Club Sale | It’s done!

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Steve Bruce said:
But if you look at the summer beyond 'We did spend over 200m' headline and analyse what happened then the defence of the Glazers gets kind of weak.

For a start, Anthony, we could have got him for £25-30m cheaper if we went in for him at the start of July. Martinez instead of paying £49m we could have got him for £30-35m again, we waited to long on Timber and Ajax where selling other players so we had to pay an extra £15m plus to get him.

Straight away theirs £40-45m wasted money, just wasted and it's all down to the clowns that the Glazers have put in place to run the club.

So yes your right we're not a bottomless pit of money, but the Glazers persisted with Woodward, Arnold, Murtough etc etc over all these years and they have wasted so much money, so for us to have absolutely no money for a transfer fee is the Glazers fault.
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I get what you mean about Antony but the Martinez/Timber stuff doesn't track with the other info we have on the matter.

Arnold and Murtough haven't been involved in the recruitment stuff until recently. Unfair to them to roll them up with Woodward. One was involved in the commercial side only and the other was dealing with youth and women's team.
 
At this moment any news is basically Qatar or SJR trying to buy some leverage in negotiations. Expect more of this kind of news that “X is prepared to move on” or Glazers looking for minority investment.
 
sglowrider said:
If this is true, then the once mighty Manchester United FC basically becomes just a subsidiary of a conglomerate. How is that any better than being owned by a foundation or state owned?
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It’s the reality, Ineos is the buyer so whether the shares officially sit with an individual or a specific purpose vehicle (a company set up just to buy MUFC), Ineos will hold the reigns and will for all intents and purposes be the holding company of MUFC.

The same applies to Amazon and Apple if they made bids.

It may have no influence on how MUFC is run as it is ultimately it’s own self sustaining entity, but it is a legal reality.

Plant0x84 said:
They could, but why would they? INEOS is a much bigger company with much more revenue than United. That would just be counterproductive.

Also, they could just as well convert the debt into equity and offer shareholding for sale to fans, giving them ownership of the club.

You are correct that there are unknowns about both bids but it disingenuous to tar Qatar hood and INEOS bad just because.
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Ineos may not do that, but remember that directors of companies generally have to act in the best interests of those companies.

So ask yourself, what is in it for Ineos?

I’m not suggesting they’re a bad buyer or that they need to take money from MUFC to service the debt, but it is a very real possibility, as is the sale of shares to raise funds to pay it off, as you suggest.
 
Woziak said:
I never said £40m on one player I said all the players collectively and that has been proven, I understand what your saying but a quick question did Arnold and Murtough waste time chasing a pipe dream of FDJ all summer being photographed on multiple occasions visiting Barcelona FC then at the last moment when they realised he wasn’t coming get lucky with Casemeiro ?

I actually happen to think Arnold giving time might be a quite good CEO however is he and Murtough recognised as being best in class across the Industry?
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Casemiro deal was being worked on for weeks before the news broke is what I remember being the info. So doubtful that you'd call that lucky. Doubt you can just fly in to Madrid and buy one of their best players so easily.
 
I'm pretty sure the likes of Sky Sports and the sorts just put out tweets saying whatever they feel like to keep the interest up. If Qatar wants United, I'm pretty sure they'll make an offer that the Glazers won't refuse.

Glazers are quite literally, as people are saying on here, trying to get as much as they can. INEOS won't outbid Qatar, and the first sign of Qatar starting to walk away, I'd imagine the Glazers will crumble
 
Woziak said:
I never said £40m on one player I said all the players collectively and that has been proven, I understand what your saying but a quick question did Arnold and Murtough waste time chasing a pipe dream of FDJ all summer being photographed on multiple occasions visiting Barcelona FC then at the last moment when they realised he wasn’t coming get lucky with Casemeiro ?

I actually happen to think Arnold giving time might be a quite good CEO however is he and Murtough recognised as being best in class across the Industry?
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Okay so, if a 10m less fee for Lisandro was not accepted, are you saying if we bought Antony earlier, it would have been £50m? Because I dont see other players we over paid for? Malacia? was that over pay?

Murtough and Arnold actually did strike a deal with Barcelona, our offer was accepted for 75m actually. A pipe dream you call it but I see it as trying your best to back the manager. Clearly FdJ was Ten Hag's priority signing, his main man and they tried to deliver that for him, unfortunately, he did not want to come. Like in the past.... you have mentioned the names we would have offered record breaking figures to get him in, this time we didn't.

Clearly, if you think the Casemiro deal was lucky, you aint a clue. The deal had been worked for months, its been well reported, Fred has come out saying him and Casemiro discussed it well in advance. You dont go get a WC DM by luck. But anyway, its fine you dont want to credit the board as it doesnt help your narrative.

We dont know if he is best in class, time will tell.
 
roseguy64 said:
I get what you mean about Antony but the Martinez/Timber stuff doesn't track with the other info we have on the matter.

Arnold and Murtough haven't been involved in the recruitment stuff until recently. Unfair to them to roll them up with Woodward. One was involved in the commercial side only and the other was dealing with youth and women's team.
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They where involved in wasting 50m last summer though, not a great start
 
Steve Bruce said:
But if you look at the summer beyond 'We did spend over 200m' headline and analyse what happened then the defence of the Glazers gets kind of weak.

For a start, Anthony, we could have got him for £25-30m cheaper if we went in for him at the start of July. Martinez instead of paying £49m we could have got him for £30-35m again, we waited to long on Timber and Ajax where selling other players so we had to pay an extra £15m plus to get him.

Straight away theirs £40-45m wasted money, just wasted and it's all down to the clowns that the Glazers have put in place to run the club.

So yes your right we're not a bottomless pit of money, but the Glazers persisted with Woodward, Arnold, Murtough etc etc over all these years and they have wasted so much money, so for us to have absolutely no money for a transfer fee is the Glazers fault.
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We didn't go for Antony earlier because ETH was still convinced he couldget de Jong.

How would we get Martinez for £30-£35m when Ajax turned down a bid of £42m from Arsenal?

You're talking out your arse, mate.
 
These people don't play literally millions in advice and consultancy fees to look into the things for them just to times EBITA by 3.5.
 
All posturing. I welcome the talks about not overspending and Qatar walking away. It will serve as a reference once we're bought by them, amd are negotiating for players, etc.
 


The part about the dad is key. I’ve been going on quite a bit about the dad since watching the Bloomberg interview.
 
Brownie85 said:
I'm pretty sure the likes of Sky Sports and the sorts just put out tweets saying whatever they feel like to keep the interest up. If Qatar wants United, I'm pretty sure they'll make an offer that the Glazers won't refuse.

Glazers are quite literally, as people are saying on here, trying to get as much as they can. INEOS won't outbid Qatar, and the first sign of Qatar starting to walk away, I'd imagine the Glazers will crumble
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Simple answer is these are football people who pretend they have links to major billions pound deals just because it’s a football club.
Unless it’s a Mike Keegan or someone who tells you what’s about to happen or what has happened we then it’s really all hot air.
It’s why Sky news broke the selling story and not SSN
 
romufc said:
Okay so, if a 10m less fee for Lisandro was not accepted, are you saying if we bought Antony earlier, it would have been £50m? Because I dont see other players we over paid for? Malacia? was that over pay?

Murtough and Arnold actually did strike a deal with Barcelona, our offer was accepted for 75m actually. A pipe dream you call it but I see it as trying your best to back the manager. Clearly FdJ was Ten Hag's priority signing, his main man and they tried to deliver that for him, unfortunately, he did not want to come. Like in the past.... you have mentioned the names we would have offered record breaking figures to get him in, this time we didn't.

Clearly, if you think the Casemiro deal was lucky, you aint a clue. The deal had been worked for months, its been well reported, Fred has come out saying him and Casemiro discussed it well in advance. You dont go get a WC DM by luck. But anyway, its fine you dont want to credit the board as it doesnt help your narrative.

We dont know if he is best in class, time will tell.
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Agreed.

The biggest issue among a lot of fans is that they equate being a DoF with just the transfer window and those same fans are completely oblivious to the support structure that is also required for a DoF, hence we hear things like how a DoF just runs around scouting and signing players on his own whim. That couldn't be further from the truth and it's absolutely pivotal for a DoF to have capable recruiters that lead the recruitment team or he'll be in trouble. What we do know is that Murtough has those people in place now and the like of Michael Edwards at Liverpool had the likes of Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows identifying talent for him to then sign and be given all the credit because the media and fans couldn't look past that one man at the top of the football pyramid.

It's also funny to read when fans talk about getting the best in class DoF, when in reality the biggest clubs in the world hire from within the club to lead a football structure that does a lot of the work for you. More focus needs to be placed on who the recruiters, data scientists and video analysts etc are imo. Because if a DoF has a capable support structure, they will identify the best players to sign for the current blueprint in question. And the current heads of scouting and data science are new and we'll be better able to judge their work at the end of the summer transfer window.

But always remember that a DoF is someone who sets a directive on the football side of the club and hires the head coach, the scouts, data science team etc, to then support the head coach in creating a team with a football blueprint in mind. And this is a concept that a lot of fans are oblivious to and can't see past how quick or slow a transfer deal can be done.

Paratici who many on here lauded as a experienced DoF has right royally fecked Conte when it came to recruitment.
 
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Bosws87 said:
Just basic negotiating, no substance to any of that tweet.
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Exactly the Glaziers air that they might stay if they don’t get £6bn and the Qataris call their bluff, more and more this looks being done for £5bn plus the debt of £620m astronomical value and Ed Woodward will get £25m for his voting shares too!
 
roseguy64 said:
I get what you mean about Antony but the Martinez/Timber stuff doesn't track with the other info we have on the matter.

Arnold and Murtough haven't been involved in the recruitment stuff until recently. Unfair to them to roll them up with Woodward. One was involved in the commercial side only and the other was dealing with youth and women's team.
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The club has regressed off the pitch so even by that metric Arnold will be lucky to remain. His biggest selling point seems to be nothing is his fault, if we’d been successful on and off the pitch in his 9 years as MD I doubt he be absolving himself of any credit.

Murtough’s biggest selling point seems to be it’s not his fault and he did well setting up women’s team, how much that impresses any new owners I’m not sure.

They are essentially being reassessed for their jobs and possibility their futures have already been decided anyway. Murtough might be doing a good job making appointments and building the structure, he might be doing a shit one.

But you’re not going to know definitively either way for few years really, same could probably be said for Arnold. So you either have to give them significant time or bite the bullet and when the club is know for being in a mess there’s quite a big incentive to look to bring in new people.
 
AlPistacho said:


The part about the dad is key. I’ve been going on quite a bit about the dad since watching the Bloomberg interview.
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Who is Sheikh Jassim described as "smart, savvy and cautious" by and how come those describing him this way don't know what age he is or whether he's married? It's a state bid, I get that the gulf states want to change their image as spending with no care for the cost because that reputation is probably costing them dearly when they look to make property acquisitions or do other larger deals. That part makes sense but the personal views of the Sheikh and his father aren't that relevant.
 
Qatar/ineos want to buy but only at the right price. The Glazers might stay or they might go. A minority bid might be accepted, alternatively they might go for a full sale. It's evident that sky are covering all possibilities and have no clue what is going on
 
AlPistacho said:


The part about the dad is key. I’ve been going on quite a bit about the dad since watching the Bloomberg interview.
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I'm sure he did a tweet a while back saying that Sheikh Jassim is desperate to buy the club and has the money to do it
 
Adnan said:
Agreed.

The biggest issue among a lot of fans is that they equate being a DoF with just the transfer window and those same fans are completely oblivious to the support structure that is also required for a DoF, hence we hear things like how a DoF just runs around scouting and signing players on his own whim. That couldn't be further from the truth and it's absolutely pivotal for a DoF to have capable recruiters that lead the recruitment team or he'll be in trouble. What we do know is that Murtough has those people in place now and the like of Michael Edwards at Liverpool had the likes of Barry Hunter and Dave Fallows identifying talent for him to then sign and be given all the credit because the media and fans couldn't look past that one man at the top of the football pyramid.

It's also funny to read when fans talk about getting the best in class DoF, when in reality the biggest clubs in the world hire from within the club to lead a football structure that does a lot of the work for you. More focus needs to be placed on who the recruiters, data scientists and video analysts etc are imo. Because if a DoF has a capable support structure, they will identify the best players to sign for the current blueprint in question. And the current heads of scouting and data science are new and we'll be better able to judge their work at the end of the summer transfer window.

But always remember that a DoF is someone who sets a directive on the football side of the club and hires the head coach, the scouts, data science team etc, to then support the head coach in creating a team with a football blueprint in mind. And this is a concept that a lot of fans are oblivious to and can't see past how quick or slow a transfer deal can be done.

Paratici who many on here lauded as a experienced DoF has right royally fecked Conte when it came to recruitment.
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Brilliant explanation. Unfortunately, alot of fans dont know this and think DoF is the only one at the club that deals with transfers. Its far from the truth, like you have listed, DoF will work on targets in terms of what kind of player we need, they will sit down with the manager and decide, what players suit best. Hence the long pursuit of Frenkie.

I cant name many clubs that go hire the best DoF around, most of them are from the club as they understand this.

The funny one is if the transfer takes long = we messed up could have got cheaper when there was evidence with Licha that a 8m less fee was rejected but fans have this idea that we could have got players cheaper, then when we sign Casemiro, its luck. :lol: :lol:
 
The media really are just treating this like a transfer, as if it's the only way they know how to report. :lol:
 
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ExecutionerWasp001 said:
Glazers are ruled by greed. The best offer for us is Quatar. They will take us back to former glories.

Glazers could sell us to Quatar for £4 Bill tomorrow & it's all profit. The fans win, they win & the nightmare for us is over. Instead they are trying to play two parties against each other to maximise their profit. The end result could be that both parties feel disrespected & walk away leaving us in limbo.
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Yeah I am terrified they walk away due to the utter greed of these yankee leeches
 
croadyman said:
Yeah I am terrified they walk away due to the utter greed of these yankee leeches
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Are you ever not terrified? Jesus man, they’re negotiating over a 5-6 billion quid deal. If you consider how long it can take for two clubs to come to an agreement over a big player transfer? This is someone buying one of the biggest football clubs in the world.
 
They're clearly haggling. Sheikh Jassim saying he's not going to overpay and Glazers claiming they're emotionally attached to the club. Who's going to blink first?
 
Looking forward to tomorrow's breaking news that some of the Galzers are reportedly reluctant to sell.

The media have been reporting the same 3 of 4 lines over and over again for weeks
 
Roboc7 said:
The club has regressed off the pitch so even by that metric Arnold will be lucky to remain. His biggest selling point seems to be nothing is his fault, if we’d been successful on and off the pitch in his 9 years as MD I doubt he be absolving himself of any credit.

Murtough’s biggest selling point seems to be it’s not his fault and he did well setting up women’s team, how much that impresses any new owners I’m not sure.

They are essentially being reassessed for their jobs and possibility their futures have already been decided anyway. Murtough might be doing a good job making appointments and building the structure, he might be doing a shit one.

But you’re not going to know definitively either way for few years really, same could probably be said for Arnold. So you either have to give them significant time or bite the bullet and when the club is know for being in a mess there’s quite a big incentive to look to bring in new people.
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Yeah agreed with that essentially. Would just be weird to rip things up again immediately when we've just changed things up massively within the last year. Would feel unnecessary.
 
Roboc7 said:
The club has regressed off the pitch so even by that metric Arnold will be lucky to remain. His biggest selling point seems to be nothing is his fault, if we’d been successful on and off the pitch in his 9 years as MD I doubt he be absolving himself of any credit.
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I'm pretty sure Arnold will get replaced by another CEO. Maybe they'll give him a VP / Director title to have his expertise around but the new guys will always need a top man that they appoint.

I really hope they have this mapped out in their heads atleast and not get yet another random banker fraud who knows nothing about football like Woody in. They run PSG, Nice etc. so they should know.
 
Spoony said:
They're clearly haggling. Sheikh Jassim saying he's not going to overpay and Glazers claiming they're emotionally attached to the club. Who's going to blink first?
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The concern for some will of course be that neither blinks and no sale ever gets over the line. It is almost certainly true that Qatar do not want to be seen to be getting ripped off. It is also a fact that Avram and Joel attempted to buy their four siblings out just last summer, which would certainly indicate that they are (or at least very recently were) keener on remaining at the club than the others.

We're not going to hear anything of any real significance for at least a couple of weeks, though, and it is probably best to ignore much or what is printed in the interim.
 
Teja said:
I'm pretty sure Arnold will get replaced by another CEO. Maybe they'll give him a VP / Director title to have his expertise around but the new guys will always need a top man that they appoint.

I really hope they have this mapped out in their heads atleast and not get yet another random banker fraud who knows nothing about football like Woody in. They run PSG, Nice etc. so they should know.
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Everyone above EtH should be sacked, no exceptions, no new roles, just gone.
 
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