Club Sale | It’s done!

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I think I just expected more from them. I was lead to believe these guys despise losing and would do whatever it takes etc.

They’ll just win with another club mate. Of the 92 group it’s only Jassim that’s known as a huge Utd fan, literally all the others may not be bothered which PL team they takeover in order to compete with City and Newcastle.

They could buy West Ham or Palace for pennies and then punish the Glazers for their insult - and I firmly believe they will…

I would!
 
Ineos have offered a 25% investment to class A and Class B shares, it would be almost impossible now for the Class A shareholders to object as Qatar offer is no longer on the table and therefore this is the only option on the table. I’ve spoke. To a pal in Qatar and apparently SJ/92 made another bid 48 hours ago which was circa £5.7-5.8 billion with the debt of £700m to be deducted.

So there was a sixth offer which was rejected, instantly and the Glazers apparently asked. for £7 billion inclusive of debt for their 69% shares at which point SJ/92 rejected the bid, hence INEOS leaking yesterday, we should hear confirmation of 25% INEOS investment very shortly and a puff piece from the British press about how good Jimmy The Rat will be for the club going forward !!!

My mate in Qatar. :lol:

Apparently, there was no increased last min bid...

 
Why would the Glazers give up footballing control? It looks like they think the money is with the TV deals, which they will be managing. To be fair, they are better at the commercial side than the football side - still not great but at least passable.

Well if we're honest they've never cared about the day to day running of United. Happy to let Gill and Woodward basically get on with it while they leech money from the club like parasites.

I could see them being happy for Ratcliffe to do the same while they still use United as a cash cow.
 
Allegedly the glazers want way over market value for the club. The £5billion offer was seen a premoum price, but alledgly the glazers want £9-10billion for the club. Which everyone involved in football finance thinks is absolutely crackers.

There a billion in debt, there 1.5 billion needing to be spent on updating the training ground and stadium. Thats before spending anything on the team.

Ratcliffe bid for 25% if successful will then be followed by a very long and slow process of buulding up the percentage of the club owned. Just like Usmanov at arsenal. Buying shares when institutions are willing to sell.

So we are stuck with the parasites for a long while yet.

Do you know this for certain?

How do you know there isnt already agreements to buy more Glazer stock in the near future?

Everyone rushing to judgment and saying this, or that, will happen next.

Let it play out, because a week and a half ago, the 25% news came out of the blue.
 
Stop talking in finality in matters you dont know well.
Glazers in 2021 sold shares worth 250M, and zero penny was put to the club.

The 25% sale is Glazers + other shareholders selling their shares. Not Glazers only.
The board will decide what to do with the Glazers gotten funds ONLY. But history has shown Glazers when they sell their shares they don't invest back to the club such money.

I have a feeling the deal will collapse if people pump up pressure. Glazers know what they are doing.

Rio & Gary have not made a post after all this news broke. No high profile United fan, not these content creators, has made a single post regarding this news. Because this is a disaster development.

Nobody is against Jim takeover, problem is Jim is sleeping with Glazers. If Jim had 100% takeover I can tell you people would be very positive. But minority with Glazers staying still in control has given Glazers another lifeline.

Imagine it took 1 year to sell 25% of the club, what time will it take to sell 75%? Let nobody cheat you it's written in agreements, agreements are not one sided even Glazers will protect their asses in that agreement.

Glazers might not sell to Jim more shares in future. Because if it would why not sell to him 35%,40%, 45% now, why stick at 25%.

If buying 40% is a problem in 2023 what about buying 50% in 2026?

The anger people have is not even not having investments to the club, it's we needed a clean start, new ideas, new fresh breath. Jim has really killed that.

If Glazers refused your offer, step out. Like Qatari have done. Let Glazers continue to deal with the fans. It shows you know where the problem lies and solution to it.

Manchester United problems is Glazers induced. Anything prolonging that problem is an enemy to the club. Jim has done that.


Well said!
 
I don't understand how this is supposed to work? So Ineos takes over the footballing side and the money side is controlled by the Glazers? So we'll have 2 horses pulling in two different directions?
This is something even I am not able to understand. The money still belongs to the club which is still owned by the Glazers. How can anyone with just 25% stake call the shots on how United's money is spent without the approval from the Board? I mean that's where fiduciary responsibilities come in. It's like the CEO going about taking unilateral decisions on investments even though he only has a small stake in the company.
I feel Ratcliffe and co could well be driving the structural revamp but the Glazers would still have to rubber stamp the moves if it means money being involved to make those changes. We will see soon enough.
 
This is something even I am not able to understand. The money still belongs to the club which is still owned by the Glazers. How can anyone with just 25% stake call the shots on how United's money is spent without the approval from the Board? I mean that's where fiduciary responsibilities come in. It's like the CEO going about taking unilateral decisions on investments even though he only has a small stake in the company.
I feel Ratcliffe and co could well be driving the structural revamp but the Glazers would still have to rubber stamp the moves if it means money being involved to make those changes. We will see soon enough.

I actually don't think it's too complicated. 25% allegedly buys you the "footballing decisions/control". So all of the decision makers and staff that are to be defined as "footballing" would be under the control of someone that is "the INEOS person". The commercial and financial side simply informs the footballing side how much money is available.

I think people are getting a lot of this confused. Nothing is changing on the "money to buy players" side. The INEOS purchase is essentially a personnel shake up. There will have to be a "re-defining" of which staff will be seen as purely "football operation" staff, but those staff will be the ones that can be changed/sacked/promoted by "the INEOS person" that ultimately runs the "footballing side".

When it comes to buying players, they are still going to have to work within the Glazers or the "commercial" realm of the company. Ratcliffe has given the glazers money to make decisions, not spend money that doesn't exist.

If folks want to think about this in terms of actual football decisions....a positive INEOS impact is that we sign Amrabat earlier, and potentially as a full deal because we pushed through the sales that never happened.

The best we can hope for from INEOS as of this deal is better decision making, and I don't think a lot of people realise that is all this is right now.
 
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This is not how sporting control works.

The club is mad up of a number of companies.

Alderley Urban Investments Limited
Manchester United Commercial Enterprises (Ireland) Ltd
Manchester United Development Ltd
Manchester United Football Club Limited
Manchester United Foundation Ltd
Manchester United Foundation (Trading) Ltd
Manchester United Interactive Limited
Manchester United Limited
Manchester United Women’s Football Club Limited
MUTV

Essentially sporting control means they are in control of;

Manchester United Football Club Limited
Manchester United Women’s Football Club Limited
Manchester United Limited

At the very least.

Which means they control everything related to those companies. Budgets, staff, structure, etc. There likely won't be anything about the club itself that the Glazers or their management will be involved in, with the exception of boardroom politics.



I would think they would have to include Ratcliffe and his INEOS partners.
In terms of revenue generated and shared, will all the revenue generated by the club fall under this ambit? Does each of the company have a separate Board and does this mean Ineos takes majority control in that Board? Quite intriguing this.
 
Stop talking in finality in matters you dont know well.
Glazers in 2021 sold shares worth 250M, and zero penny was put to the club.

The 25% sale is Glazers + other shareholders selling their shares. Not Glazers only.
The board will decide what to do with the Glazers gotten funds ONLY. But history has shown Glazers when they sell their shares they don't invest back to the club such money.

I have a feeling the deal will collapse if people pump up pressure. Glazers know what they are doing.

Rio & Gary have not made a post after all this news broke. No high profile United fan, not these content creators, has made a single post regarding this news. Because this is a disaster development.

Nobody is against Jim takeover, problem is Jim is sleeping with Glazers. If Jim had 100% takeover I can tell you people would be very positive. But minority with Glazers staying still in control has given Glazers another lifeline.

Imagine it took 1 year to sell 25% of the club, what time will it take to sell 75%? Let nobody cheat you it's written in agreements, agreements are not one sided even Glazers will protect their asses in that agreement.

Glazers might not sell to Jim more shares in future. Because if it would why not sell to him 35%,40%, 45% now, why stick at 25%.

If buying 40% is a problem in 2023 what about buying 50% in 2026?

The anger people have is not even not having investments to the club, it's we needed a clean start, new ideas, new fresh breath. Jim has really killed that.

If Glazers refused your offer, step out. Like Qatari have done. Let Glazers continue to deal with the fans. It shows you know where the problem lies and solution to it.

Manchester United problems is Glazers induced. Anything prolonging that problem is an enemy to the club. Jim has done that.
Give this man a like. Much worse has gotten much more in this forum recently
 
A lot of people saying they had no intention to sell the whole club etc., but that just fails to understand the situation. The Glazers were always going to do what’s best for them, and only them. Jassim wanted to buy 100% of the club for about 5.2 or 5.3bn. The Glazers own 69% of that (forget voting rights for a second). That offer valued the Glazer’s shares at about 33 each. The fact the offer had another 1.5bn for infrastructure etc., was of immense interest to fans but none to the Glazers, who are looking at the share price offer.

Jim has put in an offer that values their shares at 45 each. That’s a massive premium over Jassim. He’s paid that premium to assume sporting control, and will have an agreement in place to buy remaining Glazer shares at a pre-agreed price, or price window, a condition which is probably time barred and also perhaps influenced by overall financial performance.

The Glazers didn’t sell all their shares yet, but with Jim’s offer they’ve established a club value of around 6bn, which is considermore than the 5.2bn Jassim was offering. They’ll now eventually sell up at a price probably between 35-45 per share, I don’t think it’ll be as high as the initial stake because you can’t sell sporting control twice, but it’ll still be higher than the 33 per share Jassim was offering.

And that’s what it all comes down to. How much they get per share. Jassim was miles off Jim’s offer, and all the other stuff like infrastructure investment etc., was completely irrelevant to them. They give zero fecks about the club when they own it. Laughable to think they would care one jot about what happens to it after they sell.

If Jassim wanted it, he was always going to have to pay 6-6.5bn. This was said right at the beginning and it remained the case to the end when they secured a partial sale at the valuation they always stated they wanted.

Jassim was banking on them needing to sell, fan pressure, the lure of investment etc; but he was a billion short of the price. He evidently thought the price would go down, but clearly underestimated how stubborn and patient these leeches are. I am actually quite surprised at the naivety of the Qatari approach.

At the end of the day, this is the first step towards getting the Glazers out. But it’s going to take another 3-7 years to accomplish I reckon. No surprised there. They’ll drain every penny possible. But I’m quietly relieved it’s not Qatar. Whatever anyone says Jassim was just a front for Qatari state. And that’s not who should own United.

We now have 25% owners who will manage the sporting side, who actually care about the club and will provide it with so much more direction than the vacuum the Glazer’s left. Let’s see what happens over the next few years. More questions than answers at this point; but we are better off than we were yesterday, when we were fully under the Glazers.
Well said, and should be shown to anyone who still thinks the glazers might have an imaginary numberb or not wanting to sell. Looks like Ratcliffe and his people out finessed the Qataris by simply making a better offer.
 
It's actually don't think it's too complicated. 25% allegedly buys you the "footballing decisions/control". So all of the decision makers and staff that are to be defined as "footballing" would be under the control of someone that is "the INEOS person". The commercial and financial side simply informs the footballing side how much money is available.

I think people are getting a lot of this confused. Nothing is changing on the "money to buy players" side. The INEOS purchase is essentially a personnel shake up. There will have to be a "re-defining" of which staff will be seen as purely "football operation" staff, but those staff will be the ones that can be changed/sacked/promoted by "the INEOS person" that ultimately runs the "footballing side".

When it comes to buying players, they are still going to have to work within the Glazers or the "commercial" realm of the company. Ratcliffe has given the glazers money to make decisions, not spend money that doesn't exist.

If folks want to think about this in terms of actual football decisions....a positive INEOS impact is that we sign Amrabat earlier, and potentially as a full deal because we pushed through the sales that never happened.

The best we can hope for from INEOS as of this deal is better decision making, and I don't think a lot of people realise that is all this is right now.
This but also INEOS will be pumping money into the club itself.

For instance they have bought the 25% but they will also invest a separate fee / money into the club based on what’s required for instance redevelopment of the stadium or staffing.

It’s said their focus will be on player and infrastructure staff.

As far as I understand it the 1.5bln is financed by JPMorgan etc and is a fee to the Glazers/shareholders just cash for them, they aren’t taking that cash and splitting it into pots and some of that cash goes into the club.

That 1.5bln is not the investment into the club it’s the purchase fee for 25%. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or bad thing but means INEOS will be voting at board level in terms of plugging cash into the club.

Alternatively they won’t push any cash in until
They have the 100%
 
Let’s just ignore the club debt that affects FFP shall we?
I’m not an INEOS fan but any investment into training ground and stadium does not affect FFP under Uefa Rules.

United can be in debt and still use an inter company loan from INEOS of £1 billion and then agree for the increased revenue generated to pay back the loan without any FFP repercussions. Therefore becomes self financing.

The Club on the other hand can spend 80% of its revenue next summer and may still have about £100m left to spend this January from FSP to 22/23. The Glazer probably had no cash available this winter but INEOS can invest or dare I say it arrange loans for K Thurham and Todibo from Nice, he could do that and there’s not much anyone can do about that as theoretically he’s not an owner of both clubs only one?

What would need to happen to prevent any FFP sanctions or potential bans is an initial investment of £30m before January 1st 2023 and then he can invest another £30m next year and then the third payment in 2025, that’s the maximum £90m that you are allowed to invest as an owner, and he’s being named as a co owner already which is clever.

if he’s in charge of all footballing matters, then he can create a budget this winter by investing his own money plus the £30m to put us back in the black for FFP. The club spent approximately £171m and received approximately £56m but net spend £115m however we sold £40m of homegrown talent which would increase our budget from £150m to about £300m but the glazers didn’t have the actual cash to do anything like that so he might make available £150m for January plus player sales.

My guess is Sir Jimmy Rat will want to try and win over the fans straight away but at the same time try and look likes he’s backing ETH but he’ll bypass John Murtourgh who will be a casualty straight away.

He’ll also sort out J Sancho straight away, sell or loan.basically he’ll try and Give ETH the best opportunity to succeed; I think he’ll try and bring in Todibo, I Toney, a top midfielder and maybe another Goalkeeper. Although the days of Eric only wanting Dutch are over.
 
Some epic tantrums in here since this news broke, but it is undoubtedly a good thing that Manchester United will not become a sportswashing vehicle for a despicable regime like the Qatari ruling family.

I don't love Ratcliffe and nor do I love the 25% deal that's been proposed, but it is infinitely preferable to the Qatari alternative. As always with these things, the devil is in the detail and we'll need to wait to see how this Ineos deal shakes out.
 
Btw, any new debt will be on INEOS, which is chump change compared to their revenue. Please know that debt is not always bad.

If I was Ratcliffe I would understand the 1 or 2 top concerns of Utd fans is the debt, and I would appease them by removing any debt and putting it all on INEOS, not just the new debt.
 
Ratcliffe does not want all of United, he just wants a controlling stake. The valuation is just higher than Jassim, but will pay less than Jassim overall.

There will be a point at which all the Glazer family may sell their stake in the next 10 years, and Ratcliff will most like put a clause for first refusal at the current valuation of his bid, which could be lower than the valuation in 10 years time. He is winning by playing smart.
 
Avram_Glazer-14jpg-JS848633974.jpg

That dog is better taken care of than our club.

Is that Mick Hucknall conspiring with the Glazers! fecking traitor
 
Well it’s a good thing he’s never been DoF isn’t it!


I don’t get that, rebuilt and expand Old Trafford, so are they rebuilding or are they expanding? :lol:
Ratcliffe has a history of not doing what he says. Not just at Nice but in business in general.
 
Btw, any new debt will be on INEOS, which is chump change compared to their revenue. Please know that debt is not always bad.

If I was Ratcliffe I would understand the 1 or 2 top concerns of Utd fans is the debt, and I would appease them by removing any debt and putting it all on INEOS, not just the new debt.
Dreary me, I have a business needing investment are you up for it ? Why would Ineos take any of United debt to appease anyone whilst knowing full well that the main shareholders will not invest a dime.
 
Dreary me, I have a business needing investment are you up for it ? Why would Ineos take any of United debt to appease anyone whilst knowing full well that the main shareholders will not invest a dime.

Taking the debt onto Ineos doesn’t necessarily mean there’s no debt. This can mean buying the note from the current holder, and having United pay Ineos instead. That means any interest paid will be paid to one of our shareholders instead of a bank. It can also mean better terms and more flexibility. It can also be secured against shares in the club and converted to equity at any given time. Exactly how RA provided Chelsea with loans.

There are a lot of options. The club can clearly service the debt but if Ineos can pay it off and issue a new note, it may benefit all parties. They may also take their own note to pay off the existing note, but due to their debt service ratio get much better terms, which United cover. Again, options.
 
Taking the debt onto Ineos doesn’t necessarily mean there’s no debt. This can mean buying the note from the current holder, and having United pay Ineos instead. That means any interest paid will be paid to one of our shareholders instead of a bank. It can also mean better terms and more flexibility. It can also be secured against shares in the club and converted to equity at any given time. Exactly how RA provided Chelsea with loans.

There are a lot of options. The club can clearly service the debt but if Ineos can pay it off and issue a new note, it may benefit all parties. They may also take their own note to pay off the existing note, but due to their debt service ratio get much better terms, which United cover. Again, options.

Thanks for expanding for the idiot over here.
 
Ratcliffe does not want all of United, he just wants a controlling stake. The valuation is just higher than Jassim, but will pay less than Jassim overall.

There will be a point at which all the Glazer family may sell their stake in the next 10 years, and Ratcliff will most like put a clause for first refusal at the current valuation of his bid, which could be lower than the valuation in 10 years time. He is winning by playing smart.
10 years is a long time. I’m not sure Ratcliffe is still alive by that point.
 
Stop talking in finality in matters you dont know well.
Glazers in 2021 sold shares worth 250M, and zero penny was put to the club.

The 25% sale is Glazers + other shareholders selling their shares. Not Glazers only.
The board will decide what to do with the Glazers gotten funds ONLY. But history has shown Glazers when they sell their shares they don't invest back to the club such money.

I have a feeling the deal will collapse if people pump up pressure. Glazers know what they are doing.

Rio & Gary have not made a post after all this news broke. No high profile United fan, not these content creators, has made a single post regarding this news. Because this is a disaster development.

Nobody is against Jim takeover, problem is Jim is sleeping with Glazers. If Jim had 100% takeover I can tell you people would be very positive. But minority with Glazers staying still in control has given Glazers another lifeline.

Imagine it took 1 year to sell 25% of the club, what time will it take to sell 75%? Let nobody cheat you it's written in agreements, agreements are not one sided even Glazers will protect their asses in that agreement.

Glazers might not sell to Jim more shares in future. Because if it would why not sell to him 35%,40%, 45% now, why stick at 25%.

If buying 40% is a problem in 2023 what about buying 50% in 2026?

The anger people have is not even not having investments to the club, it's we needed a clean start, new ideas, new fresh breath. Jim has really killed that.

If Glazers refused your offer, step out. Like Qatari have done. Let Glazers continue to deal with the fans. It shows you know where the problem lies and solution to it.

Manchester United problems is Glazers induced. Anything prolonging that problem is an enemy to the club. Jim has done that.
Yup. The problem is that some are so anti-Qatar they are blinded by this reality. I'd be ok with Jim taking over even if I think he doesn't really have the funds or nous to take us to the top. Because the Glazers are easily the worst option.
 
What Nice players are worth getting is a question I'm wondering. They must have some good talent
 
I really didn’t think those guys would be so ‘sensible’. Seems very short sighted by them just not to go all out and get it done given the value increase if we got back on track.

Value increase that makes United worth double its market cap?
 
All I've now got is great nostalgic memories of great times. My United is dead( let's wait for a update from jim)
 
Rio’s gone quiet. I really wonder if he was speaking honestly or saw a way to profit. Eg bought shares then pumped them.

Also our very own stock ticker shows how clueless the glazers are about United. It’s $Man Utd

I can’t even post the ticker it gets changed automatically once posted. Basically our ticker is the name only our rivals refer to us as because of how similar it sounds to poo
 
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It is shocking how cock sure some of the posts here are on a 25% deal. Everyone seems to be coming up with their wishlists, and using the argument "billionaire wouldn't throw away the money if it was not for <insert personal wishlist here>"
 
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