You are probably right mate.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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You are probably right mate.
They did say the opposite a few months before that, though. I reckon Liverpool are pretty much for sale but they’re saying not because of the United situation (for whatever reason). Doesn’t necessarily mean Ineos or Qatar will move on to Liverpool.
The Elliot thing I don't understand. What did they do for Milan when they went in? It was a loan rather than a stake, right? That's how they mananged to take the club? What do they expect for their stake in United?
10 times? Another poster here estimated 200+ times !
And why should it be corruption? He made tens of billions for the QIA on an annual basis, only normal for him to get a decent cut of that
Then in 2013 he used that cash to set up his own private fund which he's been investing and growing for a decade now in everything from natural resources:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-heritageoil-mergers-idUKKBN0DG0K620140430
To real estate:
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...le-over-claridges-hotel-from-belfast-to-qatar
Bizarre that you still think he doesn't have the money when it's absolutely clear that he does.
I guess the paranoia sets in when you tie this in with what Keegan said in his article last week about "sale of club hopes fade" prior to second Ratcliffe and Qatari bids going in.
But then I think about the Laurie Whitwell statement Qatari's send people "to secure an agreement".
It is a very difficult situation to read at the moment. Avram Glazer seems to be the stumbling block!
Or he's playing it like the sharp operator we've always known him to be.
Yep.
Its neither "absolutely clear" nor is it consistent with how hedge or investment funds work. The person running the fund takes a small percentage of the profits to maintain the infrastructure and salaries required to operate the fund - as explained to you previously by @MTF, who works in the industry.
Therefore, this idea that Jassim's father is a: that wealthy and b: acquired said wealth through legitimate means is completely devoid of any evidence. Further, all the money of wealthy Qataris is tied in some way to the state because Qatar has no industry capable of generating such wealth other than industries owned or operated by the Qatari state. Therefore all the money is state backed, and likewise, any money Thani is bidding with is tantamount to a state backed Qatari bid to buy Man United.
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Time for Avram to dip his hand in his pocket and clear off all that debt if he’s staying then.
More chance of me buying united than that happening.
More chance of me buying united than that happening.
Nearly 1000 pages of drama?
I can see every home game being called off through fans rioting.
Actually it says he is acting for the family trust which, as oft repeated by apologists in remarkably similar language, is a rather large family. So it could be anyone.
If the extent of your 'research', which you claim is better than the respected finacial and business analysts at Forbes, is an article in The Standard and a page on manchester.co.uk, then at best you are overvaluing it.
I'm not trying to pick a fight but the status of your account lends a level of credibility to anyone viewing your posts. That you are regularly posting misinformation as fact is a little troubling.
I already replied to that yesterday and your boy MTF went very quiet when I presented him with irrefutable evidence that HBJ is many many many times more wealthy than you can possibly imagine
I actually suggest to you that you do a bit of reading into the history of HBJ, there is lots of info out there (I assume you have not read the links I've presented to you) - it's pretty clear to me that you don't understand the level of global power and wealth we are talking about here
Why don't you summarize it here. Where would any wealthy Qatari get their money from if not somehow sourced from the Qatari state ?
I'd rather the club were owned by the Saudi state than Elliott and the Glazers, let alone Qatar.
No it doesn't say that at all.
Al Mirqab Capital is specifically HBJ's family office - he started it and his son (our own Sheikh Jassim) managed it for many years - he's owns those personally.
Feel free to do your own research - there is a wealth of info out there on HBJ with countless sources to back up exactly what I'm saying.
And I posted sources that are not behind paywalls - there is loads in the FT, Bloomberg etc too
https://www.ft.com/content/98477922-0227-11e6-99cb-83242733f755
https://www.ft.com/content/43a54248-2995-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7
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Saudi? I'd rather be owned by Mordor than the Glazers paired with a Hedge Fund. They will wring every last penny out of the club before they are finished.
I've maintained for long this is the likeliest outcome, in my opinion. It stems from my belief all of this was never about investment into the club, but instead a way to resolve the dispute between those Glazers that want to sell and those that don't. Each of the Glazers could sell a part of their stake, how much percentage will vary between each of them. Some might pull out entirely. Elliot in turn get part ownership of the club, alongside the remaining Glazers, likely Joel and Avram. The class shares system could be restructured to allow for this. But Elliot would delegate all running of the club to the Glazers anyway as they aren't in the business of running clubs, and would likely have many contingencies within the contract for every possible scenario.
That way everyone gets what they want, more or less. It's ultimately a game of compromise. Those Glazers that want out compromise by getting somewhat less money, as I imagine Elliot would offer less than Qatar for their shares, but resolve the impasse and get money now, particularly if it's true some of their other businesses are struggling. Though, you shouldn't count out some sort of an in-family deal between the Outers and the Inners to make up the difference in cash as well. Joel and Avram on the other hand compromise by taking on an increased risk and ceding some power, but they remain part owners and in charge of the club. Elliot always win the end. If the Glazers succeed, club value increases. If they fail horribly, Elliot could likely oust them and strip the club, or just sell it on. Of course, they could also agree mutually to strip the club completely in due time and split the money accordingly. The club owns many assets, not the least of which a lot of tasty land.
My point is there are many, many ways for a deal to be reached between Glazers and Elliot, some we can't even think about or be aware of. As it stands, I think this will be the outcome here, unless Qatar come in with an offer that no sane person will reject. And as it happens, the Glazers have made sure to emphasize that point - £6bn.
It's what I believe, at least. But I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
Yeah. Once we get sold it gives them a better idea of how much they are worth.
Now lets factor in all the business and political analysis of how things work in Qatar . Even if you're right (I think you're being deliberately misleading), he's pretty shite at getting stuff done. Here he says he spent 2 Trillion to get rid of Assad:
It’s an incredibly worrying thought.
Was it Elliot or Chinese owners that the AC Milan fans forced out?
Realistically if United doesn’t get sold then that’s what’s going to have to happen. Boycott matches.
Realistically if United doesn’t get sold then that’s what’s going to have to happen. Boycott matches.
Quite a lot of people who say they support Man Utd don't actually support Man Utd, they just want the reflected glory above all costs.
It was both, but by the end it was Elliot. By that point, they had ousted the Chinese guy after he defaulted on his payment. Standard stuff for Elliot it seems, but it's what you get for making a deal with these lot. That being said, I think they went in and financed the current owner as well, but this needs confirmation and I'm too lazy to do it.
Start with these 2 articles - gives a good insight
https://www.ft.com/content/98477922-0227-11e6-99cb-83242733f755
https://www.ft.com/content/43a54248-2995-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7
That’s this thread back down to 30 pages!
I've already read them. The first one doesn't paint a particularly complimentary picture of the guy. Neither article proves he in any way has the wealth you have been suggesting.
The family as a whole are wealthy, but they consist of 8,000 members. This guy being one of them.
It would be the most Glazer-ownership thing ever for United to finally get...not sold but bled even drier by vulture capitalist scum like Elliot. I've given up thinking protests will do anything, but if that is really the choice the vile leprechauns make then OT should be emptied by the fans.
Elliot would ruin United. Utterly.
Elliot would ruin United. Utterly.
No news is good news, it's somewhat questionable that the sale of a highly valued business asset would be drip fed to the media as if it's the same parameters as a transfer via clubs.
Yet when he gets into any legal trouble with the deals mentioned he claims diplomatic immunity as an actor for the state of Qatar. Whatever your opinion on the source of these funds, how anyone could read those articles or anything about that man and want him anywhere near Manchester United beggars belief.
I'm glad you are taking some time to understand what level of global power and wealth HBJ is involved in
keep doing your research and you will eventually realise that I am right that this family can easily afford to buy our club
Elliot forced the Chinese guy out after he defaulted on the loan payments and took control of the club. Milan then went from strength to strength and eventually won the league before being sold to another US hedge fund.
I understand it as well as I possibly can and yes, his family can afford to buy United because they are the ruling family of Qatar.
There are many assets; think barca and their levers.
You cannot have read them both if that's your conclusion - the second article is very clear that these are deals he's doing personally for his own family office and that article alone mentions around €4bn value over 3 deals (Heritage Oil, Corte Ingles, Deutsche Bank)
https://www.ft.com/content/43a54248-2995-11e5-8613-e7aedbb7bdb7
Remember it is his son, Sheikh Jassim (the same one who wants to buy us) that managed this private family office for many years so we are talking his immediate family group
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But if you boycott and united starts to struggle financially, then wouldn't that fall right into Elliott's hands --- when the Glazers struggle to pay what they owe them?
I have indeed read them both. The properties and investments in article 2 are from 2015 and have no explanatory value as to his current wealth, nor proof he has the money to buy United outright. His son would have far less wealth than his old man.
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One would think this would be very easy to concede. Their money is sourced from the Qatari state, hence its a Qatari state bid. Admitting such an obvious fact would of course force proponents of the Qatari bid to defend the actions of the Qatari state, which is not a road they want to go down.
It's anti-vax level reasoning.
Again feel free to do your own research and you will find that HBJ still personally owns all those things within the 'family office' plus obviously a whole raft of other businesses, real estate, art etc
You are right it's all about HBJ though and Sheikh Jassim's wealth essentially comes from inheriting what his dad built within the 'family office' - he has been involved in the day to day management of this private family fund from a young age though
I guess this is his opportunity to come out from his father's shadow for the first time
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