Club Sale | It’s done!

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Anyone suggested that the Qatar pull out is a negotiation tactic to get the Glazers to stop being greedy?
 
Matriac said:
If Jim and the Glazers have a difference in opinion on what the club is actually worth then a deal like this makes sense. (The following is mainly my thinking.)

The club absolutely needs investment now, so him buying a sizable minority share, with provisions of sporting control, and I'm certain that any further possible investment will have provisions that Ineos investment increases the value of the club, thus that should be offset in the final purchase price later. Or some sort of arrangement like that.

But back to the difference in opinion of total value. Glazers believe the club will be worth more than it currently is in 2-3 years if certain things pan out (some sort of super champions league with saudi teams, some catalyst that makes the sport much more popular in the US or whatever). They don't want to sell it all now cause they think they're right around the corner from a bigger payday.

Jim doesn't agree with them that the value will increase as much as they think, so he isn't willing to pay their premium price now. But he does want to own the club, and is willing to buy a stake that will let him get control of what matters to him, control of sporting decisions and a vehicle for further control through investments. Then in a few years they'll see who is right, if Glazers are right then Ineos will need to pay more than planned to own everything. If Jim is right then they pay closer to the valuation he thought it would be.

But ultimately the club is better off due to some investment likely happening now. It's a happy middle of the road solution where hopefully the short term problems are taken care of, while long term estimations can play out.
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I can assure no major investments will be made. The debt is still there, there are no plans for a new stadium or investment for Old Trafford, nor any training grounds of facilities.

That cnut of Radcliffe just gave the Glazers a lifeline. Things will continue just as they've been for the last 10 years.

It will only get worse as there's more competition in the premier league. Our way out of this situation was Qatar that stupid fecking cnut of Radcliffe gave the Glazers the chance of turning them down.
 
Garethw said:
I’ve been pro Qatar purely because they were looking to pay off the debt.
You pay that debt off and the club can self sustain itself without the need for sugar daddy injection.


That’s my worry too mate. I was pro Qatar because they were going to remove all of our debt. A debt free Manchester United can financially compete with any club on earth.

Factor in a state of the art stadium and training ground and we would have been financially secure without the need for sugar daddy cash injections.

I don’t see anything changing under Ineos and that’s assuming they even obtain 100% of the club. Personally I don’t believe they will.

It’s a fecking shit show. I’d personally rather see the whole thing fall through and in a year or two a buyer come forward that can genuinely afford the club.
feck the Glazers.
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My feelings are pretty similar. Not really being pro-Qatar, but it definitely seemed like the best option (given the paucity of options) for the future of the club as the debt would disappear and we'd have a cash injection to catch up with our aging facilities.

Having said that, I'd be perfectly happy with INEOS as an owner who put in nothing, as long as they took nothing out and allowed us to spend our money on clearing the debt, and then investing in infrastructure. It would take longer to catch up, but at least we'd be on the right track.

What we seem to be getting instead is the Glazers getting paid handsomely by INEOS, and continuing to suck us dry. I just can't see how there's a road to INEOS taking over given that, if they could afford to, they would be doing so already.
 
The Glazers don't have any money. What are they still looking for investment? This is like co-owning a car when you can't afford gas. Worse still, who even agrees to such a problematic arrangement? A partial takeover could even trigger serious fricition when it's time to carve the boundaries of decisions
 
At the very beggining of this process, there was some consensus that a succesful scenario would involve either clearing the debt and/or investments in infrastructure (particularly OT) and/or heavy investments on the main squad. The scenario the media is describing so far solves neither.

What we see being reported, for better or for worse, is kicking the can down the road. For better if you think that it prevents the state ownership/sportswashing issue, for worse if you think that it prevents the club from recapturing its former success.

For me, as I said before, this is the Glazers fecking up their fecking off.
 
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You know.. After a few drinks and reflecting on the whole thing, guys, what will be will be. We can't change it, and things will go on. Might be the beer speaking but, its not what I wanted, but this is how things are.
 
littlepeasoup said:
What investment though? Surely that entire 25% stake will go straight into the Glazers pockets?
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Well they will be buying 12.5% off the Glazers and 12.5% off the stock market. (To prevent getting sued). There might be an agreement that to buy Glazers shares with similar (or even different/stronger?) voting power as their B shares then part of the purchase sum is investment in the club.

But what I'm saying is I think it's very likely that after they acquire a 25% stake they will make further investment in the club to cover the clubs short term needs. Why would they do this if this also benefits the remaining 75% ownership? I'm certain they will make a deal where their x investment increases the value of the glazers share, so when Ineos intend to acquire the glazers remaining shares at a later stage then the clubs value increase from the investment is offset from the price they pay the glazers.

Because it makes zero sense to pay a lot of money to acquire 25% of a club that is struggling, and then do nothing further to change that predicament.
 
Lost all hope for this club. Never felt as down as this in any of the ten years. We're completely feck. Not interested in watching games anymore just lost all motivation.
 
Matriac said:
If Jim and the Glazers have a difference in opinion on what the club is actually worth then a deal like this makes sense. (The following is mainly my thinking.)

The club absolutely needs investment now, so him buying a sizable minority share, with provisions of sporting control, and I'm certain that any further possible investment will have provisions that Ineos investment increases the value of the club, thus that should be offset in the final purchase price later. Or some sort of arrangement like that.

But back to the difference in opinion of total value. Glazers believe the club will be worth more than it currently is in 2-3 years if certain things pan out (some sort of super champions league with saudi teams, some catalyst that makes the sport much more popular in the US or whatever). They don't want to sell it all now cause they think they're right around the corner from a bigger payday.

Jim doesn't agree with them that the value will increase as much as they think, so he isn't willing to pay their premium price now. But he does want to own the club, and is willing to buy a stake that will let him get control of what matters to him, control of sporting decisions and a vehicle for further control through investments. Then in a few years they'll see who is right, if Glazers are right then Ineos will need to pay more than planned to own everything. If Jim is right then they pay closer to the valuation he thought it would be.

But ultimately the club is better off due to some investment likely happening now. It's a happy middle of the road solution where hopefully the short term problems are taken care of, while long term estimations can play out.
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This isn't an investment in the club though, unless you're expecting the Glazers to pump the money they'll be paid back into the club? Would be lovely if it happened, but given past performance it's a completely unreasonable expectation. This isn't a happy middle of the road solution, it's kicking the can down the road. INEOS would have to invest directly, separately from this purchase, and that would be against their interest as it would increase the Glazers' valuation which they already aren't able to meet.

If there is a provision that INEOS investment in the club counts towards a future purchase then that would be good, as without it's against their interest to invest any more until the Glazers are gone. How workable that is I don't know. Without it though, it's just more of the same for the club, at least until things go wrong badly enough for the Glazers to lower their valuation.
 
Brownie85 said:
You know.. After a few drinks and reflecting on the whole thing, guys, what will be will be. We can't change it, and things will go on. Might be the beer speaking but, its not what I wanted, but this is how things are.
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That’s the spirit till the comedown.
 
Why are they still clinging on? The dividends aren't huge and both bidders valued the club at approx 6b
 
Yorke to Cole said:
I wanted to personally thank you for your contributions and explaining financial matters over the last x months. Although, this is not the clean break or result needed to get this club back to where it belongs in a shorter term basis.

Will you stick around for the next few weeks to see how things develop?
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Yes no issues I’ll always support the club irrespective of who owns the club, I was never a Qatar In or Sir Jim in, I was always a 100% Glazers out, but when Ratcliffe agree to keep the Glazers, for me that was the last straw giving them control and the investment they need by taking only 25%.

I said they were prepared to pay £7-7.3 billion and now it looks like with all their investment, settling debt and buying future A class shares they even bid £5.8-6 billion for the Glazers shares who now wanted £6.4 billion if believe what’s leaking on the Twitter-verse, plus an £1.3-1.5 billion for the ‘A class shares’ and another £1.2 billion in investment for stadium, squad etc, the bid from Qatar seems to be in excess of £7 billion ?
 
Adebisi's Hat said:
I am willing to listen to the Jimsters statement before loosing my sh!t. If there is a definite timelines to getting rid of the goblins that can only be positive. Anything else will be just mugging off the fans.
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Same, it doesn’t feel good to be honest, I need to hear what he has to say but man! It’s gonna have to be fecking good and if I’m honest there’s something I’m not sure about this guy (Ratcliffe)
 
The Hilton said:
Let's assume for a second that he can afford it (although I seriously doubt it, most of his worth is tied up in his ownership of INEOS) - as you said he wasn't willing to spend enough to match the Glazers valuation, so what's going to change? If their valuation goes down, then it's almost certainly terrible news for the club, as something would have to have gone wrong. If it doesn't go down then it's the same amount he wasn't willing to pay before, what could change to make him willing this time around?
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He is clearly wealthy enough to buy the club. Tbh I don't know why he changed the structure of the bid. I've seen some people suggest they have a liquidity issue which might explain it. Or there's the possibility that the Glazers never wanted a full sale right away.
 
Rood said:
Very difficult to get excited about a minority stake deal but if it brings any kind of change then I suppose it's better than nothing

Big thing for me is, where is the money going to come from for a stadium refurb ?
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The INEOS offer is not for profit, so if you consider they will never take dividends out and you think how much the Glazers have taken out. ( over a billion) then you can see the club will make enough to start making changes to facilities and the stadium.

The other positive is they are high on sports science, which is a department we have fallen so far behind on. So they will be eager to make those type of changes quickly.

Just to say I wanted a clean break as well. But like yourself and I as I write this post (there are reports from various outlets stating that 92 Foundation did not endear themselves to Raine and the process very well) had the feeling it was not going in the direction of a full sale.

If this goes through ineos will be the highest shareholder against the 6.

Those 6 siblings are divided, if he can unite himself with siblings that want to sell, he knows he is in the box seat.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Lost all hope for this club. Never felt as down as this in any of the ten years. We're completely feck. Not interested in watching games anymore just lost all motivation.
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It’s a real kick in the bollocks. I feel your pain mate.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Why are they still clinging on? The dividends aren't huge and both bidders valued the club at approx 6b
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I also can’t understand this. The dividends aren’t huge and we are dropping down in our standings as top dogs by year. So our valuation isn’t rocketing. Not to mention we are out of cash and a billion in debt now with outdated training facilities and a stadium revamp pending. Even after all that, they are still getting 6billion, the biggest deal in sports history which is also way more than our valuation right now. And these morons are still holding on to us. Why? Just why?
 
Woziak said:
Yes no issues I’ll always support the club irrespective of who owns the club, I was never a Qatar In or Sir Jim in, I was always a 100% Glazers out, but when Ratcliffe agree to keep the Glazers, for me that was the last straw giving them control and the investment they need by taking only 25%.

I said they were prepared to pay £7-7.3 billion and now it looks like with all their investment, settling debt and buying future A class shares they even bid £5.8-6 billion for the Glazers shares who now wanted £6.4 billion if believe what’s leaking on the Twitter-verse, plus an £1.3-1.5 billion for the ‘A class shares’ and another £1.2 billion in investment for stadium, squad etc, the bid from Qatar seems to be in excess of £7 billion ?
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So, it seems they made that 6th offer after all I wonder if Beckham knew about it which is why he spoke out this week. Maybe, he thought this was going to be it.
 
The Hilton said:
This isn't an investment in the club though, unless you're expecting the Glazers to pump the money they'll be paid back into the club? Would be lovely if it happened, but given past performance it's a completely unreasonable expectation. This isn't a happy middle of the road solution, it's kicking the can down the road. INEOS would have to invest directly, separately from this purchase, and that would be against their interest as it would increase the Glazers' valuation which they already aren't able to meet.

If there is a provision that INEOS investment in the club counts towards a future purchase then that would be good, as without it's against their interest to invest any more until the Glazers are gone. How workable that is I don't know. Without it though, it's just more of the same for the club, at least until things go wrong badly enough for the Glazers to lower their valuation.
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But it can't be a kicking a can down the road thing? Because if all that happens is that some shares are moved around then that solves none of the problems that made the glazers start this process a year ago. Some investment in the club has to happen. To at least maintain the stadium/training facilities, if not fully refurbish. And to hopefully also ease our FFP predicament.

Someone just buying shares won't change the clubs predicament/needs. So likely either the purchase is dependent on that Ineos invests a certain sum in the club for the right of buying shares off the Glazers, or there is another deal in place that further investment in the club by Ineos will count towards the purchase price at a later stage.

Because nothing makes sense about just buying 12.5% off the Glazers and 12.5% off the stock market with nothing else changing. Why would Ineos buy those shares? Maybe if they were an investment firm betting that the Glazers would increase the value of the club in the coming years (likely by investment), meaning that Ineos could sell again with profit down the road. But that doesn't seem to be Ineos' goal here, they (Jim) wants to own and control the club.

Thus he absolutely will require a clear plan to how he can own all of it later, because if not then this is a bad investment for him, and there's no need to buy just the 25% now, since that alone won't guarantee control, nor help increase the value of the company unless someone invests directly.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Lost all hope for this club. Never felt as down as this in any of the ten years. We're completely feck. Not interested in watching games anymore just lost all motivation.
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With you. Its as if we made some faustian pact in 1992 and the debt has been called in since SAF left. I don't have the ability to not care but I wish I did at this stage.
 
kaku06 said:
I also can’t understand this. The dividends aren’t huge and we are dropping down in our standings as top dogs by year. So our valuation isn’t rocketing. Not to mention we are out of cash and a billion in debt now with outdated training facilities and a stadium revamp pending. Even after all that, they are still getting 6billion, the biggest deal in sports history which is also way more than our valuation right now. And these morons are still holding on to us. Why? Just why?
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Because it's an asset that has brought them a lot of wealth, continues to do so and they think there is more to come. They may not be right, but from their money oriented angle the cash cow isn't completely barren yet, so they keep squeezing. If you look at us as more of a marketing / entertainment / tv rights asset than a sports club it makes more sense. As fans we think success is the driver of all, but they are more likely thinking differently. The superleague and financial forecasts from it likely got them harder than hard things, and those stiffies haven't gone fully yet.
 
kaku06 said:
I also can’t understand this. The dividends aren’t huge and we are dropping down in our standings as top dogs by year. So our valuation isn’t rocketing. Not to mention we are out of cash and a billion in debt now with outdated training facilities and a stadium revamp pending. Even after all that, they are still getting 6billion, the biggest deal in sports history which is also way more than our valuation right now. And these morons are still holding on to us. Why? Just why?
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May be vanity on their part.
 
It’s going to be a long, long, long time before this club is back at the top table again and consistently winning titles. Unfortunately I would strongly predict it won’t be in my lifetime now.
 
What’s with the widespread doom mongering in here? Do you all know something I don’t?
 
SAFMUTD said:
Lost all hope for this club. Never felt as down as this in any of the ten years. We're completely feck. Not interested in watching games anymore just lost all motivation.
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I am with you. Just felt these leeches will bring down the club further now.
 
Yorke to Cole said:
So, it seems they made that 6th offer after all I wonder if Beckham knew about it which is why he spoke out this week. Maybe, he thought this was going to be it.
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Again we don’t really know what’s been offered, but it’s amazing how quickly the dithering Goblins apparently accepted the 25% minority bid with them staying in charge, this was clearly what they wanted all along the process!
 
Maybe Jimmy is playing the slow game. First he needs to have the more ownership than the Glazers combined. Fingers crossed.
 
Thom Merrilin said:
He is clearly wealthy enough to buy the club. Tbh I don't know why he changed the structure of the bid. I've seen some people suggest they have a liquidity issue which might explain it. Or there's the possibility that the Glazers never wanted a full sale right away.
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He's wealthy enough if he sells his controlling stake in INEOS, which would be economically suicidal for him.

Short of that, he clearly isn't. He never had a bid for full ownership accepted, he changed the structure to find an amount he could afford that the Glazers would accept.
 
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