Looking forward to tomorrows head feck. Bonus being that it's also Friday so increased chance of emotional breakdowns to go with the roller coaster of chaos.
Night everyone.
Night everyone.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Its a 50/50 proposition between two parties, so who ever ends up winning, it won't be as if it was ever a sure thing. Otherwise the process wouldn't haven taken as long as it has.
Indeed, they do there because there is a demand there, not because they are promised riches or something. The poor working conditions are made much worse by the extreme weather.
This is the Ben Jacobs and as much as people don't rate him, I don't see how he's been THAT bad on this, considering his peers.
Look at everything that’s happened today. No smoke without fire. Rio. Company. Reuters.
When there's real smoke its usually corroborated by multiple credible sources, as in media outlets with impeccable credentials.
All the academic literature on the topic I’ve tried to read up on suggests that the distinction between public and private spheres in the Qatari economy is extremely blurred to the point of being meaningless, that formal institutions are created and assigned to members of the Royal family for the purpose of strengthening the bonds of rulership and maintaining an illusion of separation between the spheres, and that the ultimate authority who decides on the allocation of important positions and resources is the Emir. Some quotes and links:
"Power in Qatar is distributed in a top-down manner, that is, by the Emir who allocates key government, civil service and private company positions to members of his family and to tribal figures...In Qatar, there is no real separation between the state and the private interests of the ruling family..."Power remains uninstitutionalized. There is no meaningful distinction, either political or legal, between the person of the Emir and the institutions of the state"...the state is not autonomous from private interests. It is difficult to establish the extent of this due to the lack of public information." (p. 40-41 https://www.google.ie/books/edition...itions+to+good+governance&printsec=frontcover)
"the lack of clear boundaries between personal sovereign wealth and public sovereign wealth in the Gulf muddies the neat picture of Gulf SWFs as simple portfolio investment vehicles. The lines between the wealth of the ruling families and the wealth of the nation have long been murky in the GCC states...A further complication is the tendency of some member of Gulf royal families to co-invest personal ‘private funds’ alongside the sovereign wealth fund that they personally oversee. This trend has been most visible in Qatar, where the Emir of Qatar invested in Barclays at the same time as the Qatar investment Authority (QIA)."
"The presence of ruling family members in the private sector makes the distinction between the public and private sectors in Qatar problematic. Since they support each other through public funds and public policies geared towards the best interests of these family members and local merchants, the distinction between public and private funds was also meaningless."
"In Abu Dhabi and Qatar...ruling family members are in control of powerful companies that dominate the economy – either personally or through sovereign wealth funds...Merchant elites are now subservient to the ruling families and are obliged to adapt to the latter’s business priorities...Business interests in Qatar and the UAE are to a large extent protected by the close interconnection of often indistinguishable economic and political elites..."
"despite the existence of government institutions that “formally” appear to separate the rulers’ funds from those of the state, in practice, the lack of transparent budgets and financial reports, render these distinctions artificial. Even the appointment of the director of the Qatari Chamber of Commerce is determined by the ruler who invariably appoints an al-Thani family member. Since the business community is not able to elect its own leader to voice concerns to policy makers, the Chamber of Commerce, in effect, acts more “as [a] government agency than an independent social association”
Such as… Reuters. It’s their exclusive they have sources in far greater places than Matt Law. Time you accepted it. Go on you know you want to.
Now getting back to the Reuters 'news' - it actually means nothing, 'negotiating exclusivity' is not the same as being chosen as a preferred bidder
That kind of news would surely have to be officially announced by the club first
But Reuters is certainly a more solid source than most of the tabloid and Twitter shite that gets posted here so the fact they are reporting on this is s sign that we are getting close to an endgame
That kind of news would surely have to be officially announced by the club first
But Reuters is certainly a more solid source than most of the tabloid and Twitter shite that gets posted here so the fact they are reporting on this is s sign that we are getting close to an endgame
How many of those billionaires have £5-8b to spunk on a vanity project like buying a football club with little or no hope of ever making that money back through the clubs profits?
Why would it have been wrapped up ages ago if it was the state?
It's the Glazers who are dragging it out and with Qatar's vast wealth they can't be seen to be overpaying for such a high profile asset. Otherwise the price will go up on all their other potential deals.
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Correct but it’s obviously moving that way, which is a positive step for the glacial pace that the Glazers seem to adore.
So again, you're assuming that the money Sheikh Jassim is using to buy Manchester United comes from the state, as if there's no other way an Arab can have money or as if there isn't a rich Arab that isn't linked to the state...
Ok let me explain it to you.
A private fund is an entity created to pool money from multiple investors. Your assumption is these investors are the state.
All I'm asking for is proof that these investors are the state. I've been asking for a while now and most people reply with 'maybe if you're not a moron' you'll see.
Again your assumption is based on an opinion that an Arab in the Middle East can't have wealth without being linked to the state and as someone who currently lives in the Middle East, this is simply not true.
So again where is the proof that Sheikh Jassim is getting his money from the state ?
Just because Reuters said it doesn't mean its true. AFP, which is on par with Reuters, put out something that sounded the opposite. Are you not going to believe their story because it doesn't suit your preferred outcome ?
Well done. Interesting reads.
They don't force them, they pay agents in those countries to lie about the salaries and opportunities to entice esp. uneducated and poor people to go work there.
Any wealthy person affiliated with Qatar is going to be linked in some way to the royal family or a state backed entity. There's no other place money comes from in an autocratic regime / absolute monarchy whose sole source of wealth comes out of the ground.
It didn’t sound the opposite though? In fact it doesnt really deny anything
I’ll help you . SJ will take control of the club but it won’t have fully sold until September .
Obviously not proof but it's baked into the AoA that the entity's financial resources can come from state funding.
You haven't answered the question.
Have you any crystal ball Jassim Jassim will cheat? You are just assuming he will cheat because his fellow countrymen have cheated. It's like saying I won't work for Asians or gipsies because they don't pay.
Compempetive integrity should be written in law by footballing powers. Again we don't know if Jassim takes over United he will cheat similar to PSG or City. I never said it was bigotry, I am sure you are intelligent enough to work that out yourself. Wait till we have evidence and I will join you in condemning any misdeeds carried out the by owners.
Tar and brush are what I call this line of thinking.
It should corroborate it, which it doesn't. In fact, it sounds more in sync with other outlets suggesting SJ is still in the dark about all of this.
I think every billionaire could manage 5 or 8 million tbh
BBC posted an hour ago saying Reuters were wrong.
His family IS the state.
His brother is the Top G of Qatar.
They just don’t have the info they do. They’ll learn in time.
This is not the Qatar State. Big difference. if this has happened or happens the blame goes to the Employer.
FYI, we have unscrupulous employers all over the world.
Nonsense, I'm not assuming that. Plenty of billionaires in the Arab world have vast personal fortunes, I never disputed that, nor do I assume that every billionaire is funded by the state. What I'm saying are two things.
1. This particular man seems to be connected to the state in a myriad of ways that gives the appearance that the bid is likely state-backed in some shape or form.
2. The reason so many favor the Sheik's bid is down to the assumption of that the bid is state-backed and therefore provides a huge economic boon that can't be matched by a regular billionaire.
British press have no idea what’s happening
For Reuters to go with an exclusive plus the rest of the days events there’s been movement
I agree but you can bet none of them will want to keep their mouths shut though.
But who else in World football was available at short notice for the same amount of money!?!
j/k I just always wanted to know what it feels like to type that ridiculous sentence after reading it so many times on here
Poor Jassim, nobody believes his rags to riches story. He is every bit as much of a self made billionaire as Elon Musk.
It's basically a no one wins kinda outcome for me, Qatar with their dodgy history (using those words lightly) but willing to wipe away all debt and improve our infrastructure or Jim Ratcliffe with his keeping the Glazers on for 3 years and taking out loans to buy the club with no promise of wiping the debt or improving the infrastructure and his history owning Nice.
I just want an owner willing to wipe the debt and update our infrastructure, it's realistically all we need in terms of investment, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be what we will end up getting whoever wins.
I just want an owner willing to wipe the debt and update our infrastructure, it's realistically all we need in terms of investment, unfortunately it doesn't seem to be what we will end up getting whoever wins.
Here is an excerpt from a book published by a Qatari academic and critic of the country’s political system, title is “The People Want Reform In Qatar, Too”, and the author is Ali Khalifa Al-Kuwari. The whole thing is worth reading (bearing in mind his criticisms are necessarily mild) but the relevant bit in terms of the discussion here on the transparency (or potential lack thereof) of this deal, is:
“The principal observation agreed on by all those present at the Monday meetings (though known about and commented on prior to this initiative) is the concealment of information connected to public affairs in Qatar and the inability to publish anything related to the decision-making process that lies behind official pronouncements. Indeed, the majority of our speakers and commentators lacked precise information and are unaware of the reasons behind public policy choices and the incentives and justifications for the ruler’s commands.
This ensures the Qatari people exist in a constant state of surprise at the options taken and the decisions made, as though the public policies and life-changing decisions enacted by the government were a private affair that regular citizens had no right to know about, let alone participate in…
…The same approach is found in finance. The estimated national budget is never published in full. Even the current Advisory Council only has the right to examine estimated capital expenditure. The budget’s final account is top secret. No one may look at it. The same applies to the report of the state’s Audit Bureau (itself answerable to the executive), whose powers do not include examining certain incomes and expenditures of public monies because such data does not come under the authority of the Council of Ministers: It is excepted from their authority and any other form of public oversight.
“The principal observation agreed on by all those present at the Monday meetings (though known about and commented on prior to this initiative) is the concealment of information connected to public affairs in Qatar and the inability to publish anything related to the decision-making process that lies behind official pronouncements. Indeed, the majority of our speakers and commentators lacked precise information and are unaware of the reasons behind public policy choices and the incentives and justifications for the ruler’s commands.
This ensures the Qatari people exist in a constant state of surprise at the options taken and the decisions made, as though the public policies and life-changing decisions enacted by the government were a private affair that regular citizens had no right to know about, let alone participate in…
…The same approach is found in finance. The estimated national budget is never published in full. Even the current Advisory Council only has the right to examine estimated capital expenditure. The budget’s final account is top secret. No one may look at it. The same applies to the report of the state’s Audit Bureau (itself answerable to the executive), whose powers do not include examining certain incomes and expenditures of public monies because such data does not come under the authority of the Council of Ministers: It is excepted from their authority and any other form of public oversight.
The same is true of the state’s public reserves, investments made with this money and the results of these operations. Citizens hear about Qatar’s massive international deals but have no idea if these benefit public finances or private interests. The size of the national debt is neither known nor published, nor the scale and composition of debts guaranteed by the state, which are estimated in the tens of billions of dollars. Reports from the International Monetary Fund’s International Institute of Finance indicate that a large part of the income from oil and gas does not appear in the relevant section of the national budget.”
The general population people of Qatar, UAE, Saudi, Quwait and others in that region would likely remove the royals in an instant. The point is our dear elected leaders in the UK and USA are keeping them in power. Fingers should be pointing at the culprits. They are just puppets sitting on the throne at our behest.
Qatar is very likely the dearest and nearest next to the USA for all sorts of reasons to the UK.
Qatar is very likely the dearest and nearest next to the USA for all sorts of reasons to the UK.
That's my solace with this if Jassim wins. As long as he simply funds, allows the football people to do what they need to, give them to and only replace when it's clear they're not getting results then it's all good. We really just need investment in infrastructure and to clear the current debt.
Love how the post by @2cents has gone unnoticed by the demands for proof 
1. I agree with this, he is connected to the state of course he is any billionaire in the world will have some connections to the state or other states it's how the world works. Elon Musk is in Italy right now meeting their pm... There's a difference with having a relationship with the state and being backed by the state however.
2. We don't even need that, It's why I'm not too bothered with whoever wins, if we continue to spend money the way we have over the last 5-6 years it's more than enough, we just need to spend it wisely and have a good system in place.
'Negotiating' towards exclusivity was the original claim. Nothing there that contradicts Reuters or goes against assumption that Glazers will try and leverage prospect of exclusivity to bring out counter-offer from SJR until they're forced to actually sign the thing
Again, talk about someone essentially 'funded by the state' in the so-called 'free' Western context, extracting from it (and by extension taxpayers) for mixed rewards. Basically every major org is intertwined with the state,- except we also used to have stronger worker negotiation boards - whether old fashioned corporatist, ordolib or full-throttle neolib, to largely determine its laws, receive bail-outs or form of indemnity, preferential contracts, PPPs, former PMs to sit on their boards and lobbying councils, to the point where British politics in particular barely functions, US only gets by because of strong state system and relative strength of dollar as currency of last resort and the rest ...and people here are discounting Qatar businesses because they're too close to the state.
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