Club Sale | It’s done!

[Rhyme Animal]

They are far from a Unit though, it's plain as day that only 2 of them wish to remain at United whilst the other 4 couldn't give a shit - It's Joel and Avi vs Ratcliffe.

If the others wanted a full sale they would simply vote against this daft Ratcliffe deal and prevent it.

They could easily force a full sale if they want out and every other shareholder would back them.

They are very much a unit and are in it together, albeit less visibly than the aforementioned Joel and Avram.

 

[stevoc]

Would we notice?

Yeah I think we would, as bad as we've been this season we're a quarter of the way into the season and we've won 5 and lost 5. Expand that form over the season and we end up on or around 60 points which would see us finish safely in the top half between 7th-9th.

If we played a bunch of Academy kids for every match for the rest of the season I could easily see us getting relegated or at the very least being drawn into a relegation dog fight.

Would you still think it was a good idea?

 

[Rhyme Animal]

It seems to me that having 75 is a larger number than 25, whether in terms of percentages or goals scored, so I'm struggling with the idea that an individual who will have 25% ownership stake would ever have more control than an group of individuals who together will have a 75% ownership stake. True, the 75% ownership stake group could agree that the 25% stakeholder than he will have full operational control of the club, but in the real world that will never, ever happen.

Perhaps Ratcliffe doesn't need full operational control of the club to dig us out of excrement we've been mired in over the last decade but there is nothing in Ratcliffe's professional record of sporting accomplishment that suggests that he's anything like a sporting performance turnaround master. What he has shown mastery of making money, but the Glazers have also mastered making money. Together they may well make more money for themselves and that's wonderful for them, but only hopes and dreams would allow any one of us to believe that Ratcliffe has the toolkit to propel United to competing for major trophies again.

Agree.

And well done for not drinking the kool aid.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

It seems to me that having 75 is a larger number than 25, whether in terms of percentages or goals scored, so I'm struggling with the idea that an individual who will have 25% ownership stake would ever have more control than an group of individuals who together will have a 75% ownership stake. True, the 75% ownership stake group could agree that the 25% stakeholder than he will have full operational control of the club, but in the real world that will never, ever happen.

Perhaps Ratcliffe doesn't need full operational control of the club to dig us out of excrement we've been mired in over the last decade but there is nothing in Ratcliffe's professional record of sporting accomplishment that suggests that he's anything like a sporting performance turnaround master. What he has shown mastery of making money, but the Glazers have also mastered making money. Together they may well make more money for themselves and that's wonderful for them, but only hopes and dreams would allow any one of us to believe that Ratcliffe has the toolkit to propel United to competing for major trophies again.

They won't have 75%, they have 69% now and they'll have 44% once Ratcliff buys in, is my understanding. What people are saying is that Ratcliff won't be buying 25% without conditions. Many suspect that involves agreements to buy the Glazers out at certain prices or times.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Ineos will own more than any singular Glazer. Together they will own more than him but he wouldn't be very far away from from being majority owner

How? With 12.5%, he'd be the smallest class B shareholder.

 

[lsd]

They will own 75% of the club… say it to yourself again - seventy five percent.

Obviously they will control the club despite whatever media tripe the fanbase is placidly swallowing at the moment.



That’s my exact question.

Why is he taking over an asset to guide it to a higher value - only to then have to pay FAR more for the asset due to his own investment.

And none of the half baked, paper thin explanations from armchair accountants cut the mustard.

People are clutching at straws because they don’t like the Occam’s Razor explanation of a minority investor getting into bed with the Glazers, helping them to remain at the club and propping the club up temporarily and then cashing in with the Glazers at a later date.

They don't own 75% and never did. They owned 69% and we don't know yet where Jim is getting his 25% if its theirs or others and i suspect it's theirs.

 

[MDFC Manager]

They won't have 75%, they have 69% now and they'll have 44% once Ratcliff buys in, is my understanding. What people are saying is that Ratcliff won't be buying 25% without conditions. Many suspect that involves agreements to buy the Glazers out at certain prices or times.

Glazers will have 56.5%, Jim isn't buying 25% of Glazer stake.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

If the others wanted a full sale they would simply vote against this daft Ratcliffe deal and prevent it.

They could easily force a full sale if they want out and every other shareholder would back them.

They are very much a unit and are in it together, albeit less visibly than the aforementioned Joel and Avram.

Then that would depress the price they could get, obviously, if they made it clear they wanted out. They're obviously aligned, in the end, on the Jassim bid not being enough. You and I have no idea though how long the other Glazers want to hold on.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

Glazers will have 56.5%, Jim isn't buying 25% of Glazer stake.

There are different views on this, so I'm assuming this isn't confirmed.

 

[Laurencio]

If the others wanted a full sale they would simply vote against this daft Ratcliffe deal and prevent it.

They could easily force a full sale if they want out and every other shareholder would back them.

They are very much a unit and are in it together, albeit less visibly than the aforementioned Joel and Avram.

I understand your viewpoint, but it simply isn't financially logical. Avram and Joel genuinly believe the club will be worth 10-15bn after the WC in 2026. To you and me, and everyone else that sounds like pure fantasy, that the numbers simply do not back up. However, that is what they believe. Reported multiple times by multiple financial outlets.

If you believe that if you sit on an investment for 3 years, which is nothing in the grand scheme of things, you can make twice as much money as is being offered - you sit on it.

In order to do that they needed minority investment and were exploring deals with US firms over selling media rights (mostly after 2026, those cheeky bastards). Ratcliffe comes in with an offer to buy the club long term and provide that minority investment now.

The choice was not Jassim or Ratcliffe, Jassim never met their valuation. It was Ratcliffe or a series of US media companies and hedge funds eating away our future profits - our own levers.

 

[MDFC Manager]

There are different views on this, so I'm assuming this isn't confirmed.

Correct, it's not, but I don't see the class A holders allowing anything else without a legal fight.

 

[Laurencio]

Your expectations are on the floor. The club came out what 2 years ago and hired the same company who built Spurs stadium to start drawing up plans. They even sent every member a questionnaire asking what the priority for a new/updated ground should be

The club is getting sold and we’re getting a 200m investment? its like throwing a pin in the ocean for the work that needs doing. I’m sorry but what a disappointment.

If Ratcliffe's guys like those plans I expect building will start within 2 years, if not it will take longer. There's no reason why they would announce a 2 bn stadium project before then.

Correct, it's not, but I don't see the class A holders allowing anything else without a legal fight.

Yeah, it's bound to be split, and in a way that ensures the Glazers retain over 50% majority I reckon.

 

[L1nk]

The Glazers are a unit, that’s we pluralise their name.

The Glazers own Man Utd, Ratcliffe is a minority investor who is giving the Glazers a lifeline to remain at the club.

Everything else is spin.

I see you were sold the fake Qatari dream and you just cannot let go

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I see you were sold the fake Qatari dream and you just cannot let go

Yes, because pointing out the fact that Ratcliffe is a minority investor is delusional, whereas laughing smugly at Utd going down the pan is the clearly the victory we all want.

Keep laughing, let’s see how smug you feel in the future mate.

 

[USREDEVIL]

The Glazers are a unit, that’s we pluralise their name.

The Glazers own Man Utd, Ratcliffe is a minority investor who is giving the Glazers a lifeline to remain at the club.

Everything else is spin.

Well put. Bookmark this.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Yeah, it's bound to be split, and in a way that ensures the Glazers retain over 50% majority I reckon.

Yes I reckon the new controlling structure will likely look like he's the seventh Glazer.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I see you were sold the fake Qatari dream and you just cannot let go

But none of what he said is wrong?

 

[croadyman]

Nowhere near enough tbh, needs 5 times the amount suggested but let's see what happens, there has to be a statement of clarity put out once this is confirmed.

Yeah times that by £245m and you would get to around the figure Jassim wanted to invest for stadium,training renovation etc

 

[Castia]

For you to believe this you would have to first trust the story of the investment but choose to not believe the angle that it’s just an opening number?
Im not a fan of this takeover but he isn’t paying that much money to leave it in the wind.

I mean what’s his plan to build stand by stand? keep starting up reconstruction every couple of years? pretty sure in the long run that would cost a lot more than getting it done as 1 job.

To be honest Jim needs to either sit down and talk or leak his idea for the club because my money is on him being absolutely delighted sitting on a 25% with sporting control. The Glazers were on their knees and he’s given them a lifeline to stay.

 

[Godfather]

I see you were sold the fake Qatari dream and you just cannot let go

How come the anti Qatar brigade really is by far the most childish on here? Nothing he said is wrong or had anything to do with Qatar?

 

[L1nk]

Yes, because pointing out the fact that Ratcliffe is a minority investor is delusional, whereas laughing smugly at Utd going down the pan is the clearly the victory we all want.

Keep laughing, let’s see how smug you feel in the future mate.

You're just being massively overdramatic about the whole thing. Before I even say anymore, I never wanted either SJ or Ratcliffe, but what other choice is there.

At no point has SJ proposed a serious bid, it was all bluster and paying twitter accounts to shill for his bid instead of.. you know.. just offering what the Glazers wanted. It has been well reported what they wanted since the beginning and SJ offered well below that, where as Ratcliffe's bid values it more inline with what they want. You seem to forget Ratcliffe also offered for 100% but quite frankly it seems pretty obvious that the Glazers never wanted to sell the club right now, at least not Joel and Avram.

So if the Glazers never seriously considered SJ's offer and didn't seem to be that interested in Ratcliffe's 100% bid either, what other choice is there, minority investment from leech companies that have no interest in the club? Ratcliffe has done what he has done in order to get a foot in the door with a look to, as reported, fully takeover further down the line when the Glazers are more inclined to sell.

Manchester United makes nowhere near enough money for Ratcliffe to use it as a cash cow, the guys a billionaire with a company that rakes in 60+ billion annually,

I genuinely have no idea what you are crying about

Again, well reported..

Ratcliffe will be taking over the sporting side of the club, this means, again well reported, bringing in new people including likely Paul Mitchell as DOF, actual investment into structure and such. Like genuinely what more do you want except to throw your toys out of the pram and cry about the Glazers and SJ

Who doesn't want the Glazers gone but they don't give a shit what you want and they own the club, they'll sell it on their terms and when they want. I for one welcome Ratcliffe in his efforts to oust these parasites even if it takes a few years to fully happen. It's something.

Clearly i'm 'laughing smugly at Utd going down the pan' as if United haven't gone so far down the pan years ago that they aren't even visible anymore, we are so far beyond down the pan 'mate' that it is laughable actually. Apparently somebody trying to take over the whole club a few years down the line and actively investing in the club which the Glazers have failed to do since dayt 1 apparently means the club is in the toilet.

 

[L1nk]

How come the anti Qatar brigade really is by far the most childish on here? Nothing he said is wrong or had anything to do with Qatar?

I'm not anti Qatar, I'm anti both of the bidders. But his response is clearly salty about the Ratcliffe situation because it's a minority stake initially, it's quite funny and extremely over dramatic, without knowing any facts or apparently reading any reports

Anything positive about Ratcliffe is just 'PR' but i'm the childish one? Come on

 

[MDFC Manager]

Manchester United makes nowhere near enough money for Ratcliffe to use it as a cash cow, the guys a billionaire with a company that rakes in 60+ billion annually,

Didn't stop the billionaire from taking £37.5m dividends out of Mercedes F1. Those people literally live on dividends.

 

[Rado_N]

Why do people insist on using INIOS revenue when trying to bang on about the money they have?

You know revenue isn’t profit, much less reserves, right?

 

[MDFC Manager]

I mean what’s his plan to build stand by stand? keep starting up reconstruction every couple of years? pretty sure in the long run that would cost a lot more than getting it done as 1 job.

To be honest Jim needs to either sit down and talk or leak his idea for the club because my money is on him being absolutely delighted sitting on a 25% with sporting control. The Glazers were on their knees and he’s given them a lifeline to stay.

Exactly my view as well.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Why do people insist on using INIOS revenue when trying to bang on about the money they have?

You know revenue isn’t profit, much less reserves, right?

Even stranger when it's reported it's not even being funded by ineos but Jim's personal leverage. There's definite need to be cautious as a fanbase here.

 

[Laurencio]

I mean what’s his plan to build stand by stand? keep starting up reconstruction every couple of years? pretty sure in the long run that would cost a lot more than getting it done as 1 job.

To be honest Jim needs to either sit down and talk or leak his idea for the club because my money is on him being absolutely delighted sitting on a 25% with sporting control. The Glazers were on their knees and he’s given them a lifeline to stay.

Why would the 300M go to that? We need to build a new stadium to the tune of 2bn or revamp the old one to the tune of 1.5-3bn+, it's not reasonable to think any of that 300M is going towards that.

 

[Castia]

Why would the 300M go to that? We need to build a new stadium to the tune of 2bn or revamp the old one to the tune of 1.5-3bn+, it's not reasonable to think any of that 300M is going towards that.

The statement/stories are saying 300m is for stadium infrastructure and that’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s a lick of paint for OT instead of the rebuild that it needs

 

[Stevondo8]

The statement/stories are saying 300m is for stadium infrastructure and that’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s a lick of paint for OT instead of the rebuild that it needs

Sporting infrastructure isn’t it? So could be training ground

 

[Laurencio]

Didn't stop the billionaire from taking £37.5m dividends out of Mercedes F1. Those people literally live on dividends.

Dividends are awesome, nothing wrong with that. It's not running the club properly that is the problem.

The statement/stories are saying 300m is for stadium infrastructure and that’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s a lick of paint for OT instead of the rebuild that it needs

It says physical infrastructure - that could easily be Carrington+ a whole host of other stuff. City's state of the art training complex was 200M with land acquisitions and state of the art fascilities. 300M can do a lot if it is spent correctly.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[JohnnyKills]

Is this normal? Thought the manager decides on the playing style?

Does he? Surely it's better if the DoF decides which style we're going to play (possession, counter-attack etc). Then picks the coach to suit.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

You're just being massively overdramatic about the whole thing. Before I even say anymore, I never wanted either SJ or Ratcliffe, but what other choice is there.

At no point has SJ proposed a serious bid, it was all bluster and paying twitter accounts to shill for his bid instead of.. you know.. just offering what the Glazers wanted. It has been well reported what they wanted since the beginning and SJ offered well below that, where as Ratcliffe's bid values it more inline with what they want. You seem to forget Ratcliffe also offered for 100% but quite frankly it seems pretty obvious that the Glazers never wanted to sell the club right now, at least not Joel and Avram.

So if the Glazers never seriously considered SJ's offer and didn't seem to be that interested in Ratcliffe's 100% bid either, what other choice is there, minority investment from leech companies that have no interest in the club? Ratcliffe has done what he has done in order to get a foot in the door with a look to, as reported, fully takeover further down the line when the Glazers are more inclined to sell.

Manchester United makes nowhere near enough money for Ratcliffe to use it as a cash cow, the guys a billionaire with a company that rakes in 60+ billion annually,

I thought Ineos group turnover was less than that, but regardless it’s a lot.

But turnover is different from profit, which is different from EBITDA, which is different from CFADS, which is different from Retained Profits and Balance Street strength. The first two are nice, the third a bit useful, the last three much more important.

I actually don’t see Ineos struggling any time soon or Ratcliffe having an issue meeting any debt servicing requirements, but given the surplus profits we create, he shouldn’t. The key is what he’ll invest, where it goes, when and how funded… right now (and appreciate huge deal/NDAs.. lol), we don’t know details. I’ll be a lot happier when they’re available.

Happy to give him a chance and hoping he can transform lots of issues we have, but if all he does is take no dividends and puts a better football structure in, that’d be a big step forward.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Dividends are awesome, nothing wrong with that. It's not running the club properly that is the problem.



It says physical infrastructure - that could easily be Carrington+ a whole host of other stuff. City's state of the art training complex was 200M with land acquisitions and state of the art fascilities. 300M can do a lot if it is spent correctly.

We'll be fine financially. We'll always earn enough to service the debt. It's just a question of how we spend it.

 

[Laurencio]

Does he? Surely it's better if the DoF decides which style we're going to play (possession, counter-attack etc). Then picks the coach to suit.

Stop being so sensible.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Dividends are awesome, nothing wrong with that. It's not running the club properly that is the problem.

Yes agree 100%. If Jim can fix the running of the club with 25% ownership, bloody great.

 

[Cassidy]

Yes agree 100%. If Jim can fix the running of the club with 25% ownership, bloody great.

Without full control of club funds he wont be fixing much

 

[Rhyme Animal]

You're just being massively overdramatic about the whole thing. Before I even say anymore, I never wanted either SJ or Ratcliffe, but what other choice is there.

At no point has SJ proposed a serious bid, it was all bluster and paying twitter accounts to shill for his bid instead of.. you know.. just offering what the Glazers wanted. It has been well reported what they wanted since the beginning and SJ offered well below that, where as Ratcliffe's bid values it more inline with what they want. You seem to forget Ratcliffe also offered for 100% but quite frankly it seems pretty obvious that the Glazers never wanted to sell the club right now, at least not Joel and Avram.

So if the Glazers never seriously considered SJ's offer and didn't seem to be that interested in Ratcliffe's 100% bid either, what other choice is there, minority investment from leech companies that have no interest in the club? Ratcliffe has done what he has done in order to get a foot in the door with a look to, as reported, fully takeover further down the line when the Glazers are more inclined to sell.

Manchester United makes nowhere near enough money for Ratcliffe to use it as a cash cow, the guys a billionaire with a company that rakes in 60+ billion annually,

I genuinely have no idea what you are crying about

Again, well reported..

Ratcliffe will be taking over the sporting side of the club, this means, again well reported, bringing in new people including likely Paul Mitchell as DOF, actual investment into structure and such. Like genuinely what more do you want except to throw your toys out of the pram and cry about the Glazers and SJ

Who doesn't want the Glazers gone but they don't give a shit what you want and they own the club, they'll sell it on their terms and when they want. I for one welcome Ratcliffe in his efforts to oust these parasites even if it takes a few years to fully happen. It's something.

Clearly i'm 'laughing smugly at Utd going down the pan' as if United haven't gone so far down the pan years ago that they aren't even visible anymore, we are so far beyond down the pan 'mate' that it is laughable actually. Apparently somebody trying to take over the whole club a few years down the line and actively investing in the club which the Glazers have failed to do since dayt 1 apparently means the club is in the toilet.

Sorry, but your post is just utter nonsense, and also very poorly written to boot.

Suggesting that the 92F bid was ‘never serious’ makes it clear that you’re abandoning sound logic for daft conspiracy.

You’re talking about the only bidder other than Ratcliffe, in a process that has dragged on for a year… if the 92F bids and negotiation were just ‘fake bro’, Ratcliffe and his Glazer chums would already have their deal signed and sealed.

You claim at some point in your outpouring that Ratcliffe wouldn’t use Utd to make or extract money… hmm, you might want to Google ‘Ratcliffe dividends Mercedes’ and then get back to us with what you learn.

Your angle of anyone who’s critical, concerned or angry at this deal as being ‘crying for Qatar’ really does nothing but showcase your own bitterness on the topic, as does your conspiracy theory rhetoric regarding the 92F’s bids and pledges for the club.

The majority of true Utd fans want the Glazers removed from the club, and with them - and the club - being on their knees, grovelling around for investment, Ratcliffe has bailed them out.

If that doesn’t make you angry, I don’t know what to tell you.

If you find it funny to sit on online forums, laughing at other Man Utd fans who have a greater understanding of what this means for the club than you appear to have, and making silly comments about these fans ‘crying for Qatar’ then I pity you, and I fear for the future of Man Utd.

 

[Laurencio]

Without full control of club funds he wont be fixing much

If you hand pick the CEO, the DOF and sit on the board with 25%+ voting power. You can do almost anything. The big projects need Glazer approval, but it's in their best interest for the club to be worth as much as possible before a sale date. What are they going to do, say no to letting Ratcliffe buy a training complex with his own money?

The main concern is obviously transfers, which none of us know how will be impacted.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Dividends being taken out are fine. It’s just in our situation the owners who take dividends from the coffers are pretty incompetent football-wise. Boehlys a meme of an owner too but at least he’s hiring sporting directors to run stuff for him. He didn’t enlist his chief financial adviser to run the football side of things like the Glazers did. The Glazers have done nothing of the sort in their two decades here. Internal promotion at best with them.