Well, like I said closer cultural ties will likely gradually make things better for lbgt people living in those countries. It might make us feel superior to say feck off until you share all our values (though we'll keep buying your gas and oil) but turning a country into an international pariah tradionally makes them more insular and nationalistic and not less, which is likely to mean things stay bad for people in those countries.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Well, like I said closer cultural ties will likely gradually make things better for lbgt people living in those countries. It might make us feel superior to say feck off until you share all our values (though we'll keep buying your gas and oil) but turning a country into an international pariah tradionally makes them more insular and nationalistic and not less, which is likely to mean things stay bad for people in those countries.
Welcome Ratcliffe.
I'll go to hating you tomorrow but for for now, I'll celebrate the lesser of three evils being the temporary custodian of our strange and wonderful football club.
I'll go to hating you tomorrow but for for now, I'll celebrate the lesser of three evils being the temporary custodian of our strange and wonderful football club.
The MUFC LGBT supporters club have come out against this. As have Human rights organisations.
Everything the club from the point that Qatar took over did would be funded by and originate from a regime that believes in outlawing them. It shouldn't be hard to see why they might lose any sense of pride or belonging as a supporter of Manchester United at that stage.
In my view Qatar's sportswashing initiatives are an attempt to distract from their human rights failings and promote a better image of the state to Western eyes, who are uncomfortable with the status of queer people in their country, amongst other things.
As such I see the sportswashing as an alternative to queer rights. You won't need to stop persecuting gays if you can successfully distract from it.
If United were a major part of that sportswashing, they would to me be at odds with gay rights. In which case I very much feel excluded.
I hope we get him tbh. I don’t think we will, but fingers crossed. It’s a man with insane talent for making good decisions. I think it’s ridiculous to even think he would not do everything in his power to make us great.
It’s ok saying that but Jim’s bid looks piss poor on paper, the only way he’s getting in is because he’s agreed to keep the Glazers on board for the time being. Jim’s bid of 50% is around 2.5-3B quid, there’s no guarantee what so ever of his plans with that ‘little’ stake in the club.
He isn’t going to pay off debts that are owed with just a 50% stake of the club and we’ve had no promises on the stadium situation, again is he going to invest 1B into something that he half owns?
Then to further my worries I look at his time with Nice. They’ve gone backwards and are currently mid table in France after 4 poor years of Ineos ownership I just can’t get behind his bid what so ever it seems awful
No deal is done until both parties spit in their hands and shake on it.
Sorry to hear that. I genuinely feel so angry for people who will have to go through this.
Just a heads up, Asda have 20% off bed sheets. Perfect for a barely legible protest banner.
They'd say, "Announce Mbappe!"
As far as I remember, you failed miserably when you tried to do that last time because you are again just blindly assuming I am some sort of Qatar supporter club member or something
But isn't it the case, particularly in Saudi Arabia, that the religious elders still hold a fair amount of power and the population is largely pretty religious, tbh I doubt the crown Prince of Saudi Arabia seriously cares about whether someone is gay, but the religious elements within the population would still be outraged at anything that seemed pro lgbt. If that country looks to attract western investment and have closer ties with the west, you likely have future generations growing up and being more tolerant. The rulers in these countries are motivated by money, I don't yhink they'd be massively opposed to improved lgbt rights if it made it easier to attract western investment, particularly given there's a limited time frame for how long oil and gas will continue bringing such huge profits, and they need to look towards a future without it
Ratcliffe and Glazer out! We are going to hear this a lot from now on. Anyone who is willing to spent money and still has to work close together with the Glazer is not someone, I will ever trust or want in my club. I already hate him.
Glazers have been dragging this whole thing out in expectation that Qatari’s will at some stage make a bid that blows competition out of the water. It looks increasingly likely that isn’t going to happen and INEOS have been more flexible and will get the deal done
I'm quietly confident he will win the race, not because Qatar can't afford us, but I don't think they can prove enough separation from the State or where the funds are coming from and because it's Raine group dealing with the process before the Premier League, UEFA and other authorities get involved, the Qataris cannot bluff their way through.
As I mentioned before, the Qatari deal died the moment Raine said they wanted proof of funds.
As for Jim, people focus on a couple of small football clubs he bought, but ignore the many other ventures he has been incredibly successful in. You don't come from a council estate and end up as one of the richest people on the planet without knowing a thing or two about being successful.
Tbh I don't know about that, Qatar doesn't exactly have a ton of oversight, even forbes has to just estimate wealth there rather than calculate from share holdings, I'm sure if they actually wanted to the emir could put 6 billion in an account under jassim's name, its not like here or the US where that would raise red flags
In Tory Britain, one can remove the government via referendum. In Qatar, you will be prosecuted for attempting to remove the government. Peacefully, too.
Stop playing innocent and stop with the false equivalences.
If you support Qatar, you are wholly complicit in their style of politic. Manchester (compli)city style.
This position just doesn't make sense.
By now it's quite obvious that the two Glazers are stubborn and won't sell at this point.
Without someone thinking outside the box, it's highly likely we'd be looking at years of Glazer control ahead of us.
We are lucky on a way that each Glazer is a separate shareholder, as if they operated as one, we would be fecked entirely. If Malcolm still held control, we would be fecked. It's the fact they are separate that has allowed for someone to target the 4 and get us out of this hellish situation.
BS.
But it would raise flags with the US and UK regulatory bodies, who would want to know where 6 billion appeared from.
Raine would want a paper trail. If Qatar refuse, well it makes the decision for them. They could fake it, of course but then that's fraud, and on a scale that would have severe consequences on a global scale, likely placing several high ranking Qataris on several international wanted lists.
So I doubt they'd risk it.
Unfortunately due to several unscrupulous people buying football clubs in the past and not having the funds, it's not so easy to bluff your way through a process and in my opinion, this has been Qatars biggest hurdle.
Work closely with them? They will be minority shareholders. They won't get a say on anything.
Yes. That sounds perfectly cromulent. Not at all at odds with INEOS’s statement about being long term custodians of a community asset.
Why would they be excluded or feel excluded? QSI celebrates pride day with PSG and as far as I know no member of the LGBT community has been denied entry to the Parc des Princes.
If this news came out the blue a year ago, that Ineos were going to take 50% and reduce the Glazers stake to a minority, then I’d have been over the moon
Feels a bit anticlimactic now
Feels a bit anticlimactic now
That's how sportswashing works.
The club is going nowhere under Ratcliffe. Mid-table obscurity here we come, but hey we'll have the moral high ground eh?
The most annoying thing about this SJR offer for the glazers to stay on is the fact that they will still get a payout when the option comes in to affect. You would hope SJR will be willing to spend money on infrastructure and the wide spread area. Not just a quick dump of cash in to transfer market hoping something works.
But anyway if they do invest in those things you would think the market value of United would increase meaning their shares should be worth more than they would be now. Knowing they might still eek out more money just irks me.
But anyway if they do invest in those things you would think the market value of United would increase meaning their shares should be worth more than they would be now. Knowing they might still eek out more money just irks me.
Yup, silver lining.
This is not an illogical or unreasonable argument in itself.
The obvious counter argument would be that as things stand (let's say the short- to mid-term perspective), it might be possible for those who are ultimately motivated by money to keep making money with little to no meaningful changes being made to internal/domestic practices.
The idea that "sportswashing" as a concept actually is a good thing, because at the end of the day it won't work unless genuine change happens, is...highly problematic.
What happened at the World Cup (to state an obvious example) was, arguably, that Qatar (assisted by FIFA) gave the finger to supposed "Western" values rather than making meaningful concessions.
Had to some catching-up to do in this thread. First, this comment here really gets on my nerves.
Really juvenile. FC United of Manchester is right there for you if purity is a must.
The greatest advantage of a potential Qatar win is that it will get rid of silly idealists like you who have totally lost touch with reality over the last decade. Football has no place for idealists and neither does the real world. You either have to be a pragmatist or end up being left behind. Come back to me if you choose to walk the walk in that eventuatlity.
All of those state-owned or state-backed clubs - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Zenit, PSG, City, Newcastle and co. do and will cheat. And you know what? They don't give a feck because no one has the balls to take them to the cleaners. At this rate, City will get away from the current investigation the same way Juventus were given their 15 points back. Then what? The last decade has been theirs (for all of those aforementioned clubs) and it ain't gonna change any time soon.
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Now to answer this:
I just typed "Manchester City LGBTQ" and then "PSG LGBTQ" on Google for a search. I have not seen anything so far to suggest that LGBTQ fans are excluded in those clubs right now. In fact, both clubs celebrate LGBTQ pride and the fight against homophobia the same way that North American sports clubs do. So far, only Idrissa Gueye chose to be an ass by missing out on last year's anti-homophobia game for PSG and he's been sold back to Everton since.
Really juvenile. FC United of Manchester is right there for you if purity is a must.
The greatest advantage of a potential Qatar win is that it will get rid of silly idealists like you who have totally lost touch with reality over the last decade. Football has no place for idealists and neither does the real world. You either have to be a pragmatist or end up being left behind. Come back to me if you choose to walk the walk in that eventuatlity.
All of those state-owned or state-backed clubs - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Zenit, PSG, City, Newcastle and co. do and will cheat. And you know what? They don't give a feck because no one has the balls to take them to the cleaners. At this rate, City will get away from the current investigation the same way Juventus were given their 15 points back. Then what? The last decade has been theirs (for all of those aforementioned clubs) and it ain't gonna change any time soon.
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Now to answer this:
I just typed "Manchester City LGBTQ" and then "PSG LGBTQ" on Google for a search. I have not seen anything so far to suggest that LGBTQ fans are excluded in those clubs right now. In fact, both clubs celebrate LGBTQ pride and the fight against homophobia the same way that North American sports clubs do. So far, only Idrissa Gueye chose to be an ass by missing out on last year's anti-homophobia game for PSG and he's been sold back to Everton since.
Would they though? If it was put into the bank of Qatar and not seen by any westerners, it wouldn't be too difficult to fudge the paperwork making it look older, showing that he'd drawn a salary or whatever for some made up job. When you control the banks and the regulatory bodies in the country, I'd imagine you could do whatever you want to make it look legit. I mean forbes has his dad estimated at 2bn wealth, but that's just assets that are known about, valuable paintings plus a yacht, his real wealth could be ten times that or it could all be tied up in those assets it's kind of impossible to know. Assuming his dad has that kind of money, if the state wants to buy United they'd just tell his dad to back his bid, they could reimburse him in a separate account or whatever. When you have the entire resources of an oil rich nation state, I don't think finding a source of funds would be difficult.
If jassim is indeed a front man, they've chosen him for a reason, and it's not like they won't have anticipated something like this, it could be they've chosen him because his dad is rich enough or whatever
I could well imagine that the fact that everything the club did from the point of Qatar taking over onwards would be funded by a state that outlaws their public existence would make it very difficult for a member of the LGBT community to feel any sense of pride or belonging at Manchester United, even if they weren't explicitly excluded from supporting the club.
If you likewise found out that the owner of a local restaurant believed you shouldn't be able to express your sexuality publicly, I imagine you might be put off from eating there, even if you weren't outright banned from doing so.
Mystic Mage
You keep pedalling this line and it’s nonsense.
With majority control INEOS will be the clubs de facto owner. They will act as owner and once the put and call kicks in they will own as much as the glazers do currently at least.
So yes, they will invest in infrastructure and for the thousandth time yes they will deal with the debt!
That’s a Covid no no. Don’t want to be spreading the ‘Rona around do we?!What I highlighted last week - absolutely amazing that so few put any focus on it until now
That’s equivalent to blasphemy in this thread.
(I mentioned it about a month ago too
So they have enough money that they can bid nearly 5bn but the additional 100-300mn they can't fund because a bank collapsed.
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