Club Sale | It’s done!

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Sparky Rhiwabon said:
How is he planning to put the Manchester back into Manchester United?
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DomesticTadpole said:
Move us to Monaco. That was such a weird thing for him to say. What exactly did he mean?
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He has a five point plan
  1. Shaun Ryder, Morrissey and Ian Brown will take it in turns to walk the team out each week.
  2. All supporters attending the games will be encouraged to dress like they’ve just walked out of a Lowry painting.
  3. Playing staff names will be homogenised, everyone will now be called “‘r kid”.
  4. Club kit will be revolutionised with players now wearing a parka instead of a t-shirt like those southern pansies. It’s cold and wet up here.
  5. Senior people at the club from Ten Hag upwards will be encouraged to wear flat caps and take up an interest in pigeon husbandry.
 
MiamiSpartan said:
Mostly because their PR has said they'll blow other bids out of the water, and have talked about putting in another 2+ billion after purchase, but yet have continually lowballed their bid for the club.
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You interpreting media reports as “their PR” is on you, not on them. Unless, you can categorically track those reports to Jassim/his team.

Again, investing +£2B on something you own (after purchasing the club) is completely different to paying over the odds to own the asset initially. Lowballed? By most reports their offer is a world record bid for a sporting institution, no? It’s a great offer for a club that is a declining force and that will need major investment to restore

The notion that they aren’t serious is comical, as is the notion that they should pay ridiculous sums/whatever it takes to own the club if they are.
 
Plant0x84 said:
What I don’t understand is how most are so cautious and unsure of the INEOS bid, and mistrusting and questioning everything about it (rightly so) but are so totally convinced that everything will be amazing under the Qatar bid and are in no way suspicious, inquisitive or weary of a group we know nothing about. Why aren’t more questions being asked?
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More money, fear of the Qatari's buying Liverpool and no proposed Glazer involvement. I think it's clear that the Qatari's owner at PSG haven't been as successful as they'd hope but I suppose the domestic dominance has been clear to see but the money they've spend in comparison to other clubs is big that it's to be expected. Since they took over they have a net spend of around 1bn euros. The highest net spend after that is Marseille with a net spend of 170m euros.
 
Chief123 said:
In all honesty, even though I’m pro Qatar bid, it’s not because I want some rich Arab to come and buy us Mbappe. It’s simply because the Qatar financial model gives more hope and light for the future. Even if it’s not on lavish signings. At least there’s no restrictions or limitations with regards to upgrading the infrastructure, stadium, training ground etc and not being burdened with debt when it comes to every aspect of the club.

Yes we know SJR has declared he will take the debt off Utd and onto INEOs. However, debt is still debt whichever entity it’s attached to. Ultimately it’s the same wallet and same people. If the acquisition of the club is going to be under debt, then no doubt any investment into stadium etc is going to be under debt too. I just don’t see how one party which is exercising every expenditure with massive debt already on the books is able to invest as freely as a party which is debt free and has no limitations in spending power. People can argue ineos has huge turnover and profits, but that doesn’t reflect through to the proposal being put forward to buy the club. If the club was being acquired debt free, I’d be fully behind whichever of the two parties won. But the proposal just doesn’t sound that great with regards to a prosperous future.
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Even in your answer you only write about positives as you see them with the Qatar bid.
  • What about the fact that Jassim has seemingly come out of nowhere?
  • What about the fact that just a few months ago the 9/2 foundation didn’t exist?
  • What about the fact that his delegation at OT was all bankers and business men, not a sports expert in sight?
  • What about his links to the state?
  • What about the suggestions that ex-players might be offered prominent controlling positions?
  • What about his total lack of experience in sport, let alone football?
  • Where is the money coming from?
  • What’s in the bid for Jassim?
  • What return is he looking for?
I could go on, and that’s just practical club related issues. That’s even without all the moral, ethical and political questions raised by the bid. Nobody is questioning this thing and it seems insane when we could very easily jump like lemmings out of the Glazer frying pan into a Qatari fire.
 
Berbaclass said:
Yes I agree. If Ratcliffe takes over then Qatar probably weren't really serious.
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They weren't serious because they didn't want to overpay? They were just outsmarted by Jim. They went for whole club but Jim offered Glazers something which they like more; money and to stay as shareholders.
I am not happy with outcome (if Jim's offer wins) but i must admit that Jim played it perfectly.

I wonder what will all those "we want full sale" fans say about this?
 
Plant0x84 said:
Even in your answer you only write about positives as you see them with the Qatar bid.
  • What about the fact that Jassim has seemingly come out of nowhere?
  • What about the fact that just a few months ago the 9/2 foundation didn’t exist?
  • What about the fact that his delegation at OT was all bankers and business men, not a sports expert in sight?
  • What about his links to the state?
  • What about the suggestions that ex-players might be offered prominent controlling positions?
  • What about his total lack of experience in sport, let alone football?
  • Where is the money coming from?
  • What’s in the bid for Jassim?
  • What return is he looking for?
I could go on, and that’s just practical club related issues. That’s even without all the moral, ethical and political questions raised by the bid. Nobody is questioning this thing and it seems insane when we could very easily jump like lemmings out of the Glazer frying pan into a Qatari fire.
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I still don't care much about who is going to win between INEOS and Jassim but some of these questions are weird.

What do you mean by came out of nowhere, where was he or anyone is supposed to come from? And why would you bring sports experts when you are invited to look at the financials of an organization before a potential takeover?

Do you think that you are going to bring a mechanics if you intend to purchase GM and is given access to their finances?
 
BuzzKillington said:
He has a five point plan
  1. Shaun Ryder, Morrissey and Ian Brown will take it in turns to walk the team out each week.
  2. All supporters attending the games will be encouraged to dress like they’ve just walked out of a Lowry painting.
  3. Playing staff names will be homogenised, everyone will now be called “‘r kid”.
  4. Club kit will be revolutionised with players now wearing a parka instead of a t-shirt like those southern pansies. It’s cold and wet up here.
  5. Senior people at the club from Ten Hag upwards will be encouraged to wear flat caps and take up an interest in pigeon husbandry.
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0_Erik-ten-Hag-48.jpg

It’s already beginning! :nervous:
 
Giggsyking said:
You would read posts from the superior fans defending Jimmy boy trying to convince everyone how Brexit is working and everyone else knows nothing while we are swimming in mediocrity in 6th-7th place.

Since day one we were against the Glazers and there is nothing preventing the fans to do the same with Jimmy.
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It's already happening.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Even in your answer you only write about positives as you see them with the Qatar bid.
  • What about the fact that Jassim has seemingly come out of nowhere?
  • What about the fact that just a few months ago the 9/2 foundation didn’t exist?
  • What about the fact that his delegation at OT was all bankers and business men, not a sports expert in sight?
  • What about his links to the state?
  • What about the suggestions that ex-players might be offered prominent controlling positions?
  • What about his total lack of experience in sport, let alone football?
  • Where is the money coming from?
  • What’s in the bid for Jassim?
  • What return is he looking for?
I could go on, and that’s just practical club related issues. That’s even without all the moral, ethical and political questions raised by the bid. Nobody is questioning this thing and it seems insane when we could very easily jump like lemmings out of the Glazer frying pan into a Qatari fire.
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Have you asked some of those questions about Ratcliffe?

I am very interested in particular in:
  • What’s in the bid for Ratcliffe
  • What return is he looking for?
 
Valencia's Left Foot said:
Qatar is going to buy Liverpool and do and spend everything it can to kick United’s ass just to embarrass ratcliffe and the glazers. Its gonna be fun watching City and Pool dominate the league and compete for champions league titles while we continue to struggle to make the top 4. Oh well, at least we still have our dignity…dignity is fun…hooray dignity.
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saivet said:
More money, fear of the Qatari's buying Liverpool and no proposed Glazer involvement. I think it's clear that the Qatari's owner at PSG haven't been as successful as they'd hope but I suppose the domestic dominance has been clear to see but the money they've spend in comparison to other clubs is big that it's to be expected. Since they took over they have a net spend of around 1bn euros. The highest net spend after that is Marseille with a net spend of 170m euros.
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Out of interest is this the same Qatar that has made no attempt to ever by Liverpool despite them being available to buy in 2010 and potentially available in 2022?
 
cheekybackheel said:
Actually im a very positive person, always have been. I've dealt with a lot of crap in life and career so try to be upbeat despite that.

And as for a 'fantasy I dreamed up' you couldn't be further from the truth. In my previous job I was a Profiler for over 30yrs, worked for governments, military and business. I put together briefs for various corporations around the world on human behaviour. When you've done it as long as I have you can see patterns and predict actions.

What's your experience?
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So you have the entirety of SJR mapped out on the back of a few online snippets and media half truths... Aye ok.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Are those rhetorical questions? Why does any non nation state buy a football club? Because they think they can make money out of it.
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Which brings a small problem. Most Ratcliffe supporters claim that it's not the case.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
They weren't serious because they didn't want to overpay? They were just outsmarted by Jim. They went for whole club but Jim offered Glazers something which they like more; money and to stay as shareholders.
I am not happy with outcome (if Jim's offer wins) but i must admit that Jim played it perfectly.

I wonder what will all those "we want full sale" fans say about this?
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You’re seeing it, they’re just being dismissed as fans wanting Mbappe and being told Glazers staying isn’t that bad, they’re only mad because they want Qatari money while pretending 20 years of protests doesn’t exist
 
Plant0x84 said:
Even in your answer you only write about positives as you see them with the Qatar bid.
  • What about the fact that Jassim has seemingly come out of nowhere?
  • What about the fact that just a few months ago the 9/2 foundation didn’t exist?
  • What about the fact that his delegation at OT was all bankers and business men, not a sports expert in sight?
  • What about his links to the state?
  • What about the suggestions that ex-players might be offered prominent controlling positions?
  • What about his total lack of experience in sport, let alone football?
  • Where is the money coming from?
  • What’s in the bid for Jassim?
  • What return is he looking for?
I could go on, and that’s just practical club related issues. That’s even without all the moral, ethical and political questions raised by the bid. Nobody is questioning this thing and it seems insane when we could very easily jump like lemmings out of the Glazer frying pan into a Qatari fire.
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Wasn’t it revealed in here that the 92 foundation existed around two years ago?
 
I dunno. Wasn't Jassim a hardcore United fan? Why would he buy the biggest rival to beat his own favourite team? Makes no sense. But perhaps... he buys Liverpool and then buys Maguire and Wout for a billion dollars and then all of a sudden they play in the Championship :P Thats a win as well.
 
JPRouve said:
I still don't care much about who is going to win between INEOS and Jassim but some of these questions are weird.

What do you mean by came out of nowhere, where was he or anyone is supposed to come from? And why would you bring sports experts when you are invited to look at the financials of an organization before a potential takeover?

Do you think that you are going to bring a mechanics if you intend to purchase GM and is given access to their finances?
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Your example is nonsensical.
A constant criticism of the Glazers and Woodward is that they are businessmen and not football men. INEOS is criticised for using Dave Brailsford at their football clubs because he is a ‘bike man’ not a football man. So why wouldn’t they include a sporting figure - this is an investment into a sporting institution after all. They must have some idea for the sporting project other than just sign big names and throw money at it?
Indeed, INEOS did take Brailsford to the OT/Carrington visit, presumably so he could cast an expert eye and advise what would be required.
 
cyberman said:
Wasn’t it revealed in here that the 92 foundation existed around two years ago?
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Does it actually matter when it is created? From a practical and legal standpoint, the important part is that United is handed to a non-profit organization, when that organization is created is only important if you want to create narratives that have no actual importance for United.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Even in your answer you only write about positives as you see them with the Qatar bid.
  • What about the fact that Jassim has seemingly come out of nowhere?
  • What about the fact that just a few months ago the 9/2 foundation didn’t exist?
  • What about the fact that his delegation at OT was all bankers and business men, not a sports expert in sight?
  • What about his links to the state?
  • What about the suggestions that ex-players might be offered prominent controlling positions?
  • What about his total lack of experience in sport, let alone football?
  • Where is the money coming from?
  • What’s in the bid for Jassim?
  • What return is he looking for?
I could go on, and that’s just practical club related issues. That’s even without all the moral, ethical and political questions raised by the bid. Nobody is questioning this thing and it seems insane when we could very easily jump like lemmings out of the Glazer frying pan into a Qatari fire.
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These are all questions that aren’t unique to Sheikh Jassim though. These are questions that should be asked of any owner. Of course there are many unknowns with the Jassim bid. But right now, the only thing we have to go on is the knowns for both parties. And basing it just on what we know of both parties, the SJR financial model is a much worse than the debt free, complete buy out model. We can sit and argue whatifs about both parties all day. There’s a lot we don’t know about both parties and we won’t know properly until they takeover. But we can make judgements based on what is being put on the table.
 
cyberman said:
You’re seeing it, they’re just being dismissed as fans wanting Mbappe and being told Glazers staying isn’t that bad, they’re only mad because they want Qatari money while pretending 20 years of protests doesn’t exist
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It never ceases to amaze me how fans are called the “most important” part of football but are always dismissed whenever their views don’t conform to what the media want.

First it was “it’s only online fans that want Qatar” then when the OT protests clearly stated “full sale only” and I think one or two Qatar placards were seen they too were dismissed
 
Pexbo said:
Have you asked some of those questions about Ratcliffe?

I am very interested in particular in:
  • What’s in the bid for Ratcliffe
  • What return is he looking for?
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It’s been posted many times, including footage of the man himself (admittedly talking about Chelsea but it’s relevant).
He doesn’t want to make money from an investment in a football club, he’s looking to build a legacy for himself. It’s a challenge of running the club really well, putting the club back at the top of European football and winning the biggest prizes. It’s a sporting project he is interested in, not a business venture. The return is how he is remembered in the future.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Your example is nonsensical.
A constant criticism of the Glazers and Woodward is that they are businessmen and not football men. INEOS is criticised for using Dave Brailsford at their football clubs because he is a ‘bike man’ not a football man. So why wouldn’t they include a sporting figure - this is an investment into a sporting institution after all. They must have some idea for the sporting project other than just sign big names and throw money at it?
Indeed, INEOS did take Brailsford to the OT/Carrington visit, presumably so he could cast an expert eye and advise what would be required.
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What are you even talking about? Why would they bring a sport expert when the meeting was to review financial documents and talk about numbers regarding a takeover?

The fact that Brailsford was around should lead to questions and not good ones.
 
JPRouve said:
Which brings a small problem. Most Ratcliffe supporters claim that it's not the case.
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Whilst I do not disagree with Ratcliffe believing money can be made, I believe there is a pride, arrogance, ambition ??? not sure which is the best fit, but basically Ratcliffe is a super successful business alpha, he will see this as a challenge that he and only he can best, a way of demonstrating how great he is.
 
But on the bright side just a few days or week ago we all thought Qatar had won. Maybe the Jim Ratcliffe story is also just people not knowing still publishing for clicks to get their monthly pay
 
So we still have all fans despising Glaziers, SJR fans giving it to SJ fans whilst soon Liverpool will be giving it to both when Qatar move their interest to them. Have I missed anything ?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Are those rhetorical questions? Why does any non nation state buy a football club? Because they think they can make money out of it.
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It wasn’t rhetorical, I assumed that much was obvious and I just hoped for a bit of detail in the answer.
  1. United have been haemorrhaging money for the last decade.
  2. Dividends are minuscule compared to the required investment.
  3. The club needs about £1.5bn spending on infrastructure.
  4. Football wise we are eons behind our competition and need major investment in the squad.
  5. We have a huge amount of debt already.
  6. Debt is really fecking expensive right now
Where does Ratcliffe/INEOS see profit in this club?
 
Zed 101 said:
Whilst I do not disagree with Ratcliffe believing money can be made, I believe there is a pride, arrogance, ambition ??? not sure which is the best fit, but basically Ratcliffe is a super successful business alpha, he will see this as a challenge that he and only he can best, a way of demonstrating how great he is.
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To be clear I said nothing about Ratcliffe motivations in that post but your response is perfect and applies to every bidders. They can all have reasons that are beyond money or even Football.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
They weren't serious because they didn't want to overpay? They were just outsmarted by Jim. They went for whole club but Jim offered Glazers something which they like more; money and to stay as shareholders.
I am not happy with outcome (if Jim's offer wins) but i must admit that Jim played it perfectly.

I wonder what will all those "we want full sale" fans say about this?
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If Qatar seriously wanted the club they would pay more. That’s all I’m saying.

Personally I would prefer Qatar but if it’s Ratcliffe all joking aside I’m fine with it.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Do they? I haven’t seen any posts claiming that but will take your word for it. It’s a strange thing to get hung up on anyway. Nobody would spend that sort of money without expecting a return.
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You haven't seen people suggest that his goal wasn't to make money out of United, that he had no intention to take dividends and would finance the debt himself through INEOS? That's a core point used in favor of INEOS.
 
I really don’t share the same fear as most with SJR buying controlling shares of the club only, he saw an opening with the two Goblins and quickly realised this was the only way to beat SJ bid by offering more for 51%. I also think it was his only move he could play as long as gets the two Goblins out in 3 years as proposed, it’s a half win which is currently better than no win and all 6 staying. His company turns over $60bn and makes a €3bn net profit, although a lot of his cash is tied up, his assets are huge and if he takes the Debt and Dividends away, the club can easily finance itself, he must produce a clear mandate with his number 1 promise being Ineos will absorb the club debt and make the club debt free, then he has to assure all the fans that no dividends will be taken out of the club until, it’s making a profit and wins the EPL or the CL.


If he takes over and I’m still in the camp that this could be a huge smokescreen to ask Qatar for more money , somewhere in the £5.5bn to £5.8bn range.

I think he needs to have a huge summer transfer window. He will be judged by how he changes the financial fortunes of the club off the field but with out on field success you don’t make money off the field. We as united fans simply need to support whoever takes over and at least give them the chance to show us their vision for the club before we judge the new owner just because he had to make a short term deal with the Devil.
 
JPRouve said:
You haven't seen people suggest that his goal wasn't to make money out of United, that he had no intention to take dividends and would finance the debt himself through INEOS? That's a core point used in favor of INEOS.
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I haven’t seen any posts saying he would run the club as a non-profit, no. However he chooses to finance the debt, he can still earn plenty of money from owning the club.
 
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