Club Sale | It’s done!

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Spoony said:
I thought it would've gone down, though. We need a stock market expert...
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Im not an expert but I'm quite sure the rule is - unless you see a big daddy diesel spike in the share price it's all just normal trading noise.
 
Mockney said:
It's very strange to me, considering a HUGE part of the United brand is built on that romance. The narrative of Man United IS the narrative of it's self sufficiency. It's winning European Cups with different teams built out of it's academy, or from young players it bought and developed. It's recovering from setbacks & tragedy with it's own players, it's own graft, it's own mythology....United are not remotely the most successful team in football. We never have been. We're not even the most successful English club in Europe. The reason we're so beloved (and so supported) is in huge part thanks to this romantic image of the club... The irony that a lot of the supporters who support us because of this image, are more than happy to tear it down for the (vague) promise of unlimited success is so utterly depressing to me. City's treble was entirely without romance, without narrative, and yet people still looked at it and went "yeah, I wanna sell our soul for that! Gimmie gimme! And what's more I'm gonna celebrate it, and laugh in the face of anyone put off by it, because I get what I want!"

I will remain a United fan, but I will simply care less, in much the same way I care less now than I did as an obsessed 14 year old who used to cut the heads of top players Panini stickers and stick them onto duplicates of our players. Football will remain a part of my life, just a slightly less joyful part. A part I take less pleasure and certainly less pride in, as that will simply ebb away a bit into other things.... It's not a massive deal, but it's sad nonetheless. And the kind of people who consider that something to crow over, I will simply never understand.
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Agreed. I could be wrong, of course, but it's possible a lot of the younger supporters (which, admittedly, includes people around my age, 44) grew up supporting a different United and for different reasons. We were successful, we were dominant, we were playing fun football, and that's what they want to see again. The rest, like the romance and heritage, speaks to them less.
 
Kaos said:
I mean the Qataris have already offered a reasonable and already inflated fee for a full sale, but the parasites are trying to squeeze every penny. And they're being enabled by Ratcliffe who clearly can't afford the club outright, and is instead dragging this whole saga on with his 50.1/69% or whatever compromised proposal he has, which in turn the Glazers are using as leverage to squeeze more out of Jassim and Co. I don't expect the Qataris to simply blow this whole thing out of the water by dropping £7billion or whatever absurd fee would tempt the Glazers into an immediate agreement, not when they're already overpaying as it is.
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Even the Glazers haven’t asked for £ 7 billion. But they were never going to accept less than 5.2-5.5 billion, with or without SJR’s bids.
I also think the Qataris made a mistake by including debt payments and infrastructure investments in their bid. That PR even started before the 1st bids were in. Latest from that moment it was always clear to the Glazers that Jassim has more money (for which btw the source is still not clear, will he borrow it, does he have it, his dad, whose money will it exactly be, …).
So Glazers would always want more.
We just don’t know why the delay is there. Maybe the Glazers are currently checking on the source of the money. Not because they care, but because they want to be sure the deal will be approved by the PL.
 
united_99 said:
Even the Glazers haven’t asked for £ 7 billion. But they were never going to accept less than 5.2-5.5 billion, with or without SJR’s bids.
I also think the Qataris made a mistake by including debt payments and infrastructure investments in their bid. That PR even started before the 1st bids were in. Latest from that moment it was always clear to the Glazers that Jassim has more money (for which btw the source is still not clear, will he borrow it, does he have it, his dad, whose money will it exactly be, …).
So Glazers would always want more.
We just don’t know why the delay is there. Maybe the Glazers are currently checking on the source of the money. Not because they care, but because they want to be sure the deal will be approved by the PL.
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Including existing debt in the valuation is the most basic of basic finance. Read up on Enterprise value.
 
Spoony said:
Anyone else think yesterday's tweet was intentionally misleading? I don't think it's a done deal, and I'd be surprised if Al Watan's chief editor was such a sucker. I've no idea why they'd do this but I do get the feeling all sides have been using social media to pressurise each other. We've had a few weeks of Ratcliffe and it's been Qatar this week. It always seems to be reflected in the share price.
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I think this is just wish full thinking. I think just a false rumour got out, and some one shot it down.
 
Spoony said:
I thought it would've gone down, though. We need a stock market expert...
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Hardly an expert but I'm in the finance sector and I work with traders daily. I did think it would drop a bit but it will hold a decent price until some positive about Jim being in the lead drops.

The stocks traded since yesterday are not by what I would consider experts.

I did find the fascination with the stock price on here to be odd, traders know as much as we do in regards to this sale.
 
Rightnr said:
Including existing debt in the valuation is the most basic of basic finance. Read up on Enterprise value.
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It’s completely irrelevant for the bidding process. Glazers know the debt. They don’t care if the new owners will clear it or not.
 
just noticed a bottle of hand sanitiser on my kitchen windowsill that was made by ineos. no prizes for guessing that it now finds itself in the kitchen bin.
 
swooshboy said:
Do you?
"Any piece of clothing from Asia"...

I suggest you do your due diligence. Not sure how you can suggest that any item of clothing made in Asia comes at the expense of human rights??
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The same way as you are suggesting that every middle east person is a human rights offender.
 
united_99 said:
Even the Glazers haven’t asked for £ 7 billion. But they were never going to accept less than 5.2-5.5 billion, with or without SJR’s bids.
I also think the Qataris made a mistake by including debt payments and infrastructure investments in their bid. That PR even started before the 1st bids were in. Latest from that moment it was always clear to the Glazers that Jassim has more money (for which btw the source is still not clear, will he borrow it, does he have it, his dad, whose money will it exactly be, …).
So Glazers would always want more.
We just don’t know why the delay is there. Maybe the Glazers are currently checking on the source of the money. Not because they care, but because they want to be sure the deal will be approved by the PL.
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Inclusion of debt in the valuation is standard. That would be the case for Jimmy Rat's bids as well. The statements about immediately clearing the debt and the pledged investment probably did more good than harm from the Qatari perspective, as the public support is invaluable when the tradeoff is simply dealing with the Glazers trying to squeeze more money out of them.
 
united_99 said:
It’s completely irrelevant for the bidding process. Glazers know the debt. They don’t care if the new owners will clear it or not.
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Honestly, you clearly haven't got a scooby on this topic, so I'm not sure why you're so against some insight. I'm no investment banker but EV is a standard valuation method and Ratcliffe would have also included the debt in his offer.

The bit about paying the debt off is just clarification from the Qatar side for transparency and to get the fanbase onside.
 
putzmcgee123 said:
Inclusion of debt in the valuation is standard. That would be the case for Jimmy Rat's bids as well. The statements about immediately clearing the debt and the pledged investment probably did more good than harm from the Qatari perspective, as the public support is invaluable when the tradeoff is simply dealing with the Glazers trying to squeeze more money out of them.
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It definitely didn’t do more good than harm. Glazers will be wanting even more money because of that (you know part of the money which is allegedly there to clear the debt and invest in infrastructure).
 
Mockney said:
Then I don’t have much of an issue with that. As I’ve said, there’s a big difference between accepting it & celebrating it.

Of course not all the people who want Qatar are the childish transfer muppet dregs of the fanbase…. But all the childish transfer muppet dregs of the fanbase want Qatar.

No one’s putting INEOS flags in their social media bios is my point
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Fair enough
 
The deal's been delayed because broke Jimmy Brexit Glazer has to visit all the banks to get enough loans cobbled together to pay for the first lot of shares. He made it to Barclays and Santander but then his knock off Land Rover broke down and he hadn't renewed his AA subscription, so he's waiting for Dave Brailsford to cycle over on a tandem and pick him up.
 
For those who suggest that debt is "crippling" this club, why are billions traded in bond markets every day? Why do these supposedly financially sophisticated corporations keep on issuing debt? Are they "crippled" by such debt?
 
Rightnr said:
Honestly, you clearly haven't got a scooby on this topic, so I'm not sure why you're so against some insight. I'm no investment banker but EV is a standard valuation method and Ratcliffe would have also included the debt in his offer.

The bit about paying the debt off is just clarification from the Qatar side for transparency and to get the fanbase onside.
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No one is talking about EV here.
I am only saying:
SJR hasn’t said that he will be clearing the debt immediately and investing a certain amount in the infrastructure (doesn’t mean he won’t).

Qatar have said this including some numbers, I believe it was 1 billion (doesn’t mean they actually will). But they have with this indicated that they have more money available for Manchester United.
 
Rawls said:
For those who suggest that debt is "crippling" this club, why are billions traded in bond markets every day? Why do these supposedly financially sophisticated corporations keep on issuing debt? Are they "crippled" by such debt?
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I'll answer your misleading question with another question. What's United's credit rating?
 
Mockney said:
Then I don’t have much of an issue with that. As I’ve said, there’s a big difference between accepting it & celebrating it.

Of course not all the people who want Qatar are the childish transfer muppet dregs of the fanbase…. But all the childish transfer muppet dregs of the fanbase want Qatar.

No one’s putting INEOS flags in their social media bios is my point
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Yes.
It is genuinely important to point out that the very worst aspects of our fanbase are actively cheering this on. That should people food for thought.
 
Fanta Stick said:
My wardrobe conscience is clean.

All of my clothes are made by that George fella for ASDA.
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:lol: Underrated

rimaldo said:
just noticed a bottle of hand sanitiser on my kitchen windowsill that was made by ineos. no prizes for guessing that it now finds itself in the kitchen bin.
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Bonus points if you used the last of the INEOS hand gel to lube up a wank for the Jassim takeover…
 
b20times said:
I don't want to be state owned thank you very much. Dirty oil money can stay where it is, we don't want to be associated with sportswashing or human rights abuse.
It's obvious there is something major cropped up for this to be dragging like it is, it is ridiculous. I'd rather Sir Jism takes the reigns.
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Is this a typo for some inside joke?
 
Wumminator said:
Yes.
It is genuinely important to point out that the very worst aspects of our fanbase are actively cheering this on. That should people food for thought.
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I'm the anti-muppet and I also think Qatar as a nation state is loathesome. But I'm fairly relaxed about their inevitable ownership because football is morally bunkrupt anyway.

It doesn't really matter what we think in any case. The idea that the fans in any way own the club except in their heads is just another dumb religious belief. We are at best paying customers. Many of us are not even that.
 
Who are the most reliable sources regarding the club lately ? And don’t say indykaila or Donald trump ye bastards.
 
glazed said:
I'm the anti-muppet and I also think Qatar as a nation state is loathesome. But I'm fairly relaxed about their inevitable ownership because football is morally bunkrupt anyway.

It doesn't really matter what we think in any case. The idea that the fans in any way own the club except in their heads is just another dumb religious belief. We are at best paying customers. Many of us are not even that.
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I thought that nobody could top my level of cynicism but you've come close. This isn't a criticism, more a sneaking admiration. It didn't feel like this in the 60s through the early noughties but the sea change that happened - not just with the Glazers but other clubs - consigned the old footballing ways into the dustbin of history.
 
Moriarty said:
I thought that nobody could top my level of cynicism but you've come close. This isn't a criticism, more a sneaking admiration. It didn't feel like this in the 60s through the early noughties but the sea change that happened - not just with the Glazers but other clubs - consigned the old footballing ways into the dustbin of history.
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A cynic is just what a fool calls a realist, don't you find?
 
Rawls said:
For those who suggest that debt is "crippling" this club, why are billions traded in bond markets every day? Why do these supposedly financially sophisticated corporations keep on issuing debt? Are they "crippled" by such debt?
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The ownership is crippling this club - part of which involves the debt which we're paying many millions in interest fees every year from the clubs own coffers, money which otherwise would have and should have been invested back into the club. Likewise for the dividends we're paying these rats, likewise for the poor appointments of people at high posts within the club which has also cost us. The debt isn't the sole issue, but its a pretty substantial one.
 
With the way he’s run the club for 18 years and how he’s handled this sale process, I hope nobody wants to do any business with Malcolm Glazer after this is all over
 
LawCharltonBest said:
With the way he’s run the club for 18 years and how he’s handled this sale process, I hope nobody wants to do any business with Malcolm Glazer after this is all over
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I don't think anyone will be doing business with him ever again, in fact I guarantee it.
 
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