Club Sale | It’s done!

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Feck, called a contact in the US owing me a favor and asked why a Cayman company listed on the NYSE amidst merger speculations would appoint its CLO as a board director.

He right away asked me if the CLO was American or European — and if the later was the case, how many on the board were US citizen. After noting that it was 6 of 11 before the change — he informed me that if a so called Foreign Private Issuer has a majority of US directors on the board, it will become subject to the same reporting obligations as a US company (which supposedly is quite cumbersome)... Hence they were in a real hurry to get another non-American on the Board before the end of the year. This void was of course created by Ed Woodward stepping down earlier in the year.

So 100% unrelated to any sale of the club…
I saw somebody else tweet that we had too many americans on the board also, so that seems to add up.

Seems like the press just trying to make it sound significant but a pretty normal business step.

Whether the addition of him is important though, they could have picked any non american.
 
Are you mixing Qatar with Dubai in this post? You mention Dubai getting bailed out, but then proceed to talk about Qatar investment fund the next paragraph but mention the asset value of ICD.

Re Dubai in 2009 - a very simplistic view. Dubai was just getting started with diversifying their economy when the financial crisis hit in 2008. It's way different now then back then.

I have previously written that Abu Dhabi are very keen/dependant on Dubai succeeding in their vision, as a successful Dubai benefits Abu Dhabi and UAE in general massively. Their royal families are also very closely linked. Hence why Abu Dhabi, who earn a feck tonne due to rising energy costs, have noe trouble backing their little brother. Dubai has been very successful in building the city as a major financial and tourist hub - the two sectors who took the biggest hit during the pandemic.

It's hard to tell how big their cashflow is, due to several factors like the full effect of the pandemic (local and worldwide), lack of transparency, asset portfolio (ICD) mostly tied up in the local market etc. They reported red numbers and a dip in asset value after 2020, but records for 2021 are in black and asset value going up again. On paper they seem to have manage to stabilize the economic situation (although loan ratio going up very high) and are actually expecting a small increase in GDP for 2023.

The EU is about to blacklist Dubai though, which can rule them out. Or maybe Brexit can help after all?
What do you mean EU will blacklist them?
 
Feck, called a contact in the US owing me a favor and asked why a Cayman company listed on the NYSE amidst merger speculations would appoint its CLO as a board director.

He right away asked me if the CLO was American or European — and if the later was the case, how many on the board were US citizen. After noting that it was 6 of 11 before the change — he informed me that if a so called Foreign Private Issuer has a majority of US directors on the board, it will become subject to the same reporting obligations as a US company (which supposedly is quite cumbersome)... Hence they were in a real hurry to get another non-American on the Board before the end of the year. This void was of course created by Ed Woodward stepping down earlier in the year.

So 100% unrelated to any sale of the club…


I was with with you all the way up to ‘feck’
 
UAE does not own City. Abu Dhabi investment group own them.
UAE is a country but it is also a federation of Emirates. Each one is autonomous to a degree. And in the case of football clubs it usually isn't a case of one Emirate owning a club but a company that may or may not be owned by one particular emirate.
I think the City ownership is far more political than a business one. We all know it's quite literally not a business venture because profits are simply not there and they never will be. It's a sportswashing tool. And regardless of the UAE being a federation, it's still one country.
 
Feck, called a contact in the US owing me a favor and asked why a Cayman company listed on the NYSE amidst merger speculations would appoint its CLO as a board director.

He right away asked me if the CLO was American or European — and if the later was the case, how many on the board were US citizen. After noting that it was 6 of 11 before the change — he informed me that if a so called Foreign Private Issuer has a majority of US directors on the board, it will become subject to the same reporting obligations as a US company (which supposedly is quite cumbersome)... Hence they were in a real hurry to get another non-American on the Board before the end of the year. This void was of course created by Ed Woodward stepping down earlier in the year.

So 100% unrelated to any sale of the club…

who was the sixth American? (there are five Glazers right?)
 
I think the City ownership is far more political than a business one. We all know it's quite literally not a business venture because profits are simply not there and they never will be. It's a sportswashing tool. And regardless of the UAE being a federation, it's still one country.
What does that matter? There are currently 8 American owners (I think I may be one or two off) in the premier league, Abu Dhabi owning one club and Dubai owning another would be no different to that.
 
I think the City ownership is far more political than a business one. We all know it's quite literally not a business venture because profits are simply not there and they never will be. It's a sportswashing tool. And regardless of the UAE being a federation, it's still one country.

They compete in a number of fields though. Emirates is by far the most successful airline of the UAE for example and that's owned by the Dubai Investment corp.

Etihad on the other hand is Abu Dhabi owned and it loses a shed load of money every year. In fact I believe they have yet to post a profit once in their entire existence.

Dubai investment corp could easily flex their financial muscle and buy Utd and Abu Dhabi would have nothing to do with it nor stop it. I'm still not sure they will though but it sure looks like it will be middle eastern money to me. The Glazers clearly didn't go to Qatar just for the world cup.
 
who was the sixth American? (there are five Glazers right?)

I think they are 6, I thought 5 too for some reason. In any event there are 6 Glazers on the board: Avram, Joel, Kevin, Bryan, Darcie and Edward.
 
There can be a few reasons for this.

1. I am fairly certain that this is made due to legal aspects or formal reasons. There is no purpose in appointing someone to the board just because they will work with something or be active in some regard.

2. The most common reason for changes of a board in connection with a merger are the quorum rules of the Board. Typically, if a director has a conflict of interest he/she cannot participate in a resolution and the board can only make resolutions if more than half of the directors are present. So if you have like a board with 6 directors a 3 of them have a Conflict of Interest regarding a Merger, the board would not have a quorum. If you elect another director, 4 of 7 can participate and you can make decisions regarding the merger.

Before this move, the board of the club had 11 directors. Of those, 6 were "Glazers", 2 are Glazer people (Arnold and Baty) and 3 are independent directors. After this move, the board has 12 directors of which 6 are Glazers and 6 are non-major shareholders of the company (i.e. not directly affected by a merger).

What are the rules on Conflict of Interest and quorum's for Manchester United plc? First of all, this is a field were one thing can be acceptable from a formal point of view, another standard can apply in case there is litigation following a merger which there always is. I can't provide any info on any unwritten Cayman Island/US merger litigation standards. But if we look at the Articles of Association of Manchester United plc -- there is a quorum if you can get a "simple majority" of the Directors appointed from time to time. Which directors can be present for a resolution? The AoA are impressively flexible. Remember, the Cayman Islands are as majority owner friendly as it gets, and the AoA expressly states that no matter if you someone has a conflict of interest they can participate in a board resolution. But all this is only to the extent possible under the Cayman Islands' Companies Act.

In summary, it does not seem like the board need another director in order to form a quorum for a board resolution on a merger. However, from a risk management/litigation POV -- there could be some unwritten rules they want to adhere to, but I don't quite think so. If we want to be very conspiratorial -- one could speculate on what happens if none of the Glazers vote on an issue. Before the appointment of Patrick Stewart, you had two external guys appointed by Avram and Joel (R. Arnold and Cliff Baty) and three independent directors. Now they can hold a meeting where more than 6 participates, say Richard Arnold is elected Chair of the meeting, the Glazers lay down their votes due to the risk of getting sued, the independent directors do not take any responsibility and lay down their votes or votes against a merger, and Arnold (casting vote) + Baty + Stewert votes for the merger. 100% speculation and probably very unlikely.

3. It is very common that a listed company, with several directors on the board who has some form of conflict of interest, for risk management reasons appoint an independent sub-committee of uninterested directors to consider a takeover. This is my best bet for why this is done. I.e. that the Board of Manchester United plc will establish an "independent takeover committee" including the non-conflicted directors, to deal with everything -- practical -- related to the merger, since the Glazers' have a conflict of interest. Like its possible that Arnold and Baty also are deemed to have a conflict of interest, which only would leave the independent directors Robert Leitão, Man Utd Sawhney and John Hooks in charge of the independent deal committee. On top of that, Robert Leitão is actually the Managing Partner for Rotschilds who are advising the Glazers on the sale of the club. Does he really not have a conflict of interest even if the club label him as an "independent" director? If so, that would leave just Man Utd Sawhney and John Hooks -- 'here you go, everyone know that you will get sued, but of the 11 directors of the board 9 have pulled out so you must take your responsibility now'. I have been in this situations a couple of times my self. You leap a bunch of responsibility on a few directors -- who always are the least suited for it. But if the General Counsel of the Club joins the board and participates on the committee, the remaining few get as much support as they can get.

4. So what does it mean if the Board of Directors have appointed an independent sub-committee to handle everything related to a merger? Does the Glazers lose control? No, definitely not. A merger ultimately requires approval by the shareholders at a general meeting -- which the Glazers control -- so the Glazers still has 100% control on if a merger takes place. Its just a formal measure done so that you at least can pretend that the board is independent and acts in the interest of all shareholders.

Having considered this back and forth, like I can only come to the conclusion that this would mean that a merger is close. Sounds scary to say, but its what I would bet on. There are many X factors, many unknown variables.

When coming to that conclusion, its based on the assumption that Patrick Stewert is appointed for the reason the the board is creating a sub-committee to which it is delegating everything regarding a merger as well as the following assumption: Theoretically, the job of the bid committee could of course be to -- turn down -- a merger proposal. But these processes as far as I am aware always have a practical side and a formal side. To get a merger approved, you must have secured the Glazers support at a general meeting of the shareholders of Manchester United plc. That is what you negotiate first. When you have that in place, you iron out the formalities with the board. I just cannot envision a situation where someone makes a formal merger proposal to the board of the club without first having cleared it with the Glazers. I don't know what is due process on the Cayman Islands, but it would surprise me a great deal if a need to appoint an independent sub-committee occurred before a point where you have some kind of agreement between the main owner and a bidder.

There are so many knowledgeable people at this place. Would love to hear your input. Why is a General Counsel of a Company amidst strategic/merger discussion all of a sudden appointed as a director of the board? @ATXRedDevil @Big Ben Foster @pogbasformerbarber @Redjazz
Unfortunately I know absolutely nothing about board governance, so I'm not qualified to comment here, but logically, everything you said makes sense.
 
What do you mean EU will blacklist them?

The exposé of the Dubai property list has caused calls from EU politicians to blacklist Dubai as a threat to the money system in EU. Mainly due to having a lot of criminals and sanctioned oligarchs owning property in the Emirate. They are not happy about the anti-money laundeting work in UAE and want to blacklist the Emirate so they can impose sanctions. Not sure how it will affect Dubai or a possible takeover, but companies doing business in UAE might be targeted.
 
Are you mixing Qatar with Dubai in this post? You mention Dubai getting bailed out, but then proceed to talk about Qatar investment fund the next paragraph but mention the asset value of ICD.

Re Dubai in 2009 - a very simplistic view. Dubai was just getting started with diversifying their economy when the financial crisis hit in 2008. It's way different now then back then.

I have previously written that Abu Dhabi are very keen/dependant on Dubai succeeding in their vision, as a successful Dubai benefits Abu Dhabi and UAE in general massively. Their royal families are also very closely linked. Hence why Abu Dhabi, who earn a feck tonne due to rising energy costs, have noe trouble backing their little brother. Dubai has been very successful in building the city as a major financial and tourist hub - the two sectors who took the biggest hit during the pandemic.

It's hard to tell how big their cashflow is, due to several factors like the full effect of the pandemic (local and worldwide), lack of transparency, asset portfolio (ICD) mostly tied up in the local market etc. They reported red numbers and a dip in asset value after 2020, but records for 2021 are in black and asset value going up again. On paper they seem to have manage to stabilize the economic situation (although loan ratio going up very high) and are actually expecting a small increase in GDP for 2023.

The EU is about to blacklist Dubai though, which can rule them out. Or maybe Brexit can help after all?
What better way to stick 2 fingers up at the EU than buying one of the biggest clubs in the world and dominating the CL year in, year out…..well there probably are better ways but for the sake of this thread…
 
I think they are 6, I thought 5 too for some reason. In any event there are 6 Glazers on the board: Avram, Joel, Kevin, Bryan, Darcie and Edward.

Ah okay yeah

What you say makes perfect sense in terms of why they made the change

Reporting to US standards compared to Cayman is no joke!
 
Maybe the reason we dont know the buyers is no one is prepared to offer what the glazers want now and they think by putting out they want to sell by march will panic someone to offer around what they want.

As I understand it, there were 28 bids for Chelsea that was getting consideration. Quite interestingly, that process also started with some well placed leaks of certain parties being interested across the field of different type of investors; one for example being the Cryptocurrency platform Binance. After a little while the CEO came out and denied it but it was confirmed that the Raine Group had reached out to him.

Among those leaked to be interested, Loutfy Mansour, the Egyptian chief executive of Man Capital, is a good example. I don’t have any insight into his bid/interest. But with some of these guys — just participating in the process gives them loads of attention, spotlight etc. Obviously, just getting their name out there gives you a ton of publicity in a fairly good atmosphere.

The facts that we have not had — one — leak like this, just shows that nobody is looking. For every really legit interested buyer, you could definitely find 10 who would love to get their name mentioned and have the means to pull it of — who wants to get mentioned. These guys all of a sudden got picky about reporting stuff without being 100% sure it will happen? Never.

I have heard talk about how some journalist are desperate to uncover information and working 24/7 to do so. If they did — we would have had more news. They went to Qatar and partied for 6 weeks and at the most search Twitter for news. We haven’t heard a word from Jim Ratcliffe who is a really central player in this process having resources and an outspoken interest. He flew to USA to meet the Glazers just months ago to buy the club. If the English journalists wanted to get something out of him, they would. Even if it’s ‘the process is ongoing’ or ‘we won’t make a bid’ it’s better than nothing.
 
Saw this report in the Sunday Times:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/england-lionesses-to-fly-business-class-to-world-cup-hchvhfg7t
City’s rivals could copy multi-club ownership model
Manchester City’s owners may have set the benchmark for a multi-club ownership model with their City Football Group organisation but analysts say there is every chance Manchester United or Liverpool could follow suit if they are bought by a private equity platform.

American private equity companies are eyeing both clubs and François Godard, co-author of a ‘Private equity and football’ report for Enders Analysis this week, told The Times: “Very few clubs have the capacity to go and buy other clubs but these ones do and a private equity investor could have the impetus to do that and build a multi-club network.” The report states that the Spanish and French football leagues’ sale of a stake to CVC Capital Partners in return for a share of future revenue reflects an attempt to try to stop falling further behind the Premier League in terms of finances.”
 
Anyone seriously discussing a deal would do so quietly - making your intentions public in itself tells you that they are not serious.

However, I’d imagine when discussions have progressed enough it may be leaked as always bringing another bid to the table ensures pencils are sharpened and the process keeps momentum.

Glazers wont want to look desperate as that harms the value. They are greedy so will be looking to squeeze everything they can out of it.

Also, not sure they are as desperate as some think to sell on very soon…..if funds are made available in Jan for transfers then that is a good sign that all is progressing n the right track.

Some decent performances and uplift on the pitch will help no end.
 
Anyone seriously discussing a deal would do so quietly - making your intentions public in itself tells you that they are not serious.

However, I’d imagine when discussions have progressed enough it may be leaked as always bringing another bid to the table ensures pencils are sharpened and the process keeps momentum.

Glazers wont want to look desperate as that harms the value. They are greedy so will be looking to squeeze everything they can out of it.

Also, not sure they are as desperate as some think to sell on very soon…..if funds are made available in Jan for transfers then that is a good sign that all is progressing n the right track.

Some decent performances and uplift on the pitch will help no end.

The latest set of financial results, them not taking dividends, them putting out a statement about their need for fresh funds, all points towards a sale which is very much needed.

Still to this point no one has been able to give an argument that stacks up, as to why someone would fund the Glazers, and not want majority control over the club. A sale is the only real viable option.

However, it has gone eerily quiet from someone like Ratcliffe's end. Before the statement from the Glazers, there were plenty of articles about Jim's interest and even official communication. Since the statement, I don't believe there's been any official communication of any sort from Ratcliffe's camp? Strange.
 
No serious investor would be playing out their intentions publicly…therefore can only say that’s a good thing - as I’m sure if JR’s consortium were not interested they would say so……the more telling sign is the amount of possible parties that have said they are not interested? Only Apple and the Spanish billionaire springs to mind…..
 
This is as high stakes as it goes in a football club takeover and you can be guaranteed that the Raine Group are screening out jokers and chancers, I wouldn't be shocked if the discussions are limited to a select few bidders and people at this level are as secretive as it gets. The Glazers certainly are.

The other thing is that the end of the World Cup coincided with the festive season so even if there is any information it will start leaking a few days after the new year when executives on both sides of the deal get back to work full time.
 
Sports journalism is usually the pits of journalism and there are just a handful of reliable journalists around. Most of the latter have multiple contacts in the club and its here were the problem lie. You see, the Glazers had always kept ample distance between the club and themselves. That's something everyone within the club would say from SAF to Ronaldo. Thus negotiations are being done not in Manchester but in Tampa Bay which basically annuls every contact the likes of Romano and Ornstein have. I very much doubt if anyone apart from the inner circle know exactly what's going on.
 
Only have to look at how wide of the mark reports of our supposed transfer budgets are every year. It's clear the Glazer family haven't do much as given journalists the steam off their own piss.

Seeing the likes of Mike Keegan running around trying to push the inside scoop on likely buyers is a nonsense.

Sports journalists for years have done nothing more than what we've all been doing in this thread; naming rich people we assume can afford us and assuming that might mean we interested. Only they add on 'sources say'
 
Sports journalists for years have done nothing more than what we've all been doing in this thread; naming rich people we assume can afford us and assuming that might mean we interested. Only they add on 'sources say'
True. And then, just like transfers, sad people say we were 'linked with' something. Meaning sweet feck all.
 
I was excited it might be Apple.

Than it got scaled down to Amazon..

Now it is Tom dick or Harry. The excitement is dead.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if this drags on for a long time. The Glazers ownership was marked by incompetence and greed during all this time since 2005. Why wouldn't their sale process be marked by the same?
 
Wouldn't surprise me if this drags on for a long time. The Glazers ownership was marked by incompetence and greed during all this time since 2005. Why wouldn't their sale process be marked by the same?

Raine group are handling it so hopefully it should go smoothly
 
Wouldn't surprise me if this drags on for a long time. The Glazers ownership was marked by incompetence and greed during all this time since 2005. Why wouldn't their sale process be marked by the same?

They will aim for a sale before the end of the season just in case we don’t make next seasons Champions League
 
I was excited it might be Apple.

Than it got scaled down to Amazon..

Now it is Tom dick or Harry. The excitement is dead.
It was never going to be any of those because it makes zero business sense. The only sensible option is state sportswashing venture or American business consortium that will look to double their investment over 10 years
 
It was never going to be any of those because it makes zero business sense. The only sensible option is state sportswashing venture or American business consortium that will look to double their investment over 10 years
Why wouldn't Apple or Amazon want to double their investment in 10 years? Sportswashing is basically advertising the brand, so why wouldn't Apple or Amazon want to do that either?
 
apple are really careful with their brand and it’s already extremely strong, I doubt they’d want to risk adding a sports club into the mix

Amazon makes more sense, albeit still unlikely imo
 
apple are really careful with their brand and it’s already extremely strong, I doubt they’d want to risk adding a sports club into the mix

Amazon makes more sense, albeit still unlikely imo
If Amazon bought United, wouldn't that pose an issue if they also wanted to increase their streaming offer of the PL ? I think they would get more instant profits if they could offer a Prime PL streaming than dealing with the hassle of ownership.
 
If Amazon bought United, wouldn't that pose an issue if they also wanted to increase their streaming offer of the PL ? I think they would get more instant profits if they could offer a Prime PL streaming than dealing with the hassle of ownership.
I think you’re absolutely right, and it’s the reason they’re not viable at all. It would be breaking the same anti-competition laws that BSkyB’s attempted takeover did.
 
Biggest bullshit red flags are Twitter people trying to sound itk talking or writing about it like it's a transfer.

Setting dates, rumoured price, 'source say'. This is a multibillion-pound compote deal. We WILL hear nothing until it's virtually completed

People behind these deals aren't briefing the Daily Mirror's North of England football correspondent for the scoop. Corporations and business people behind it take confidentiality of these deals extremely fecking seriously.
 
Why wouldn't Apple or Amazon want to double their investment in 10 years? Sportswashing is basically advertising the brand, so why wouldn't Apple or Amazon want to do that either?

These companies are unique because they are extremely impressive performers in select fields. They will only do stuff that helps them in those fields.

Apple and Google are all about profit margin. When Apple sell gods for 100£, 23£ is pure profit. For Google it is 21£ of 100£ sold. All this while growing fast. Like General Motors has a profit margin of 5% while not growing that fast. That is why investors fell in love with these companies.

Apple has cash on hand of like 50-60bn all the time. They don’t know what to do with it. Like surely, Apple could start making TVs, security cameras, camera door bells, buy successful apps — etc etc etc etc etc etc. The reason for why they don’t do it is simply the profit margin. It’s a company with a 350bn turnover with a 23% profit margin. It doesn’t want to be a 500bn company if that means a 17% profit margin. Same with Google.

Facebook (now Meta) is also a profit margin machine. They make their money from custom made advertising. But their profit margins are nose diving. Ultimately Google and Apple are higher up the latter of Facebook. Facebook have to abide to the rules used on iOS and Android. Recent changes have hit Facebook really hard. Profit margin is down like 50% the last year. Facebook aren’t drawing new users.

Netflix is more of a mix between growth and margin. But Netflix issue is that they are facing hard genuine competition. Nobody can create someone to compete with Facebook, Amazon or Google. They just have too big of a head start. Netflix is huge — but can 100% be competed with.

Amazon on the other hand is all about growth. Amazon is a 500bn turnover company, that up until just a year ago grew with 20% per year. If they kept growing with 20% per year for another 10 years, they would have been a 3000bn turnover company in 2031. In 2022 their growth has however been stunted, dipping down towards 5–10%.

Remember that Amazon was an internet book store that — a bit simplified — had to put up their own servers to spread make this bookstore available across the globe. All of a sudden, everyone that came after them could buy space on their servers instead of investing a ton by putting up their own servers across the globe. All of a sudden Amazon was the biggest provider of Cloud services (or one of them at least), which was a money making machine. Amazon could have spun off their Cloud business, and have like Amazon Cloud be a competitor with Apple and Google in terms of profit margin. But instead it kept to its online e commerce focus — and used the cloud money making machine they had to put all their competitors out of business in a bunch of fields.

-> Of these type of buyers, Amazon far and out make more sense than the others. Apple? Perhaps through Tim Cook/Vanguard (ie shareholders). Netflix? Wouldn’t rule it out — but Netflix is in a highly competitive field and can’t make bad/speculative investments. The math must add up today, they can’t invest 10bn to perhaps have it become useful in 5-10 years.

I think that the biggest argument against it in the Amazon board room is the responsibility and risk that comes with it. In relation to other fields, it is a really exposed business. The directors of Amazon are of course not football experts, could know nothing about United. I can just imagine that it seems risky to buy us and people with no insight. On one hand, what is the upside? That should be intriguing. On the other hand, what is the down side? One billion followers, what if we screw it up? Get the club demoted? There is another Highbury? Will we (the directors) be threatened by hooligans? How will fans of rival clubs react?

Someone like Beezos could push it through. But the normal director would probably shy away from the risk and responsibility. I personally don’t think it’s warranted. Just handle it like UAE is handling Man City. Create a sub group and push money into it.
 
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