croadyman
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Yeah they don't have any intention of going up,so it's starting to look like Ratcliffe minority offer or nothing which is sickening
That’s the thing, he does care. That’s why he changed the original bid of allowing Glazers to stay on after taking over. He must know it’s a PR nightmare since it was first time roundDoes make me wonder what Ratcliffe thinks he's gaining by leaking all this crap out. By leaking that he's willing to buy a minority stake and leave the Glazers in charge, all he's going to do is turn the United fanbase against him in record time... clearly not a move from someone who is serious about buying the club, even in the mid-long term, especially after all his PR arse kissing when he declared his interest. Reeks of a man who knows he's beaten and doesn't really care
I'm with you and find it baffling if INEOS give a single shite about fan perception. With every newly reported convoluted structure, most fans are just thinking, "this deal is getting worse all the time." Trying to play Devil's Advocate (or Rat's Advocate in this case), perhaps they think if they've shown people all avenues were exhausted and they intend to take full control from the Glazers eventually, the fans will be more accepting of a shitty deal. With these increasingly shitty (from a fan perspective) structures, it seems he is desperate to prevail and is not willing or able to win by buying it all now (either due to his rival beating him or the Glazer valuation being unrealistic for all comers).
Personally, I am of the opinion that Ol' Jimmy absolutely loves that his name and the name of his company are being affiliated with Man Utd, so all of these articles have that benefit regardless of anything else.
From the very little we know about what's happening on the Qatari side, they may be at the valuation they believe is fair and feel they have little incentive to raise unless presented with a rival bid that is actually viable (i.e. will pass without the Glazers and the Board being sued), is seeking at least a majority stake, and beats their own valuation. This is all under the presupposition that the Qatari valuation and the Glazer valuation remain too far apart for a deal to be close. The reality is that we have no idea how advanced those talks might be.
I would have thought it would be 25% of the clubs value, circa $1.5bil. Of that, an equal amount would be spent on class b and class a, regardless of the proportion that gives him of each.
Ot it may not be equal at all and he is trying to buy the class A from the hedgefundss that where thretning leagal action.
And more importantly, we don't know why only 25%. Why not buy all Class A plus the Class B belonging to the 4 Glazers that want out?
Regardless, still think 25% is a stepping stone to full ownership.
Does make me wonder what Ratcliffe thinks he's gaining by leaking all this crap out. By leaking that he's willing to buy a minority stake and leave the Glazers in charge, all he's going to do is turn the United fanbase against him in record time... clearly not a move from someone who is serious about buying the club, even in the mid-long term, especially after all his PR arse kissing when he declared his interest. Reeks of a man who knows he's beaten and doesn't really care
And there is the problem right in front of you. The club needs a huge capital investment. If Joel and Avram stay on as majority owners, where in the feck is the investment coming from?
Suprise-suprise Jim Brexit is backstabbing the gullible united supporters just like he backstabbed the gullible brexiters, once a rat will always be a rat. I honestly think its been the plan all along, they just cant accept it right away due to fear of getting sued so they keep delay delay delay till the qataris got tired and pull the deal off.
THEY LOOK LIKE SIBLINGS!
Not the way it works. They are essentially selling equity.The 25 percent has to be invested into the club, all of it, it cannot be going into the Glazers pockets surely, that's obviously not investment, I'd be surprised if they don't take the Qatar offer, its just greed that's delaying things.
For the last time the Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% share of class B shares and to relinquish control, the remaining 31% would cost another £1.2/1.4 billion that’s why this makes no sense.
Finally confirmed that £5-5.1bn bid is for the total sale of the club makes total sense market cap is currently $3.27bn with $20.05 per share and falling. For the record 69% of this is $4.4bn twice the market value for their controlling shares. More than a fair price for six entitled goblins who inherited Daddy’s leveraged. Buy out of the world’s most famous football club, oops I meant soccer club. If this goes through it will be reported at £5.75bn because of £635m debt which will also be paid as part of the transaction. That is a world record $7.3bn, The Raine group should be telling them if the club had zero debt, they may well of got £6bn but this is a fair price in the current market.
No this is pretty clear now, Market cap currently is $3.27bn(69% of those shares would be $2.25bn) however these shares are more valuable has they have 10* voting shares. To take control of man united in its current structure you need to buy these controlling shares first and then offer the same value to the existing share holders. This would mean that SH under his 92 foundation has offered twice the market cap for control and then to buy the club out 100%. Assuming the bid is probably £5.1-5.3bn let’s say £5.2bn is the actual bid placed for the whole club minus the debt cost which would be paid on completion is $6.53bn. This is almost exactly twice the market cap right now with shares at $20.05 and falling.
If I was a betting man this gets done and will be reported as a full sale at £5.2bn plus the £635m debt so final sale value of
£5.7-5.8bn or $7.3bn world record takeover for a sports club.
Literally every outlet has now backtracked and stated the six Glazer siblings want £6 billion to relinquish control of the club and therefore sell to a new owner. The Glazers or the Raine group can not value the minority Class A shares as they are made of multiple hedge funds who invested at a different entry point and may want a different exit price for their shares from other minority share holders, the Glazers do not have any control at what price Lindsell train and other hedge funds value their shares at. I hope this finally clears this subject up, as the media don’t have a clue?
For the last time the Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% share of class B shares and to relinquish control, the remaining 31% would cost another £1.2/1.4 billion that’s why this makes no sense.
Literally every outlet has now backtracked and stated the six Glazer siblings want £6 billion to relinquish control of the club and therefore sell to a new owner. The Glazers or the Raine group can not value the minority Class A shares as they are made of multiple hedge funds who invested at a different entry point and may want a different exit price for their shares from other minority share holders, the Glazers do not have any control at what price Lindsell train and other hedge funds value their shares at. I hope this finally clears this subject up, as the media don’t have a clue?
Imagine the joy of Qatar taking over United.
The first part of what you said is also what the Bloomberg journalist David Hellier said. He exclaimed that he "surprised" they have just raised the near the £6 billion in order to secure the transaction. As of last week, he still believes that will be the case.I just don't get why Qatar hasn't already paid the asking price, they have the money and surely they must despise the idea of being outdone by the Saudis.
How the debt is cleared is a big question.
I just don't get why Qatar hasn't already paid the asking price, they have the money and surely they must despise the idea of being outdone by the Saudis.
Are you sure? Well, many in this thread seem to know their exact steps, even their exact thoughts.Very few actually knows their approach, and that includes the writer of the times article, who is known to get it wrong:
The 25 percent has to be invested into the club, all of it, it cannot be going into the Glazers pockets surely, that's obviously not investment, I'd be surprised if they don't take the Qatar offer, its just greed that's delaying things.
If the Glazers sold for 5bn 6 months ago, they'd have made 150m off interest by now (assuming a 6% money market rate).
And I'm sure the Glazers can find a way to make their money work harder.
Just stupid not to take the cash and run.
I fear anything other than a full sale is a death blow to the club.
Morally, absolutely but not in actual terms.I fear state ownership and the club being used as part of a sportswashing project is a death blow to the club.
Opinions eh.
I just don't get why Qatar hasn't already paid the asking price, they have the money and surely they must despise the idea of being outdone by the Saudis.
You are completely inaccurate, Ratcliffe initially bid £4-4.5 billion for 100% of the Siblings 69% shares then reconstructed his bid to win 51% of their class B voting shares which was circa $3 billion or £2.7 billion for 57.63 million of their class B shares and for them to relinquish controlling stake of the club. For the very last time the Glazers nor the Raine group can decide how much I or any other Class A shareholder sells their shares for.Link to that please, because to my knowledge, that has not been reported anywhere.
Today's market cap is $3.1b at $19 per share. If what you are saying is true, then it would mean they are asking circa $60 a share, which if The Glazers are getting, the Class A shareholders will want too.
You explained the same thing......
and here....
This is exactly why Jim bid for the 69% owned by the Glazers...
Manchester United takeover: Sir Jim Ratcliffe bids for 69 per cent of club as Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber Al Thani attends Old Trafford games | Football News | Sky Sports
Semantics. If that is what you are going of, then you are wrong. That just means that they value the entire club at 6billion, not just their 69%. The journalists using "control of the club" loosely.
Why else would Jim bid for 69% and Jassim 100%?
Remember when Matt Lawton claimed this...
No one knows their intention, including the BS reporters. They've indicated no appetite to up before and then went on to increase their bid. The journalists will release soundbites, it doesn't make it true.Yeah they don't have any intention of going up,so it's starting to look like Ratcliffe minority offer or nothing which is sickening
You are completely inaccurate, Ratcliffe initially bid £4-4.5 billion for 100% of the Siblings 69% shares then reconstructed his bid to win 51% of their class B voting shares which was circa $3 billion or £2.7 billion for 57.63 million of their class B shares and for them to relinquish controlling stake of the club. For the very last time the Glazers nor the Raine group can decide how much I or any other Class A shareholder sells their shares for.
Forbes valued the club at $6bn and The glazers overvalued their controlling stake at £6 billion. The main reason that the Qatari will not move on their bid right now there is no comparable bid which is trying to ;
1. But the 69% Controlling stake
2. Pay off all existing debt and therefore delist from NYSE
3. Make a fair enterprise value for all Minority class A shares through their newly incorporated Cayman Island Company
Don’t take my word, take the word of the Cardiff Chairmen who actually managed the initial management buyout of the Club in 2005
https://x.com/UtdPlug/status/1690700246173491200?s=20
How did a respected banker who is chairman of Cardiff football club come to that conclusion, he’s clearly has contacts with the Glazers but more simply put this is the view within the market from agencies like Bloomberg and Reuters if a 100% deal was to get done the Glazers and incoming owners would want the following ;
Appendix A. - £6 billion for their 69% controlling stake of the. Club including purchase of 113 million class B shares
Appendix B - Representative compensation for loss of future broadcasting and merchandising deals inclusive in £6 billion
Appendix C - changeover of title of deeds on all land owned by the club to new owners inclusive in £6 billion settlement
Appendix D - An agreed settlement of the minority Class A share holders at fair enterprise value - $34-38 there are 50 million of these class A shares which the Glazers hold 6.9 million.
Appendix E - Since all assets are transferred in a 100% sale by the outgoing owners all debts must also be settled as the Glazers are the original guarantors of the club debt, therefore £700-800m must be deducted from the £6 billion fee however amortisation of transfer debt will be moved over to the new owners as a ongoing concern.
Appendix F - Only After all of the above have been settled can the new owners seek permission to delist the Club from the NYSE
The cost to buy 100% of United is £7.3 to 7.4 billion pounds.
The belief rightly or wrongly is that SJ/92 foundation have offered £5.2 billion to the Glazers to buy their 69% stake however the debt would have to be taken from that fee so they would roughly get £4.4-4.5 billion.
To prevent the Class A Shareholders from taking The Glazers to court, simply because it’s their duty to make sure all shareholders receive a fair enterprise offer should the clubs ownership structure change.
They also need to inform the NYSE of this major change, then they would have to allow SJ/92 to make an offer per share , assume that offer is currently nearly twice the market value at $34 then the additional cost would be 50 million multiplied by $34 to buy 100% of the club which is $1.7 billion or £1.392 billion.
It’s quite reasonable to expect that the true cost of the Qatari bid irrespective of any promise of future investment is already a commitment of £6.5-6.6 billion with some of that huge investment being staggered payments next year to buy the remaining 31% minority class A shares
The Glazers only care about themselves and want £6 billion because after the debt has been subtracted that will give them approximately £5.2-5.3 billion which converts to $6.4-6.5 billion or more than $1 billion each, even after they’ve paid Raines huge commission fee.
I hope this finally clears this subject up, for the very last time the Glazers want £6 billion to sell their 69% controlling stake and relinquish complete control of the football club. If they don’t get it or at least £5.7-5.8 billion they won’t sell or simply manipulate a minority investor like INEOS who will be far too clever for the Glazers, and I doubt that deal gets done when everyone reads the small print with a hugely complexed Put and Call M&A deal.
Ps Sky sports have backtracked maybe 8 or 9 times within the last year. They reported it wrong initially and even now they are reporting the 25% minority investment wrong why because it’s no longer a M&A takeover deal, it’s purely a minority investment so it is completely not relative to discussing this with SJ/92 foundations bid, discuss INEOS latest attempt with Elliot management and other minority investors who looked to buy a part of the company now im the hope that eventually it goes. Bankrupt under the Glazers Stewardship, only for them to pick up the club for pennies whilst settling its huge debt issue?
Sadly this is how you know the Qataris aren't that serious.
If they wanted to buy the club no matter what they would offer a controlling stake like Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe FIChemE.
As it is, the offer from Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe FIChemE and SJ will just cause the Glazers to wait longer.
6bln is and always has been the price, so unless these jokers are going to offer it, don't bother.
Sadly this is how you know the Qataris aren't that serious.
If they wanted to buy the club no matter what they would offer a controlling stake like Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe FIChemE.
As it is, the offer from Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe FIChemE and SJ will just cause the Glazers to wait longer.
6bln is and always has been the price, so unless these jokers are going to offer it, don't bother.
Absolutely If INEOS had not tried to change the process with at first keeping 2 Glazers, then 6 Glazers and now a 25% minority this would probably have been done 3 months agoThanks. I think we are all caught up on where we are today.
Complex deal made even more complicated by Ratcliffe and his bootstrapping approach.
Excellent summary you are 100% spot on with their sheer arrogance not to consider the wider view and other huge cost investments required by any incoming owner.6B is the issue, it's a massive inflated figure that doesn't reflect the true value of the club. Projected value maybe but no one sells an intrinsic asset on projected value (good luck finding buyers). If the Qatar offer is indeed at 5.5 then it's more fool the Glazers, one thing they aren't doing is considering the operating costs as they wait longer in the hopes the club values soares, it doesn't change the conditions of the infrastructure (stadium etc). Any investor has to consider the wider view of not just the buy-out but the investment.