Club Sale | It’s done!

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TsuWave said:
You interpreting media reports as “their PR” is on you, not on them. Unless, you can categorically track those reports to Jassim/his team.

Again, investing +£2B on something you own (after purchasing the club) is completely different to paying over the odds to own the asset initially. Lowballed? By most reports their offer is a world record bid for a sporting institution, no? It’s a great offer for a club that is a declining force and that will need major investment to restore

The notion that they aren’t serious is comical, as is the notion that they should pay ridiculous sums/whatever it takes to own the club if they are.
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If you think that the journos are just so great at their job and cultivating sources that are meeting them in parking garages at 2am to give inside info, and that they aren't just reporting what they're briefed by the PR teams, then that's on you.

And Qatar did NOT place a world record bid. That's a great example of the PR. The problem with that assertion is that they didn't submit a world record bid. Qatar didn't bid for 100% of the club, because they can't. The Glazers don't own 100%. And according to reports, Ineos option for the full 69% that the Glazers own was more than Qatar's. And yes, that may be Ineos PR. But considering that we haven't gotten much of anything challenging that, that's what we have to go on.

And I never said that they should bid some outrageous sum. But there have been 3 rounds of bidding, and they've likely been told where they need to be, yet still came in with a lower bid. According to some reports, their bids have been lower than Ineos' in at least 2 rounds. That's lowballing.
 
greenoffpearson said:
That is right, so what's the 'sigh' in recongition for?

However the other concern is the quorum and the need to balance and satisfy the Glazers needs to maintain that quorum whilst SJR lacks the voting rights to maintain a quorum.
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It's not right.

Ineos has 3 board members. That constitutes a quorum on a board of 5.
 
DOTA said:
Pretty sure the majority opinion is that either Qatar or INEOS would be fine actually. It's those of us who have a strong opinion who are the minority more than anything.
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Yeh, this is probably right. The silent majority and all that
 
Andy_Cole said:
Ineos make money, no one wants cash sat in the bank though. So they're using cash/ spending power via loans to buy United with the mindset it will double in value in 10 years. Just a long term investment.
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You think that the 5bn without interests locked into United are more lucrative than those same 5bn in nearly any other traditional investment? And in that scenario they intend to sell in 10 years?
 
MiamiSpartan said:
Not saying you're a glory hunter, as I don't know you, but generally speaking, if the point is bragging rights and banter, then wouldn't everyone just support one of the top teams?

Either way, your assertion doesn't work for me. Maybe because I grew up in a time before the internet where you didn't come across opposing fans very much, but I generally don't like interacting with opposing fans. I have some good friends that are Liverpool and Chelsea supporters, but we don't really do bragging rights. Maybe some jokes in general (like just yesterday I was telling them that I refuse to ever drink a Carlsberg beer), but not really bragging and rubbing it in about wins and stuff.
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Very much not a glory hunter, United is the only club I have ever been a fan of, I have been a fan for over 25 years, so through success and failure. I am much more a United fan than I even consider myself a football fan, I am beyond obsessed. But what you are talking about the end is exactly what I was referring too. I am in Canada, I am not getting into brawls with rival fans or whatnot, I am talking about exactly what you are saying, banter and trash talk amongst friends and family. It's why you watch sport, entertainment, shared experiences with friends and family.
 
greenoffpearson said:
That is right, so what's the 'sigh' in recongition for?

However the other concern is the quorum and the need to balance and satisfy the Glazers needs to maintain that quorum whilst SJR lacks the voting rights to maintain a quorum.
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I’ve never understood Quorum. Why would you choose to stop eating meat but substitute it with something that is trying to be meat? Quorum tastes like crap too. Nasty tofu muck! :wenger:
 
Rojofiam said:
Probably another fraud like @Qatari who promised several times that a "full acquisition" would be completed by the end of March.
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I'm from the middle east and actually @Qatari is known for riding the wave I wouldn't trust at all, but the guy mentioned above is genuinely good and widely respected.
 
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JPRouve said:
You think that the 5bn without interests locked into United are more lucrative than those same 5bn in nearly any other traditional investment? And in that scenario they intend to sell in 10 years?
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I think I read somewhere that was Boehly's plan. So I used the same methodology. That sort of planning is the general rule when investing in the property market so makes sense. Obviously not putting interest into account.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Yeah you wouldn’t want them prepared to hit the ground running when they come in. :rolleyes:

It’s incredible how defensive some posters here are of the Qatari bid. You’re like Gollum with a shiny gold ring ffs.
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Actually quite hilarious. Considering it’s Ratcliff that is going against everything everyone was against 3 months ago.
 
only positive of potentially dropping out of top 4 would be glazers would be extremely likely to sell then before value plummeted even more from united. This shit needs to end ridiculous they cant even leave the club with any sort of decency gotta wring out ever last penny from the club fecking leeches.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
This latest deal from Sir Jim is such a bad idea somehow it’s worse than the glazers maintaining majority stake.

- Debt to buy club
- Original debt stays
- Glazers stay
- SJR needs significant funds on top of buying funds for less stake in the club

What a mess, can’t be allowed to happen.
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Giggsyking said:


He said he wanted to challenge PSG when he bought NICE, they were 5th at the time.
Nice since he bought them
18/19 7th
19/20 5th
20/21 9th
21/22 10th
22/23 so far 8th
Not only he did not improve them, they went backwards.
Every united supporter who is not convinced he will change anything in united has all the right to say so, not only that, these fans has data to back up their claim about Jim as an owner as mentioned above. Now add the thing that Jim is not buying the entire club, but the Glazers are still part of it and you will have a high rate recipe for failure.
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So, if anyone cares about the OGC Nice's real league finishing positions.

21/22 - 5th and in the cup final
20/21 - 9th
19/20 - 6th (first seasons of Ineos ownership)

Their average league position over the last 20 seasons have been about 10th. They've only made top 3 twice and top 4 four times.

The club was on the brink of liquidation when Ineos bought them.

last time they won anything of note, was when they won the cup in 96/97

make of it what you want.
 
Andy_Cole said:
I think I read somewhere that was Boehly's plan. So I used the same methodology. That sort of planning is the general rule when investing in the property market so makes sense. Obviously not putting interest into account.
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There is a big difference between Boehly and Ineos/Ratcliffe. Boehly's job is asset management, Clearlake Capital and likes of Elliott specializes in that. INEOS isn't a private equity firm, Ratcliffe isn't in that business so even if it was his plan he is essentially leaping in the dark.
 
Rightnr said:
This whole serious point is a misnomer. You either win the race (get United) or you might as well be 5th, 6th or 7th in the process. Same as the league (beyond CL qualification).

And this would apply to us if Brexit Jim buys us. We will compete, his Brexit fans will be happy with the plucky United label and City, Newcastle and whoever Qatar (as I eventually believe they will) buy will keep racking up titles.

And frankly (and this is the for anti-Qatar folk), the bullshit about sustainability can go to hell. We live one life and waiting another 20 years, so we marginally miss out on the title in the style of Arsenal this season has to be the most pathetic attitude I've ever witnessed. It's literally the same dumb argument as Brexit - we'll ruin your life but in 20 years it could be better but we cannot promise anything.
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Agree.

For me, this is the biggest problem with regards the SJR fans. They keep coming out with crap like 'we do it the right way...we don't need pots of money...its not fantasy football...I would rather we were run better...'. They seem happy with mediocrity and challenging for top 4 as opposed to getting United back to being the best club in the world, just because it makes them feel better were not run like City. It's laughable. While we're at it, lets bring rusty old turnstiles back and match day programs for a shilling ffs.

And as for this BS about fantasy football if the Qataris run us, they need to wake the feck up. Football has been fantasy football for nearly a decade, where have this lot been sleeping? The days of running a club like the good ol' days is just emotional attachment thats not rooted in reality anymore. If you want the best players, stadium and win things then I'm afraid to burst their bubble, but that takes money. A lot of money. We've been in fantasy football territory for a long time, City, Madrid, Barca, Liverpool, Chelsea have been throwing money around like sweets for years now and others like Newcastle are gearing up the same way. Spurs built a state of the art stadium and Barca are renovating theirs as are Madrid. Even Wrexham are building a new stadium for crying out loud.

If we want United to compete its going to take a major overhaul and cash. Fact. And we are so far behind with regards investment over the last ten years it's laughable. But hey, as long as they feel good about the way we do things, watching City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Chelsea and Spurs all playing fantasy football thats ok, we don't need to be like them. We can sleep easy at night, all tucked up in our United duvets with our posters of Bobby Charlton on the wall, knowing we're doing it the right way.

Feck silverware eh, who needs it...
 
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JagUTD said:
Twitter and reality are almost always opposites. Social media in general amplifies the loudest, most obnoxious voices and almost never represents the majority
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I use Twitter alot, and enjoy some good banter, but alot of the United fans are absolutely knowledgeless. I mean, you expect it from city fans, the club was only microwaved in 2008, but these people claim to be adults. If it's possible to both enjoy twitter and be appalled by it at the same time, that's where I'm at.
 
Do you think that Ineos/Jassim made some deadline to Glazers? Because they also know how important is summer transfer window.

Lets be realistic; it is not the same to buy a club in May or in July.
 
andersj said:
Perhaps not. But it would be a surprise if they bought a football club valuing it at £5-6 bill with a plan of making a profit in the form of dividend/rent. That makes no sense.

What do make sense was that a flagship like Man Utd, as the spearhead of a multiclub model, was always Ineos’ objective. In a multiclub model having that flagship will be crucial for Lausanne and Nice, but even more so for Ineos to achieve their targets.
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It didn't make sense when the Glazers did it. They would have been better off hiring a good football management team instead who would manage the club effectively, thus cutting losses while bringing success. That money could then be invested in improving the infrastructure which in turn would improve the club's worth. I could see United being sold at 7b-8b easily at that point

Guess what? They didn't simply because they were incompetent. Guess who is incompetent in football as well? INEOS. A club like NICE who happens to play in the football nursery of Europe should have the finest youth academy in France. That's were the smart money is as these players would improve Nice without breaking the bank (INEOS doesn't dare competing with Qatar yet somehow they can go toe to toe with two nations/nation states that are richer then Qatar aka Saudi and Abu Dhabi ). Kids can also be loaned to Lausanne which would give them a competitive advantage as they could get first team experience earlier then those stuck in a one club model. Nice decided to bring Pepe, Schneiderlin, Ramsay, Schmeichel and Barkley instead.
 
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WalkerTheRed said:
So, if anyone cares about the OGC Nice's real league finishing positions.

21/22 - 5th and in the cup final
20/21 - 9th
19/20 - 6th (first seasons of Ineos ownership)

Their average league position over the last 20 seasons have been about 10th. They've only made top 3 twice and top 4 four times.

The club was on the brink of liquidation when Ineos bought them.

last time they won anything of note, was when they won the cup in 96/97

make of it what you want.
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Why 20 years? How relevant is that? We dont know yet waht 20 years with INEOS will be… But we know about their first 4 years.

Between 15/16 and 18/19 (the 4 seasons prior to INEOS) Nice averaged 62,7 pts per season. That‘s 1,65 pts per game…

From 19/20 until now ( the 4 seasons with INEOS) Nice has an average of 54 pts per season, or 1,42 ppg…
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Do you think that Ineos/Jassim made some deadline to Glazers? Because they also know how important is summer transfer window.

Lets be realistic; it is not the same to buy a club in May or in July.
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Yeah. But to be completely honest. I don't care if Qatar manages to buy United _after_ the transfer window this summer as long as _they do it_. There is going to take years anyway to be able to compete for the PL. One window is not the end of the world. If we can stay in top 5 until the january window next season we hoppefully can get some players so we can finish top 4 and get a CL spot. Then the fun can begin. Sure, Liverpool have had a shitty season but we could finish in third place this season if get some lost momentum back.
 
JPRouve said:
There is a big difference between Boehly and Ineos/Ratcliffe. Boehly's job is asset management, Clearlake Capital and likes of Elliott specializes in that. INEOS isn't a private equity firm, Ratcliffe isn't in that business so even if it was his plan he is essentially leaping in the dark.
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Fair enough. Then the other thing Sir Jim has is it is his vanity purchase. All of us dream of owning United one day. For him it looks a reality. If I could do the same (be it with debt) then I'd do it. A dream come true.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Fair enough. Then the other thing Sir Jim has is it is his vanity purchase. All of us dream of owning United one day. For him it looks a reality. If I could do the same (be it with debt) then I'd do it. A dream come true.
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That's my guess, he is old, he has more money than he can spend and decided that he wanted to "waste" it on his local Football club. I see it as some old school patronage which is perfectly fine for me.
 
JPRouve said:
That's my guess, he is old, he has more money than he can spend and decided that he wanted to "waste" it on his local Football club. I see it as some old school patronage which is perfectly fine for me.
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Its not really a case of blowing his own money before he dies if the purchase is financed via long term wall street debt
 
Re: Sheik Jassim. Court is in session:

For SJ thread:


Those points disputed:


Interesting reads!
 
Tiber said:
Its not really a case of blowing his own money before he dies if the purchase is financed via long term wall street debt
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The point is that a young Ratcliffe doesn't make that spending and doesn't add that kind of debt to INEOS. The reason he isn't using cash is because he doesn't have the cash, his wealth is tied to owning INEOS shares and he isn't going to sell those shares in order to create cash today.
 
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