What do you mean by "own research" if not for information already available on the web ?
Club Sale | It’s done!
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What do you mean by "own research" if not for information already available on the web ?
You are just dealing in semantics now which is a waste of my time - previously you and many others claimed (based on utter nonsense from Forbes) that HBJ couldn't possibly put this kind of money together privately
Now you are beginning to realise that they absolutely do have the funds privately to do this without having to go to the Emir or QIA or QSI (which would be what actually makes it a 'state bid')
FYI I actually couldn't care less if it was a state bid, makes no difference to me whatsoever. Others meanwhile seem to have some kind of moral issue with that so I thought it was worth exploring in more detail hence the research.
Im really not concerned about the Elliot rumours and I’m not sure why others are getting worried by it.
From a financial point of view, it makes no sense when compared to the other 2 offers.
Glazers reducing their stake in the club and then getting even less dividends per year makes very little sense compared to taking a very lucrative up front sale of the club.
It’s like being offered £100k up front and then £10k per year or have £50m up front right now.
From a financial point of view, it makes no sense when compared to the other 2 offers.
Glazers reducing their stake in the club and then getting even less dividends per year makes very little sense compared to taking a very lucrative up front sale of the club.
It’s like being offered £100k up front and then £10k per year or have £50m up front right now.
I don't think any of us can comment as we dont have the full facts of the bids or even if the bids are genuine from certain people mentioned.
I don't trust any of the journos that have been very vocal on this whole saga. They are just chancers in my opinion and they don't know anywhere near as much as they are telling people.
Yeah to see a tier 1 saying this is horrendous and is definitely making me doubt full sale. Ratcliffe or Jassim have to save us from this nightmare scenario before it becomes reality.
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Yep it's now or never
This thread would have 2 pages max! We would have missed out on revelations of the morality police, who the real United fans are, dick-comparing contests etc.Man City's £300m splurge to get Etihad on par with rivals: Champions plan to up capacity to 61,000, with North Stand revamp to take Abu Dhabi owners' infrastructure spend to £1bn
- Redevelopment plans will see Etihad's capacity increase to around 61,000
- The work is set for a November start in the hope of being ready for 2025-26
We've had external criticism for a long time. It's the reason why we have slogans such as, "hated, adored but never ignored", etc.
We all know Manchester United news sell, and negative news sells even more, unfortunately.
But hey, as supporters of this great club, know nothing else.
And what does the club get? The whole point of this exercise isn't glazers need the money it's that man utd need it.
The glazer siblings who want out are not going to give up 100's of millions so that their 2 idiot siblings who have taken the most successful club in England and turned into a money draining spurs esque team can continue to run into the ground.
The math doesn't check out as much as glazers want everyone to believe it does. Say Elliot are truly crazy and value the club at glazer's 6bn valuation for their shares. That means the club as a whole is valued at 8.7bn. That's 87 mn that glazers lose for every % they give up. Say they sell 12% and get 1bn to invest in stadium and debt and divide it up equally every sibling gives up 2%. That's a straightup loss of 175mn per sibling.
Now if we assume the worst case scenario for glazers and imagine that neither sjr nor Qatar agree to make bids higher than 5bn for their shares. That means every % gets 72 mn. So say a sibling owns 12%, that means under the worst case scenario they get nearly 870mn right now.
If that sibling goes with the minority offer he needs the club to be valued at 10.5bn to break even and if we even apply insane growth to utd, that still is going to take atleast 5 years to achieve and nothing to go wrong.
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I've read a few posters criticise all the reporters who said the "bids are in", when they weren't. Saying they're clueless, etc. But then, when the same reporters say things like they've heard Elliott look likely, then they believe it.
Crazy.
Crazy.
true however forgive our fear of seeing the Glazers remaining and with Elliott on board of all people.
A deal between Elliott and the Glazers is possible. The former would love it TBH. They'll probably provide investment which would be attached to an endless list of clauses that would see them become United's owners if not respected. Elliott are ruthless. They would probably force the Glazers to sell the stadium's name, they'll impose a strict regime on how money is spent and they'll make sure that every person employed is needed else he'll be sacked. However they are not stupid either. In the end the biggest losers will probably be the Glazers.
Irrespective of that United will be sold in the near future. The Elliott group would want a quick return for their investment.
Irrespective of that United will be sold in the near future. The Elliott group would want a quick return for their investment.
Not 10 times, he is worth at least 40 times the Forbes 1.2 b valuation. I believe it is more. His mirqab group alone own assets of more than 50b usd. I know it is difficult to find it in English sources. But if you can search in Arabic you will find multiple sources about it. I can put one if you like. He is more than capable of buying the club by himself and investing in infrastructure and transfers.
True. However, I feel once it's known that they are staying, and Elliot are the investors, the fans will riot so much, that before the ink has even dried up, the contract between the 2 will be ripped up.
Also, I just can't see Eliiot buying out the 4 siblings. A lot of money for potential little return.
If you have an Arabic link from a credible, non-Qatar affiliated outlet, I'd love to see it.
And no way anyone is coming back in the future to buy them out, when it's potentially more valuable
Elliott had taken down nations mate, do you think think that they'll care what the likes of Wumminator or Devilish think?
You can apply this observation on most of the posters here. Believe any tweet which rules in your agenda and laugh off any tweet which goes against your agenda (albeit from the same source). Unsure if the usual culprits have any self awareness at all.
That's funny since they cant fill the stadium.
What I'm getting from this is that it's an option for us to share the ground new Old Trafford is built.
Why else would they increase their already never full stadium?
Some awful news to wake up to. The Elliot/Glazer option is far and away the worst of all.
Are we to believe Simon Stone who had a chat with some people in Budapest?
City council owns the stadium don't they? If so why invest 300million into something you don't own?
The European Club Association met there over the last few days, so that may be where he has spoken to people.
So basically a chit chat?
Listened to the podcast he said two separate things one that Elliot have made bid for minority stake without giving any details about the stake and the feeling amongst the some senior people at other clubs who are members of ECA basically outsiders looking in his own words that Glazers are staying he didn't even claim it was credible or information from any source just an observation .
Elliot would love it. Joel and Avram not so much. They're the two I'm talking about.
In any case, even they're not so stupid to team up with Elliott.
This.
And unfortunately, it's the same argument recycled. Like groundhog day.
With the results out today, hopefully something new to talk about and how much the Glazers need the money.
If the timeline is short enough, the likes of Jassim and SJR should still be around. However, unfortunately for the two brothers, there won't be as much money on the table offered.
There's always empty seats, but every home game's mostly sold out. So somebodies buying the tickets, which of course count towards income for FFP.
Punctuation is your friend with benefits.
The argument is a bit flawed because you cannot compare running ME sovereign wealth funds with Norway's. Norway is ran by a democratic-elected government where financial transparency is key. The hiring process for the position of manager of the wealth fund is made public (which had some controversy when the current one got hired) and neither the PM nor the Royal family for that matter is involved with the investment decisions. The salary is also something like less than 1m USD per annum so it's more about the prestige of the role with the network it brings. The current manager even had to sell his shares in the investment fund he owned to take up the role. ME sovereign wealth funds is pretty much exclusively ran by high-ranking members of their respective royal families and where there is a severe lack of financial transparency.
I agree it's hard to find evidence for either side of the argument, but we do know that the Forbes valuation is wide of the mark (due to Forbes' criterias which is not compatible with financial secrecy) and that HBJ has been heavily involved in building QIA from scratch to one the biggest sovereign wealth funds in the world while at the same time being key in everything from international investments deals to brokering diplomatic issues (where no doubt money has been involved). He and his family (no, not the entire Al Thani clan) owns the Al-Mirqab Capital Group which is hard to find key financial data about but at the same time has been behind some significant deals over the years. As Financial Times put it: " HBJ’s wealth is put at $1.3bn by Forbes, but people in Doha estimate it at many multiples of that."
You are right that pretty much all the wealthy Qataris have built the wealth on the back of the State's rise to a worldwide energy supplier but on the surface it seems that HBJ has built his family's wealth on diversied investments over the years. Is that legitimate? I guess you could say no from a moral perspective where the idea that the country's wealth belongs to the people but that's hardly the reality in countries with such ruling governments. As for corruption, there's no way anyone with that size of wealth has managed to escape that route when amassing the fortune.
Is the purchase still state-backed? Hard to say but you cannot rule out it being a family investment. What no doubt is true is that such investment would have the blessing of the State because it aligns perfectly with Qatar's vision of using sports to promote the country. Hence why the State will probably get involved one way or the other down the line and also why, unlike Malaga, they would never allow United to end up in the gutter.
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Confirmation bias is human nature and even more so in social media.
I'm kind of glad that Elliot are buying the club as it's the option that enables us to moan the most
Simon stones opinion should be the least to worry about he won’t ever step away from the club’s official line.
Simon Stone gets way more credit than he deserves just because who his employer is. His history as a United correspondent for the BBC shows that he pretty much only comes out with club's own info. The BBC is known for triple-checking everything before publishing, but Stone doesn't seem to be bothered to do any serious journalistic work at all.
Triple check is a nice way of saying he confirms news after the club has already confirmed it
Triple check is a nice way of saying he confirms news after the club has already confirmed it
I mean the BBC in general. What you are saying is true for Stone though.
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