Shhhh. Don’t point out the truth. You might be labeled as a Qatari shill or worse(homophobe, misogynist, etc).
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Where do you think the Qatar money will come from? It’s not going to be gifted. Ineos will buy the club with in-house finance, Qatar will buy the club with “investor” finance (state or “interest free” loans from others if we go off what was said many years ago).
I would expect the Qatari bid to actually want more of a return from the deal, as Jassim’s father openly views this as an investment that he doesn’t particularly like. I suspect this will take the form of using the land around the club, plus other deals within the city or with existing partners. In all likelihood it won’t be problematic but if the City piss them off cor whatever reason do we end up with horse cum saga part two.
I think from the two Ineos/Ratcliffe are more likely to see this as an emotional investment, if he wanted to make money there are far better options than us to use his billions on, problem comes there with his age and the potential he “hangs on” too long when it’s time for him to give it up.
Well said.
It isn't "reality" that a succesful INEOS bid would see us "likely" paying more than we currently do in repayments to cover the cost. That's just something people whose minds have been addled by the aforementioned echo-chamber have convinced themselves of by listening to other equally clueless people.
The actual reality is that companies regularly purchase assets through financing without then expecting said assets to contribute to the repayments, because doing so would hinder their higher value pursuit of asset growth. And with us having zero details on the terms of the financing, let alone what if any portion of the repayments INEOS expect to come from the club, it's ludicrous for anyone to claim it would "likely" be more than current repayments.
So Ratcliffe is basically slowing this down by refusing to give in, instead scraping together whatever loan or hedgefund vultures he can group with just so he can own the club by any means possible? And this is the owner a large section of the fanbase want?
The best thing he can do is throw in the towel and actually do something ambitious with Nice, all while enjoying Chelsea at the bridge. As it stands this is fecking up our pre-season preparations.
The best thing he can do is throw in the towel and actually do something ambitious with Nice, all while enjoying Chelsea at the bridge. As it stands this is fecking up our pre-season preparations.
That's why I don't like the idea of United being bought by QSI and being sugar daddied like nobody business. It's kind of silly because I don't mind it for other clubs but I loved that idea for United, as you put it the romance around it was enticing. I would have the same issue if it was the plan for INEOS.
absolutely. I mastered the moonwalk in celebration
I would be staggered if he pulled out
I’m referring to the part where the poster claims we’ll spend more on debt repayment under Ineos than we do now, based on absolute zero knowledge of what the overall situation would be.
Also, debt is not the same thing, there are many types and many different arrangements. We have no idea what is a proposed so again people are making stuff up or speculating from a weak position
I like the sound of the Qatar debt. Absolutely zero.
Where is Jim raising the 1B+ for the stadium? debts still on the club, glazers here until 2026 before taking another payoff? Anybody wanting this deserve everything we’ll get under Jim.
I have a feeling Qatari bid is preferred but in Manchester United style, they are trying to make the sale without a media outrage from very pro-Radcliffe support.
They are letting the giddy online pro-Jassim support drown out or annoy everyone into submission. Raine have a reputation to protect and Glazer’s lust for money, this combination is draining.
The longer this goes on the harder it will be for the new owners to settle in. We’ve seen some of the opposition on each side evolving to hate. Such feelings don’t just go away overnight and needs some monumental shift or time to heal. As a club that’s been so fractured for so long we don’t have time to shift through these feelings of division.
They are letting the giddy online pro-Jassim support drown out or annoy everyone into submission. Raine have a reputation to protect and Glazer’s lust for money, this combination is draining.
The longer this goes on the harder it will be for the new owners to settle in. We’ve seen some of the opposition on each side evolving to hate. Such feelings don’t just go away overnight and needs some monumental shift or time to heal. As a club that’s been so fractured for so long we don’t have time to shift through these feelings of division.
He probably expects to win. He might be right. We'll hopefully not have too many more weeks and months to wait to find out.
Ineos can not afford emotional investment. Do you even realize that this company is super profit oriented. It is not like they have 5-6 billion put aside. They will have to borrow money from banks to buy United. Also, they will have to exist and operate successfully well after SJR bites the dust.
As for Qatar, Jassim's father can actually see this is a long-term investment and it would be emotional. Owning United is much more prestigious than owning City, Newcastle, PSG or Chelsea. Finally, the Daddy is not silly, he is not going to come out and say that he is loaded so that the leeches get an extra billion from him.
Billions of dollars will be borrowed to buy the club that's already paying interest based on an initial financing agreement.
Who do you think will be footing the repayments exactly?
£200 / day limit at the cash machine. He’s going as fast as he can
You could as well say Qatar have been slowing it down with their 4th and 5th bid which were after the deadline had passed.
If they had made a big enough offer already in the 3rd round then the process may have already been over. This is assuming Glazers want a (full) sale.
I know the bid is already a record breaking bid, but it’s also United who are for sale and not some wee club. It was also clear from the beginning to all the bidders that the Glazers would only sell for insane money.
I would prefer SJ but in fairness to SJR am pretty sure it’s been stated that he will be placing his finance/mortgage on his existing assets.
He seems to be well versed in borrowing, with his company , so I would assume that he is more adept than most even with the massive figures involved.
You can imagine if borrowing was going to be placed on United that would cause all sorts of problems and the finances would need to be scrutinised to the penny by the lenders/underwriters and the valuation would not stack up for the banks.
That said, the agreement/partnership with the Glazers would be an absolute nightmare to negotiate. How would you strike a happy balance with those bloodsuckers?
Did the SJ camp not put out a statement, the opening statement, that they did not want to profit from United and money generated from the club would be returned to the club and community?
Businesses already paying interest on pre-existing financing still regularly purchases assets through further financing. And without expecting that asset to pay for itself. What you seem to think is some impossibility is regular practice.
Claiming that it must be payed for by the club, let alone trying to make a claim as to what the level of repayments would likely be, is sheer unadulterated ignorance on your part.
Where do you think the Qatari money is coming from? Do you think it is a gift? If we believe it’s not state backed There will be investment of some sort, from which a return will be expected, of what we don’t know.
People are really blinded by the prospect of free money, no money is free, there is always a cost.
I mean the Qataris have already offered a reasonable and already inflated fee for a full sale, but the parasites are trying to squeeze every penny. And they're being enabled by Ratcliffe who clearly can't afford the club outright, and is instead dragging this whole saga on with his 50.1/69% or whatever compromised proposal he has, which in turn the Glazers are using as leverage to squeeze more out of Jassim and Co. I don't expect the Qataris to simply blow this whole thing out of the water by dropping £7billion or whatever absurd fee would tempt the Glazers into an immediate agreement, not when they're already overpaying as it is.
Share price continues to steadily rise,however long way from that $30 which Faisal Islam said usually means done
This is an SJR vanity project in my opinion, at some point he will sell Ineos and he owns 66% or whatever. When you add that money to his existing fortune then he has enough to buy the club. Why do people pretend otherwise.
I have never said he couldn't afford it
There’s plenty of bollocks spouted by people of either viewpoint, its tiring challenging because it then spirals into a pit of whataboutism.
If someone insists on telling me that the sky is green, I’m inclined to let them crack on as they’ve already signalled where any ‘debate’ is likely to go.
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Why is $30 the magic number?
That's a good point. People love to point out out we've spent a lot post SAF. The problem was in the post Glazer take over period - we barely anything between 2008 and 2013 due to the high interest repayments of the PKI loans - whereas City could spend freely on David Silva, Aguero etc. Indeed by the time we opened the cheque books under Van Gaal and then Mourinho - City already had players like Kompany, De Bruyne, Sterling, Aguero and David Silva to build from whereas we had no one aside from De Gea.
You could say the Glazer's fault for encumbering us with debt - and that's true - but how is it fair if one club has to pay £70m a year in interest payments (at a time when top transfers went for around £35m) and another can sign as many fake sponsorships as it wants and inject state money to buy whomever? Same with Newcastle - people say 'oh they're spending smartly' - it doesn't matter, it's still access to sponsorships and state money that the rest of the clubs don't have.
At the end of the day both leveraged buyouts and state ownership should be banished from club football - but neither have. The floodgates have opened - and whilst I don't like it we may as well join the degeneracy and accelerate the decline / need for reform in the top level of football.
At the very least I take some solace that at least these oil states will be wasting their money on transfer fees and player salaries - might as well milk as much of these countries while we can.
In what sense?
The nation of Qatar are objectively responsible for more damage to the environment and human rights abuses than Jim Ratcliffe.
Why would you need to repay loans on an asset and not expect the profits of that asset to at least contribute towards the repayment up to the level it's currently proven it can afford to pay
Is not unadulterated ignorance its fecking delusional to think anyone would borrow and be liable for billions, likely hundreds of millions a year in finance costs, to keep the asset like its some extra-marital French whore kept in expensive lingerie, perfume and new players without expecting the revenue generated from that asset to help fund the cost of buying it.
Who the feck do you think is going to pay for it? Do you think Ineos are going to finance their debt AND ours and we'll just be building new stadiums and filling the team bath with cash so after games Ten Hag can jump in like Scrooge Mc-fecking-duck?
Magic Brexit money tree, obviously. He should get his friends from government on the line.
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Wouldn’t Qatar paying the current debt be better than having the debt from two takeovers over our heads?
The value for Qatar seems to be the soft power but it’s hard to argue they’re after a financial return when they’ve already stated they will invest all the money we earn into the 92 foundation.
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So those anti Qatar want to club to be run more into debt by the clown of SJR?
Qatar spent $220 billion hosting the World Cup purely as a flex. Does anyone really believe they will blink at buying us.
How much have city had to spend servicing debts? Newcastle? PSG?
I agree. How much money do you need, even for for the generations that follow.
What could give a person greater pride that to restore pride to the community from which he came.
Personally, I am sure if his company was even three years further down the line he, personally, would probably be worth another 5-10 billion.
The issue for me is not his intent but that it would take another 3/4/5 years to get to a place where we would get to overnight, Glazers out, immediate work on the facilities/squad, the way ETH wants to play his football no more compromising.
Both bidders have their qualities, but I feel I have been waiting long enough, that may be selfish, but that is how I feel. I remember the 80s and the acceptance of never being quite good enough and that is the feeling that has now returned, may be Sir Alex spoilt us too much and we have to take our penance, but football is supposed to be our escape?
More binary than saying if you don't lose some emotional connection to United if Qatar win you don't care about human rights?
Yet again you're making things up. We can stick to the facts and still disagree.
I said if it didn't impact in some way. Which is quite a chasm. If you care and it has absolutely no impact there is a disconnect.
You're tedious, instead of point scoring why don't you constructively explain how you're able to care without it having an impact?
True. We don't know the plan isn't to borrow £4bn and when the banks ask for the first repayment simply pretend we've moved.
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