Club Sale | It’s done!

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I don't know how long will Qatar play this silly game with the Glazers. Jimmy Brexit seems to be content to wait as far as it takes to achieve his childhood fantasy(owning the club he supported, Manchester United), no matter the circumstances. In a Machiavellian fashion, using all the available tools/tricks.

Also, are Qataris ready to up their bid, if necessary? How serious are they in this possible acquisition of Manchester United?
 
I don't know how long will Qatar play this silly game with the Glazers. Jimmy Brexit seems to be content to wait as far as it takes to achieve his childhood fantasy(owning the club he supported, Manchester United), no matter the circumstances. In a Machiavellian fashion, using all the available tools/tricks.

Also, are Qataris ready to up their bid, if necessary? How serious are they in this possible acquisition of Manchester United?
I dont think they have to up it.it’s not some sort of hostile takeover, Glazers put the club up for sale and this is the best offer.
The worst thing to happen to the Glazers plans is Qatar. You see Jim scrambling three times now when he changed the structure of the his hid. That’s because the whole scary story of United could be worth 8b in 3 years does affect him and if it were Jim v a non state bid we probably would see bids going up and up because each know the other has a limit and they might not afford another crack at United.
Qatar knows Jim’s limit and are sitting still. The scary story isn’t as threatening since Qatar can say we can wait and if the value of the club does raise we will simply raise our bid then. Then you e got Cayman Island regulations which states Glazers have to sell to the best bidder for all shareholders so they can simply wait and bid a bit more if Jim bids higher again.
Glazers are trapped here
 
Absolutely If INEOS had not tried to change the process with at first keeping 2 Glazers, then 6 Glazers and now a 25% minority this would probably have been done 3 months ago

Ratcliffe is the Donald trump of the chemical world where normal convention or rules don't apply to him!
 
I don't know how long will Qatar play this silly game with the Glazers. Jimmy Brexit seems to be content to wait as far as it takes to achieve his childhood fantasy(owning the club he supported, Manchester United), no matter the circumstances. In a Machiavellian fashion, using all the available tools/tricks.

Also, are Qataris ready to up their bid, if necessary? How serious are they in this possible acquisition of Manchester United?


The Qatari just want an entrance into the EPL and if they were smart right now, they could pivot 180 and go get spurs, they could upgrade the stadium to 75-80,000. For £400m, no debt that affects investment only the loan for the stadium which is self funding, Joe Lewis probably needing to sell and a team on the up.

Spurs are in London, might cost £3-3.5 billion and imagine what spurs would be like with a £300m winter transfer window. Diego Costa(50m), Nicola Barella(75m) , V Osimhen (125m) and J Frimpong (40m). Manager gets it, still unbeaten in the PL with 17 points from 7 games having played Man united, Arsenal and Liverpool already. Huge opportunity to make money with relative minimal investment.

The United option looks less desirable by the day……. buying from absolute W….rS , huge debt, stadium is completely not fit for purpose, manager is stubborn and one dimensional, the players are all on too high wages with a brittle mentality and there is no competent football structure below the board and above the Manager.
 
The Qatari just want an entrance into the EPL and if they were smart right now, they could pivot 180 and go get spurs, they could upgrade the stadium to 75-80,000. For £400m, no debt that affects investment only the loan for the stadium which is self funding, Joe Lewis probably needing to sell and a team on the up.

Spurs are in London, might cost £3-3.5 billion and imagine what spurs would be like with a £300m winter transfer window. Diego Costa(50m), Nicola Barella(75m) , V Osimhen (125m) and J Frimpong (40m). Manager gets it, still unbeaten in the PL with 17 points from 7 games having played Man united, Arsenal and Liverpool already. Huge opportunity to make money with relative minimal investment.

The United option looks less desirable by the day……. buying from absolute W….rS , huge debt, stadium is completely not fit for purpose, manager is stubborn and one dimensional, the players are all on too high wages with a brittle mentality and there is no competent football structure below the board and above the Manager.

Rightly or wrongly though its spurs ain't it. :lol:
 
The Qatari just want an entrance into the EPL and if they were smart right now, they could pivot 180 and go get spurs, they could upgrade the stadium to 75-80,000. For £400m, no debt that affects investment only the loan for the stadium which is self funding, Joe Lewis probably needing to sell and a team on the up.

Spurs are in London, might cost £3-3.5 billion and imagine what spurs would be like with a £300m winter transfer window. Diego Costa(50m), Nicola Barella(75m) , V Osimhen (125m) and J Frimpong (40m). Manager gets it, still unbeaten in the PL with 17 points from 7 games having played Man united, Arsenal and Liverpool already. Huge opportunity to make money with relative minimal investment.

The United option looks less desirable by the day……. buying from absolute W….rS , huge debt, stadium is completely not fit for purpose, manager is stubborn and one dimensional, the players are all on too high wages with a brittle mentality and there is no competent football structure below the board and above the Manager.
The short termism in this post :lol:

Too much Football Manager being played methinks.
 
Just a thought on Sir Jim’s latest divide and conquer option, who and why would it have been leaked?

The journalist, from what I’ve read, was one of the first journalists to break the news about the strategic financial review, accordingly he commands some credibility.

So the leak-

Sir Jim?

Perhaps he would have leaked to allow the fans to vent their frustration but also for everyone to get used to the idea. Also he could possibly be coming in with another option which is not as bad as this one and then look like a saviour.

The Raine/Glazers?

Obviously, they don’t need to go around the houses to tell Jassim - they can just pick up the phone, however perhaps by leaking this stuff it’s a ploy to suggest that they are seriously considering it, otherwise why leak such incendiary stuff.

Jassim

Perhaps to illuminate the scraping of the barrel -type bidding that he is up against but based on the reports in The Times, today, he is clearly not too impressed and perhaps that is reconfirming the message to Raine.
 
The short termism in this post :lol:

Too much Football Manager being played methinks.

Look we all hope for a hopeful outcome in the bidding process but the point your missing is when you deal with the Glazers in any capacity, it’s soul destroying, at some point the Qatari will either pay up or walk away and let’s be honest it wouldn’t really surprise anyone if the Glazers continues to p… them off, eventually they will just move onto another club.

SJ united shirt would be replaced with another figure head whose been a spurs fan all his life and recites the glory days of Hoddle, Ardilles, Mabbut and Villa!
 
The Qatari just want an entrance into the EPL and if they were smart right now, they could pivot 180 and go get spurs, they could upgrade the stadium to 75-80,000. For £400m, no debt that affects investment only the loan for the stadium which is self funding, Joe Lewis probably needing to sell and a team on the up.

Spurs are in London, might cost £3-3.5 billion and imagine what spurs would be like with a £300m winter transfer window. Diego Costa(50m), Nicola Barella(75m) , V Osimhen (125m) and J Frimpong (40m). Manager gets it, still unbeaten in the PL with 17 points from 7 games having played Man united, Arsenal and Liverpool already. Huge opportunity to make money with relative minimal investment.

The United option looks less desirable by the day……. buying from absolute W….rS , huge debt, stadium is completely not fit for purpose, manager is stubborn and one dimensional, the players are all on too high wages with a brittle mentality and there is no competent football structure below the board and above the Manager.
I agree, there are definitely better choices for the acquisition of an EPL club than United. I know United is the biggest, most famous one, but it's in such a financial mess and the takeover is so complicated because of that grotesque, pathologically greedy Florida family.

Tottenham, Liverpool, Everton(new stadium), West Ham are all better choices to buy right now. I wonder how long will Qataris stick to United and play this tedious, exhausting game with the Glazers before they shift their attention elsewhere?
 
I am really surprised we haven't seen a more aggressive protest at this point in time, Surely the longer this drags on, and added the form the team is showing, We will see more frequent and meaningful action?
On a side note does anyone remember what happened to the phoenix fund set up by MUST many years ago?
 
Weird comment.
His clothes are decent. I was honestly impressed. Looks like he's been shopping at All Saints.

Avram_Glazer-8jpg-JS848633995.jpg


His wife on the other hand, ouch. Looks like he's been fishing in the same gene pool.

But weird to comment on his clothes. He's just out and about in NYC.

Most billionaires dress understated, they don't waste money often on materialistic things.

As the saying goes, money talks, wealth whispers.
 
Didn’t people say the Geordies are perennial losers not wining a major trophy for over 67 years until Saudi bought them and now they are a genuine threat ?

Yeah it was only a joke to be fair. Although to be fair owning United and turning round a fallen giant will look better on the world stage than owning spurs.

Financially though yeah spurs make more sense.
 
The Qatari just want an entrance into the EPL and if they were smart right now, they could pivot 180 and go get spurs, they could upgrade the stadium to 75-80,000. For £400m, no debt that affects investment only the loan for the stadium which is self funding, Joe Lewis probably needing to sell and a team on the up.

Spurs are in London, might cost £3-3.5 billion and imagine what spurs would be like with a £300m winter transfer window. Diego Costa(50m), Nicola Barella(75m) , V Osimhen (125m) and J Frimpong (40m). Manager gets it, still unbeaten in the PL with 17 points from 7 games having played Man united, Arsenal and Liverpool already. Huge opportunity to make money with relative minimal investment.

The United option looks less desirable by the day……. buying from absolute W….rS , huge debt, stadium is completely not fit for purpose, manager is stubborn and one dimensional, the players are all on too high wages with a brittle mentality and there is no competent football structure below the board and above the Manager.

I imagine Spurs would be a tempting buy but probably more for an American consortium, I think Manchester United is still the bigger pull for a nation like Qatar. United have a global reputation and fans from so many different backgrounds. If their intent is to sportwash some of their poor reputation, United offer far more possibilities than Spurs. There is still also the commercial side, which United has for the last 10 years although massive probably still underutilised. The potential earnings are monstrous in comparison.
 
You are completely inaccurate, Ratcliffe initially bid £4-4.5 billion for 100% of the Siblings 69% shares then reconstructed his bid to win 51% of their class B voting shares which was circa $3 billion or £2.7 billion for 57.63 million of their class B shares and for them to relinquish controlling stake of the club. For the very last time the Glazers nor the Raine group can decide how much I or any other Class A shareholder sells their shares for.

Forbes valued the club at $6bn and The glazers overvalued their controlling stake at £6 billion. The main reason that the Qatari will not move on their bid right now there is no comparable bid which is trying to ;

1. But the 69% Controlling stake
2. Pay off all existing debt and therefore delist from NYSE
3. Make a fair enterprise value for all Minority class A shares through their newly incorporated Cayman Island Company

Don’t take my word, take the word of the Cardiff Chairmen who actually managed the initial management buyout of the Club in 2005


https://x.com/UtdPlug/status/1690700246173491200?s=20


How did a respected banker who is chairman of Cardiff football club come to that conclusion, he’s clearly has contacts with the Glazers but more simply put this is the view within the market from agencies like Bloomberg and Reuters if a 100% deal was to get done the Glazers and incoming owners would want the following ;

Appendix A. - £6 billion for their 69% controlling stake of the. Club including purchase of 113 million class B shares

Appendix B - Representative compensation for loss of future broadcasting and merchandising deals inclusive in £6 billion

Appendix C - changeover of title of deeds on all land owned by the club to new owners inclusive in £6 billion settlement

Appendix D - An agreed settlement of the minority Class A share holders at fair enterprise value - $34-38 there are 50 million of these class A shares which the Glazers hold 6.9 million.


Appendix E - Since all assets are transferred in a 100% sale by the outgoing owners all debts must also be settled as the Glazers are the original guarantors of the club debt, therefore £700-800m must be deducted from the £6 billion fee however amortisation of transfer debt will be moved over to the new owners as a ongoing concern.

Appendix F - Only After all of the above have been settled can the new owners seek permission to delist the Club from the NYSE

The cost to buy 100% of United is £7.3 to 7.4 billion pounds.
The belief rightly or wrongly is that SJ/92 foundation have offered £5.2 billion to the Glazers to buy their 69% stake however the debt would have to be taken from that fee so they would roughly get £4.4-4.5 billion.

To prevent the Class A Shareholders from taking The Glazers to court, simply because it’s their duty to make sure all shareholders receive a fair enterprise offer should the clubs ownership structure change.

They also need to inform the NYSE of this major change, then they would have to allow SJ/92 to make an offer per share , assume that offer is currently nearly twice the market value at $34 then the additional cost would be 50 million multiplied by $34 to buy 100% of the club which is $1.7 billion or £1.392 billion.

It’s quite reasonable to expect that the true cost of the Qatari bid irrespective of any promise of future investment is already a commitment of £6.5-6.6 billion with some of that huge investment being staggered payments next year to buy the remaining 31% minority class A shares

The Glazers only care about themselves and want £6 billion because after the debt has been subtracted that will give them approximately £5.2-5.3 billion which converts to $6.4-6.5 billion or more than $1 billion each, even after they’ve paid Raines huge commission fee.

I hope this finally clears this subject up, for the very last time the Glazers want £6 billion to sell their 69% controlling stake and relinquish complete control of the football club. If they don’t get it or at least £5.7-5.8 billion they won’t sell or simply manipulate a minority investor like INEOS who will be far too clever for the Glazers, and I doubt that deal gets done when everyone reads the small print with a hugely complexed Put and Call M&A deal.

Ps Sky sports have backtracked maybe 8 or 9 times within the last year. They reported it wrong initially and even now they are reporting the 25% minority investment wrong why because it’s no longer a M&A takeover deal, it’s purely a minority investment so it is completely not relative to discussing this with SJ/92 foundations bid, discuss INEOS latest attempt with Elliot management and other minority investors who looked to buy a part of the company now im the hope that eventually it goes. Bankrupt under the Glazers Stewardship, only for them to pick up the club for pennies whilst settling its huge debt issue?

All very well laid out, but you still have not given us a source that confirms that the £5bil for 100% Jassim bid is just for the 69% Glazer owned stock.

You appendixes are all very nice, but where are your sources to back up the statements?

Please don't tell me you are basing this just on what the Cardiff City chairman said here Mehmet Dalman: Cardiff City chairman hails best transfer window of his tenure - BBC Sport

He raises the United sale as example of why his club may be worth 100mil in this climate....

"Manchester United are going to announce their sale at £7.2bn-7.3bn, which is roughly 10 times their revenue.
"Two or three years ago, we might have been talking about selling Cardiff for about £20m or £30m but now you're going to have to look at £90m or £100m. Valuations [of Championship clubs] have all stretched.


So, of course he is inflating those numbers! These figures could be plucked from anywhere. And you're telling us the Cardiff City chairman "clearly has contacts with the Glazers" ? Evidence for this please?

If as you say...

"The cost to buy 100% of United is £7.3 to 7.4 billion pounds."

That would be around a $9bil total valuation. Current market cap is 3.1bil at $19 a share. So you're saying Jassim is going be paying circa $60 a share ? No where has that been discussed.

It has been reported that...

"£5billion bid equates to $32.5 per share; current market price is $18.85"
https://theathletic.com/4524654/202...atcliffe-sheikh-jassim-and-what-were-hearing/

Every single one of these articles say the bid is for "100% Ownership", not 100% control....

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38555310/qatari-sheikh-committed-man-united-buyout-source
https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/qatars-sheikh-jassim-set-submit-third-bid-manchester-united-guardian-2023-04-28/#:~:text=Sheikh Jassim's offer falls short,worth around 5 billion pounds.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...jassim-manchester-united-friday-ultimatum-bid

The idea is that once The Glazers have accepted their price of a Jassim bid, the minatory shareholders will be forced to accept it....
How Sheikh Jassim's takeover of Man Utd would work after deal for Glazers' 69 per cent

That the club is listed on the New York stock exchange rather than London's FTSE makes it far easier for the Glazers and prospective buyers, explains Dr Naaguesh Appadu, senior research fellow at Bayes Business School.
“If we’re talking about a firm listed on the UK stock exchange, if someone buys 75 per cent of the firm it can be delisted and then when you reach 90 per cent of the company you own can squeeze out the remaining 10 per cent. But that’s in the UK,” Appadu says.
“However if it’s on the US stock exchange, 51 per cent is enough for the firm to take a decision on the rest of the shareholdings. If there’s a proposition to take over more than 51 per cent, the 31 per cent won’t have any say.
“If part of the 31 per cent might not accept to sell their shareholdings, whoever is going to buy the Glazers’ 69 per cent will still control the company and shareholdings. Therefore if ever the remaining shareholders want to buy shares it’ll be at the original price - they had a choice to sell it but never sold it so then won’t have that choice."
The minority owners can argue about the price their shares are sold for, a process known as dissent, but they are unable to do much more than demand some extra money.

“There can be no resistance," Appadu adds. "They don’t have the power. The Glazers, even if most of their shares are leveraged, own 69 per cent and that means the rest don’t control the firm.”

So you are right in saying the minority shareholders don't have to sell. But they wont do this because they love the Jassim bid for circa $6mil at circa $33 per share. Absolutely brilliant for a share that is currently worth $19.

What they dont want is Ineos working out a sweet deal that keeps Joel and Avram in and does not lead to an offer of their Class A shares.
I dont claim to know this for certain, but if Ineos could buy only the 4 other Glazers out at the same offer, or slightly more than Qatar is offering (circa $35 per share) he would and they would take it, on the provision that those class B shares retain their status.

And this is exactly why the hedge funds are threating legal action The Glazers if they allow Ineos to only buy Class B shares....
Man United takeover drama may end up in court – Breakingviews Reuters
Man Utd takeover: Sir Jim Ratcliffe facing ‘legal battle’ in big Sheikh Jassim boost | Football | Sport | Express.co.uk

The minority investors, hedge funds and individual speculators are desperate for a 100% offer as without that, their stock plummets. $19 is already inflated - pre takeover talk, shares were $12.

Why else do you think the share prices soars when there is pro Jassim news and sinks when Ineos look to be favorites?
 
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All very well laid out, but you still have not given us a source that confirms that the £5bil for 100% Jassim bid is just for the 69% Glazer owned stock.

You appendixes are all very nice, but where are your sources to back up the statements?

Please don't tell me you are basing this just on what the Cardiff City chairman said here Mehmet Dalman: Cardiff City chairman hails best transfer window of his tenure - BBC Sport

He raises the United sale as example of why his club may be worth 100mil in this climate....

"Manchester United are going to announce their sale at £7.2bn-7.3bn, which is roughly 10 times their revenue.
"Two or three years ago, we might have been talking about selling Cardiff for about £20m or £30m but now you're going to have to look at £90m or £100m. Valuations [of Championship clubs] have all stretched.


So, of course he is inflating those numbers! These figures could be plucked from anywhere. And you're telling us the Cardiff City chairman "clearly has contacts with the Glazers" ? Evidence for this please?

If as you say...



That would be around a $9bil total valuation. Current market cap is 3.1bil at $19 a share. So you're saying Jassim is going be paying circa $60 a share ? No where has that been discussed.

It has been reported that...

"£5billion bid equates to $32.5 per share; current market price is $18.85"
https://theathletic.com/4524654/202...atcliffe-sheikh-jassim-and-what-were-hearing/

Every single one of these articles say the bid is for "100% Ownership", not 100% control....

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38555310/qatari-sheikh-committed-man-united-buyout-source
https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/qatars-sheikh-jassim-set-submit-third-bid-manchester-united-guardian-2023-04-28/#:~:text=Sheikh Jassim's offer falls short,worth around 5 billion pounds.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...jassim-manchester-united-friday-ultimatum-bid

The idea is that once The Glazers have accepted their price of a Jassim bid, the minatory shareholders will be forced to accept it....
How Sheikh Jassim's takeover of Man Utd would work after deal for Glazers' 69 per cent

That the club is listed on the New York stock exchange rather than London's FTSE makes it far easier for the Glazers and prospective buyers, explains Dr Naaguesh Appadu, senior research fellow at Bayes Business School.
“If we’re talking about a firm listed on the UK stock exchange, if someone buys 75 per cent of the firm it can be delisted and then when you reach 90 per cent of the company you own can squeeze out the remaining 10 per cent. But that’s in the UK,” Appadu says.
“However if it’s on the US stock exchange, 51 per cent is enough for the firm to take a decision on the rest of the shareholdings. If there’s a proposition to take over more than 51 per cent, the 31 per cent won’t have any say.
“If part of the 31 per cent might not accept to sell their shareholdings, whoever is going to buy the Glazers’ 69 per cent will still control the company and shareholdings. Therefore if ever the remaining shareholders want to buy shares it’ll be at the original price - they had a choice to sell it but never sold it so then won’t have that choice."
The minority owners can argue about the price their shares are sold for, a process known as dissent, but they are unable to do much more than demand some extra money.

“There can be no resistance," Appadu adds. "They don’t have the power. The Glazers, even if most of their shares are leveraged, own 69 per cent and that means the rest don’t control the firm.”

So you are right in saying the minority shareholders don't have to sell. But they wont do this because they love the Jassim bid for circa $6mil at circa $33 per share. Absolutely brilliant for a share that is currently worth $19.

What they dont want is Ineos working out a sweet deal that keeps Joel and Avram in and does not lead to an offer of their Class A shares.
I dont claim to know this for certain, but if Ineos could buy only the 4 other Glazers out at the same offer, or slightly more than Qatar is offering (circa $35 per share) he would and they would take it, on the provision that those class B shares retain their status.

And this is exactly why the hedge funds are threating legal action The Glazers if they allow Ineos to only buy Class B shares....
Man United takeover drama may end up in court – Breakingviews Reuters
Man Utd takeover: Sir Jim Ratcliffe facing ‘legal battle’ in big Sheikh Jassim boost | Football | Sport | Express.co.uk

The minority investors, hedge funds and individual speculators are desperate for a 100% offer as without that, their stock plummets. $19 is already inflated - pre takeover talk, shares were $12.

Why else do you think the share prices soars when there is pro Jassim news and sinks when Ineos look to be favorites?


I’m so bored of backing this up with actual proofs so you can go back through he pages I will stay silent until it all comes out then I’m going to be the most obnoxious a….hole on the thread for all those users that just don’t get how greedy the Glazers are and how much they actually want, we have a chairmen of Cardiff who oversaw the LBO in 2005 confirming what they want £7.3 billion for 100% of a full sale yes they want one and half times the value that Forbes valued the club at which incidentally is $6 billion, they want 150% of that value check in Forbes or go through previous pages I refuse to state any more until we have actual figures released of the M&A be it 25% minority from the Rat or 100% from sports-washing FC !


For the record the market cap is share value only 163 million shares at $19 but that does not include the 43 acres of land in the Glazers name or future broadcasting and merchandising deals !


https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/?sh=3d78b02913f9

Please read through how Forbes evaluate the club and the only people who can affect a change of owner is the Glazers so they want a huge premium to relinquish control

So be ready for when the actual figures are released for the sale or no sale.
 
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Not a helpful comment, but we are not going to be a serious football club until the Glazers sell.
 
Weird comment.
His clothes are decent. I was honestly impressed. Looks like he's been shopping at All Saints.

Avram_Glazer-8jpg-JS848633995.jpg


His wife on the other hand, ouch. Looks like he's been fishing in the same gene pool.

But weird to comment on his clothes. He's just out and about in NYC.

His wife looks like his sister. Alabama style. His kid though...that's a weird looking baby. Alabama style baby.
 
Yeah it was only a joke to be fair. Although to be fair owning United and turning round a fallen giant will look better on the world stage than owning spurs.

Financially though yeah spurs make more sense.
Just an observation on your post would a buyout of spurs by an Arab national be popular with certain members of the spurs fan base
 
I’m so bored of backing this up with actual proofs so you can go back through he pages I will stay silent until it all comes out then I’m going to be the most obnoxious a….hole on the thread for all those users that just don’t get how greedy the Glazers are and how much they actually want, we have a chairmen of Cardiff who oversaw the LBO in 2005 confirming what they want £7.3 billion for 100% of a full sale yes they want one and half times the value that Forbes valued the club at which incidentally is $6 billion, they want 150% of that value check in Forbes or go through previous pages I refuse to state any more until we have actual figures released of the M&A be it 25% minority from the Rat or 100% from sports-washing FC !


For the record the market cap is share value only 163 million shares at $19 but that does not include the 43 acres of land in the Glazers name or future broadcasting and merchandising deals !

https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/?sh=3d78b02913f9

Please read through how Forbes evaluate the club and the only people who can affect a change of owner is the Glazers so they want a huge premium to relinquish control

So be ready for when the actual figures are released for the sale or no sale.

Not asking for much here mate.

You said the Qatar bid of circa $6blil is for only 69% of the total club value. I asked you to show anything that confirms this, and you have come up with nothing but a petty "I’m so bored of backing this up with actual proofs"

It is "actual proofs" that we are need to have a constructive discussion.

A one liner from the Chairman of Cardiff City isnt proof of anything. Nor was your statement that the chairman of Cardiff City had "clearly has contacts with the Glazers" ?

I looked through your posts. You have changed your tune.....

Finally confirmed that £5-5.1bn bid is for the total sale of the club makes total sense market cap is currently $3.27bn with $20.05 per share and falling. For the record 69% of this is $4.4bn twice the market value for their controlling shares. More than a fair price for six entitled goblins who inherited Daddy’s leveraged. Buy out of the world’s most famous football club, oops I meant soccer club. If this goes through it will be reported at £5.75bn because of £635m debt which will also be paid as part of the transaction. That is a world record $7.3bn, The Raine group should be telling them if the club had zero debt, they may well of got £6bn but this is a fair price in the current market.

I think you are absolutely right with this post here. Glazers will get around "$4.4bn twice the market value for their controlling shares"

Or, do you have a source that you can share that tells us otherwise?
 
If we get another poor result against Brentford and we get nothing on this during the following mid-October international break (thus debunking the Neil Custis article from August), a new rock bottom will have been achieved.
 
If we get another poor result against Brentford and we get nothing on this during the following mid-October international break (thus debunking the Neil Custis article from August), a new rock bottom will have been achieved.
Don’t expect anyone expecting Custis to be right here. There’s been zilch since his article. Hasn’t even double downed.
 
Not asking for much here mate.

You said the Qatar bid of circa $6blil is for only 69% of the total club value. I asked you to show anything that confirms this, and you have come up with nothing but a petty "I’m so bored of backing this up with actual proofs"

It is "actual proofs" that we are need to have a constructive discussion.

A one liner from the Chairman of Cardiff City isnt proof of anything. Nor was your statement that the chairman of Cardiff City had "clearly has contacts with the Glazers" ?

I looked through your posts. You have changed your tune.....



I think you are absolutely right with this post here. Glazers will get around "$4.4bn twice the market value for their controlling shares"

Or, do you have a source that you can share that tells us otherwise?

Genuinely that post was a long time ago because originally most including me believed the £6 billion was for the whole club then I spoke to a few inside traders from my experience of working at sun capital who said I was wrong and I was wrong, Tom the Journalist is a good source but there are many more who have all confirmed in the last 2/3 months not 5/6 months ago that the Glazers want £6bn to relinquish control. I admit initially I thought just like you that they would only get 69% of the overall bid but after being educated by multiple financial experts I looked in greater detail and found it that this was the truth.


https://www.cityam.com/why-manchest...-asking-price-despite-cristiano-ronaldo-exit/

This was way back in November when people started to realise that they had assumed wrongly that the Glazers wanted £6 billion for 100% of the club rather than to sell their controlling stake
 
Not asking for much here mate.

You said the Qatar bid of circa $6blil is for only 69% of the total club value. I asked you to show anything that confirms this, and you have come up with nothing but a petty "I’m so bored of backing this up with actual proofs"

It is "actual proofs" that we are need to have a constructive discussion.

A one liner from the Chairman of Cardiff City isnt proof of anything. Nor was your statement that the chairman of Cardiff City had "clearly has contacts with the Glazers" ?

I looked through your posts. You have changed your tune.....



I think you are absolutely right with this post here. Glazers will get around "$4.4bn twice the market value for their controlling shares"

Or, do you have a source that you can share that tells us otherwise?

You do know that under all the current strict NDAs no one not even the partisan British press actually has all the factual bids, I will not answer or correspond any more until they’re is a conclusion and then we’ll discuss just why the process ended the way it did because of the glazers greed.

For the last time they want £6 billion to relinquish control but they might also take £1.5 billion to sell 25% of those 113 million class B shares.
 
Genuinely that post was a long time ago because originally most including me believed the £6 billion was for the whole club then I spoke to a few inside traders from my experience of working at sun capital who said I was wrong and I was wrong, Tom the Journalist is a good source but there are many more who have all confirmed in the last 2/3 months not 5/6 months ago that the Glazers want £6bn to relinquish control. I admit initially I thought just like you that they would only get 69% of the overall bid but after being educated by multiple financial experts I looked in greater detail and found it that this was the truth.


https://www.cityam.com/why-manchest...-asking-price-despite-cristiano-ronaldo-exit/

This was way back in November when people started to realise that they had assumed wrongly that the Glazers wanted £6 billion for 100% of the club rather than to sell their controlling stake

Fair enough on your change of mind.

You broke down well why you think it to be the way you do, but quite honestly, no other journalist or report has done the same. The CityAM article seems to be a bit of a speculative finger in the air at a time when the stock was popping. As you say, that was November.

Also not doubting your sources or experience. I work at the US's largest bank and formally a UK Magic Circle law firm, so have some experience also.

But I do feel that valuing MUFC at 3x the current market cap is just not realistic or obtainable.

We will see in the fullness of time.:)
 
Fair enough on your change of mind.

You broke down well why you think it to be the way you do, but quite honestly, no other journalist or report has done the same. The CityAM article seems to be a bit of a speculative finger in the air at a time when the stock was popping. As you say, that was November.

Also not doubting your sources or experience. I work at the US's largest bank and formally a UK Magic Circle law firm.

But I do feel that valuing MUFC at 3x the current market cap is just not realistic or obtainable.

We will see in the fullness of time.

I really got schooled in this by a top financier because like you I genuinely believed that £6bn must be for the full sale however if you look at Forbes valuation from the mirror article you linked it explains why the club is valued at £4.8 billion, brand, future marketing etc.

The issue here is the only people that can initiate the sale are the Glazers, INEOS have tried with multiple varied bids and the latest for £1.5 billion, that’s his offer is for 25% of the Class B shares so let’s say 25% of 110m 27.5 million shares at premium of $40 that’s $1.1 billion
INEOS then agree to buy 25% of Class A currently now 54 so 13.5 million shares at $35 that’s $473m. Ratcliffe now owns 25% of the club but he’s only spent $1.573 billon that’s not the $1.835 billion which translates to £1.5 billion that’s a $262m shortfall or £215m discrepancy, this would be the amount that INEOS would pay to the Glazers to help with Cashflow and debt management, providing he has a concrete put and call M&A contract that guarantees him the ownership by 2029.

I believed maybe wrongly so that this was a vain attempt to admit defeat, I’m not so sure anymore because he’s would be given them £150m each now with the promise that they will eventually maybe receive 5 times that amount but also giving them a £200m stopgap cash facility to stop the debt controlling the club and still allow them full control!
 
Watching PSG get comprehensively shafted by Newcastle on Wednesday did make me realise that Qatari ownership isn't necessarily a golden ticket to success. I still do believe it's the best option available for us, I just hope they learn from their big mistakes at PSG.

They have to implement a structure geared towards making us a world class high pressing team, as that seems to be the only way to succeed now. Why they didn't do that at PSG I have no idea.
 
Any news on when the year end accounts are being published? Heard the deadline was beginning of this week (even that is a later than normal submission).

Could be late for a number of reasons, but it seems a bit odd.
 
Watching PSG get comprehensively shafted by Newcastle on Wednesday did make me realise that Qatari ownership isn't necessarily a golden ticket to success. I still do believe it's the best option available for us, I just hope they learn from their big mistakes at PSG.

They have to implement a structure geared towards making us a world class high pressing team, as that seems to be the only way to succeed now. Why they didn't do that at PSG I have no idea.
developing a football brand in Ligue 1 has difficulties and requires investments in famous footballers, creating this type of team that works from a marketing point of view easily leads to problems on the pitch due to the attitude and ego that many players of this level they bring, until last year they also had to convey advertising for the World Cup, now they are trying to create a more functional team but the change of project takes time, their planning however has led them to dominate the French championship and to become a club rated 5 billion while before it wasn't even worth 100 million, United's management would be completely different
 
Any news on when the year end accounts are being published? Heard the deadline was beginning of this week (even that is a later than normal submission).

Could be late for a number of reasons, but it seems a bit odd.
Delayed. All the bean counters are injured.
 
Fair enough on your change of mind.

You broke down well why you think it to be the way you do, but quite honestly, no other journalist or report has done the same. The CityAM article seems to be a bit of a speculative finger in the air at a time when the stock was popping. As you say, that was November.

Also not doubting your sources or experience. I work at the US's largest bank and formally a UK Magic Circle law firm, so have some experience also.

But I do feel that valuing MUFC at 3x the current market cap is just not realistic or obtainable.

We will see in the fullness of time.:)

That’s the thing it’s but 1.5 times the value it’s actually 1.5-1.6 tines the Forbes valuation, market cap as you know, working in banking is a speculative valuation of all of the shares, it does not take into account assets and liabilities of the club and who controls those assets and liabilities, in Nan united case, that is the Glazers who have 69% controlling shares.

I argued just like you with a top financier and he explained very coherently that the Glazers do not only want an enterprise value for their A and B class shares but they also want fair compensation for relinquishing control of the club. He cited the Forbes valuation which lists the club in the following way ;

Matchday - $988m
Broadcasting -$1.991 Bn
Commercial - $2.018 Bn
Brand - $1.003Bn

This Equals a $6Bn valuation by Forbes in May 2023, 2nd only behind Real Madrid. This valuation of £4.8 billion by Forbes was a valuation after debt as well this is why the Raine Group started mention silly numbers like £6-7bn early in the process.


They are looking for an increase of 150% on Forbes valuation and they have an interest in the offer on A class shares as they own 6.9 million of the 54 million available of these as well.

Many inside the financial markets think or suggest something was agreed with Qatar in July/August and then the Glazers moved the goal posts and this is why SJ is currently coming out with their strong comments that they will not increase their bid!

Please look through the Forbes valuation it’s actually ridiculous how they’ve valued united at $6 billion.
 
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