lyrics.
Consciousness ≠ Relatability.
I fear NY/East Coast hip hop may never rise again.
Not with Troy Average as their hottest MC out anyway.
Not with Troy Average as their hottest MC out anyway.
The Game >>>>>>>>
Only a matter of time before you bring up Rick Ross being a C.O again
Honestly I'm done with rap debates, opinions and the internet at large now. Every single rap song/album worth listening to is out there waiting to be listened to so I'd rather go listen to them all.
The serious replies.
LOOOOL it's all opinion and everyone is gonna think their opinion is wrong. IDGAF though I don't know anybody in here and even if I did meh. Enjoy what you're listening to
That Bryson Tiller tape is jumpy btw
Album is leaked btw
3 things constant in life.
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. The Game getting killed on his own track by either Kendrick or Wayne.
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. The Game getting killed on his own track by either Kendrick or Wayne.
Kendrick has pretty much killed everyone he has jumped on a track with, to be fair, except of course, Jay Rock.