Can we possibly pin this to every thread page going forward?
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Can we possibly pin this to every thread page going forward?
What an absolute charlatan. Couldn’t even speak two sentences with confidence that he has the finances or backing of some sort.
Nothing screams louder publicity stunt than saying its not a publicity stunt.
The fact someone is bidding 5bn makes what Messier wrote all the more compelling.
There's just not that much meat left on the bones for the Glazers to pick off without additional ingredients and they ain't got the money for that dish.
There's just not that much meat left on the bones for the Glazers to pick off without additional ingredients and they ain't got the money for that dish.
Anything leaked to the media by any bidder or the club has one purpose and one purpose only - to improve that party's posturing in negotiating the transaction documents.
In other words, every single tweet or news media article you have read about this process over the past few months is utter trash, barely worthy of your attention. The bidders' respective press releases are an exception to this rule, since they have specifics on their respective plans for the club - which are important.
I think it's pretty obvious that if one of the bidders would like to buy the club more as a plaything than for purposes of getting the largest financial return possible, then it will be that bidder that will eventually wind up the winner. We'll see soon enough if I'm right.
In other words, every single tweet or news media article you have read about this process over the past few months is utter trash, barely worthy of your attention. The bidders' respective press releases are an exception to this rule, since they have specifics on their respective plans for the club - which are important.
I think it's pretty obvious that if one of the bidders would like to buy the club more as a plaything than for purposes of getting the largest financial return possible, then it will be that bidder that will eventually wind up the winner. We'll see soon enough if I'm right.
The Glazers stance is 100% if you don't bid enough we won't let you bid again. Makes total sense
Complicated deals/structures are not really my expertise, as most of the companies I cover for work are big and straightforward (pulverized equity ownership, sometimes some fixed rate or variable rate debt). But hypothetically, if they were looking for an injection of cash from Elliott, one way to do it would be by issuing convertible debt. That's a loan that usually pays a coupon, but at a set date or up until the set date, either the holders of the debt or the company (depends on the deal specifics who has the option) can opt to convert it to shares at a ratio which is determined by the valuation at the time of the deal. The highest bid submitted (maybe with a slight discount because of the notion of control premium) could be used as that valuation for the terms of a convertible bond.
This hypothetical admittedly doesn't solve anything about Joel and Avram buying out the other 4 siblings. That's where you move into the sort of deal structure that's even more complex and honestly I've never had any interaction with. Also this isn't my read on what is most likely at this point, I'm happy to say that I don't fecking know.
It will work only if somehow Arnold can somehow dramatically increase the topline revenues of United whilst reducing the costs somehow. The collateral for the loan will be equity in the United.
Otherwise, its the Glazers paying the loan out of their own pockets in the short run..... and that's as like me being a professional porn star, not the viral kind.
The reason why the possibility of convertible debt comes to mind is because United is a weird asset where it doesn't have the cash flows to justify a $4B+ valuation, probably more in the $2B range if that. So you can't put some $2B worth of debt on it like you could on an asset that does have cashflows to justify a $4B+ valuation, the club probably can't service that much debt on an ongoing basis, especially if it's going to be issued at current (higher than the past decade) rates.
But there are a lot of people (as evidenced by the bids) that are willing to actually pay a lot to own the equity of the club regardless (prestige asset). So that is why a convertible starts to make some sense (again, to do what exactly in terms of primary cash infusion to do anything about infrastructure, or to somehow buyback the siblings, I don't know), as once you grant the conversion option to the bondholder then the interest rate goes way down because of how much the option to convert to equity is worth.
Once again, I have no idea or want to make any sort of guess as to whether this is a scenario actually being considered. Just sharing a bit on one type of financial instrument.
But there are a lot of people (as evidenced by the bids) that are willing to actually pay a lot to own the equity of the club regardless (prestige asset). So that is why a convertible starts to make some sense (again, to do what exactly in terms of primary cash infusion to do anything about infrastructure, or to somehow buyback the siblings, I don't know), as once you grant the conversion option to the bondholder then the interest rate goes way down because of how much the option to convert to equity is worth.
Once again, I have no idea or want to make any sort of guess as to whether this is a scenario actually being considered. Just sharing a bit on one type of financial instrument.
Wait... I thought Jassim didn't exist and was just some scammer. So at least we know he's some top-top Red scammer.
Can’t believe some actually believe the glazers put in funds for transfers. 18 years later and you still haven’t figured it out?
Overall feeling I have now is the Qataris are the only ones capable of the figure the Glazers want, but will they go that far?
Glazers spent 250M backing ETH and this is all the thanks they get?
How do people still believe this shit? They've never put any money in! 17 years and they've invested nothing, all the money that's been spent on transfers is from revenue its nothing to do with the Glazers
250m of United’s own money, generated by United’s revenue, or from a loan taken out on United’s name. The Glazers have not spent a single dime.
Let’s get this straight.
Starting to think these Glazer chaps are bad news.
Yes, but they own the club.
Maybe they're as useless at selling a football club as they are at running it? Demanding wildly inflated fees, incessant leaks, posturing, brinkmanship. Kind of feels like pretty standard Glazer MO. They'll drag it out and scrape every penny possible from the deal but probably take a similar fee to what they were offered months ago. I've taken to mostly ignoring the whole thing at this point. I presume i'll hate the outcome whatever it is.
Bought with a half billion loan from the club.
Let it go Avram.
Posturing by whom? That looks a big climb down from earlier reports of SJ blowing everyone out of the water. Keegan is Qatar's mouthpiece so it's concerning that he is now posting this.
A bit of a meltdown in here last night, eh?
I don't care who owns us, as long as they invest in the stadium and training facilities, and keep increasing the value of the club. We don't need billions for transfers, just a few hundred million, which we've anyway been spending under the Glazers, and will be spending under X or Y. The only way we'd see a huge change in the next couple of years is if SJ buys us. If he doesn't and we end up with SJR, it'll just be more of the same - which is absolutely fine. We don't need to be greedy, 'cause we're United. Regardless of the owner, we will be there or thereabouts.
I don't care who owns us, as long as they invest in the stadium and training facilities, and keep increasing the value of the club. We don't need billions for transfers, just a few hundred million, which we've anyway been spending under the Glazers, and will be spending under X or Y. The only way we'd see a huge change in the next couple of years is if SJ buys us. If he doesn't and we end up with SJR, it'll just be more of the same - which is absolutely fine. We don't need to be greedy, 'cause we're United. Regardless of the owner, we will be there or thereabouts.
The only incentive to staying for the Glazers would be if they can force through the ESL, maybe they're confident of doing that?
Surely if they get funds to invest in infrastructure, then they could just run the club as they've been doing and rest assured that its value will increase over time, ESL or not?
ChatGPT says there's a chance the Glaziers stay and become a better owner.
There once was a family of Glazers,
Whose greed was no secret, no hazers,
They owned Man United,
But the fans were divided,
On their stingy ways, that left them in razors.
Sir Jimmy Ratcliffe and Sheikh Jassim,
Wanted to buy the club and rebuild it with vim,
But the Glazers said no,
We won't let it go,
We'll keep it as a money-making gem.
They raised the ticket prices
And the fans let out their cries and vices,
But the Glazers didn't care,
They just wanted their share,
Of the profits, they were willing to roll the dices.
They thought they could stop signing players,
And the fans would still be their loyal prayer,
But when the team started to lose,
They began to accuse,
The Glazers of being greedy, and not fair.
But the Glazers didn't listen,
They just wanted to make their pockets glisten,
They saw the club as a cash cow,
And they were willing to go pow,
To make sure it would always be theirs, and never bow.
But the fans wouldn't let them get away,
They started to protest, and have their say,
And eventually, the Glazers had to hear,
That the club belonged to the fans, it was clear,
And they had to change their ways, or disappear.
So the Glazers finally listened,
And the fans' wishes were no longer dismissed,
They started to invest in the team,
And the fans began to beam,
For their club was finally living their dream.
There once was a family of Glazers,
Whose greed was no secret, no hazers,
They owned Man United,
But the fans were divided,
On their stingy ways, that left them in razors.
Sir Jimmy Ratcliffe and Sheikh Jassim,
Wanted to buy the club and rebuild it with vim,
But the Glazers said no,
We won't let it go,
We'll keep it as a money-making gem.
They raised the ticket prices
And the fans let out their cries and vices,
But the Glazers didn't care,
They just wanted their share,
Of the profits, they were willing to roll the dices.
They thought they could stop signing players,
And the fans would still be their loyal prayer,
But when the team started to lose,
They began to accuse,
The Glazers of being greedy, and not fair.
But the Glazers didn't listen,
They just wanted to make their pockets glisten,
They saw the club as a cash cow,
And they were willing to go pow,
To make sure it would always be theirs, and never bow.
But the fans wouldn't let them get away,
They started to protest, and have their say,
And eventually, the Glazers had to hear,
That the club belonged to the fans, it was clear,
And they had to change their ways, or disappear.
So the Glazers finally listened,
And the fans' wishes were no longer dismissed,
They started to invest in the team,
And the fans began to beam,
For their club was finally living their dream.
Personally I don't think the funding they'll get will be enough unless they have the ESL to go with it. We'll continue to struggle in the transfer market and fall further behind the likes of City, Chelsea, Newcastle etc. in the coming years.
I don't think there would be any game at Old Trafford next season if the sale doesn't go through.
We've been consistent high-spenders over the last decade, so I don't think that would change. Still, even if you're right, look at Arsenal or even Liverpool. You don't need billions in the market to win. What we need more than new owners is the best scouting department in the world.
Why?The weird thing about ChatGPT is that when I prompt it and get an answer, then it's amazing, but when someone else uses it and gets the same answer then it's too much to read and completely pointless.
Daily toilet flooding
I suspect over time, our high transfer spending isn't sustainable due to the increasingly more expensive debts and loans that we undertake for transfers recently.
We don't need to spend insanely like we've done, though. We just need to spend smart.
With whichever new owners, my hope is that we spend for the purposes of improving the team and not just to sign big names we don't need to sell shirts (or attract sponsors). Also that the spending will be consistent, window after window, to enable the team to be renewed and win titles, not big splurges for the sole purposes of ensuring we get CL football (and thereafter turning off the funding).
Like the winter window? That may be a precursor to our financial future. (Never in my living memory have we had 3 loanee players in a transfer window and no one else.)
You seem to be engaging in wishful thinking that the Glazers are somehow going to blossom into smart, capable owners with the help of a little funding from Elliott or some other hedge fund.
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