Club Sale | It’s done!

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SAFMUTD said:
Lost all hope for this club. Never felt as down as this in any of the ten years. We're completely feck. Not interested in watching games anymore just lost all motivation.
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By reports it seems 25% now and any investment they make including clearing the debt is controlled by INEOS and not the Glazers, so they can make sure it goes in the right place, this includes stadium, training facilities and so pn. They’ll take 100% take over fully within 3-6 years because its written into the contract.

Am i missing something here, what’s with the negativity?
 
Marcelinho87 said:
His share of the dividends it makes zero sense, why would you spend 1.5bn or whatever to make a paltry 3m per year... he won't even come close to breaking even considering he's 70.

The other 2 clubs have massively different requirements and goals than that of Manchester United so they are irrelevant.
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HE is not buying the Club INEOS is buying a 25% stake, Ratcliffe started life at an American hedge fund, his career is littered with leveraged buyouts INEOS will spend little of its own money and will take the £3m a year in dividends they are not going to invest in the club, just to increase the value of the Glaziers share holding while they continue to take their dividends, which will then cost INEOS significantly more to increase their shareholding.
 
For me the prerequisite for our new owners to get my support is investing into our infrastructure. Sort OT out whether it's a new stadium or upgrade, and sort Carrington out.

The Glazers have neglected our infrastructure but they have allowed the club to spend ridiculous amounts of money on transfer fees and wages, post SAF. Our wage bill and big money signings over the past decade have been dwarfed by only one or two clubs.

Between 06 and 2012 we didn't even spend that much but we had a monster at the helm in SAF who worked miracles. I didn't hear too many complaining when we reached 3 CL finals in 4 years and won leagues etc.

I'll be happy to see the back of the Glazers but I can't pretend that they haven't spent a shitload of money.

We spent the same amount of money buying Maguire, Sancho and Ronaldos wages during his disastrous second spell than City did on building the Etihad campus.

I think City will decline when Pep leaves but they have the infrastructure in place to be successful.
 
The Hilton said:
He's wealthy enough if he sells his controlling stake in INEOS, which would be economically suicidal for him.

Short of that, he clearly isn't. He never had a bid for full ownership accepted, he changed the structure to find an amount he could afford that the Glazers would accept.
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I'm actually coming around to this perspective, apologies for being so steadfast in my rebuttal. I was somewhat ignorant of what had been reported so I believed a report that's probably false.
 
L1nk said:
By reports it seems 25% now and any investment they make including clearing the debt is controlled by INEOS and not the Glazers, so they can make sure it goes in the right place, this includes stadium, training facilities and so pn. They’ll take 100% take over fully within 3-6 years because its written into the contract.

Am i missing something here, what’s with the negativity?
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I must have missed it but we don’t actually know anything about the bid. Not sure where you are getting the details from? Would you please share the source?
 
pratyush_utd said:
I must have missed it but we don’t actually know anything about the bid. Not sure where you are getting the details from? Would you please share the source?
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I believe that info is from a YouTube video claiming to have a high level source inside Ineos. I believed it until @VP89 demonstrated that its probably false.
 
L1nk said:
By reports it seems 25% now and any investment they make including clearing the debt is controlled by INEOS and not the Glazers, so they can make sure it goes in the right place, this includes stadium, training facilities and so pn. They’ll take 100% take over fully within 3-6 years because its written into the contract.

Am i missing something here, what’s with the negativity?
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No chance they’re taking on all the clubs debt and putting up the money for the stadium and transfers with just a 25% stake. They could potentially do in …….6 fecking years? load of shite
 
Quality control
L1nk said:
By reports it seems 25% now and any investment they make including clearing the debt is controlled by INEOS and not the Glazers, so they can make sure it goes in the right place, this includes stadium, training facilities and so pn. They’ll take 100% take over fully within 3-6 years because its written into the contract.

Am i missing something here, what’s with the negativity?
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First of all we don't know that, and second that cnut of Radcliffe is a failure as well. Just see Nice in France, see their fan forums they all hate him.

We're feck theres no two ways about it. I blame that decking cnut of Radcliffe the glazers were against the wall and he threw them a lifeline to keep them in charge. A fan my bollocks he's as despicable as the glazers even worse feck the glazers and feck that stupid cnut Radcliffe.
 
Matriac said:
But it can't be a kicking a can down the road thing? Because if all that happens is that some shares are moved around then that solves none of the problems that made the glazers start this process a year ago. Some investment in the club has to happen. To at least maintain the stadium/training facilities, if not fully refurbish. And to hopefully also ease our FFP predicament.

Someone just buying shares won't change the clubs predicament/needs. So likely either the purchase is dependent on that Ineos invests a certain sum in the club for the right of buying shares off the Glazers, or there is another deal in place that further investment in the club by Ineos will count towards the purchase price at a later stage.

Because nothing makes sense about just buying 12.5% off the Glazers and 12.5% off the stock market with nothing else changing. Why would Ineos buy those shares? Maybe if they were an investment firm betting that the Glazers would increase the value of the club in the coming years (likely by investment), meaning that Ineos could sell again with profit down the road. But that doesn't seem to be Ineos' goal here, they (Jim) wants to own and control the club.

Thus he absolutely will require a clear plan to how he can own all of it later, because if not then this is a bad investment for him, and there's no need to buy just the 25% now, since that alone won't guarantee control, nor help increase the value of the company unless someone invests directly.
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Unfortunately most of your point is based on hopeful speculation. I'd love it to be the case, but there's little reason to expect it to be so.

SJR/INEOS buying 25% is nothing more than them handing over money to the owners of those shares in exchange for said shares. For the club to see that money, it would require those previous owners of the shares to inject it in to the club. I think we can agree that's an extremely unlikely scenario. So we'd have to hope that the Glazers agree to count any investment from INEOS against their valuation, which seems pretty unlikely given they aren't a united front, and a couple of them clearly don't want to make a sale any easier.

I hope that there is a clear plan to how he can own it all later, but I really doubt it, as if he could afford to meet the Glazers' valuation then he would have done so.
 
Caellum said:
HE is not buying the Club INEOS is buying a 25% stake, Ratcliffe started life at an American hedge fund, his career is littered with leveraged buyouts INEOS will spend little of its own money and will take the £3m a year in dividends they are not going to invest in the club, just to increase the value of the Glaziers share holding while they continue to take their dividends, which will then cost INEOS significantly more to increase their shareholding.
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This is pathetic. Not just wrong on all accounts, but literally pathetic. Just short from polishing little sheiks penis.
 
I keep hearing Paul Mitchell getting mentions like he’s some sort of football god, hasn't his stock completely fallen off a cliff in recent years? Typical United about 5 years behind the current trend
 
Thom Merrilin said:
I'm actually coming around to this perspective, apologies for being so steadfast in my rebuttal. I was somewhat ignorant of what had been reported so I believed a report that's probably false.
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No apology necessary, you've been debating in good faith and without the condescending tone that is rife across this forum.

I'd love for INEOS to be able to afford it within the next few years, I just don't see how it would be possible. If they could get the money together to meet the valuation within a few years, they'd be able to get a loan and have full control immediately.
 
always_hoping said:
Have been on my travels on all day and just catching up with this news now. Long story short debt is staying and so are the Glazers?
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Debt is staying. Glazers staying however Ratcliffe will purchase part of the club with a pathway to complete control in the next few years (should he decide to do so). Ratcliffe gets complete sporting control as of next week and is going to do a review of the club and most likely appoint a new sporting director like Paul Mitchell.
 
Wumminator said:
Early on in this process I remember a gay fan posting about how he couldn’t support the club if Qatar took over. He got told to “not let the door hit him on the way out”
I posted a report from Amnesty international decrying Qatar’s human rights record and they were lambasted as being woke and virtue signalling.

I hope our gay fans are sleeping easier tonight. I hope whichever heaven the dead migrants highlighted by Amnesty are in are smiling down on this decision.

I do believe we have a long road back to the top. But we are doing it the right way. And to me that means so much.
I hope everyone can understand that.
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I hope your not suggesting INEOS are the good guys chargeing in to save United.

INEOS have an appalling record when it comes to both the way they treat there workers and an even worse record on the way they treat the environment from polluting the Manchester Ship Canal to the catalogue of disaster highlighted in a recent report.


New Report Takes Hard Look at Chemical Giant’s Trail of Pollution

WASHINGTON, DC/BRUSSELS—Facilities owned by the massive chemical corporation Ineos are responsible for scores of serious health and safety violations across the globe, a troubling record that should move United Kingdom leaders to slam the brakes on the company’s push to begin fracking in the United Kingdom. Ineos has never drilled a commercial gas or oil well, and its indifferent safety record in chemical plants justifies blocking its foray into fracking.

A new issue brief from Food & Water Watch and Food & Water Europe examines Ineos plants in the UK, and across Europe and the United States. The company’s 71 facilities in 18 countries are responsible for a vast array of accidents, chemical leaks, fires and explosions, and substantial air and climate pollution.

“From towering chemical fires in Germany to toxic air pollution in Scotland and plastic pellets littering our oceans, Ineos’s safety record is appalling,” said Wenonah Hauter, executive director of Food & Water Watch.
 
Hopefully Ratcliffe gets 100% of the club quickly and he backs up his words from prior press interviews on how he'd run the club.

I will fully support him and hope he does amazing. Just hope the Glazers somehow don't cling on.
 
Great. They've recruited another grifter to give a lifeline to these bloodsuckers. If these parasites remain, we're done. We'll NEVER win an f-ing thing until we scrub these scum from the club. Any legit fan knows that and as hard as it would be, we need to strike the team. I haven't (and won't) spent a cent on gear or swag. Boycott the games. Drop seasons tickets and subscriptions. Shit needs to start getting real. Walk away.
 
The Hilton said:
No apology necessary, you've been debating in good faith and without the condescending tone that is rife across this forum.

I'd love for INEOS to be able to afford it within the next few years, I just don't see how it would be possible. If they could get the money together to meet the valuation within a few years, they'd be able to get a loan and have full control immediately.
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You have kinda changed my mind, however, assuming Ineos can come up with the funds in the next 3 or so years wouldn't the current bid structure be preferable over taking out a loan that would have interest?
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
They're 2nd in the league, unbeaten and beat PSG to be fair.
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Mate their 8 games in and have won 4/8….United are going through their worst ever start and are 4/8 for comparison

They’ve been at Nice for 4 years and are constantly finishing mid table, even if they’re not expected to compete with PSG and their billions it’s pathetic that they can’t even get a Europa spot from France, absolutely laughable
 
bdspeedy said:
Great. They've recruited another grifter to give a lifeline to these bloodsuckers. If these parasites remain, we're done. We'll NEVER win an f-ing thing until we scrub these scum from the club. Any legit fan knows that and as hard as it would be, we need to strike the team. I haven't (and won't) spent a cent on gear or swag. Boycott the games. Drop seasons tickets and subscriptions. Shit needs to start getting real. Walk away.
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Have you not been following this thread? Tons of United fans tossing themselves off over the Glazers staying and teaming up with Del Boy. Thought most of us hated these feckers but apparently not.
 
The Hilton said:
Unfortunately most of your point is based on hopeful speculation. I'd love it to be the case, but there's little reason to expect it to be so.

Sir James Arthur Ratcliffe FIChemE/INEOS buying 25% is nothing more than them handing over money to the owners of those shares in exchange for said shares. For the club to see that money, it would require those previous owners of the shares to inject it in to the club. I think we can agree that's an extremely unlikely scenario. So we'd have to hope that the Glazers agree to count any investment from INEOS against their valuation, which seems pretty unlikely given they aren't a united front, and a couple of them clearly don't want to make a sale any easier.

I hope that there is a clear plan to how he can own it all later, but I really doubt it, as if he could afford to meet the Glazers' valuation then he would have done so.
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I am speculating yes, because we don't have information either or.

If glazers are just paid a sum straight up then of course they will not put that back in the club.

But since this is a deal where they need to offer similar to the public shareholders to not be sued, then it's possible it may be structured in a way that says i.e. "The public valuation of the club is $3.2B right now based on the NYSE. We will buy 25% of the club for $8-900M, but to get Glazers to agree to sell right now an additional $600M is part of the price, but handled as a cash injection in the club, solving the liquidity issues, while increasing the value of the Glazers remaining shares (and also the ones that Ineos buys)".

You could say that why would the NYSE people agree to sell their shares if the value might go up? They don't have to, but they legally have to be offered to. If not enough is willing to sell for Ineos to get 12.5% from the stock market then I'm certain that there are provisions that the Glazers will sell additional shares up to the total 25%.


There are lots of ifs and buts and many factors we are not privy to. All I'm saying is that there is no way someone is buying 25% of the club at this point without making additional moves to protect that investment and increase chances that it pays off in the longer run (either through increased value of existing shares or a road to full control).
 
Isn’t there a huge hole in this deal?
2bln to the Glazers?

Where’s the investment ? What cash are they promising to buy into? What is it they are doing or is this just 2bln for the Glazers for just 25% and sporting control?!

I’m struggling to understand this deal.
 
Castia said:
I keep hearing Paul Mitchell getting mentions like he’s some sort of football god, hasn't his stock completely fallen off a cliff in recent years? Typical United about 5 years behind the current trend
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at least it's someone who has experience in the position, upgrade over who is currently running things.
 
United will be challenging Liverpool for that 30 year gap without winning the league.

Without a full sale, nothing changes. SJ or someone else, you can only start again with a full sale.

The future looks bleak. An aging squad, a manager constantly battling things in-house, a rotting stadium, an average training facility, FFP restrictions, masses of debt, unqualified individuals across the entire hierarchy....what a time to be a United fan!
 
Yay to not becoming an oil state, Hamas-backing club!! Will we be on the fast track to immediate success? Possibly not. Will we still resemble the club we have all loved and want to continue loving? Yes.
 
Rojofiam said:
I wonder if they'll be laughing when they realize United has just become as rich as those 2 clubs combined with an owner that's likely going to burn hundreds of millions of pounds just to get his boyhood club back to the top of English and European football once again.
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Ok let’s play devils advocate here;

Jimmy the Rat is worth $20 billion however most of that wealth is tied up in asset value shares for INEOS where he owns over 60%. He is not liquid rich, he doesn’t have £20 billion in his back pocket!

He’s done a deal which he’s clearly very talented at, it’s the second time he’s outmanoeuvred Qatar and your see I mentioned that way back. He can’t do anything until he buys the 26% he needs to be the major decision maker, his pr machine is quickly stating he’ll own 51% in 3 years moving towards full 100% ownership in 6-7 years.

What can he effectively do in the next 3 years?

1. He can’t Clear the debt because he’s not obliged to as he’s not the majority shareholder therefore the debt continues and the club is strangled by ever rising interest rates, The Glazers will control the way the club is run on a day to day basis for the next three years so 2024-2027. They will be severely hampered by new FSP and FFP rules, it only takes 2 out of those 3 years that we don’t qualify for CL and the value of the club diminishes out of sight?

2. His £1.5 billion for 25% of the club is purely a transaction of cash for shares but he’ll maybe use clever lawyers to make sure that he has the option to buy the remaining percentage of club but there is still no guarantee, the Glazers could agree to sell their remaining controlling shares to the highest bidder in 3 years if they really want with the new owners just paying a move a side fee to Ratcliffe.

3. So we will now be looking at cheap
Loan deals for more average players In January 2024, club will have no real cash to do anything this winter or summer, watch the true fire sale now in the next two transfer windows, United are having a genuine January Sale starting with
Jadon Sancho URP(United Retail Price) £73m now slashed by 70% to Jan Sale £22m we will have the red point of sale all over the club to sell off 8-9 players.


4. INEOS can arrange a loan for refurbishing the stadium since the Glazers can’t get credit, they can charge a small handling fee on that as the club once again lines the pockets of yet another parasite.

5. What he can do is maybe influence who should be employed within the football structure, he might employ Paul Mitchell but that creates even more issues who is Mitchell’s boss, Ratcliffe or Joel Glazer ?

6. He’s probably not even put a clause in the contract to say that when he transfers money to the Glazers for their shares that £90m must be paid in the next three years to alleviate FFP constraints.


For all those fans thinking this a wonderful deal for the club, think again, we do need to hear what INEOS have to say about how they see their investment developing and what influence they will have if any in the day to day running of the club.
 
I think I have enjoyed United through enough ups and downs to last a lifetime. At the end of the day, supporting United is fun. You either cheer or complain. I am fine supporting it as a club which is on the slide but fighting against it rather than be morally conflicted if the owners are dubious. Come on United!
 
Castia said:
Mate their 8 games in and have won 4/8….United are going through their worst ever start and are 4/8 for comparison

They’ve been at Nice for 4 years and are constantly finishing mid table, even if they’re not expected to compete with PSG and their billions it’s pathetic that they can’t even get a Europa spot from France, absolutely laughable
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Indeed. If anything they have become worse under their ownership.
 
A ‘100 day review’ on a deal as complex as this doesn’t sound unreasonable. I take it as a positive. It means that we are dealing with serious people who want to formulate an effective and deliverable plan. Above all, it means that a bit of stability is on the horizon. It is no coincidence that our most successful periods have also been when we have had stability at all levels of the club. The Jassim bid failure is disappointing insofar as the ‘quick fix’ has gone, but maybe in the long term, a staged takeover is more sustainable.
 
groovyalbert said:
Yay to not becoming an oil state, Hamas-backing club!! Will we be on the fast track to immediate success? Possibly not. Will we still resemble the club we have all loved and want to continue loving? Yes.
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We'll be fine, we've been run by accountants for years. It'll be like before 2005 again, almost can't believe it. Now we just need to find another Fergie :drool:
 
Makes me sick to think Richard Arnold has been popping the champagne corks tonight, celebrating keeping his job with this news.

He's going nowhere.
 
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