Club Sale | It’s done!

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Amarsdd said:
Of the three you mentioned, I'd only consider City a definite success. Newcastle its barely been a year and PSG more of a default success in the French league; you have to have done something seriously wrong if you can't win the league every year having a wage bill 10x the second highest and transfer spend similar factor vs the whole league combined. Do you really thing PSG will have the same success or even a tenth of it being run like that in this PL?

Anyway, so being state backed/having financial resources would basically mean they can hire the best people to run the club? Why can't Jim do that as well? I'm sure he has learnt some lessons at a level of club similar to Malaga i.e. Nice (completely different level than United) and was already lining up Paul Mitchell (can't say I know much about him but supposedly highly touted).

btw don't mind me picking your brain. I'm just trying to get my head around people here talking about how Qatari ownership would be 100% success whereas SJR ownership a 100% failure.
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Newcastle have gone from favourites to be relegated to top 4 in the space of about 16 months. Psg went from midtabke French side to champions league finalists in 9 years. While you can say psg might not have the same success in the Premier league they also wouldn't have the same restrictions where you have throw an absolute ton of money to get players to waste their best years in a subpar league.

As I've said Qatar isn't a guaranteed success and I don't think Jim would be a failure. But I am concerned that in his one public statement he didn't even commit to clearing the debt. Maybe he will, but to ignore such an obvious PR win and way to generate goodwill if he does intend to do it is fairly odd
 
jm99 said:
Newcastle have gone from favourites to be relegated to top 4 in the space of about 16 months. Psg went from midtabke French side to champions league finalists in 9 years. While you can say psg might not have the same success in the Premier league they also wouldn't have the same restrictions where you have throw an absolute ton of money to get players to waste their best years in a subpar league.

As I've said Qatar isn't a guaranteed success and I don't think Jim would be a failure. But I am concerned that in his one public statement he didn't even commit to clearing the debt. Maybe he will, but to ignore such an obvious PR win and way to generate goodwill if he does intend to do it is fairly odd
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Yeah made a huge mistake not doing that,also needed to address the stadium investment
 
MDFC Manager said:
But then again, Qatar can't win if Avram and Joel want to stick around. We've been told it's full ownership or nothing for the Qataris
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They would go IF Jassim slapped £6bn down but until he does they are happy to stay and work with Ratcliffe which is awful
 
There's not much point worrying about good PR until you've got a deal to take over the club, given we have absolutely no say over who the Glazers sell to.
 
DOTA said:
There's not much point worrying about good PR until you've got a deal to take over the club, given we have absolutely no say over who the Glazers sell to.
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But he wouldn't have sacrificed anything by saying he would clear the debt. It's not like it would have cost him anything to do it, if he fails. I'd assume a billionaire would recognise the value of good PR, I mean look how many people, myself included, favour jassim solely because of this. If Jim's advisors can't even suggest that it might be a good idea to generate good pr with the fans of the club he's looking to buy, by doing something with zero cost, then thats really worrying
 
jm99 said:
But he wouldn't have sacrificed anything by saying he would clear the debt. It's not like it would have cost him anything to do it, if he fails. I'd assume a billionaire would recognise the value of good PR, I mean look how many people, myself included, favour jassim solely because of this. If Jim's advisors can't even suggest that it might be a good idea to generate good pr with the fans of the club he's looking to buy, by doing something with zero cost, then thats really worrying
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Yeah he's been badly advised on that one
 
jm99 said:
But he wouldn't have sacrificed anything by saying he would clear the debt. It's not like it would have cost him anything to do it, if he fails. I'd assume a billionaire would recognise the value of good PR, I mean look how many people, myself included, favour jassim solely because of this. If Jim's advisors can't even suggest that it might be a good idea to generate good pr with the fans of the club he's looking to buy, by doing something with zero cost, then thats really worrying
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He'd have tied himself to either clearing the debt or pissing us all off at the start of his ownership, which seems unwise.
 
DOTA said:
He'd have tied himself to either clearing the debt or pissing us all off at the start of his ownership, which seems unwise.
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Righ, and if he isn't going to clear the debt then I don't think he'll make a great owner, that's the point, jassim has done that. I have concerns about Ratcliffe because he hasn't committed to clearing the debt, so either he isn't intending to clear it or he's foolishly passed up an easy PR win, neither are exactly ringing endorsements
 
jm99 said:
Righ, and if he isn't going to clear the debt then I don't think he'll make a great owner, that's the point, jassim has done that. I have concerns about Ratcliffe because he hasn't committed to clearing the debt, so either he isn't intending to clear it or he's foolishly passed up an easy PR win, neither are exactly ringing endorsements
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Obviously the debt needs to be dealt with much better than the Glazers have dealt with it but it doesn't need to be immediately all paid off, so I doubt it will be a priority for him to do so, I think he'll look to invest elsewhere.
 
DOTA said:
Obviously the debt needs to be dealt with much better than the Glazers have dealt with it but it doesn't need to be immediately all paid off, so I doubt it will be a priority for him to do so, I think he'll look to invest elsewhere.
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Well jassim has said he'll pay off all the debt and invest in a new stadium and facilities and on the field, that's why I think he's the better potential owner
 
jm99 said:
Well jassim has said he'll pay off all the debt and invest in a new stadium and facilities and on the field, that's why I think he's the better potential owner
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Yeah totally agree Ratcliffe missed a trick
 
DOTA said:
Yes, he's said a lot of things.
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Yes and Jim hasn't said those things, looking at the level of investment city and psg have made and Newcastle even though its been one summer, there's not really much reason to doubt that jassim would make this investment in us, and your sarcastic remarks don't really explain why you seem to doubt that the qataris would do what they're saying
 
croadyman said:
Yeah totally agree Ratcliffe missed a trick
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Well that's my worry, is it that he's missed a trick PR wise, or is it that he has no intention of clearing the debt and therefore doesn't want to commit to it?
 
jm99 said:
Yes and Jim hasn't said those things, looking at the level of investment city and psg have made and Newcastle even though its been one summer, there's not really much reason to doubt that jassim would make this investment in us, and your sarcastic remarks don't really explain why you seem to doubt that the qataris would do what they're saying
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That's not what sarcasm is.

I've said a few times in this thread I become less and less convinced that what we are told regarding what the Qataris would do if successful in their bid is true, the more reports that they are getting outbid we hear, as it doesn't really add up.
croadyman said:
Yeah I suspect it's the latter
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I would've thought so.
 
DOTA said:
That's not what sarcasm is.

I've said a few times in this thread I become less and less convinced that what we are told regarding what the Qataris would do if successful in their bid is true, the more reports that they are getting outbid we hear, as it doesn't really add up.
I would've thought so.
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Well my feeling is given that we've heard basically every single possible report, including Jim wil win, Qatar will win, Jim bid more Qatar bid more, Jim's about to be the preferred bidder, its going to take another month etc, for as long as this process has been going on, and that the bidders are likely all bound by NDAs any reports don't really mean anything, as if Ratcliffe, jassim or raine are on the phone to some guy from the daily mail saying "here are the exact numbers pf the latest bid"
 
united_99 said:
Well we are United and even the Glazers have managed to attract/buy better players than the ones you listed for Nice. It’s much easier to attract (and pay top money to) players for United or PSG than to Nice or Switzerland.
Bottom line is I don’t see either as perfect owners but am hoping that both will be better than the Glazers and in this case I prefer the bid which will not be state owned.
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We all know what happens when our club is poorly run. Add that the 'sustainability' creed of SJR and...

Also note that

A-PSG were basically nothing prior to the Qatari arrival. They made them the dominating force in the French league. That was achieved by investing money but also by bringing players on silly salaries (ie a necessary evil for them)

B- Nice FC can't even get the youth academy to function correctly. They are 4th last in group D of the U19 league. That's crazy considering that developing youths is how the French clubs tend to make money. Psg btw are 2nd in group A
 
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united_99 said:
Well we are United and even the Glazers have managed to attract/buy better players than the ones you listed for Nice. It’s much easier to attract (and pay top money to) players for United or PSG than to Nice or Switzerland.
Bottom line is I don’t see either as perfect owners but am hoping that both will be better than the Glazers and in this case I prefer the bid which will not be state owned.
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When Qatar too over psg they'd finished below 10th twice in the previous 4 years, the fact you now consider them a big club, having been formed in the 1970s with limited levels of success between then and the Qatar takeover says what a great job has been done there.
 
Past few days have been explosive, I wonder what today and tomorrow have in store. Last Friday evening we got the INEOS briefs indicating they were in pole position, how much changes in a week interms of narrative.
 
RedStarUnited said:
You don't think having a long sales process hinders the club in any sort of way?

Let's say a world class player calls Eric tomorrow and says he wants to join United, Glazers will still have to approve any transfer. Would they really care about said transfer given that they are in the middle of selling us? Does that not hinder our progress?
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You are again missing wood for the trees transfers are still a minor thing in the grand scheme of things .

As we are dealing with hypotheticals here is scenario for you , a club is in dire financial situation could default on payments and go into administration and Pl has put a specific time period in which they need to find buyer .

They actually manage to get a buyer but things fail at last moment and deadline is almost over, lucky for them another Buyer shows interest but need more time to get due diligence done beyond the so called deadline so should PL allow the Club go into Administration and go bust .

There are far more important matters than Players transfers , system is fine as it is let's not make it more complicated than it needs to be.
 
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Infra-red said:
That wouldn't make much sense. The Ineos bid is reportedly still larger than the Qatar bid, so Ineos don't need to do anything to match/beat it.
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Qatar offer 6.9b usd with 1b investment included so in reality 5.9b usd club value.
Ineos 6b usd club value.
Qatar offers direct payment no installments.
Ineos payment with installments in 3-5 years.
Qatar wants to buy all the shares.
Ineos offered to buy all 69% of the Glazers shares or 50% of the Glazers shares leaving Avram and Joel for 3 more years with an exit plan.
 
jm99 said:
When Qatar too over psg they'd finished below 10th twice in the previous 4 years, the fact you now consider them a big club, having been formed in the 1970s with limited levels of success between then and the Qatar takeover says what a great job has been done there.
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PSG are an absolute mess of a club.
They are not a good advert for this type of ownership model.

Sure, they've had success but they're playing in Ligue 1 ffs. Aside from the first lockdown season, they've been nowhere near the Champions League despite spending billions
 
Giggsyking said:
Qatar offer 6.9b usd with 1b investment included so in reality 5.9b usd club value.
Ineos 6b usd club value.
Qatar offers direct payment no installments.
Ineos payment with installments in 3-5 years.
Qatar wants to buy all the shares.
Ineos offered to buy all 69% of the Glazers shares or 50% of the Glazers shares leaving Avram and Joel for 3 more years with an exit plan.
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What's the source for this , aren't Glazers getting payment for 51 % stake straight away only the rest at the later date where is this installments thing even coming from.
 
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Amarsdd said:
Malaga FC, consistent midtable Spanish First Division team, now stuck in the Second Division for 4 years, almost getting relegated to the Third division this year (one place above the relegation zone).
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Malaga was a 'yo-yo' club as the pro INEOS people like to put it. They were in the Secunda division 2 years prior Abdullah Al Thani bought them. They also had huge financial problems as well. This is of course a shit excuse since you expect the owners to turn things around which is exactly what Abdullah Al Thani did. They went to 11th place in his first year, they were 4th in his second year and they reached the quarter final of the CL only to be fecked by referee decisions which saw Dortmund passing through. INEOs clubs would dream of having such record and that despite Abdullah Al Thani is worth no where near to what INEOS are worth.

Things got sour when Abdullah had money issues which kind of show that this was not state backed. Its different to Jassim who wouldn't be able to buy Manchester United otherwise.
 
devilish said:
Things got sour when Abdullah had money issues which kind of show that this was not state backed. Its different to Jassim who wouldn't be able to buy Manchester United otherwise.
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So a rich individual from Qatar can buy a football club as well. Why is everyone sure that Jassim is a proxy for a state-backed bid? Abdullah proved that a Qataris individual could buy a football club too.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
So a rich individual from Qatar can buy a football club as well. Why is everyone sure that Jassim is a proxy for a state-backed bid? Abdullah proved that a Qataris individual could buy a football club too.
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You have to follow the money mate. For example Abdullah Al Thani is worth 800m dollars. He bought Malaga for 35m. That's within the realms of his possibility and quite frankly it makes more sense for him to go solo then involve the Qatari state (which in turn would want something back). The richest member of Jassim's immediate family is his father Hamad and his net worth is that of 1.1B. There's no chance in hell that he can afford Manchester United.
 
bond19821982 said:
Glazers in a nutshell. This is the reason why we haven't been successful despite spending more than a billion.

Always late and always make the wrong decisions.
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Exactly the end up putting themselves over a barrel and then panic. They just let themselves get taken for a ride time after time. Instead of saying this is our offer, take it or leave and move on to another target. They give in and overpay.
 
devilish said:
You have to follow the money mate. For example Abdullah Al Thani is worth 800m dollars. He bought Malaga for 35m. That's within the realms of his possibility and quite frankly it makes more sense for him to go solo then involve the Qatari state (which in turn would want something back). The richest member of Jassim's immediate family is his father Hamad and his net worth is that of 1.1B. There's no chance in hell that he can afford Manchester United.
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In that case how can he pass the "fit and proper" test even if he manages to get the Glazers nod, though?
 
Infra-red said:
If you believe the reports, Ineos are (currently) winning. Their valuation of the Glazers' shares is higher than Qatar's and they are more flexible and willing to offer the family a remaining interest. Qatar have closed much of the valuation gap with their offer yesterday, but it looks like they will lose unless they up their offer again. The question is whether we can believe the reports.
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However, the family walk away with more money now.
 
Seems the INEOS bid is structured to buy just the Glazers class A and B shares at a premium. The idea is the group will buy 31% of the remaining shares listed on the NY Stock Exchange at a much lower price further down the years. It's very likely those shares will go down due to no dividends being paid and the group showing losses with all the repair work, interest payments and infrastructure works required.

Basically, it's a cleverly structured deal means INEOS pays less for the club to the detriment of the club and smaller shareholders. Obviously, this is just my take on the situation.
 
MancunianAngels said:
PSG are an absolute mess of a club.
They are not a good advert for this type of ownership model.

Sure, they've had success but they're playing in Ligue 1 ffs. Aside from the first lockdown season, they've been nowhere near the Champions League despite spending billions
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What I fail to understand is, if they are playing in Ligue 1, isn't Nice playing there too? If they are any good, why are they 10th? There are 8 other clubs between Psg and Nice, that don't have Psg sort of money.

Are the investments by SJR so poor?
 
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