Club Sale | It’s done!

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bosnian_red said:
Sure, and their profit would come in the form of asset growth over time whenever they choose to sell it. Draining an investment for literal pennies compared to their revenue just isn't worth it for them. They would set us up to be in a good spot initially and then they would likely just leave us be as an asset. Yes they wouldn't pump money in either, but that's not needed IMO.
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That's a sensible point which I alluded to, also saying they would drop out when the bidding passed the point they thought it would not work.

So we're left with 'they wouldn't pump money in either, but that's not needed IMO'. I agree with the 'wouldn't pump money in' bit, it's just that I think in order to compete with oil money we need oil money. United's revenues are not a quantum step above other clubs as they used to be, and depend on success, times have changed. If ME people don't buy us they will probably buy Liverpool instead, leaving us to compete with three oil clubs and the others too. I'll take the cash thanks, not that I don't still respect people that wouldn't, just so long as they don't make up a load of bollocks about 'the debt isn't ours' or 'Sir Jim is a nice man, he just wants to help'.
 
Infra-red said:
No. Anyone who purchases United will borrow the money to do it. Ineos, US Consortia, Qataris, anyone. The question is, where does the debt end up - if it is on United's balance sheet, then the club are responsible for it (eg the Glazer's LBO in 2005), if it is not, then it has no impact on the club.
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Ok fair do’s. Ta
 
Woziak said:
And Spanish football coaches are based on Cruyff Barcelona total football system which is why ETH was Peps assistant at Bayern and is already an exponent of that type of football,
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Do we look like Barça? Open your eyes man, we are more like Real Madrid.

First they get rid of Ten Hag, next Casemiro.
 
Tarrou said:
not rich enough to spend 6 billion on a sports team no

this is fairly common knowledge about Qatar as a nation, the regime is controlling everyone who has that kind of wealth
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Where is this coming from is what I am trying to understand? Are there undeniable articles/journalistic pieces around it or just some assumption everyone wants to make, because it's a ME state? Because at this point you are saying something completely contradictory to what a poster from that region is saying.
 
NK86 said:
Where is this coming from is what I am trying to understand? Are there undeniable articles/journalistic pieces around it or just some assumption everyone wants to make, because it's a ME state? Because at this point you are saying something completely contradictory to what a poster from that region is saying.
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well, like I said, it's common knowledge

why don't you try googling Qatar billionnaires or how many billionnaires has Qatar got and see what you come up with.. if you find a private Qatar citizen worth enough to buy United I'll give you a tenner
 
NK86 said:
You got to know it just now? His first post clearly showed that up clearly.
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I don't know, sometimes it's hard to tell. We have all kind of interesting opinions here to say the least.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
That's actually still under immense scrutiny though. A bit like when City say their finances are legit. I want to see undisputed proof there is no link between them.

Can you imagine if this went through and it turned out the money was from the same place. They'd throw the book at us.
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Why? Whether the money is from the same place isn't really the issue, its whether there's a conflict of interest between two clubs competing in the same competition, if there are two state backed wealth funds independent from one another, and the club is run with minimal interference it won't really matter if the source of wealth is the same, its just proving they'll be run independently from each other
 
Tarrou said:
I would love to be in the board meeting where Sir Jim sold this to the Ineos directors

alright lads I know the practise runs with Nice and Lausanne didn't exactly go according to plan, but hear my out...
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Chairman of the board and still owns 2/3 of the company. Which basically means that his word is law. Also, he probably wouldn't have entered the process before clearing with his leadership group.
 
jm99 said:
Why? Whether the money is from the same place isn't really the issue, its whether there's a conflict of interest between two clubs competing in the same competition, if there are two state backed wealth funds independent from one another, and the club is run with minimal interference it won't really matter if the source of wealth is the same, its just proving they'll be run independently from each other
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Given PSG are basically guaranteed CL football these days and we want to be in it all the time.....there is clearly an issue. It opens up a mine field.

You can't own two clubs in the same competition. That's why City have bought clubs that will never get in the CL. They don't want them to either.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Given PSG are basically guaranteed CL football these days and we want to be in it all the time.....there is clearly an issue. It opens up a mine field.

You can't own two clubs in the same competition. That's why City have bought clubs that will never get in the CL. They don't want them to either.
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this is already happening with the Red Bull clubs
 
Tarrou said:
well, like I said, it's common knowledge

why don't you try googling Qatar billionnaires or how many billionnaires has Qatar got and see what you come up with.. if you find a private Qatar citizen worth enough to buy United I'll give you a tenner
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Qatar has only one billionaire - the Emir. The ten wealthiest people in Qatar are all connected to the state or are otherwise part of the royal family. There are plenty of wealthy Qataris and they have among the highest GDP per capita of any country on earth, but aside from the royals, none of them have anywhere near the wealth required for purchasing United. Ratcliffe's personal net worth is more than 20 times larger than any Qatari citizen outside the royal family. The bulk of their wealth is retained by QIA and the Al-Thani family.

It is worth noting that this is a tiny, autocratic country - there are only 300k Qatari citizens (about the same as the population of Coventry or Leicester and about half that of Glasgow or Leeds, for example). It is very difficult to imagine that any Qatari bid for United would not be funded at least indirectly by the state (QIA or one of their other investment vehicles).
 
So it's basically which brand of Sportswashing do you want?

I suppose it comes down to what you care about more:

Human Rights or Climate Change?
 
Infra-red said:
Qatar has only one billionaire - the Emir. The ten wealthiest people in Qatar are all connected to the state or are otherwise part of the royal family. There are plenty of wealthy Qataris and they have among the highest GDP per capita of any country on earth, but aside from the royals, none of them have anywhere near the wealth required for purchasing United. Ratcliffe's personal net worth is more than 20 times larger than any Qatari citizen outside the royal family. The bulk of their wealth is retained by QIA and the Al-Thani family.

It is worth noting that this is a tiny, autocratic country - there are only 300k Qatari citizens (about the same as the population of Coventry or Leicester and about half that of Glasgow or Leeds, for example). It is very difficult to imagine that any Qatari bid for United would not be funded at least indirectly by the state (QIA or one of their other investment vehicles).
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Plenty of people will happily live in denial about this
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
Given PSG are basically guaranteed CL football these days and we want to be in it all the time.....there is clearly an issue. It opens up a mine field.

You can't own two clubs in the same competition. That's why City have bought clubs that will never get in the CL. They don't want them to either.
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I get that, my point is more that if Qatar have two separate independently run investment funds, each with their own personnel etc, then just because the source of the wealth is the same doesn't mean it's the same people owning the club. An example I used earlier is Walmart in America, each part of it is owned by different siblings. Now if these siblings separately wanted to buy a club, the source of the wealth is the same, it comes from Walmart, but the people running it are independent. If Qatar can prove that qsi and qia are separate organisations that run independently from one another, then it won't be an issue, proving that might be tricky but I don't think impossible
 
NK86 said:
It's not a single investor, it's a consortium. Since it's not a western consortium, it automatically means they are all belonging to the same category of evil rich people?
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It's the Qatari royal family and some intermediaries.
 
dove said:
I don't know, sometimes it's hard to tell. We have all kind of interesting opinions here to say the least.
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Yeah man. Just because it sounds crazy doesn‘t mean it isn‘t true.

Ten Hag has already laid the groundwork at Bayern to go there, he will be fine. He even parked Daley Blind there.
 
WalkerTheRed said:
Plenty of people will happily live in denial about this
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Indeed. Ultimately, if a bid emerges and progresses to the point where transaction might actually take place, I am sure that the Qataris and United will find a way to convince the relevant authorities at the Premier League and UEFA that the "Private Investment Corporation of Qatar" (or whatever other acronym they choose) is entirely separate to the state or QIA, but let's not pretend that this is anything other than a takeover by a country.
 
Infra-red said:
Indeed. Ultimately, if a bid emerges and progresses to the point where transaction might actually take place, I am sure that the Qataris and United will find a way to convince the relevant authorities at the Premier League and UEFA that the "Private Investment Corporation of Qatar" (or whatever other acronym they choose) is entirely separate to the state or QIA, but let's not pretend that this is anything other than a takeover by a country.
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The same people also believe, that "Debt is debt" as Howson (fecking clown) so elegantly put it. I'm slowly losing my patience trying to tell people, that for coperations like INEOS, debt is just a financial instrument.
 
Have Ratcliffe mentioned any commitment to building a new stadium and redeveloping the area. I'm not too keen on his Ineos/GS/JPM ticket, but I MAY come round if there's some form of verbal assurance he would look to invest in the infrastructure. I don't want Nice 2.0.

Right now I'm still reluctantly favouring the Qatar option (as unfortunate as the connotations are), but only because they're the only option I'm assuming would be happy to immediately invest in the areas we're severely falling behind in.
 
Kaos said:
Have Ratcliffe mentioned any commitment to building a new stadium and redeveloping the area. I'm not too keen on his Ineos/GS/JPM ticket, but I MAY come round if there's some form of verbal assurance he would look to invest in the infrastructure. I don't want Nice 2.0.

Right now I'm still reluctantly favouring the Qatar option (as unfortunate as the connotations are), but only because they're the only option I'm assuming would be happy to immediately invest in the areas we're severely falling behind in.
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So you would take the blood money but be unhappy about it? What a stand-up citizen you are.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
If people weren't getting swept up by the idea of some Arabian Prince coming to Old Trafford, farting out billions of pounds and smiling then I think the Ratcliffe/INEOS interest would be viewed very differently.

If that had all come out a year ago when we saw no end to the Glazers, I think people would be willing them to buy the club.

A lot of what I've heard sounds good and people seem to be taking it all wrong because they hear of loans etc. There's good debt and bad debt. And the Nice comparison is valid but United aren't a club in need of a total overhaul to become successful.
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For me it's sort of the devil you know vs the devil you don't. We know what we have with Glazers. We know what we will get with Qatar (see PSG/ City), but it's a bit unknown with Ineos. If it's another leveraged buyout with current interest rates it could be the death of United.
 
Kuwait has a pretty large sovereign fund as well.

Don't they and Bahrain want to get into football like the rest rich Arab countries.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I would rather United never win another thing than United being owned by the Qataris.
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Would you rather United go into administration? I know it's the worst possible scenario of staying with Glazers/ getting another leveraged buyout but would you? Seems some on here would rather the death of Manchester United than get Middle Eastern money!
 
WalkerTheRed said:
The same people also believe, that "Debt is debt" as Howson (fecking clown) so elegantly put it. I'm slowly losing my patience trying to tell people, that for coperations like INEOS, debt is just a financial instrument.
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The Glazers have a done a number on United fans and the debt markets mate, hard to blame them...

I agree with you of course, but I can see why people get freaked out and jump to wrong conclusions.
 
croadyman said:
100% certain he will not be able to invest fully in the stadium and training facilities redevelopment. I don't like he has to get the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan involved (Woody's old company) either as they helped Glazers get the club in first place.

Maybe the likes of Howson need to accept that his ideal ownership will never be possible in this country so if he feels so against Qatari's then he has decision to make along with many others.
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If a business buys United, it will have to be based on loans. Other than these ME states nobody has such huge amounts to spend.
As I said it would be INEOS loan.
United would be their investment which if run properly would become a valuable asset.

In any case, we will know soon enough who owns the club.
The one thing we should all lobby for is that we bring back Manchester United Football Club.

We are not a fecking brand.
 
NLunited said:
So you would take the blood money but be unhappy about it? What a stand-up citizen you are.
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The club is getting sold regardless, and sadly there's no humanitarian/altruist bidder from what I know. So we're going to end up with a cnut one way or the other. And yes I'd throw Ratcliffe into that category too.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I would rather United never win another thing than United being owned by the Qataris.
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Well, I don't, so we're at an impasse.

I find this argument nauseating. Do you people suddenly stop eating food because of what these food companies do and how despicable some of them are? Have you ever watched what some of them do to animals? May I remind you what type of shit Nestle are up to? I still drink Nescafe. This fecking moral bullshit is exhausting. If you care so much about it, then stop watching and supporting the club. It's that simple.
 
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jm99 said:
I get that, my point is more that if Qatar have two separate independently run investment funds, each with their own personnel etc, then just because the source of the wealth is the same doesn't mean it's the same people owning the club. An example I used earlier is Walmart in America, each part of it is owned by different siblings. Now if these siblings separately wanted to buy a club, the source of the wealth is the same, it comes from Walmart, but the people running it are independent. If Qatar can prove that qsi and qia are separate organisations that run independently from one another, then it won't be an issue, proving that might be tricky but I don't think impossible
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They will find a way. Al-Khelaifi is the Chairman of QSI and on the Board of QIA, but they will find a way...
 
Sviken said:
Well, I don't, so we're at an impasse.

I find this argument nauseating. Do you people suddenly stop eating food because of what they do and how despicable some of them are? Have you ever watched what some of them do to animals? May I remind you what type of shit Nestle are up to? I still drink Nescafe. This fecking moral bullshit is exhausting. If you care so much about it, then stop watching and supporting the club. It's that simple.
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Exactly!
 
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