Yes, do you?
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Far from. Over a hedge fund the Qatar bid is a far better option. Over the Glazers keeping full control, Qatar it is.
Yep. And it's not just one side setting out their ideal fantasy outcome and waiting for someone else simply to agree, whatever those terms are. Which is what you seem to be saying by this:
That statement is correct. Somebody has to make them an offer that they deem acceptable. It's their club, they have the power to decide. Obviously...
Exactly but that's why any sort of leachy deal should set alarm bells off.
No one spending that amount on a football club should want the old owners clinging on retaining any influence whatsoever. No owners should be happy ceding ownership of a club they dont want to sell but clinging on somehow.
So if it happens that means they're both getting something out of it that's solely in their interests not in the club's.
I am not surprised by this latest development. I did initially think (some weeks ago) the Ratcliffe would join with Elliot or one of the other hedge funds to take on Jassim's bid. It was even mooted that Ratcliffe/ Ineos was prepared to be flexible with other groups.
Does this now make him favourite? The United Muppetiers think so, but as he said, it is now in Qatar's court to come up with something that no one can refuse. Will they surprise everyone and change their stance to having Glazer shareholders.
We do not know? Something will surely come out tomorrow as they are now again the last party to declare it's hand. Jacobs and Keegan seem to hint that there will be more revalations to this yet. But it seems that all the journalists on this do agree that decision will be imminent.
Also, what of the Raine group. If Jassim's offer is significantly improved, what will they recommend to the Glazers?
Does this now make him favourite? The United Muppetiers think so, but as he said, it is now in Qatar's court to come up with something that no one can refuse. Will they surprise everyone and change their stance to having Glazer shareholders.
We do not know? Something will surely come out tomorrow as they are now again the last party to declare it's hand. Jacobs and Keegan seem to hint that there will be more revalations to this yet. But it seems that all the journalists on this do agree that decision will be imminent.
Also, what of the Raine group. If Jassim's offer is significantly improved, what will they recommend to the Glazers?
Precisely. They absolutely will not hand over total control. It's simply not in their interest.
Good question. I was thinking more along the lines of buying out 4 Glazers and then just over half of the non Glazers would take you over the 67% mark and allow you to then make an offer for the remaining shares.
Would the structure of the shares matter at that point or would the overall percentage held be the defining factor. Honestly don't know.
But that's not what you said: 'He also has to agree to the demands of the Glazers to first buy the club whatever they may be.'
He doesn't have to agree to whatever demands the Glazers make. A negotiation involves give and take on both sides. Again, what in your opinion would be in it for Ratcliffe to spend 6 billion on the club only to leave its old owners with significant decision making power?
I mean, yes he does or there is no deal is there
No takeoever the Glazers agree to would be in the club's interests, else why would they agree to it? That's why we should be hoping the Glazers stay.
No, they have to mutually agree. So the glazers demand, the other party can push back, ceding some ground but demanding some in return. Eventually a compromise is reached that's acceptable to all. It's not a case of Glazers set terms, buyers agree, deal done.I mean, yes he does or there is no deal is there
Also, you didn't answer my question: what in your opinion would be in it for Ratcliffe to spend 6 billion on the club only to leave its old owners with significant decision making power?
GLAZERS IN!!
Is he keeping them around or nah? He is propping up the Glazers to enable himself to take over the club. Its the only choice he's got.
Glazers + SJR = 2 failures in one seat = More failures and circus.
I would hate to see that.
Who said they would have significant power?
As each Glazer is a separate shareholder I don't think Avram and Joel can make to many demands when push comes to shove. They'd basically have to accept it if the other 4 agree to sell their shares.
Ratcliffe at that point still couldn't force them out in the short term of course, but he would have enough to be in control.
They hate losing anything especially a bid like this where they have been so public. Expect a £6bn bid by Friday and they have the NFL sweetener still up their sleeve. It’s not quite done yet !
I don't think that's something the Glazers have any say in.
To be frank,all his proposals and PR management has been shit.
It's a huge red flag.
Ok, so what level of power do YOU think they'd retain?
I don't think the market is expecting Jassim to raise his bid in response to this, or else we would've seen some positive movement in the stock price today.
Some. They are greedy leeches.
They'd have no power effectively. If Ratcliffe buys out the other 4, he would have 67.52% of the voting rights, a significant majority and be in full control of the club.
He would still need to acquire more shares in order to buy the club in full, but as far as who runs the club, makes the decisions and is in effect, the owner of Manchester United, just buying out the other 4 Glazers would be enough.
You'd probably expect Darcie to sell her A shares as well, which would slightly bump up the overall percentage he'd own but he'd still have to convince either the two Glazers, or some of the non Glazer shareholders to sell at some point.
But, the most important thing is, they would not have any control.
Birds of a feather stick together. Jim Ratcliffe is another phase of debt and squeeze the life out of the club. No plan for the academy, nor anything about infrastructure development.. And for me it's a plain NO. No more Glazers rats nor Ratcliffe Rats running our club - get them out.
This is the biggest sticking point. In practice, the two Glazers would be better handing over control to anyone with sufficient Operational skills and ambition so that they can make money off remaining shares for no work, but there's been very little to suggest any degree of self-awareness as to the mistakes they've committed or allowed to happen under their watch, whether through greed or incompetence (there's probably about 10% impact that none of the other siblings seem to have had even any cursory interest in football/united, which has hypothetically made it harder to inject collective funding from their own pockets for the sake of longer-term high growth, but that's still pretty marginal). Whilst they're greedy, this is the 'wildcard' and the most dangerous component - i.e. The Dunning-Kruger of it all - when it comes to the sale.
I'm not that sold on SJR except by comparison with them, but hopefully Raine's counsel, along with the inordinate dip in the share price whenever there's a murmur of their staying in control, might at leads persuade them that relinquishing control is in their ( cold hard monetary) interests if they're so sold on the notion that club-by-club broadcasting rights and other potential sources of revenue, along with a competent manager, are going to skyrocket the club's value in the next few years and Qataris other enticements, whatever those might be, aren't enough to swing it...
Jim's got word that he isn't preferred and the Qatari's are in the driver's seat. Jim's team leaked this out to make it look like he's given his all to try and get the club with one last glorious hurrah before it's over. All nonsense. Not worried at all.
I've also made all that up.
I've also made all that up.
This is a pointless discussion at this stage. You seem unwilling or unable to entertain anything other than the Glazers retaining influence in the club, but you won't say how much and you won't say why anyone spending that sort of money on the club would allow former owners to retain a level of power that you seem to imply is significant enough to be noteworthy.
Always knew he was snake. Just from his previous business style. He’ll say anything and do anything to get what he wants. What he says usually doesn’t match what he does.
As keen as I am to put the Manchester back in United and would love for them to have been seen off I still think it seems more likely we're gonna be Qatar's shiny new toy.
How would I possibly be able to comment on specifics?
I'm giving my opinion. Right or wrong, who cares.
Literally before this everyone was “full sale, Glazers out” now because it’s
people are suddenly “well it’s not too bad, it’s actually clever”The issue here though is that if two of them refuse to sell, as seems to be the case, then Qatar can't really buy the club outright. So what do they do then?
Fair enough, that's a valid point. Tbf, I'm guessing too. Sorry, I was being cranky!
I don't think anything has changed.
Most people, myself included, still prefer a full sale.
What people are saying is that a scenario where the Glazers maintain a partial equity stake and no control in the club - although not the preferred scenario - would be better than the Glazers staying in charge and partnering with a PE fund like Carlyle or Ares.
I just find it most likely that this is negotiation and these two are in fact quite happy to sell but are more confident than their siblings that there's a bit more room for improvement on the Qatari end.
Literally before this everyone was “full sale, Glazers out” now because it’s
Full sale remains the preferred option for every single one of us. Not one person is claiming this alleged offer by Ratcliffe is the best option but that it's potentially a smart play by Ratcliffe given the reluctance of two Glazer shareholders.
Could well be.
No worries. I appreciate that it's an emotive topic.
Forgive me for being extremely skeptical about the Glazers and their intentions. I just don't believe they would agree to something if it wasn't fully in their interest.
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