Yeah they don't have any intention of going up,so it's starting to look like Ratcliffe minority offer or nothing which is sickening
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Yeah they don't have any intention of going up,so it's starting to look like Ratcliffe minority offer or nothing which is sickening
That’s the thing, he does care. That’s why he changed the original bid of allowing Glazers to stay on after taking over. He must know it’s a PR nightmare since it was first time round
Unfortunately it sounds like those leeches don't see it as fair so we remain in limbo. Hard to ever trust Ratcliffe when he hasn't ever talked about the clearing the debt along with proposing keeping the Glazers as well
The 25 percent has to be invested into the club, all of it, it cannot be going into the Glazers pockets surely, that's obviously not investment, I'd be surprised if they don't take the Qatar offer, its just greed that's delaying things.
For the last time the Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% share of class B shares and to relinquish control, the remaining 31% would cost another £1.2/1.4 billion that’s why this makes no sense.
Literally every outlet has now backtracked and stated the six Glazer siblings want £6 billion to relinquish control of the club and therefore sell to a new owner. The Glazers or the Raine group can not value the minority Class A shares as they are made of multiple hedge funds who invested at a different entry point and may want a different exit price for their shares from other minority share holders, the Glazers do not have any control at what price Lindsell train and other hedge funds value their shares at. I hope this finally clears this subject up, as the media don’t have a clue?
I concur, this doesn’t make any sense whatsoever his offer really doesn’t suit anyone and I include Joel and Avram, if they accept it’s high risk based on the current on the field performance by the team, they themselves have shown no ability or consistency to run an elite PL football team, if they stay in charge with very little investment and worse they would have to use some of their own money with at least £30m each year for the next three years to combat FSP/FFP, something they have never done in the past and they will never do this in the future.
How the debt is cleared is a big question.
If the Glazers sold for 5bn 6 months ago, they'd have made 150m off interest by now (assuming a 6% money market rate).
And I'm sure the Glazers can find a way to make their money work harder.
Just stupid not to take the cash and run.
And I'm sure the Glazers can find a way to make their money work harder.
Just stupid not to take the cash and run.
I was at St. James Park last night through work and the energy there was something I’ve never seen, you could see the fans got their club back.
I’m just praying we can have that feeling again one day…. Sadly I think it’s going to be a long, long time until we do.
I’m just praying we can have that feeling again one day…. Sadly I think it’s going to be a long, long time until we do.
Suprise-suprise Jim Brexit is backstabbing the gullible united supporters just like he backstabbed the gullible brexiters, once a rat will always be a rat.I honestly think its been the plan all along, they just cant accept it right away due to fear of getting sued so they keep delay delay delay till the qataris got tired and pull the deal off.
THEY LOOK LIKE SIBLINGS!
They probably are, the cnuts
Not the way it works. They are essentially selling equity.
Unless the club is sold in its entirety, we can forget about any investment in the football club. With SJR bid, we are looking at 3-4 years of no major changes ( same transfer budget and management) and no investment in stadium . We run the risk of becoming bit irrelevant in terms of “big club” discussion at this rate
Link to that please, because to my knowledge, that has not been reported anywhere.
Today's market cap is $3.1b at $19 per share. If what you are saying is true, then it would mean they are asking circa $60 a share, which if The Glazers are getting, the Class A shareholders will want too.
You explained the same thing......
and here....
This is exactly why Jim bid for the 69% owned by the Glazers...
Manchester United takeover: Sir Jim Ratcliffe bids for 69 per cent of club as Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani attends Old Trafford games | Football News | Sky Sports
Semantics. If that is what you are going of, then you are wrong. That just means that they value the entire club at 6billion, not just their 69%. The journalists using "control of the club" loosely.
Why else would Jim bid for 69% and Jassim 100%?
This makes a lot of sense. If this value of £6 was the valuation of 100 percent of the shares placed by the Glazers and Jassim has been sat with a £5b offer for a while it would be inconceivable that they wouldn't have met in the middle by now so it must be that the Glazers are genuinely asking for £6b for their shares alone. It's a crazy situation. Do they not understand that the gradual decline of the club under their ownership is not exactly enhancing the brand. Nothing of international note has been won for a long time and this global fanbase must be dwindling. I really see no reason why some 12 year old kid in Asia is going to be begging for a United kit these days.
Not difficult (in fact, very easy) when they are the opposite of the skintflints and Scrooge McDuck wannabes we have as owners now.
I just don't get why Qatar hasn't already paid the asking price, they have the money and surely they must despise the idea of being outdone by the Saudis.
The first part of what you said is also what the Bloomberg journalist David Hellier said. He exclaimed that he "surprised" they have just raised the near the £6 billion in order to secure the transaction. As of last week, he still believes that will be the case.
Gofundme. We can all chip in a bit. Make it a family tradition to contribute through the next 5 generations.
Because its not like there is a price sticker on the club. Raine would have told the potential bidders of an indicative price. What if Jassim then meets that 'indicative price' only for the Glazers to say, 'It was only indicative. What I am more comfortable doing the deal is at billions, say 10?''
They will be chasing that 'tail' forever until it gets humiliating when either the Glazers think that's the max they can extract or Jassim takes your view and says 'feck it, how much?''
Thats not a smart way of doing/buying a business.
Are you sure? Well, many in this thread seem to know their exact steps, even their exact thoughts.
Copium in this thread is quite something.
I fear anything other than a full sale is a death blow to the club.
Why would they sell their shares for 1.5b and invest it into the club when they've never put one pound in before? All that is going in their pockets!
I suppose one good thing is the longer it drags on Jassim will be earning plenty of interest on that 5 billion and the cnuts are missing out on it.
Yup, cutting their nose off to spite their face as the saying goes.
I fear state ownership and the club being used as part of a sportswashing project is a death blow to the club.
Opinions eh.
Morally, absolutely but not in actual terms.
I'm tired of this saga, let something happen. Qatar(preferably, of course), Ratcliffe minority/majority, whatever. Just some clarification and conclusion, please.
Not really engaged in this discussion but have been reading it regularly.
Just some questions really. More and more people seem to be saying the sale isn't going to happen. Is this really viable?
I'm thinking the exposure, the fact that Raine are involved and the money spent by various parties (an assumption really those who know more can correct me, just assumed there would be certain costs involved for all parties in the undertaking?). Could the current owners really just back out? Would there be recompense for likes of Jim and Jassim? I assume Raine will get paid no matter what?
I suppose owners can do what the want in the end but surely their standing as business people would take a hit?
Just some questions really. More and more people seem to be saying the sale isn't going to happen. Is this really viable?
I'm thinking the exposure, the fact that Raine are involved and the money spent by various parties (an assumption really those who know more can correct me, just assumed there would be certain costs involved for all parties in the undertaking?). Could the current owners really just back out? Would there be recompense for likes of Jim and Jassim? I assume Raine will get paid no matter what?
I suppose owners can do what the want in the end but surely their standing as business people would take a hit?
Sir Jim having some partial ownership will just be a zombie glazers ownership. He'll do slightly better PR as he has lots of friendly journo contacts and he wants to be popular with the fans whereas the Glazers don't care. Will this lead to any improvements? I'd say no. A small amount of investment and a new partial owner looking to be popular....will give red meat to the fans and throw managers to the wolves rather than make wholesale changes to the playing staff.
The Marketing team will end up with more investment growth than the football side. I just hope this is a final "we even tried..." gambit from him before withdrawing from the process and forcing the glazers to sell to the last remaining bid.
The Marketing team will end up with more investment growth than the football side. I just hope this is a final "we even tried..." gambit from him before withdrawing from the process and forcing the glazers to sell to the last remaining bid.
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Because the club isnt worth near what the parasites want for it. Then you have to factor in how much debt clearing/investment money has to be input aswell. (which could be close to another 1.5b or so.)
The Qataris arent stupid. Theyre not going to just pay it because Glazers want it.
Personally I find it madness that the Glazers caused all the debt problems and are now able to just pass it onto someone else to deal with. There should be some accountability on their side on paying off a certain %
You are completely inaccurate, Ratcliffe initially bid £4-4.5 billion for 100% of the Siblings 69% shares then reconstructed his bid to win 51% of their class B voting shares which was circa $3 billion or £2.7 billion for 57.63 million of their class B shares and for them to relinquish controlling stake of the club. For the very last time the Glazers nor the Raine group can decide how much I or any other Class A shareholder sells their shares for.
Forbes valued the club at $6bn and The glazers overvalued their controlling stake at £6 billion. The main reason that the Qatari will not move on their bid right now there is no comparable bid which is trying to ;
1. But the 69% Controlling stake
2. Pay off all existing debt and therefore delist from NYSE
3. Make a fair enterprise value for all Minority class A shares through their newly incorporated Cayman Island Company
Don’t take my word, take the word of the Cardiff Chairmen who actually managed the initial management buyout of the Club in 2005
https://x.com/UtdPlug/status/1690700246173491200?s=20
How did a respected banker who is chairman of Cardiff football club come to that conclusion, he’s clearly has contacts with the Glazers but more simply put this is the view within the market from agencies like Bloomberg and Reuters if a 100% deal was to get done the Glazers and incoming owners would want the following ;
Appendix A. - £6 billion for their 69% controlling stake of the. Club including purchase of 113 million class B shares
Appendix B - Representative compensation for loss of future broadcasting and merchandising deals inclusive in £6 billion
Appendix C - changeover of title of deeds on all land owned by the club to new owners inclusive in £6 billion settlement
Appendix D - An agreed settlement of the minority Class A share holders at fair enterprise value - $34-38 there are 50 million of these class A shares which the Glazers hold 6.9 million.
Appendix E - Since all assets are transferred in a 100% sale by the outgoing owners all debts must also be settled as the Glazers are the original guarantors of the club debt, therefore £700-800m must be deducted from the £6 billion fee however amortisation of transfer debt will be moved over to the new owners as a ongoing concern.
Appendix F - Only After all of the above have been settled can the new owners seek permission to delist the Club from the NYSE
The cost to buy 100% of United is £7.3 to 7.4 billion pounds.
The belief rightly or wrongly is that SJ/92 foundation have offered £5.2 billion to the Glazers to buy their 69% stake however the debt would have to be taken from that fee so they would roughly get £4.4-4.5 billion.
To prevent the Class A Shareholders from taking The Glazers to court, simply because it’s their duty to make sure all shareholders receive a fair enterprise offer should the clubs ownership structure change.
They also need to inform the NYSE of this major change, then they would have to allow SJ/92 to make an offer per share , assume that offer is currently nearly twice the market value at $34 then the additional cost would be 50 million multiplied by $34 to buy 100% of the club which is $1.7 billion or £1.392 billion.
It’s quite reasonable to expect that the true cost of the Qatari bid irrespective of any promise of future investment is already a commitment of £6.5-6.6 billion with some of that huge investment being staggered payments next year to buy the remaining 31% minority class A shares
The Glazers only care about themselves and want £6 billion because after the debt has been subtracted that will give them approximately £5.2-5.3 billion which converts to $6.4-6.5 billion or more than $1 billion each, even after they’ve paid Raines huge commission fee.
I hope this finally clears this subject up, for the very last time the Glazers want £6 billion to sell their 69% controlling stake and relinquish complete control of the football club. If they don’t get it or at least £5.7-5.8 billion they won’t sell or simply manipulate a minority investor like INEOS who will be far too clever for the Glazers, and I doubt that deal gets done when everyone reads the small print with a hugely complexed Put and Call M&A deal.
Ps Sky sports have backtracked maybe 8 or 9 times within the last year. They reported it wrong initially and even now they are reporting the 25% minority investment wrong why because it’s no longer a M&A takeover deal, it’s purely a minority investment so it is completely not relative to discussing this with SJ/92 foundations bid, discuss INEOS latest attempt with Elliot management and other minority investors who looked to buy a part of the company now im the hope that eventually it goes. Bankrupt under the Glazers Stewardship, only for them to pick up the club for pennies whilst settling its huge debt issue?
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Sadly this is how you know the Qataris aren't that serious.
If they wanted to buy the club no matter what they would offer a controlling stake like SJR.
As it is, the offer from SJR and SJ will just cause the Glazers to wait longer.
6bln is and always has been the price, so unless these jokers are going to offer it, don't bother.
If they wanted to buy the club no matter what they would offer a controlling stake like SJR.
As it is, the offer from SJR and SJ will just cause the Glazers to wait longer.
6bln is and always has been the price, so unless these jokers are going to offer it, don't bother.
No one knows their intention, including the BS reporters. They've indicated no appetite to up before and then went on to increase their bid. The journalists will release soundbites, it doesn't make it true.
My 'guess' is that Qatar will up the bid if they feel they aren't in control. And I have a feeling they are in control because the only credible reporters (i.e. those covering business acquisitions such as David Hellier of Bloomberg) insinuating a confidence from Qatar that Ratcliff was out of it.
I'm using mosaic theory here but I do agree with @Woziak's view that Ratcliffe's latest bid is a desperation to get a win out of this. The same ilk of journalists who said he will be patient and wait are the ones who are saying he's suddenly offering minority to 'break the deadlock'. I read that as "I know I've lost unless I give a minority offer". However the minority offer comes with Ts&Cs that aren't necessarily convenient for the Glazers, and I think Qatar know that.
If Qatar feel like they are losing control, they'll up the bid like they did before (despite it being the 'last' one)
Thanks. I think we are all caught up on where we are today.
Complex deal made even more complicated by Ratcliffe and his bootstrapping approach.
Nah I disagree. There’s literally nobody on the planet willing to pay 6B it’s a ridiculous price for a club that needs further billions spending on the stadium and squad I can’t blame them.
A ridiculous valuation. Why stop at 6B? Why not say the club is worth 18B? or 32B? Absolute farce.
6B is the issue, it's a massive inflated figure that doesn't reflect the true value of the club. Projected value maybe but no one sells an intrinsic asset on projected value (good luck finding buyers). If the Qatar offer is indeed at 5.5 then it's more fool the Glazers, one thing they aren't doing is considering the operating costs as they wait longer in the hopes the club values soares, it doesn't change the conditions of the infrastructure (stadium etc). Any investor has to consider the wider view of not just the buy-out but the investment.
Absolutely If INEOS had not tried to change the process with at first keeping 2 Glazers, then 6 Glazers and now a 25% minority this would probably have been done 3 months ago
Excellent summary you are 100% spot on with their sheer arrogance not to consider the wider view and other huge cost investments required by any incoming owner.
Conspiracy time:
Jim spoke highly of Glazers prior to their announcement of deciding to seek options (Sale/ investment), since then each of his bids have prompted Qatar to respond and up their bid, it goes quiet for a few months and then SJ restructures his deal to try and present a more "Attractive" offer to the Glazers, from which Qatar are forced to up their bid.
Is it all possible that they are in bed together and SJ is simply driving up the price for the Glazers in the promise that he will receive something at the end of it perhaps?
Jim spoke highly of Glazers prior to their announcement of deciding to seek options (Sale/ investment), since then each of his bids have prompted Qatar to respond and up their bid, it goes quiet for a few months and then SJ restructures his deal to try and present a more "Attractive" offer to the Glazers, from which Qatar are forced to up their bid.
Is it all possible that they are in bed together and SJ is simply driving up the price for the Glazers in the promise that he will receive something at the end of it perhaps?
A part of me wants to see the Glazers get fecked over and by that I mean, they keep it for another few years only to see us hover around the bottom 10 of the league resulting in the club being worth 20 quid. I hate them that much.
Are they really that deluded to not realise that Utd are tanking in regards to reputation and stature? We aren't a desired destination for managers and players anymore. And it's only going to get worse. Stadium is leaking & crumbling. Training facilities are shite. Squad is bang average. The manager is shite. Like, what exactly do the Glazers expect by sticking around? I would just take the money and run, feck owning this crumbling empire.
Are they really that deluded to not realise that Utd are tanking in regards to reputation and stature? We aren't a desired destination for managers and players anymore. And it's only going to get worse. Stadium is leaking & crumbling. Training facilities are shite. Squad is bang average. The manager is shite. Like, what exactly do the Glazers expect by sticking around? I would just take the money and run, feck owning this crumbling empire.
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