Club Sale | It’s done!

[Nou_Camp99]

It’s Qatar all day long for me but that said even Jim Ratcliffe now looks like an attractive proposition in comparison those US vultures Elliot group.

Jim is an attractive proposition. He's 5 times richer than the Glazers and we wouldn't be selling our soul to be sports washers either. This is what people have been telling you all. That would be a huge huge improvement for us.

That Qatari money has sportswashed you all something mad though. Hahaha

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Indeed, though to be fair the 80 million metric tonnes of Liquified Natural Gas Qatar export per annum isn't exactly environmentally friendly either.

Bravo sir!

 

[Water Melon]

Qataris will win, and we are going to be in a very strong position financially. The club will spend according to its earnings, we will not breach FFP and we will be super competitive both in the Prem as well as Europe. Having a nice stadium that meets the requirements and expectations of the 21st century will be a pleasure.

 

[Pintu]

1. It's very much state ownership in all but name. The man in question's personal wealth is said to be a mere 2bn or so. However he's the brother of the Emit of Qatar and that family have access to hundreds of billions.

2. Ineos and Qatar are not in same league as morals mate. Sure they manufacture and sell chemicals which aren't exactly environmentally friendly but they aren't responsible for thousands of migrant deaths and homophobia. People really need to learn this point.

No he is not the Emir’s brother. The Emir is the son of this Hamad (former Emir/absolute ruler) :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Khalifa_Al_Thani

The man bidding for United is the son of this Hamad (former Prime minister of Qatar and a cousin of the first Hamad, the ex-monarch)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Jassim_bin_Jaber_Al_Thani

 

[Kinsella]

It`s a tough one isn`t it. I`m not an expert but from what I have read about INEOS they are contributing (quite significantly) to global warming and the destruction of our planet. In terms of morals everyone is different but I can`t think of much worse than that.
It will inadvertently affect many more people than the Qatari`s?

How did Qatar get its wealth again?

 

[Nori-]

Getting nerves about this Qatari deal now, so many people/group trying to wreck it.

Also worried the American finance groups backing some of the other bids, might quietly tell the glazers, "you take our slightly lower offer and we'll give you preferential interest rates/loans in future"

Hope we don't have many more months of this

 

[RORY65]

The Athletic have had a clear agenda against the Qatari’s from the get go, it’s clear as day. It will make it even sweeter if the Sheikh does indeed win the race to takeover.

Yep, their agenda against a state (where being gay is a criminal offence and migrant workers are treated deplorably) bidding, in which that state is pretending they're not the ones bidding to circumvent the rules, is really unfair. Should be more supportive of them.

 

[TsuWave]

Qataris will win, and we are going to be in a very strong position financially. The club will spend according to its earnings, we will not breach FFP and we will be super competitive both in the Prem as well as Europe. Having a nice stadium that meets the requirements and expectations of the 21st century will be a pleasure.

a non doom-&-gloom post? tears running down my face

 

[stevoc]

The Athletic have had a clear agenda against the Qatari’s from the get go, it’s clear as day. It will make it even sweeter if the Sheikh does indeed win the race to takeover.

Yeah given Qatar's atrocious human rights record a lot of people understandably would have an agenda against them.

 

[saivet]

Sportswashing works so so quickly. Our fans have been washed by that prospect of cash quicker than The Flash can complete the 100 meters.

If we're honest, I think a lot of fans either don't know, don't understand or don't care about what's going on in Qatar to begin with. I think it's been evidenced by the World Cup where it felt like more people had an issue with its timing rather than the Qatar's issues.

 

[AltiUn]

Finally playing some great football and still in four competitions. Scary thought but the Glazers would be crazy to sell now. I’m certain they think in another 5/10 years the club will be worth over 10b

You literally just saw that in an article and passed it off as your own thoughts.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I mean to me, anything with "billion" on the end of it can't adequately be described as peanuts. If they're near the limit of the bid to which anything higher becomes unmanageable, then it suggests it's still a load for them to take on. Ineos wouldn't just exist to keep us going, and I'm not sure how much they actually put aside for their greenwashing activities.

Put it this way, INEOS could currently service a debt of 80 million /year (4.5 times our current annual debt payments), and it’d barely be noticeable on their bottom line. That’d be reduced from 2.1 billion this year to 2.02 billion

It’s nothing like a leveraged debt, which has skewed everyone’s views as that scumfeckery should never have been allowed, it’d be a standard example/practice with an enormous company taking over a much smaller one.

 

[red thru&thru]

yep that’s the reason

Indeed!

 

[Nou_Camp99]

No he is not the Emir’s brother. The Emir is the son of this Hamad (former Emir/absolute ruler) :
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Khalifa_Al_Thani

The man bidding for United is the son of this Hamad (former Prime minister of Qatar and a cousin of the first Hamad, the ex-monarch)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamad_bin_Jassim_bin_Jaber_Al_Thani

It's all coming from the state regardless. Same as Newcastle. These people simply don't have 6bn to throw away on vanity projects.

 

[Tiber]

Jim O'Neill said that when they tried to takeover united 15 years ago, the Red Knights were talking to Qatar about investing in United but they decided it was better to buy PSG and get France to support the world cup

Wonder where we would be today if the Red Knights were actually successful

 

[clarkydaz]

If we're honest, I think a lot of fans either don't know, don't understand or don't care about what's going on in Qatar to begin with. I think it's been evidenced by the World Cup where it felt like more people had an issue with its timing rather than the Qatar's issues.

Did you watch the corrupt world cup?

 

[sullydnl]

The Athletic are just a small part of the problem. Personally, I'm sick of these human rights organisations and persecuted minorities pursuing their biased campaign against Qatar. When will someone stand up for the little guy, the autocratic nation state?

 

[stevoc]

How did Qatar get its wealth again?

It's nuts isn't it?

INEOS's poor environmental record is being held up as comparable to Qatar's deplorable human rights record while ignoring that Qatar as the world's largest exporter of LNG are almost certainly doing infinitely more damage to the environment.

 

[stw2022]

If we're honest, I think a lot of fans either don't know, don't understand or don't care about what's going on in Qatar to begin with. I think it's been evidenced by the World Cup where it felt like more people had an issue with its timing rather than the Qatar's issues.

It's also relevant to consider the groups affected.

When we're talking about oppression of gays, women and migrant workers you only have to read the two best selling newspapers in THIS country to see how gays, women and migrant workers and their issues are covered.

Without meaning to stereotype your average punter on the terraces is much more likely to pick up a copy of the Sun than the Guardian. I'm not homophobic but..."we should respect their culture "

I'm not racist but...."I secretly think these bloody migrants should stay in their own county"

And so on. There's a reason sportswashing works

 

[Compton22]

You know, because going off media speculation as opposed to being told exactly what's happening is better for keeping focused

 

[Member 125398]

It's also relevant to consider the groups affected.

When we're talking about oppression of gays, women and migrant workers you only have to read the two best selling newspapers in THIS country to see how gays, women and migrant workers and their issues are covered.

Fair point.

 

[Mockney]

Anyone else read the Athletic Piece this morning?



It reads as one giant oxymoron.

• Poll created in premium, paid for sub service = views of local fan, how many actually subscribe and pay for the Athletic? Also proven many times with much bigger pools including Mitten to be wrong and Qatar ownership by far the most popular choice.
• Questions the validity of online fan opinion whilst defending the results of their own online poll...
• Continues to merit the commercial power of the club outside of state investment and the club can stand on its own two feet, whilst ignoring FFP issues and whats worse the fact that the online/worldwide fans are exactly why we are a commercial juggernaut in the first place.

Some people including the media are having a really hard time accepting that the Qatar takeover is winning the hearts and minds of most fans, YES we should scrutinise it, YES we should ask questions BUT it is by far the best option for the CLUB and future of the success of the team and club in the modern football landscape.

It’s very obvious there is a massive fan divide by this very forum, even on this very page!…. Not helped by shit like “Qatar is winning the hearts and minds of most fans” which sounds like when twats make controversial declarative statements just so they can justify their opinion when nobody challenges it. A lot of fans are just resigned to it, as much as anything else.

Any fan that doesn’t remotely care that this will be a really difficult issue for a lot of their fellow fans, and is even gleeful about that because they get to crow, can seriously get to feck

 

[Nou_Camp99]

If we're honest, I think a lot of fans either don't know, don't understand or don't care about what's going on in Qatar to begin with. I think it's been evidenced by the World Cup where it felt like more people had an issue with its timing rather than the Qatar's issues.

I think that's certainly true for large aspects of our younger fanbase. Most don't understand the situation nor really care.

I think a lot of people over the age of say 30 aren't quite as positive and understand that the integrity of this great club is in danger of being placed in their hands.

Not that we can do much about it though of course. The Glazers will ultimately take the best offer for them. They don't give two rats about us.

 

[Mickeza]

When you think about it it’s a pretty sad state of affairs showing exactly where football has gone when the two options for buying Manchester United are a state or a petrochemical company.

 

[red thru&thru]

It’s very obvious there is a massive fan divide by this very forum, even on this very page!…. Not helped by shit like “Qatar is winning the hearts and minds of most fans” which sounds like when twats make controversial declarative statements just so they can justify their opinion when nobody challenges it.

Any fan that doesn’t remotely care that this will be a really difficult issue for a lot of their fellow fans, and is even gleeful about that because they get to crow, can seriously get to feck

I just don't think there is such a big divide. From every fan driven poll I've see, Qatar beats SJR.

 

[Telsim]

You know, because going off media speculation as opposed to being told exactly what's happening is better for keeping focused

How generous of them to care about on-pitch performance. Why, maybe we should even keep them? Such caring owners...

 

[stw2022]

Being bought by asset stripping hedgefunds was always a risk. Has been since day one. Why I always found the 'anyone is better than a Glazer' argument bizarre.

They're not very good, but it isn't hard to imagine a worse plausible scenario.

 

[Tiber]

Jim O'Neill said that when they tried to takeover united 15 years ago, the Red Knights were talking to Qatar about investing in United but they decided it was better to buy PSG and get France to support the world cup

Wonder where we would be today if the Red Knights were actually successful

Interesting suggestion from O'Neil was that to clear the debt very quickly Ratcliffe could make clear there would be a sale of equity to fans. Would provide power to fans and wipe the debt.

Though absolutely no suggestion that Ratcliffe is remotely interested in the idea. Would make the ineos approach a lot more appealing though

 

[Tarrou]

Being bought by asset stripping hedgefunds was always a risk. Has been since day one. Why I always found the 'anyone is better than a Glazer' argument bizarre.

They're not very good, but it isn't hard to imagine a worse plausible scenario.

what assets they can strip without doing more more financial damage than its worth?

 

[laughtersassassin]

Jim O'Neill said that when they tried to takeover united 15 years ago, the Red Knights were talking to Qatar about investing in United but they decided it was better to buy PSG and get France to support the world cup

Wonder where we would be today if the Red Knights were actually successful

A key point here is the Glazers where never going to sell so it made sense the Qataris weren't interested in a wild goose chase

 

[Prodigal7]

what assets they can strip without doing more more financial damage than its worth?

They could sell off old trafford and the training ground and lease them back, make a quick buck there and then sell shortly after for a profit. It's the kind of thing these cretins do.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

That’s probably because they’ve heard the majority of fans slag off state and especially ME state ownership for 15 years, and probably because they saw how we all reacted and ridiculed Newcastle celebrating being taken over by the Saudis.
Those same fans now have the hearts & minds won by state ownership, so yeah, not hard to understand the “hard time”, think they fully expected United, after all that and the Murdoch protests to be the one club to say “feck off” to that model.

It’s very obvious there is a massive fan divide by this very forum, even on this very page!…. Not helped by shit like “Qatar is winning the hearts and minds of most fans” which sounds like when twats make controversial declarative statements just so they can justify their opinion when nobody challenges it. A lot of fans are just resigned to it, as much as anything else.

Any fan that doesn’t remotely care that this will be a really difficult issue for a lot of their fellow fans, and is even gleeful about that because they get to crow, can seriously get to feck

I think almost every fan is aware of the issues over Qatar ownership.
Perhaps its better those issues are under the microscope and in the media light if they own United so that the continued scrutiny from the WC extends beyond those few months and regresses into "out of sight, out of mind" what if the Qataris for instance love the attention of the womens team becoming successful and dominant and therefore decide to invest locally.

We have seen that be the case in the mens game , with CR7 going to Saudi and exploding the attention on their league.

Lets not discount the opportunity that Qatar owning United has for opening the minds of the leadership in that country to addressing their human rights and other policies as they will have prolonged exposure to the culture and mindset of the united fans.

It goes both ways.

The ability to analyse a situation and form an opinion based on all facts is not a negative trait, sometimes it leads to fans changing their minds on their thoughts on the leadership. I don't hold my opinions just because I thought something different at one point in time, like most intelligent people, you take in the facts and actions, do some research and think differently or the same based on what is important to you.

 

[Tarrou]

They could sell off old trafford and the training ground and lease them back, make a quick buck there and then sell shortly after for a profit. It's the kind of thing these cretins do.

yeah that definitely devalues the club more than they’d make doing it

 

[cyberman]

Then even INEOS would loan through INEOS with it.

Although I’m struggling with that interpretation, I know there was a big discussion yesterday about it. It can’t simply be that no club can renovate or build a new stadium any longer, makes zero sense.

It kind of makes sense. Spending big on a stadium would cost a club a lot more than overspending on players.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

When you think about it it’s a pretty sad state of affairs showing exactly where football has gone when the two options for buying Manchester United are a state or a petrochemical company.

Indeed it is. The PL have a lot to answer for. The fit and proper owners test was a sham from the start. They just wanted the money.

I said at the time of the City n PSG takeovers that this was the same as opening Pandora's box. State owned clubs should have never been allowed. It's far too political for it to be allowed in my eyes. These states don't care about profits. That's evident. They care about the exposure they get to enhance their image.

Football has truly lost itself up its own backside really.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The Athletic have had a clear agenda against the Qatari’s from the get go, it’s clear as day. It will make it even sweeter if the Sheikh does indeed win the race to takeover.

Would yeh feck off.

 

[cyberman]

Massively clutching at straws there mate to fit your agenda. We use chemicals for all different products in the world. They are essential.

To compare that with the needles deaths of thousands of migrant workers and all the other stuff is massively reaching.

Sportswashing works so so quickly. Our fans have been washed by that prospect of cash quicker than The Flash can complete the 100 meters.

I’m not. Sport washing obviously works with your post dismissing Jim as being not exactly environmentally friendly. That’s a horrendous statement quite frankly
Can you explain the difference?

 

[redshaw]

One aspect about Qatar owning both clubs is exchange of players that could happen and anger either set of fans.

They could try to get the best of both worlds, instead of a top player spending a long period at the club winning, he gets convinced to play for PSG. A players time gets cut short that probably wouldn't happen being solely independent and fighting for players to stay.

What happens in a super league, whether run by Uefa or not? You may think United would have the upper hand today over PSG due to the Premier League but if a super league takes place, suddenly United are in league with all the top European destinations and PSG become priority or joint priority.

You could get benefits of players coming our way but if a fan favourite ends up at PSG part way through his career it wouldn't sit well. I'd rather be solely independent and if we can't hold onto a player then so be it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The ability to analyse a situation and form an opinion based on all facts is not a negative trait, sometimes it leads to fans changing their minds on their thoughts on the leadership. I don't hold my opinions just because I thought something different at one point in time, like most intelligent people, you take in the facts and actions, do some research and think differently or the same based on what is important to you.

But you questioned why some media are having a “hard time” understanding why United fans have suddenly gone from the Anti-Murdoch, Anti-state ownership, piss taking out of Newcastle, to overnight overwhelming backers of state ownership.
I’m personally having a hard time with it, I thought United fans took the piss out of City & Newcastle because we held our club to a higher standard, when in fact, it seems for many, it was simple jealousy after all.
The fanbase that rallied against Murdoch, was clearly very different to the one we see today, and that makes me sad to know we’re no better than City nor the geordies, we’re just another football club, with the majority of fans desperate for success at any cost.

 

[Ubik]

Put it this way, INEOS could currently service a debt of 80 million /year (4.5 times our current annual debt payments), and it’d barely be noticeable on their bottom line. That’d be reduced from 2.1 billion this year to 2.02 billion

It’s nothing like a leveraged debt, which has skewed everyone’s views as that scumfeckery should never have been allowed, it’d be a standard example/practice with an enormous company taking over a much smaller one.

That goes back again to my earlier point though - you can double that figure again and it still doesn't make a big impact on that line, which makes me think it's not as simple as deducting one off the other and thinking everything's fine. We don't even have confirmation they'll wipe the Glazer debt yet - I think it's likelier than not that they would but it again goes back to how their messaging so far has been pretty poor in all honesty. Given how opaque the Glazers/Raine have made the entire process as well, it feels like we might always be left in the dark on this stuff which is frustrating as a fan over something so important.