College Football Season Begins...

[FLASHWOK]

I think UCLA and Alabama are close right now. I think that Alabama has more character than UCLA. There's probably teams with worse records that are better than both of them.

I don't know about that character bit...UCLA has had some insane gut-check comebacks.

I say UCLA because I just think Bama has no offense this year. They are simply playing lights out great defense...but I think UCLA would put up enough points on them to win because of their non-existent offense.

UCLA, while not perfect is a very good team this year. The difference in that is character, which they didn't have in recent years.

I don't know how many better teams there are than UCLA with worse records.

maybe Miami and FSU...maybe LSU...but it's still a stretch. UCLA is good this year.

 

[kennyj]

I would like to see UCLA play Notre Dame. That would be a pretty good Bowl Game.

 

[FLASHWOK]

I would like to see UCLA play Notre Dame. That would be a pretty good Bowl Game.

yeah...though I would like to see a rematch of the Miami-NOtre Dame series.

that would be great

 

[kennyj]

yeah...though I would like to see a rematch of the Miami-NOtre Dame series.

that would be great

Criminals vs Catholics again. I could see that.

I remember one year Miami beat ND and Gerry Faust by 48 points. Then Digger Phelps and the ND basketball team coincidentally beat Miami's by 48 points later in the year.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Criminals vs Catholics again. I could see that.

I remember one year Miami beat ND and Gerry Faust by 48 points. Then Digger Phelps and the ND basketball team coincidentally beat Miami's by 48 points later in the year.

those were great games...but the whole "catholics vs. criminals" thing was a farce...oe of the ND players said later "we were every bit as bad and out of control as the canes were"

 

[kennyj]

those were great games...but the whole "catholics vs. criminals" thing was a farce...oe of the ND players said later "we were every bit as bad and out of control as the canes were"

Agreed, but ND never got off the plane wearing combat fatigues.

I give Jimmy Johnson credit - he could have played for a tie and had the guts to go for two. Not like Ray Perkins at Alabama - he went for one and Bama became known as the Crimson Tied that year.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Agreed, but ND never got off the plane wearing combat fatigues.

I give Jimmy Johnson credit - he could have played for a tie and had the guts to go for two. Not like Ray Perkins at Alabama - he went for one and Bama became known as the Crimson Tied that year.

the combat fatigues thing was funny and when the whole team walked out of the dinner before the bowl game vs. Penn State

that's why i love college football.

 

[kennyj]

the combat fatigues thing was funny and when the whole team walked out of the dinner before the bowl game vs. Penn State

They went to see that Chuck Norris movie Missing in Action as a team before the game wearing those fatigues. I think Vinny from Elmont was on that team. Maybe that's why Penn State beat them.

 

[FLASHWOK]

They went to see that Chuck Norris movie Missing in Action as a team before the game wearing those fatigues. I think Vinny from Elmont was on that team. Maybe that's why Penn State beat them.

I still remember that game quite well. DJ Dozier, Vinny T, Jerome Brown, Shane Conlan, Mike Irvin and all that.

great game.

 

[kennyj]

Joe Pa's finest hour. He had a great game plan to contain them - and he had Shane Conlin. Great game.

That's why it's hard to say that one game was better than another. There have been so many great ones.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Joe Pa's finest hour. He had a great game plan to contain them - and he had Shane Conlin. Great game.

That's why it's hard to say that one game was better than another. There have been so many great ones.

the Miami-Nebraska Orange Bowl which began the Miami Dynasty was great.

those old Miami-Flordia State games that began "Wide Right" were great as well.

 

[MrMarcello]

Flash, "high octane offenses" don't always win national championships. See Nebraska 1994 & 1997, Tennessee 1998, Oklahoma 2000, Ohio State 2002.

Texas not playing a "high octane offense" (suppose you forgot Tech, and despite their schedule, they would be classified as a "high-octane offense" as the 450+ ypg passing and over 50ppg average prove it) doesn't mean they aren't a great team. They beat a standout defense on the road. Seems to me, overcoming a standout defense on the road is just as tough, if not more so, than defeating a "high octane offense," home or away.

But that's the mentality of you PAC10 fans. You think offense is everything. Maybe that's why it took two decades before a PAC10 team managed to win a national championship. Becuase USC learned that defense can win as well. And they have played solid defense the last 2 years.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Flash, "high octane offenses" don't always win national championships. See Nebraska 1994 & 1997, Tennessee 1998, Oklahoma 2000, Ohio State 2002.

Texas not playing a "high octane offense" (suppose you forgot Tech, and despite their schedule, they would be classified as a "high-octane offense" as the 450+ ypg passing and over 50ppg average prove it)

Texas Tech has a high octane passing attack, with no balance, or running attack, in a weak conference and have played half their games against D1aa opponents who have 3 wins beteween them.

doesn't mean they aren't a great team. They beat a standout defense on the road. Seems to me, overcoming a standout defense on the road is just as tough, if not more so, than defeating a "high octane offense," home or away.



not really.

this is the most overatted Ohio State team in a long time. They have no offense, and small, fast receivers who can't run routes and two QB's that can't throw the ball.

But that's the mentality of you PAC10 fans. You think offense is everything. Maybe that's why it took two decades before a PAC10 team managed to win a national championship.

Washington was co-national champs in 1991, with one of the finest defenses in the history of college football.


Becuase USC learned that defense can win as well. And they have played solid defense the last 2 years.

I don't think offense is everything...but the last big 12 team we played was very near the top of the nation in defense(oklahoma) as well as offense and it didn't help them much.

fact is, you have not played a team as fast as USC is in all facets of the game. you have not faced a balanced high octane offense that can run AND pass with equal efficiency. you have not proven that Vince Young won't turn the ball over at an alarming rate when under pressure.

as for "great defenses" in other conferences, USC ran up more yards in a 2 minute span (271 yards) vs. Arkansas, then undefeated Georgia did and Alabama nearly did in a full game (216 yards and 301 yards respectively.) vs. Arkansas.

the 517 yards that those two undefeated teams ran up was up 219 yards less than USC did in one game...with it's 2nd string , 3rd string and walk ons in for the last quarter andd a half.


if USC and Texas are both at their best...USC wins hands down. Texas has not proven anything against top tier talent yet. The Ohio State team they played can be described as pedestrian at best...they had good linebackers and a good secondary and that is all.

they have yet to prove that they can go toe to toe with a top tier team.

they are a good team, they have handily beaten overmatched opponents...but have not proven they are a great team yet...there is only one way for them to do that...and you know what it is.

 

[FLASHWOK]

and just for the record Marcello...here are Texas Tech's "great" numbers. I have calculated them at 6-0, prior to the UT game, so you don't complain that I am factoring in their lowered numbers after being beaten by UT.

Texas Tech - 6 games...
5 home games, 1 away,

3 division 1AA opponents, 3 1A opponents

record of 3 division 1AA opponents - (incl TT) 3-17
record of 3 division 1A opponents - (incl TT) 12-9


Texas Tech Schedule/Results and offensive numbers


..............................................RshAT..YDS...PassATT..YDS...TOT OFF
H. Florida International 56-3....... 23....135.......45.......518.....653

H. Sam Houston State 80-21.......26....120.......55.......650.....770

H. Indiana State....... 63-7........23.....242......47.......296.....538

H. Kansas....................30-17......26......47.......53.......330.....380

A. Nebraska.................34-31......23......44.......45.......368.....412

H. Kansas State...........59-20......25......15.......72.......669.....684



Totals.........................322-99....146.....803.....317......2831...3634



TEXAS TECH AVERAGE PER GAME....FOR 6 TOTAL GAMES

POINTS PG.........53.66
RUSHES PG.........24.33
RUSH YDS PG......133.87
PASS ATT PG.......52.87
PASS YDS PG......471.87
TOT PLAYS PG......78
TOT YDS PG........605.74
TOT YDS PPLAY...7.76


TEXAS TECH AVERAGE PER GAME....VS. 3 DIVISION 1AA TEAMS
POINTS PG...........66.33
RUSHES PG..........24
RUSH YDS PG.......165.7
PASS ATT PG.......49
PASS YDS PG.......488
TOT PLAYS PG......73
TOT YDS PG.........653.7
TOT YDS PPLAY....8.95


TEXAS TECH AVERAGE PER GAME....VS. 3 DIVISION 1A TEAMS
POINTS PG...........41
RUSHES PG...........24.7
RUSH YDS PG.......35.7
PASS ATT PG.......56.7
PASS YDS PG.......455.7
TOT PLAYS PG......81.4
TOT YDS PG.........491.4
TOT YDS PPLAY....6.35


I'm still not impressed.


I hope you appreciate this Marcello...I was forced to do all the math myself...to tell you what you already knew...TT was a totally overrated, one dimensional, system team, with a pussy schedule

 

[Jens]

Giving up 17 to Kansas and only beating the Fuskers by 3 is just bad. The only impressive thing is beating KSU by 39. Wonder how they can be ranked so high.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Giving up 17 to Kansas and only beating the Fuskers by 3 is just bad. The only impressive thing is beating KSU by 39. Wonder how they can be ranked so high.

because the fact that they played 3 D1AA teams wasn't taken into account, that's how


and they blew a 3 TD lead over the Huskers, and only won because o a lucky play when Hodges threw a pic on their last drive. The husker who picked it off fumbled and handed it back to tech on the husker 10 yard line with 20 seconds to go.

 

[MrMarcello]

if USC and Texas are both at their best...USC wins hands down. Texas has not proven anything against top tier talent yet. The Ohio State team they played can be described as pedestrian at best...they had good linebackers and a good secondary and that is all.

they have yet to prove that they can go toe to toe with a top tier team.

they are a good team, they have handily beaten overmatched opponents...but have not proven they are a great team yet...there is only one way for them to do that...and you know what it is.

Your analysis is such a good laugh. Now you're a prognosticator too. Will make it even sweeter if Texas wins...that is if UCLA doesn't knock USC off their pedestal beforehand.

Ohio State's strength of schedule was 20th in the nation the year they won the national title. The Big Ten had an off year and Ohio State avoided Iowa that season (both teams 8-0 in conference play). Ohio State's offense was ranked 70th in the nation, their defense was 23rd. Yet they overcame the new "greatest team in history" who was much better than them on paper and in nearly every statistical category. Which proves that any dog can have it's day.

 

[Jens]

i cant wait for the day texas plays usc and one of you two will fall flat on his arse ...

 

[Jens]

of the top programs vtech is probably my favorite because i saw a lot of them during the michael vick era with beamer ball etc. and id normally want them to play either usc or texas in the rose, but i just might start rooting for a usc/ut rose bowl because of you two. the 4 week build up to the rose bowl here would be one for the ages.

for the record, flashie´s arguments convince me more than mm´s.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Your analysis is such a good laugh.

perhaps, but doesn't make it any less correct. Texas is a very good team, but USC has more talent than Texas. USC is on pace to have a QB that passes for 3000 yards, two running backs each over 1000 yards and two receivers each over 1000 yards...something that has never been done...ever.

Now you're a prognosticator too. Will make it even sweeter if Texas wins...that is if UCLA doesn't knock USC off their pedestal beforehand.

exactly...because we actually have a difficult schedule against 3 ranked teams coming up...whereas you don't. Make sure Va. Tech doesn't leapfrog you guys.

Ohio State's strength of schedule was 20th in the nation the year they won the national title.

so? 20th is a very tough schedule rank.

The Big Ten had an off year and Ohio State avoided Iowa that season (both teams 8-0 in conference play).

we crushed Iowa that year in the Orange FYI.

Ohio State's offense was ranked 70th in the nation, their defense was 23rd. Yet they overcame the new "greatest team in history"

McGahee was knocked out of the game with a brutal injury you forgot to mention. He was their entire running game. Miami also turned the ball over 5 times that game. Ohio State also had Maurice Clarett, who was quite a talent before he freaked out. OSU that year also was reknowned for winning close, low-scoring games, with tough defense and a tough, smart QB.

who was much better than them on paper and in nearly every statistical category.

As good as that Miami team was, their "record on paper"...is not nearly as impressive as ours in the past couple of years and their numbers since they played in the Big Least were inflated just a bit. The Numbers USC put up in 2002, 2003, 2004 and this year so far, are all more impressive than those posted by that Miami team. Defensively, USC in 2003 and 2004 were almost as good as Miami 2002, but USC D squads in 2002 or this year weren't near that Miami squad.

MIAMI 2002 Schedule and Total Yards (offense)

Aug 31 Florida A&M W 63-17.... 516
Sep 7 Florida W 41-16............ 508
Sep 14 Temple W 44-21.......... 477
Sep 21 Boston College W 38-6.. 393
Oct 5 Connecticut W 48-14..... 498
Oct 12 Florida St. W 28-27...... 477
Oct 26 West Virginia W 40-23.. 524
Nov 2 Rutgers W 42-17.......... 436
Nov 9 Tennessee W 26-3....... 422
Nov 21 Pittsburgh W 28-21..... 315
Nov 30 Syracuse W 49-7........ 565
Dec 7 Virginia Tech W 56-45... 556
Jan 3 Ohio St. L 24-31........... 369

OFFENSIVE PPG...40.5
DEFENSIVE PPG...19.1

OFFENSIVE YPG...467.2
DEFENSIVE YPG...289.1

RUSHING ..GP Att .Gain ..Loss.Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
-----------------------------------------------------------
McGAHEE, Willis .13 282 1808 55 1753 6.2 28 69 134.8
GEATHERS, J..... 13 68 419 21 398 5.9 3 62 30.6
PAYTON, J.. ......12 50 236 13 223 4.5 0 37 18.6


PASSING GP Effic Att-Cmp-Int Pct Yds TD Lng Avg/G
---------------------------------------------------------------
DORSEY, Ken 13 145.90 393-222-12 56.5 3369 28 77 259.2

RECEIVING GP No. Yds Avg TD Long Avg/G
-------------------------------------------------
WINSLOW, Kellen 13 57 726 12.7 8 58 55.8
JOHNSON, Andre 12 52 1092 21.0 9 68 91.0
McGAHEE, Willis 13 .. 27 355 13.1 0 77 27.3
BEARD, Kevin 10 .. 23 262 11.4 4 32 26.2
SANDS, Ethenic 13 . 21 312 14.9 4 53 24.0
PARRISH, Roscoe 13 19 340 17.9 2 58 26.2
HILL, Quadtrine 12 ..15 192 12.8 0 42 16.0
GEATHERS, Jason 13 8 103 12.9 2 20 7.9



They had an excellent defense and a very balanced offense, but their offense was not nearly as prolific as this USC offense. Johnson was a great receiver, but his numbers weren't eye-popping. neither were Dorsey's or Winslow's. McGahee was an absolute monster that year on the ground. there was not much depth or production behind McGahee or Johnson. Johnson, Winslow and McGahee left early, so we'll never know how good they may have been in 2003 (Dorsey would have been gone so Berlin would have been QB)

We'll never find out how good USC offense could be next year either...Bush and White will leave early, along with Justice and Smith and possibly Matua. Leinart wouldn't have been there anyway,(like Dorsey) but Booty has more talent (physically not mentally) and would have slid in fine with all those guys as seniors...much the way Leinart slid in after Palmer.





Which proves that any dog can have it's day.
unless you are Mack Brown and Texas

and my analysis is right on...USC and UT both at their best...USC wins.

UT has been tested once this season, vs. Ohio State. The BIG 12 is a one horse conference this year...and that is a fact. USC has been tested again and again and passed.

USC's entire offense will be drafted between this year and next year.

UT's can't say the same.


UT does not have the offensive firepower USC has...period. UT's success is totally dependent on Vince Young...and that is a fact.

USC can win if Leinart has an off day (ND, Oregon, ASU). Texas cannot win if Young is off.

my player by player comparison.

three ratings...

A USC or TEXAS, means CLEAR SUPERIORITY
A EVEN-----------means EVEN, (obviously)
A EVEN with a < or > means very slight edge to the team arrow is towards


.............USC...................EDGE.......................TEXAS

QB- LEINART..................<.EVEN.......................YOUNG
TB- BUSH.........................USC........................CHARLES
TB- WHITE.......................USC.........................S. YOUNG
FB- KIRTMAN....................USC.........................HALL /MYERS
TE- BYRD.........................USC........................THOMAS
LT- BAKER........................TEXAS.....................SCOTT
LG- LUTUI.........................USC.......................STUDDARD
C- KALIL...........................EVEN......................SENDLEIN
RG-MATUA........................EVEN......................ALLEN
RT-JUSTICE......................EVEN......................BLALOCK
WR-JARRETT.....................USC.......................SWEED/TAYLOR
WR-SMITH........................USC.......................CARTER/PITTMAN
K- DANELO.......................TEXAS....................PINO
P- MALONE.......................USC.......................MCGEE

DE-JACKSON.....................USC.......................ROBISON
NT-ELLIS......................<.EVEN......................DIBBLES/OKAM
DT-RAMSEY.....................TEXAS.....................WRIGHT
DE-RUCKER.......................USC.......................CROWDER
WLB-RIVERS.....................USC........................BOBINO
MLB-LUA.........................TEXAS.....................HARRIS
SLB-WILLIAMS..................EVEN......................KILLEBREW
CB-PINKARD.....................EVEN......................C.GRIFFIN
CB-WYATT......................USC........................ROSS/BROWN
FS-WARE........................TEXAS......................M. GRIFFIN
SS-BING..........................USC........................HUFF

KR/PR-BUSH.....................USC........................TAYLOR/BROWN/ROSS

COACH
PETE CARROLL..................USC........................MACK BROWN




that's a very fair assessment at this point in the season.

 

[Raoul]

of the top programs vtech is probably my favorite because i saw a lot of them during the michael vick era with beamer ball etc. and id normally want them to play either usc or texas in the rose, but i just might start rooting for a usc/ut rose bowl because of you two. the 4 week build up to the rose bowl here would be one for the ages.

for the record, flashie´s arguments convince me more than mm´s.

I've got news for you. Virginia Tech is not a top program.


kin newbies.

 

[MrMarcello]

So Flash, Texas hasn't played a high octane offense you say...what top ranked defense has USC played against?

Washington surrenders over 33-ppg and 434-ypg
Hawaii surrenders over 37-ppg and 430-ypg
Arkansas surrenders over 30-ppg and 394-ypg
Arizona surrenders nearly 27-ppg and 380-ypg
Arizona State surrenders 30-ppg and 450-ypg
Notre Dame surrenders over 25-ppg and 425-ypg (over 300-ypg passing)
Oregon surrenders 24.5 ppg and 360-ypg.
None of those teams are in the top 25 in total defense. Rutgers ranks ahead of all those schools.

Texas defense is (per game) 7th in points allowed, 6th in total yards allowed, 24th in pass yards allowed, 11th in rush yards allowed. Texas has played 2 good defensive teams, OSU and CU. Even OU is good defensively but their offense gives up points on turnovers.

Ohio State surrenders 14.6-ppg and 259-ypg, Texas put 25 and 385 past OSU in a hostile environment.
Colorado surrenders 18-ppg and 334-ypg, Texas put 42 and 486 past CU.
Texas Tech surrenders 21.6-ppg and 332-ypg, Texas put 52 and 449 past TT. (Regardless of opponents Tech played, these stats still apply or NCAA would separate them)
Oklahoma surrenders 24.6-ppg and 301-ypg (77 rushing), Texas put 45 and 447 ypg (206 rushing).
La Lafeyette, Missouri, and Rice are crap defensively. I've always stated Tech was over-rated.

Let's talk opponents since you love to point this out.
Arizona's lone victory came against 2-5 Northern Arizona.
Hawaii has beaten stellar San Jose State (1-6), Idaho (1-6), and New Mexico State (0-7).
Washington wanted a victory, so they beat Idaho, their only win to date.
Arkansas beat two small D-1 schools, La Monroe and Missouri State (who?).
Arizona State has a victory over 0-8 Temple, and beat a Northwestern team fresh off wins over Ohio and Northern Illinois (N'western's play of late makes this win look much prettier than it did 4 weeks ago).
Oregon has beaten Houston, Montana, Washington, ASU, and Arizona. A nice win over Fresno State helps, and Stanford ain't horrible, but not good either...average.
And Notre Dame...before the USC game, you said their 4 wins came against weak opponents and that ND was over-rated. But now your tune will change to better your argument. Suddenly, USC's schedule doesn't looks so great, but will get a boost with Cal, Fresno State (barely hanging in the top 25), and UCLA.

La Lafeyette (2-5) and Rice (0-6) are shit, no doubt.
Ohio State is 5-2, wins over Iowa and Michigan State, loss to Penn State.
Missouri 5-2 and has benefitted against a weaker Big XII and a couple of non-conference cupcakes.
Texas Tech 6-1 and yes, we know they played cupcakes, save average Nebraska and Kansas State teams.
Oklahoma is 4-3 has lost to TCU and UCLA, both ranked, and haven't looked great against anyone other than Kansas State.
Colorado 5-2 lost to Miami but beat 5-2 A&M and beat NM State like Hawaii did.

 

[FLASHWOK]

So Flash, Texas hasn't played a high octane offense you say...what top ranked defense has USC played against?

Washington surrenders over 33-ppg and 434-ypg
Hawaii surrenders over 37-ppg and 430-ypg
Arkansas surrenders over 30-ppg and 394-ypg
Arizona surrenders nearly 27-ppg and 380-ypg
Arizona State surrenders 30-ppg and 450-ypg
Notre Dame surrenders over 25-ppg and 425-ypg (over 300-ypg passing)
Oregon surrenders 24.5 ppg and 360-ypg.
None of those teams are in the top 25 in total defense. Rutgers ranks ahead of all those schools.

I notice yuo didn't factor OUT the USC offense from those teams defense...makes things pretty slanted doesn't it...and certainly doesn't give SC the same fair assessment I gave UT by subtracting their opponents below par games vs. UT and giving them their pre Texas offensive ranks. If you'd like to recalculate you will find those numbers much improved if you subtract USC's games vs. those teams.

kindly remove from...and recalculate...
..................Points.....YDS GAINED BY USC
Hawaii...........63...........518
Arkansas.......70...........736
Oregon.........45............593
Arizona St.....38............631
Arizona.........42............724
Notre Dame...34............476
Washington...51............390

kindly remove those numbers from each teams records...and recompute.



Texas defense is (per game) 7th in points allowed, 6th in total yards allowed, 24th in pass yards allowed, 11th in rush yards allowed.

against nobody. you still never refute the facts that Texas has not played an offensively good team yet.

Texas has played 2 good defensive teams, OSU and CU. Even OU is good defensively but their offense gives up points on turnovers.

so now we are counting points off turnovers and special teams eh? so would you care to remove the 28 points that USC has given up on special teams and an int return from their defensive PPG average? knock 4 pooints of USC's per game defense scoring average



Ohio State surrenders 14.6-ppg and 259-ypg, Texas put 25 and 385 past OSU in a hostile environment.

Texas put 23 past them. Ohio State took a deliberate safety, if you want to be factual.


Colorado surrenders 18-ppg19 PPG, not 18 and 334-ypg, Texas put 42 and 486 past CU.
Texas Tech surrenders 21.6-ppg and 332-ypg, Texas put 52 and 449 past TT. (Regardless of opponents Tech played, these stats still apply or NCAA would separate them)

nickel and dime it all you want...the fact that the NCAA still applies them doesn't change the fact that it was against 1AA opposition with 3 wins between the 3 teams. even you must be embarrassed to use those numbers, considering you know better.


Oklahoma surrenders 24.6-ppg and 301-ypg (77 rushing), Texas put 45 and 447 ypg (206 rushing).
La Lafeyette, Missouri, and Rice are crap defensively. I've always stated Tech was over-rated.

Let's talk opponents since you love to point this out.

Arizona's lone victory came against 2-5 Northern Arizona.

no arguement there...but they are better than Rice


Hawaii has beaten stellar San Jose State (1-6), Idaho (1-6), and New Mexico State (0-7).

no arguement there...but better than Louisiana-Laughingstock.


Washington wanted a victory, so they beat Idaho, their only win to date.

no arguement there.


Arkansas beat two small D-1 schools, La Monroe and Missouri State (who?).

and plays in the SEC, and had given 2 Top5 teams and one Top 20 team a very tough game. Also #4 in the nation in rushing yds p game.

Arizona State has a victory over 0-8 Temple, and beat a Northwestern team fresh off wins over Ohio and Northern Illinois (N'western's play of late makes this win look much prettier than it did 4 weeks ago).

two of their three losses came against two top 10 opponents by a total of 14 points. Their 3rd loss, to a 7-1 Top 20 Oregon team came the week after the crushing loss to USC. They are better then anyone else on Texas schedule.

Oregon has beaten Houston, Montana, Washington, ASU, and Arizona. A nice win over Fresno State helps, and Stanford ain't horrible, but not good either...average.

are 7-1, ranked in the Top 20, and tougher than anyone on Texas schedule.


And Notre Dame...before the USC game, you said their 4 wins came against weak opponents and that ND was over-rated. But now your tune will change to better your argument. Suddenly, USC's schedule doesn't looks so great, but will get a boost with Cal, Fresno State (barely hanging in the top 25), and UCLA.

nonsense. I don't need to change my tune...I stand by what I said and am unafraid to examine the facts, unlike you...since you never can refute the arguements I put forth in my posts. No matter how good or bad ND is, going to South Bend and winning is even more impressive than going into the Horseshoe. NOtre Dame put forth a herculean effort that day. If you'd like to factor in that the grass was deliberately grown over the tops of the players ankles...you may do so...or not.

La Lafeyette (2-5) and Rice (0-6) are shit, no doubt.

Ohio State is 5-2, wins over Iowa and Michigan State, loss to Penn State.

Ohio State as I have said, time and again are shit and have no offense whatsoever, yet still put up 22 on you.


Missouri 5-2 and has benefitted against a weaker Big XII and a couple of non-conference cupcakes.

they suck.

Texas Tech 6-1 and yes, we know they played cupcakes, save average Nebraska and Kansas State teams.

they suck

Oklahoma is 4-3 has lost to TCU and UCLA, both ranked, and haven't looked great against anyone other than Kansas State.

they suck and have no passing game and Peterson was gimpy when you played them.

Colorado 5-2 lost to Miami but beat 5-2 A&M and beat NM State like Hawaii did.

the same A&M squad that barely beat Baylor.

Colorado is the only half-decent team in the Big12 this year other than Texas. Everyone knows that this is one of the worst year's for the Big 12 ever.




doesn't change the fact that after all that, Texas' schedule is still shit, and they have played lightweights....there is nobody to test them upcoming either.

USC has three top wins against ranked opponents, all on the road, within 4 weeks...they have played five of their first seven games on the road (4 of the last 5) and without a by week which came right after their first game of the year vs. Hawaii. USC will play Cal, Fresno State, and UCLA all within their last 3 games.

Arizona State.. A
Oregon...........A
NOtre Dame.....A
Cal.................A
Fresno State....H
UCLA..............H


that schedule of teams(and all back to back with the exception of ND) is miles tougher than anything Texas will face.

 

[MrMarcello]

Hmmm...Auburn 9th strongest schedule in 2004. Oklahoma the 15th strongest. USC the 23rd strongest. In your view that strength of schedule determines how good a team is, then Auburn, Oklahoma, and Texas (12th), were better than USC last year, as USC hadn't played as many quality opponents.

That's not the case. USC did play OU and settled it on the field, proving a team can be much better than appears when playing an easy schedule. It's never a case of a top program having an edge over another top program by playing a tougher schedule.

As Texas will prove if they get the BCS #2. Of course, you should be more concerned with UCLA.

Also of interest is how this site has Texas 8th and USC 60th in strength of schedule.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Hmmm...Auburn 9th strongest schedule in 2004. Oklahoma the 15th strongest. USC the 23rd strongest. In your view that strength of schedule determines how good a team is, then Auburn, Oklahoma, and Texas (12th), were better than USC last year, as USC hadn't played as many quality opponents.

S.O.S is a very important component, Yes...no matter how you cut it. Oklahoma and Auburn had stronger S.O.S. last year, but Oklahoma was put past Auburn as well.

That's not the case. USC did play OU and settled it on the field, proving a team can be much better than appears when playing an easy schedule.

except the Big 12, which is a much slower conference than the Pac 10. Oklahoma was a great Big 12 team, but not a great national team...as was proved when they went out in the BSC two years in a row. Texas has simply ot faced speed yet. It's that simple.

It's never a case of a top program having an edge over another top program by playing a tougher schedule.

As Texas will prove if they get the BCS #2. Of course, you should be more concerned with UCLA.

I am much more concerned with UCLA...because we don't have a cupcake run to the Rose Bowl, unlike you guys.

Also of interest is how this site has Texas 8th and USC 60th in strength of schedule.

still doesn't change the facts. This years texas team is not near as good as last year's Oklahoma team, or 2003 Oklahoma...both of which were caught out when playing tougher, faster non Big 12 opponents.

 

[MrMarcello]

still doesn't change the facts. This years texas team is not near as good as last year's Oklahoma team, or 2003 Oklahoma...both of which were caught out when playing tougher, faster non Big 12 opponents.

Suddenly from Texas hasn't played no one this season to not as good as OU last year.

2005 Texas is better than 2004 Oklahoma Sooners. Anyone can see this. Well, except those that just choose to not see. Last season, OU squeeked by/held off Texas (12-0), Oklahoma State (38-35), Texas A&M (42-35), Kansas State (31-21), and Texas Tech (28-13). They blew by Colorado in the Big XII title game which awarded them a national title game slot, though Auburn had a very strong case too. Texas has beaten every team on schedule with ease, except for Ohio State on the road. No matter how you feel, there's no guarantee that USC beats Ohio State on the road, and if they did, there's no reason to believe Ohio State couldn't limit their offensive production and keep the game close. Considering they have a top defense, which USC hasn't faced this season (has a D even tried to get physical on them?).

BTW, Ohio State didn't "take" a safety...Texas tackled the QB. Texas turned the ball over on downs at the 1, after being denied a TD on 4th and goal (and replays clearly showed the ball crossed the plane). So, it should have been 30, but I'll settle for the win.

 

[mathiaslg]

Texas is better than the Oklahoma team from last year.

That being said, it has had a rather weak schedule (its two best opponents are vastly overrated).

 

[Jens]

can anyone rename this thread to "flashie v mm / usc v texas" ?

 

[FLASHWOK]

Suddenly from Texas hasn't played no one this season to not as good as OU last year.

pardon? I've said it before...this Texas squad isn't as good as last year's or 2003 Oklahoma squad. fact. Texas still hasn't played anyone this year...no matter how many times you try to say otherwise.

2005 Texas is better than 2004 Oklahoma Sooners.

sorry, no. Oklahoma's line last year was a bit better, White was a better pure QB than Young, though Young is a better athlete. Peterson was a better running back than anyone UT has this year. Oklahoma's receivers were a far better group. Oklahoma's D Line was about even, Oklahoma's LBs were better, and UT's secondary is better this year.


Anyone can see this.

suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure

Well, except those that just choose to not see. Last season, OU squeeked by/held off Texas (12-0),

more like completely overmatched and stuffed a "talented" Texas squad. to get shutout...that is just pathetic.


Oklahoma State (38-35), Texas A&M (42-35), Kansas State (31-21), and Texas Tech (28-13).

in each of those games, Oklahoma's poor secondary was completely exposed and destroyed, much like USC did to them. Texas couldn't do it though.


They blew by Colorado in the Big XII title game which vaulted them to #2. Texas has beaten every team on schedule with ease,

wow, all those tough teams? didn't beat the one "tough" opponent, Ohio State with ease at all. In fact, you can say if you think OSU is a tough, quality team, then the only tough quality team Texas has faced, they had had a major problem with and that was a team without an offense.

except for Ohio State on the road. No matter how you feel, there's no guarantee that USC beats Ohio State on the road, and if they did, there's no reason to believe Ohio State couldn't limit their offensive production and keep the game close.

USC beats Ohio State on the road no problem. Ohio State has no offense. USC's offense is far more versatile than UT's. USC has no problem in big games...unlike Texas.

BTW, Ohio State didn't "take" a safety...Texas tackled the QB. Texas turned the ball over on downs at the 1, after being denied a TD on 4th and goal (and replays clearly showed the ball crossed the plane). So, it should have been 30, but I'll settle for the win.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Marcello, UT is the team that has to prove something.

you can cut it any way you want, but untill UT beats USC, this USC team is better. it has a 29 game winning streak, 2 NC's, hasn't lost out of conference since 2002 (K State) has three BCS wins, two heisman trophy's in 3 years, soon to be 3 in 4 years.

the following players (12) will all be drafted in the NFL this year.

*-underclassmen

Justice*
Bush*
Leinart
White*
Byrd
Lutui
Smith*
Kirtman
Rucker
Bing*
Ware
Wyatt

5 likely in the first round.



UT can't match that....no matter how you try to angle the arguements.

 

[MrMarcello]

Let's see who Texas has draft ready...not bad for a team supposedly not good.

Player (pre-season ranking, pre-season All-American pick)

Young, Jr (will probably return; shortlisted for various awards)
Thomas, Sr (Top 5 TE by Lindy's and SN)
Scott, Sr (#2 OT by SN, #8 prospect by Lindy's, multiple All-American pick)
Blalock, Jr (#10 OT by Lindy's, All-American pick)
Allen, Sr (#8 OG by SN)
Wright, Sr (#2 DT, Top 15 prospect by Lindy's, shortlisted for various awards)
Dibbles, Jr (Top 15 DT by SN, NFL scouts think he could blossom in 2005)
Harris, Sr (#7 ILB by SN, shortlisted for Bednarik Award)
Griffin, Sr (#7 CB by SN)
Huff, Sr (#4 S by SN, All-America pick, shortlisted for Nagurski and Thorpe)

 

[FLASHWOK]

Let's see who Texas has draft ready...not bad for a team supposedly not good.

Marcello, you have a serious inferiority complex...I have consistently said Texas is a good squad...never have I said they aren't good or didn't have talent. my assertions are that USC is a better team then Texas, has a toguher schedule and is in a tougher conference this year...and that is true. period.

I will refer you back to this post you made, so you can tackle it.

https://www.redcafe.net/showpost.php?p=1589502&postcount=132





Player (pre-season ranking, pre-season All-American pick)

hmmmmmmmmmm yes, pre-season

Young, Jr (will probably return; shortlisted for various awards)
Thomas, Sr (Top 5 TE by Lindy's and SN)
Scott, Sr (#2 OT by SN, #8 prospect by Lindy's, multiple All-American pick)
Blalock, Jr (#10 OT by Lindy's, All-American pick)
Allen, Sr (#8 OG by SN)
Wright, Sr (#2 DT, Top 15 prospect by Lindy's, shortlisted for various awards)
Dibbles, Jr (Top 15 DT by SN, NFL scouts think he could blossom in 2005)
Harris, Sr (#7 ILB by SN, shortlisted for Bednarik Award)
Griffin, Sr (#7 CB by SN)
Huff, Sr (#4 S by SN, All-America pick, shortlisted for Nagurski and Thorpe)

-Young will leave. He's losing the best players on his line. The only reason he might stay is to solidify the fact he's a QB, as opposed to being drafted as a receiver or something, like Matt Jones.

- I will put AT THE VERY LEAST 5 Tight Ends ahead of Thomas...

Marcedes Lewis, UCLA
Leonard Pope, Georgia
Vernon Davis, Maryland
Dominique Byrd, USC
Tim Day, Oregon
Zach Miller, Arizona St (so)

-I agree on Scott, and ranked him accordingly in my head to head matchup
I'd still put him behind D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Eric Winston



-I agree on Blalock. As I have said and ranked him accordingly head to head.

but he is behind Scott, Ferguson, Winston, McNeill and Justice



-I'd put AT LEAST 8 OG's ahead of Allen.

Max Jean-Gilles, Georgia
Davin Joseph, Oklahoma
Taitusi Lutui, USC
Mark Setterstrom, Minnesota
Ryan O'Callahan, Cal
Matt Lentz, Michigan
Charles Spencer, Pitt
Jami Hightower, Texas AM
Kyle Ralph, North Carolina


-Rod Wright was disappointing last year, though he is a great player. he is still behind a few DT's I'd put ahead of him.

Haloti Ngata, Oregon
Jesse Mahelona, Tennessee
Claude Wroten, LSU


-Dibbles---he has a ways to go before he is even a top 15 DT.



-Harris---good player, usually overshadowed by Derrick Johnson when he was there...but not a top MLB yet...I'd put quite a few ahead of him

Ahmad Brooks, Virginia
D'Qwell Jackson, Maryland
Abdul Hodge, Iowa
Patrick Willis, Ole Miss
Freddie Roach, Alabama
Nick Reid, Kansas
Justin London, UCLA
A.J. Nicholson, Florida St.
Anthony Schlegel, Ohio St.


-Griffin, good player...maybe 5th or 6th best..these are all better

Jimmy Williams, Va Tech
Jason Allen, Tennessee
Charles Gordon, Kansas, Jr.
Devin Hester, Miami, Jr.
Will Blackmon, Boston College




-Huff - great player, But Bing and LaRon Landry are better than him.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Skip Bayless says it the best about UT-USC


By Skip Bayless
Page 2


The whys of Texas are upon me.

Why has the BCS formula suddenly decided Texas is slightly better than USC? The Trojans, who wield the most difficult to defend offense in NCAA history, would beat Texas by two touchdowns on a neutral field. Maybe three.

Once again, the BCS is no smarter than a Baloney and Cheese Sandwich.

Why have 10 voters of allegedly sound mind and body convinced themselves to cast their first-place votes in the Associated Press media poll for Texas? Is this the Bevo Channeling Society? Only the Longhorns' mascot -- a steer -- could have a brain small enough to deduce that Texas has proven to be superior to USC.

Thank goodness the Trojans received 55 other first-place votes this week, ensuring life as we know it will continue until the next poll.

But why in the name of "2001's" HAL did five of the six computer rankings that make up one-third of the BCS not have USC No. 1? The Trojans were second on two runaway computers, fourth on another and fifth on another.

Perhaps those who run the computers should plead the fifth or have another fifth. Yes, the Longhorns' first-place margin is only .0007 (what Timothy Dalton should have called himself when he turned James Bond into Hamlet).

But why do we keep hearing that Texas' schedule has been so much tougher than USC's? It is only in the eyes of Texas.

Yes, Ohio State in its Horseshoe was extremely tough. Yet Ohio State coach Jim Tressel blew that game more than Texas won it. Tressel appeared to be channeling Bevo by starting and finishing with quarterback Justin Zwick, even though Troy Smith led the Buckeyes on five scoring drives and built a 22-16 lead through three quarters. Zwick's late fumble clinched a 25-22 Texas win.

Ohio State couldn't recover from that loss in time to survive the dam -- or damn! -- that burst on the Buckeyes when they visited reborn Penn State. Yet Ohio State would give USC a better neutral-field test than Texas, because Ohio State has a better defense and better overall team speed than Texas.

So Texas blew away Oklahoma? Oklahoma without Adrian Peterson isn't much better than Oklahoma State.

So Texas knocked the heck out of Tech? Texas Tech just might have been the most overrated late-October top 10 team in NCAA history.

OK, mauling Colorado 42-17 in Austin was pretty impressive. So was Texas 51, Missouri 20 in Columbia. But let's remember that Big 12 fodder helped create an Oklahoma that was so overhyped that Vegas odds-makers made it a slight favorite over USC in last season's national title game.

A source close to USC coaches says they believed they "could have scored a 100" if they had wanted. They settled for 55-19.

So why haven't this year's Trojans received more poll credit for taking Oregon's best shot at Oregon, and Arizona State's best shot at Arizona State, and Notre Dame's best magic-green-jersey shot at Notre Dame, and throwing devastating counter punches?

All USC has done is lead the nation in points (49) and yards (581) a game, while producing three Heisman candidates. For two games, quarterback Matt Leinart and scatback Reggie Bush took backseats to power back Lendale White, who looks much faster than he did last season.

Come on, cut these kids a little slack. They're attempting to pull off something that hasn't been done in college football's "poll" era -- win three straight national championships. They're every opponent's bowl game, while all that really matters to the Trojans is playing in the bowl game -- January's national title game.

So they tend to pace themselves, to turn it off, then turn it way on. They know they need to save some rocket fuel for games against Washington State (which has scored 41 and 38 in its last two), at Cal (which is averaging 37.8 a game), Fresno State (43.8) and UCLA (44.4).

USC's schedule remains testy, while Texas' only potential trap remains at rival A&M's sound asylum. So obviously, if USC wins out, its strength of schedule will prevail over Texas'.

Won't it? With the Bowl Computer Saps, you never know.

Clearly, if Virginia Tech wins out, it should vault over Texas into the title game, right? At home, the Hokies have Boston College (tonight on ESPN), Miami and North Carolina, and Virginia away. They could play Florida State in the ACC title game, while Texas would be stuck with a Missouri or Colorado rematch in the Big 12 title game.

As Virginia Tech coach Frank Beamer said: "If you get through all those and the computer doesn't go ring-a-ding-ding ... "

What are the odds the Hokies go 12-0? Not as long as you might think. This is an extremely well-coached team with a tough, fast, deep defense and dynamite special teams. But like Texas, Virginia Tech's offense goes as its high-risk, high-reward quarterback goes.

Tech's Marcus Vick is the more dangerous breakaway runner. He isn't quite brother Michael, but he's close. But the Longhorns' Vince Young is a little better passer than Marcus (or Michael) -- and Young is the more dynamic leader.

The other day in Austin, Texas coach Mack Brown surprised me during a brief chat by summing up his team this way: "We are Vince."

If Young plays well, the Longhorns win. If he doesn't ...

Brown and his staff have done a phenomenal job of transforming Young from a sidearm slinger into an astonishingly accurate passer. He still has a funky flip of a delivery, but at 6-foot-5, he can see the field far better than Marcus (or Michael), and most of Young's passes this season have been spirals that found their mark.

Sometimes it's almost as though Young wills the ball to his receivers. This kid could wind up being the greatest competitor -- and winner -- this school has ever had. And when you're following in the orange footprints of Bobby Layne and James Street, that's saying something.

Yet Young still occasionally reverts to the Vince the Wince of the past two seasons. He got away with two interceptions at Ohio State. A seismic first-half interception against Oklahoma was canceled by a phantom off-the-ball pass interference penalty. Young threw two first-half interceptions and missed several open receivers against Texas Tech -- yet the Red Raiders were so overmatched it didn't matter.

And some draft experts project Young as a top-five pick if he leaves after this, his junior year? If I were running an NFL team, I wouldn't bet my salary cap on Young's long-term pocket passing. A quarterback's legs can take a pro team only so far.

Yes, Young's offensive line is a herd of Bevos -- but it isn't better than USC's. Young's freshman back, Jamaal Charles, is going to be a star -- but he's no Reggie Bush. Who is? Young has a nice stable of receivers -- but no 6-5 deep threat like USC's Dwayne Jarrett.

New Texas defensive coordinator Gene Chizik, who did an underpublicized job at Auburn last season, has brought savvy and attack-mode toughness to a Longhorns defense that too often has gone soft during Brown's tenure.

But is Chizik a better defensive game-planner than USC's coach Pete Carroll? No. When the Trojans have needed to bring the pass-rushing heat this season, they can bring it the way no team can. That pass rush can camouflage an ordinary secondary when it counts.

And that's why a USC-Texas title game would look something like when Michael Vick and Virginia Tech played Florida State for the 2000 championship. Vick made some holy-cow plays early -- as would Young. But Florida State slowly asserted its superiority and won, 46-29.

That's about what would happen to Texas against USC.

This year's Virginia Tech could keep it a little closer. Ohio State could keep it a lot closer.

Instead, enjoy this week's Baloney and Cheese Sandwich.

 

[MrMarcello]

Skip Bayless says it the best about UT-USC

By Skip Bayless
Page 2

That's his opinion, and he's entitled to it. Of course, he writes for San Jose Mercury News too, and might have a slight bias to USC, which happens to be south of San Jose. You did know this, right?

No one thought Ohio State would beat Miami. Same of New England against the Greatest Show on Turf. Or the Reds against the A's. The underdog sometimes prevails. Texas would be the underdog, and according to many pundits on ESPN, ABC, etc., would be about a 6 or 7 point underdog, which is not overwhelming odds.

BTW, I wouldn't take anything Skip states. He's, quite frankly, a tool. It is comical when he gets into debating with Stephen A Smith and is shown to be the fool he is. Skip is a bandwagon journalist. He was on the Boys bandwagon in the mid 90s, even authored a book about Dallas' 1995 season, which I own, not a bad read, but I do wonder how much is factual. He has hopped to many other teams, lately the Eagles. So it doesn't surprise me he's on the USC side of the fence.

He's debated over useless arguments about Lance Armstrong not being a better athlete than Ichiro, Randy Moss, Barry Bonds, Tiger Woods, etc. Which is rather stupid considering that it's impossible to compare athletes from various sports to find the greatest athlete in the world. Come on...he's even stated that Armstrong had never been "tested under" fire like Jack Nicklaus. Huh? A golfer? One that only has to hit a ball into a hole without exerting more than a second's worth of energy and in total silence? So maintaining a lead while cycling dozens of miles in the mountains of a foreign country doesn't qualify as "tested under fire?" Seriously now.

He's advocated on eliminating placekicking from football. He was the first journalist to put in an article the Troy Aikman "gay" rumor, which was obviously intended to bring his name to the limelight. When Tom Landry passed away, many journalists took time to honor the legendary coach. Not Skip. He took another few jibes at the coach, something he'd done for years. He even refuses to say the name of Oakland A's GM Billy Beane. You can figure out why. He has written for the Dallas Morning News, and trust me, people of Dallas-Fort Worth do not miss his eccentric, self-lovefest articles.

Here's one for you...
< Hank Goldberg, also an ESPNer, fielded a question from a fan who quoted Skip. Before the caller could finish, Goldberg stopped him and said, with a pained expression on his face, “buddy, don’t ever quote anything from Skip Bayless.” >

Skip is nothing but a journalist who brings up topics intended to create controversey and bring about bashing from fans. He's an antagonist. An agitator. Which is what the article you posted is for - to create some backlash, and have USC fans post it. I could probably find some article online that would favor UT.

And Jay Feeley wants a piece of him, after reading the article about kicker's are useless.

“I told him he should come down here, put on some pads, let me kick off to him and let me try to tackle him,” said Feely, who has two special-teams tackles and helped force a fumble against the Saints.

As far as I know, Skip has yet to respond.

 

[FLASHWOK]

That's his opinion, and he's entitled to it. Of course, he writes for San Jose Mercury News too, and might have a slight bias to USC, which happens to be south of San Jose. You did know this, right?

doesn't make him any less correct.

No one thought Ohio State would beat Miami. Same of New England against the Greatest Show on Turf. Or the Reds against the A's. The underdog sometimes prevails. Texas would be the underdog, and according to many pundits on ESPN, ABC, etc., would be about a 6 or 7 point underdog, which is not overwhelming odds.

thank you...you have just admitted what I have been saying all along...untill Texas proves it on the field vs. USC, the two time defending National Champion with a 29 game win streak and NFL ready offense, USC is considered a better team. which they are...clearly.

BTW, I wouldn't take anything Skip states. He's, quite frankly, a tool. It is comical when he gets into debating with Stephen A Smith and is shown to be the fool he is. Skip is a bandwagon journalist. He was on the Boys bandwagon in the mid 90s, even authored a book about Dallas' 1995 season, which I own, not a bad read, but I do wonder how much is factual. He has hopped to many other teams, lately the Eagles. So it doesn't surprise me he's on the USC side of the fence.

I enjoyed his work with the cowboys...and just because he is a bandwagoner does not mean he isn't correct.

He's debated over useless arguments about Lance Armstrong not being a better athlete than Ichiro, Randy Moss, Barry Bonds, Tiger Woods, etc. Which is rather stupid considering that it's impossible to compare athletes from various sports to find the greatest athlete in the world. Come on...he's even stated that Armstrong had never been "tested under" fire like Jack Nicklaus. Huh? A golfer? One that only has to hit a ball into a hole without exerting more than a second's worth of energy and in total silence? So maintaining a lead while cycling dozens of miles in the mountains of a foreign country doesn't qualify as "tested under fire?" Seriously now.

just because he gets in arguements about things like that because they offer him a big check to go on TV and do so doesn't mean anything. I don't agree with all sports writers on every topic...and would not agree with him on the Armstrong topic either,.

He's advocated on eliminating placekicking from football. He was the first journalist to put in an article the Troy Aikman "gay" rumor, which was obviously intended to bring his name to the limelight. When Tom Landry passed away, many journalists took time to honor the legendary coach. Not Skip. He took another few jibes at the coach, something he'd done for years. He even refuses to say the name of Oakland A's GM Billy Beane. You can figure out why. He has written for the Dallas Morning News, and trust me, people of Dallas-Fort Worth do not miss his eccentric, self-lovefest articles.

just because one is an asshole, does not mean he is always incorrect.


Here's one for you...
< Hank Goldberg, also an ESPNer, fielded a question from a fan who quoted Skip. Before the caller could finish, Goldberg stopped him and said, with a pained expression on his face, “buddy, don’t ever quote anything from Skip Bayless.” >

Skip is nothing but a journalist who brings up topics intended to create controversey and bring about bashing from fans. He's an antagonist. An agitator. Which is what the article you posted is for - to create some backlash, and have USC fans post it. I could probably find some article online that would favor UT.

probably...but that article wouldn't be true and wouldn't hold water


And Jay Feeley wants a piece of him, after reading the article about kicker's are useless.

“I told him he should come down here, put on some pads, let me kick off to him and let me try to tackle him,” said Feely, who has two special-teams tackles and helped force a fumble against the Saints.

As far as I know, Skip has yet to respond.

so what? That's what sportswriters do. Rome does it, Mike and The Mad Dog do it...Steven A Smith does it...

there are 4 of them doing it right now on around the horn...wilbon and kornheiser will do in 30 minutes

Wilbon said the same thing as Bayless about USC-UT...and Wilbon has much more integrity.

 

[MrMarcello]

probably...but that article wouldn't be true and wouldn't hold water

Interesting how your article is good, but an article that would lay out how and why UT would defeat USC wouldn't be...

Definitely no bias there.

I've been saying it will be settled on the field for 2 pages now, but you keep on. I'm done now.

 

[FLASHWOK]

Interesting how your article is good, but an article that would lay out how and why UT would defeat USC wouldn't be...

Definitely no bias there.

I've been saying it will be settled on the field for 2 pages now, but you keep on. I'm done now.

post the article about UT beating SC I'll read it.

and I've been saying for the last 2 pages, that untill the two meet on the field, USC is the better team as is both now, both last year and in 2003 and 2002

USC has nothing to prove...Texas does. You've got to beat SC on the field to prove it...and untill you do, we are the better team.

 

[MrMarcello]

post the article about UT beating texas I'll read it.

and I've been saying for the last 2 pages, that untill the two meet on the field, USC is the better team as is both now, both last year and in 2003 and 2002

USC has nothing to prove...Texas does. You've got to beat SC on the field to prove it...and untill you do, we are the better team.

Flash, it has never been about Texas being the better team. It's been about you saying Texas schedule hasn't proven they can play. You have based everything on schedule and top NFL prospects, which doesn't win championships alone. Otherwise, Ohio State would have won 2-4 titles in the 90s and Miami would have won 4 straight to date. And ever year, Notre Dame plays a tough schedule, but they haven't won a national title since 1988.

Texas is winning the games as scheduled and winning them big. The schedule isn't as strong this year, but way ahead of USC's in one link and very close ahead/behind in other links. So, as of today, your claims about USC playing better offenses can be countered by Texas playing better defenses. You counter with the offensive numbers put up by USC against the team that inflated their defensive stats. I can counter by showing that Texas limited opposing offenses, reducing their overall offensive numbers. And that Texas' offense raised the opposing defensive numbers.

But it's useless either way, as it can only be settled on the field. And hopefully it will.

 

[MrMarcello]

A Penn State journalist favouring Texas. Longhorns the 'right choice' at No. 1 spot

An article on the point spread being set for a potential USC-Texas matchup.

Sharps, oddsmaker favor USC over Texas

Also found this, which is why strength of schedule isn't in the BCS formula.
<USC was undone in 2003 because the polls were then averaged together, instead of calculated by percentage of votes. Back then there was also a schedule strength component and quality win component. Both of those were eliminated, in part, because of what happened to USC two years ago.>

 

[FLASHWOK]

Flash, it has never been about Texas being the better team.

yes, it has, because that's all I've said. I've never said they can't play, in fact I think they are very good and I've said it a thousand times.


It's been about you saying Texas schedule hasn't proven they can play.

which is true. They have had only one game that was truly a test...Ohio State, which had no offense. They will not be tested again to the bowl game, and BECAUSE of that very schedule, they may in fact get left out, if Va Tech runs the table and USC does too. How will you feel then if that happens?

They are a good team, who has a schedule that never gives the ma chance to see how good they are.



You have based everything on schedule and top NFL prospects, which doesn't win championships alone. Otherwise, Ohio State would have won 2-4 titles in the 90s and Miami would have won 4 straight to date.

On the contrary, I have based everything on schedule(tests), on top NFL prospects (talent level), style of offense, syle of defense, playmaking abilities, turnover issues, overreliance on certain players, home games and away games, the offensive lines, the receiving corps, the Qb's the running backs, the Linebackers. dealing with adversity, tests in close games, big game experience, coaching, depth etc.

And ever year, Notre Dame plays a tough schedule, but they haven't won a national title since 1988.

and why is that? they haven't had the coaching, the talent, the recruiting, the schemes the schedule etc. etc.

Texas is winning the games as scheduled and winning them big.

so? BYU won in 1984. Oklahoma won big in 2004 and 2003 against a better Big 12.

The schedule isn't as strong this year, but way ahead of USC's in one link and very close ahead/behind in other links.

there is nobody on this earth who isn't a lunatic who believes that Texas' schedule is anywhere near as tough as USC's...and by the time the schedule is over it will be obvious.


So, as of today, your claims about USC playing better offenses can be countered by Texas playing better defenses.

you didn't ever factor out the USC offenses from the defensive rankings that I asked you to...which would be only fair, considered I gave Texas the benefit of th doubt. not to mention that the defensive rankings against which Texas achieved their rankings come most notably from playing in an offensively weak conference. Despite USC playing in a seriously offensive conference it has been at or near the top against the run since 2002.


You counter with the offensive numbers put up by USC against the team that inflated their defensive stats.

on the contrary Marcello, this is your problem...I have removed Texas's deflation of other teams offenses, so you can see them before they faced Texas...you have not given USC the same benefit, leaving in 70 point games and 720 yard performances by USC in the averages of the defenses they have played.

I can counter by showing that Texas limited opposing offenses, reducing their overall offensive numbers. And that Texas' offense raised the opposing defensive numbers.



But it's useless either way, as it can only be settled on the field. And hopefully it will.

and untill it is, USC, the two time back to back defending national champions, with a 29 game win-streak is the better team in the opinion of most humans...just check the polls.

you are in the clear minority of people who think that Texas is on a par or better than USC.


the fact is that USC has played plenty of teams with quality like this Texas team on offense and defense...a good team with lots of talent and above average speed. But Texas, Like Oklahoma last year, is Big 12 fast...not USC fast. USC simply has more athletes.

Texas has played one team with a defense better than ours, but Texas hasn't played a FASTER defense than ours... Texas' defense has never played an offense like ours...and has never had to defend against an Offensive line that is not just big, but fast and athletic, blocking for Bush and White, while still having to stop a passing attack featuring Leinart, Smith jarret and Byrd.

SC doesn't have to leave California for the rest of the season, which is a huge load off the players. The highly touted freshman that we recruited are starting to come on strong and play (6 of them on defense) and will see major time over the next few weeks. Our freshman wide receiver patrick Turner is being eased into the offense for 3 wide receiver sets...he is 6'5 220 and does a 4.45 40...he has Mike Williams skills...and when you combine him with Smith and Jarrett, teams are going to have major problems with them

Washington was the first time this season, that Carroll finally ordered the OC's to go back to "Chow Ball", the short passing game that we abandoned in favor of a vertical attack, that allowed teams to take shots at Leinart while he took 5 step drops and waited for receivers to come open on deep routes when defenses were specifically playing the long pass.

he is back to 3 step drops and doing what Chow used to do...we have 5 more games, 3 against tough competition, to get better and improve, for freshman to make an impact etc. we will be tested and tested and tested again...you will not be tested more than once this whole season...so how good will you know you are? Everyone always knows how good USC is. We all know Texas is good, but how good? Chances are, you won't find out till your bowl game...I hope it's against us...because you are going to be very sad when you find out just how good you really are compared to USC>

when was the last time UT played a team that could move the ball and flat out run with team speed like this USC team?


Oklahoma laughed at us last year. they laughed at our small DB's, they laughed at our undersized LBs, they laughed at our small DT's...they laughed at our "finesse" offensive line and weren't afraid of Lendale or Leinart...just Reggie.

we dominated them with pure speed, perfect play with no turnovers, and destroyed their heralded offensive line and stuffed their "great" D-Line with our young, inexperienced "finesse" line.


do you know what the difference was? I'll give you a hint...

"All the tapes we saw of Oklahoma last year, they were playing aginst these big slow guys...from the first time we saw them on tape, we knew we had them."

-USC Tight End Alex Holems.

(does the conference that Oklahoma played in sound similar to that description of big, slow guys?)

Big 12 "power football" "Sooner football" "Horns Football" ---big strong line play and running. power on power and nothing more....you said in an earlier post that USC finally won an NC from the PAC10 because they learned to play defense...true...but how do you think Oklahoma won an NC and got to two more BCS games? Because they learned how to pass, in a running conference.

 

[FLASHWOK]

A Penn State journalist favouring Texas. Longhorns the 'right choice' at No. 1 spot

The Daily Collegian? This "kid" makes no reference to the fact ANYWHERE what everyone knows about Tech and how overrated and ridiculous they were in part because of their laughable scheduling. Did this kid even watch a USC game other than ND?

he said we have games against two ranked teams coming up, not the correct three which we have.

as for Texas' "more impressive" wins...vs. TTECH@ home (we have discussed Tech overratedness ad nauseum, as well as VY's tendency for turnovers) was certainly not nearly a chore compared to ASU on the road (with a concussed Qb, nonetheless...and comeback from an 18 point deficit. he obviously did not watch the game, when we stormed down the field on our first two possesions, first drive to the 10 yd line wiped out on a crap call, second with a completely late and unacceptable hit on Leinart, to knock him from the game.) Not to mention we held them to only 52 yards in the 1st qtr. They had one good quarter (2nd) where they scored twice and had a punt return TD.

Texas home vs. Colorado 42 -17. 482 yards of offense to 237 yds offense. USC vs. Oregon...45-13. how is that less impressive, having a bad first 20 minutes, going down 13-0 on a fluke punt bouncing off our blockers foot and being recovered on our 30 yard line after having stoed Oregon's offense on their first series. we went down 7-0. Then, Jarrett alone in the end zone let a td pass bounce right through his hands, which ricchcheted to the out of position oregon corner 5 yards behind him. they marched down the field 30 yards and got a field goal. we held them to another field goal. then with 10 minutes left in the first half scored 10 poitns on two long susttained drives.
In the second half we came out and outscored them 35-0.

Texas-Ohio State. Going into Columbus, is no more difficult than going nito South Bend. Did tressel grow the grass to slow Texas down? Didn't think so.

as for Texas' other "convincing" wins, tell me how they are better than USC's "convincing" wins.

if you want to post an intelligent Texas' supporters article or claims, please do so, and I will read them, but some ignorant kid from Penn State's student newspaper who probably didn't watch your games any more than he watched ours is clearly a poor choice.




An article on the point spread being set for a potential USC-Texas matchup.

Sharps, oddsmaker favor USC over Texas

so? pretty much what I've said all along. USC is the better team...I disagree with their line though. I'd put it higher at about 12 points.

Also found this, which is why strength of schedule isn't in the BCS formula.
<USC was undone in 2003 because the polls were then averaged together, instead of calculated by percentage of votes. Back then there was also a schedule strength component and quality win component. Both of those were eliminated, in part, because of what happened to USC two years ago.>

irrespective...human pollsters are able enough to come up with their own strength of schedule component.